Episode 645 – Differing Sales Studies, Saab Will Resume Production, EPA’s Dyno Lab

May 18th, 2011 at 11:40am

Runtime 9:17

A couple of new studies just released differ on how much the auto industry will recover in the U.S. One says sales will rebound to pre-recession levels of 16 million units by 2013, the other predicts sales will be 14.5 million in 2013. And speaking of car sales, a new report says Japanese automakers could lose 193,000 sales in the American market this year. Saab is aiming to restart production next week at its plant in Sweden. All that and more, plus a look at how the EPA tests and certifies engines.

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This is Autoline Daily for Wednesday, the 18th of May, 2011. Here’s the latest and greatest news from the global auto beat.

EV TAX-CREDIT CHANGE
The Obama Administration would like to see EV buyers receive the $7,500 tax credit at the dealership. Currently, consumers can only get the credit when they file their taxes. While on a tour of Nissan’s battery plant in Tennessee, Ray LaHood, the head of the Transportation Department, says he expects the proposal will be part of any tax bill passed over the next year and half. But dealers aren’t thrilled about the idea. They say it could complicate the sales process and that it could be difficult for them to determine if buyers qualify for the credit.

CAR SALES WILL RECOVER . . . MAYBE
Car sales in the U.S. are finally picking back up but a couple of new studies just released differ on how much the industry will recover. According to a report from A.T. Kearney, by 2013, car sales will rebound to pre-recession levels of 16 million units. They say consumers will replace cars they hung on to during the economic downturn and that lenders will be more willing to make high-risk loans. But an analyst at Citi Investment Research says that car sales will only hit 14.5 million units by 2013. He says Americans are scrapping old vehicles faster than they’re buying new ones. And that more households plan on having fewer vehicles over the next two years rather than buying a new one.

JAPAN CARMAKERS WILL LOSE SALES IN U.S.
And speaking of car sales in the U.S., Japanese automakers will be hit hard because of production disruptions in Japan. According to Bloomberg, A.T. Kearney says Japanese automakers could lose 193,000 sales in the American market this year. But it’s not only the Japanese automakers; the Detroit automakers may have about 3,000 sales up for grabs because of supply shortages from Japan. But the report says GM, Ford and Chrysler, along with Hyundai, will be the biggest beneficiaries of Japan’s problems.

SAAB WILL RESUME PRODUCTION
Victor Muller’s always been a dreamer . . . spent his life runnin’ ‘round. Now, he’s taking it to the limit . . . one more time. Well, that’s what The Eagles might say about Saab. According to The Detroit News, after a $91 million cash infusion from Pangda, Saab is aiming to restart production next week at its plant in Trollhaettan, Sweden. It’s critically important the company start building vehicles again. It needs cars to sell in order to stabilize its precarious cash situation . . . and by precarious I mean broken. But all of this could change since Saab still hasn’t negotiated with the suppliers it owes money. It’s in debt more than $47 million to Swedish suppliers and at least as much to foreign ones. We shall see.

TOYOTA BACK TO NORMAL IN EUROPE SOON
In a related story, The Detroit News also reports Toyota expects its European production to return to normal next month, so things in the industry are getting better.

SMART ED GAUGES
You all know how I feel about the smart car. It’s not exactly my favorite vehicle on the road today, but the Electric Drive model is a little more tolerable than the standard version. One interesting feature on the smart ED are the gauges that monitor the vehicle range and electrical consumption. They’re totally different from what other manufacturers are doing today.

Another interesting tidbit about the smart ED is its acceleration. Edmunds Insideline just track-tested one. Are you ready for the numbers? Zero to 60 took 22.4 seconds! I knew it was molasses slow, but not THAT slow! In fact it took 22 seconds for it to complete the quarter mile . . . and it didn’t even hit 60 miles an hour, topping out at 59.5 MPH!

GAS-STATION GLITCH
Jackpot! Motorists in Wilmington, California, a neighborhood of Los Angeles, just struck it rich. According to Autoblog, a Valero gas station in the town was selling fuel for just $1.10 a gallon! Predictably, people were lining up around the block to take advantage of the bargain . . . but this wasn’t a promotional price . . . it was the result of a computer error! When the owner of the station found out he shut everything down. The glitch cost him an estimated $21,000!

Coming up after the break, we take you inside the EPA’s dynamometer lab to find out how it tests and certifies engines.

EPA’S ENGINE CERTIFICATION PROCESS
My guest on the latest episode of Autoline Detroit is Chris Grundler, Deputy Director, OTAQ, EPA. He gave me an inside tour of the agency’s National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Here he shows me how they test and certify engines that go in vehicles sold in the U.S.

Who knew it took that long to test and certify engines. For more on the EPA check out the latest episode of Autoline Detroit, show number 1520, on our website . . . you guessed it, AutolineDetroit.tv.

Well, that’s all I’ve got for today. Thanks for watching and we’ll see you tomorrow.

Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog and WardsAuto.com

71 Comments to “Episode 645 – Differing Sales Studies, Saab Will Resume Production, EPA’s Dyno Lab”

  1. HtG Says:

    John, how about teasing some of Bob Lutz’ book? Between that and the Senna movie, I’m one nervous nerd.

  2. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG

    Let me know if you see the Senna movie in DVD before I do .

    SAAB ;

    This is almost getting too painful to even read . I can only imagine what it must feel like from the inside . Uggh !

    Car Sales ;

    Is anyone taking into account the 2.7 million homes on the block to be repossessed by September 2011 ? I’m sure that will have a massive affect on car sales , both due to lost jobs , ruined credit and lack of funds to purchase .

    E/V TAX Credit ;

    Sorry Obama but I do not wish to contribute to someone else’s automotive purchase via my hard earned Tax Dollars . If that money goes anywhere , it goes towards my car purchase .

    Non E/V or NOT !

  3. HtG Says:

    if you get woozy thinking about SAAB, you def. don’t want to think to closely about bad mortgages. Do you know what Chain of Possession means, tj? That’s what makes a person go fetal. Oop, there, I’m feeling it right now.

  4. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG

    And people wonder why our FA and CPA said ” You’re out so stay out and hold on to your money ” ( of the real estate market ) and why we’re listening .

    Are you familiar with the acronym OWMNB ? Its in all the business text books now and we’re ( wife and I are OWMNB ) the bain of the Real Estate , Mortgage as well as the Economic recovery .

    Out With Money Not Buying

    (eg Why buy a $300K house today for $250K when it’ll be worth $175K in another 12 months ? We won’t !! )

  5. Phoenix Mark Says:

    I heard on NPR that the station owner has asked people who got the $1.10 per gallon gas, come in and pay him the difference.

    Car sales at 14.5 million units by 2013, what a slow recovery. But wait we are not in a recession any more… yeah right.

  6. Phoenix Mark Says:

    @tj,

    The problem is the house was never real worth $300k.

  7. Phoenix Mark Says:

    I heard that people are paying over MSRP for a new Prius, not smart….

  8. tj Martin Says:

    @ Phoenix Mark

    #6 Absolutely . The house we’d bought when in Denver for $145K then sold for $260K three years later ? We loved that house with a passion , but there’s no way in Hades we’d pay $260K for it .

    MSRP for any car is ” Not Smart “

  9. shan Says:

    @Phoenix If gas prices keep going up, then these folks are geniuses, but if not, then they are your typical “impulse” shoppers.

  10. HtG Says:

    this is an auto industry site, but the problem with houses isn’t the prices, it’s that the banks did not observe NY state law when they securitized the mortgages. They missed the window to transfer title. They don’t have standing to foreclose. Also, the banks kept the second mortgages on their own books, so if they write down the first, there goes the value of the second, which is being carried at full value on their own books thanks to regulatory forebearance. Fetal now? Know what FUBAR means? Oop, there, I need to lie down.

  11. Chuck Grenci Says:

    Agreeing that the SAAR projection of 14.5 million, let alone 16 million sounds ‘pie in the sky’; borrowing a cliche from exPres. Bill Clinton, “…it’s the economy stupid”. While sales are getting healthier, there are still a whole lot of people trying to dig out.

  12. Chuck Grenci Says:

    And a question about Saab’s recovery; even if production resumes, are the buyers out there waiting to buy? My best guess is, maybe; (the vehicles in their mix before the shutdown were only okay from what I could see). You’ve got to have product (at the minimum) to stay in business.

  13. tj Martin Says:

    @ Chuck Grenci

    re; #12 This one isn’t ! (seriously I had intended to wait and have a look at the new 9-3 Estate when it came out had the company been purchased by someone who knew their heads from their posteriors when it came to business which Spyker does not )

    HINT HINT for all considering advice por moi ^ ^ ^

    @HtG – isn’t it bad enough you dump the Luca di Pukka video on me , now you’re gonna remind me of every reason why we’re not buying . Sheeesh ! :o )

  14. HtG Says:

    and if you rent, make sure the landlord isn’t going to go down with their own mortgage. Sorry, tj, I should keep the poison to myself. Shop and be happy everybody! There’s a sale at Exxon

  15. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG

    Thanks for nothing again !!! :o ) ( our landlord recently lost his job and we are looking again , not willing to wait for the inevitable )

    You really don’t like me do you !!! :o ) :o )

  16. tj Martin Says:

    Lets see .

    Quiet corner -Check

    Good Micro Brew -Check

    Bottle of Excedrin just in case – Check

    Pout Face – Check

  17. HtG Says:

    paying attention to cars and watching sport like the Giro now, is how I distract myself from the Clusterbunny.

  18. tj Martin Says:

    ……other than the fact that Contador is leading and there was one fatal accident , it has been a pretty good Giro this year .

    Oops !

    Sorry . Keep forgetting this is an Automotive Website . Blame it all on that HtG fellow :o )

    Hang on … let me see if there’s any auto news of interest …..

    Hmmn .

    MUGEN is supercharging the Honda CR-Z

    The Camaro’s V6 gets a power boost

    And Chrysler thinks they’ll bring in the sales with revamped interiors while leaving the unreliable mechanics untouched .

    Oh… and BMW thinks they’ll be able to Lease 700 E/V’s while well healed NYC Taxi Cab Drivers are using Lexus RX’s

    That is all .

    Sorry for the interruption .

  19. pedro fernandez Says:

    Tj since you want to “slow” down and take it easy, I have the perfect car for you: Smart EV; in the time it takes to get to 60, you can enjoy a nice cup of Joe with the missus

  20. tj Martin Says:

    HONDA ends its ALMS racing involvement , due in part to the economic realities of the recent Japan tragedy .

    Pedro joins forces with HtG to make Tj’s life miserable ( post 19)

    (now all I need to make the day complete is an appearance by the Cybil Quintet or the Psychotic Hummingbird . wonder if there’s enough Excedrin in this bottle to make it thru the day ? )

  21. pedro fernandez Says:

    Smokey says: Tj, get out of the 20th century, man. You gotta think 21st century and go for the Veloster or the Optima turbo, I guarantee either one will make you feel like you’re 21 again. And you can thank me later!!

  22. tj Martin Says:

    AAAHHHhhhhhhhhhh…………….

  23. tj Martin Says:

    Now back to Automotive/Fashion News

    Ralph Lauren has out up a fly over video of his wonderful car collection at the Paris Museum …………. with some of the tackiest and pathetic excuse for Jazz as a Soundtrack I’ve heard since the Elevator Music of the 70′s

    Come on there Ralphie boy . With all that $$$$$$ you couldn’t spend a couple a extra $$ to provide a Suitable Jazz Sound Trackto accompany that magnificent collection ?

  24. Psycho Hummer Says:

    YEAH old guys, you think you RULE the roads, but it’s us crankers that are looking far ahead. Korean, ingenius, victory. Counting down to collapse. suck it Tea Jay!

  25. pedro fernandez Says:

    Yep, you cheapskate, I just spent $85 on a bottle of H2O with C 2 H 5 OH and a little fragrance with your name on it, do you have any idea what the profit margin is on that rip-off perfume?

  26. HtG Says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=83WOsI_kkpg

    that’s a link to the Lauren collection show. Did you all see the Testarossa? Left hand driver? Lame.

    Peut etre tj, you don’t like zee le Jazz musique parce que one eez not so sophisticated? Oh attend, I haz a very important call from Rikers Island.

  27. tj Martin Says:

    Do yourselves a favor ( #25 ) and hit the mute button !

    Even the NYT says so !

  28. tj Martin Says:

    @HtG

    I loves zee musique de Jazz . Jest no zee Elevator Musique del Jazz . Est Le Pew ! Merde !

  29. HtG Says:

    But it reminds us of Monsieur Bobby Short. Tres jaunty, non?

  30. tj Martin Says:

    @pedro ;

    You think you got taken for a ride ? I’d be embarrassed to tell you what I paid for a bottle of Luca Di Montezemolo’s Eau De Toilet ( Aqua di Parma ) back when ……..

    Worse yet , you should see what the Ferrari Swag Store is charging for it now !

  31. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    16.5 Million in 2013? Shit.., you’ll be lucky to sell 2 million cars in 2013.

    In 2013 Americans will:

    A. Be consumed with Riot, Revolt, and chaos.
    B. Be too Broke to afford a car due to Hyperinflation.
    C. Be too scared to go to the dealership due to riots, gangs looking for resources.
    D. Barred from driving to go even look at a car in some places due to Martial Law.
    E. Find many local Dealerships closed for their own safety, and their workers safety.
    F. Find their beloved imports not available at the dealer because Hyperinflation will have cut their bottom lines to Negative- they will lose money every second the car is in the country.

    Only those who have amassed copious amounts of Gold, Diamonds, Platinum, Palladium, and Silver will be able to buy cars in 2013- if they are able to.

    America is in a lot of trouble, A LOT MORE TROUBLE THAN MANY OF YOU CAN EVEN BELIEVE.

    Many of you cry about Chinese products, BUT THOSE CHEAP CHINESE PRODUCTS ARE THE REASON WHY AMERICA HASNT BECOME A 3RD WORLD SHITHOLE YET.

    Ill Explain,

    During Nixon’s famous 1972 trip to China, Nixon made a deal with the Chinese in this manner- BUY OUR GOVERNMENT DEBT AND WE WILL ALLOW YOU TO MANUFACTURE EVERYTHING AND SHIP IT OVER HERE IN RETURN FOR PROFITS.

    - Because of the 60s unrest, the Government had to maintain their massive entitlement programs to passify the people despite ramping up an unconstitutional police state that seeks to impoverish people, which should have prompted any otherwise reasonable peoples overthrow their government.
    - Plus, the government had a emassed a massive war debt from the Vietnam war, and were planning for more international escapades to meet the needs of the World Agenda (America is the world’s corporate Army- but China is about to take that role and replace us soon).

    So therefore, cheap Chinese (Korean and Japanese in the past) goods help finance American wars and American standard of living and safety. Hyperinflation will destroy this gravy train, and Americans will not have the tax revenues available in terms of retail sales to even plug up potholes, or provide school books- much less the other things.

    Many of you cry about Middle eastern oil, but Middle eastern Nations have been also propping us up because we buy oil from them, and THEY BUY OUR SHITTY TRESURIES, AND ASSET BACKED SECURITIES- to fight wars and pay for America’s high standard of living.

    The less demand for oil, the less tax revenues for us, and the less the Arabs will buy our treasuries and securties.

    Saudi Arabia will fall, and this will disrupt oil production big time. Hyperinflation+ no oil from Saudi= $10 Gas.

    Like I said before, the world agenda has bought and sold our leaders to treachery. Reps, Dems, Tea Party, Libertarians= they are all bought and paid for.

    Expect to lose a lot of freedoms you take for granted, because instead of government checks, programs, etc.. the people will be passified by the barrel of the gun.

    Hey, you guys hate “entitlements” so what else the people are going to do besides starve.

  32. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG

    Mei no mon ami . #28 Eet reminds me of how do you say … zee merde ze use for zee cheeep Television commercial por le 60′s

    Aqua Velva ? Or perhaps zee Bryl Cream . Le pew !

  33. HtG Says:

    The Simeone Collection has mostly unrestored GT cars. Dr Simeone tries to keep his racers in a condition that shows their racing past. The restored models look a little funny, like the Alfa that looks to have been painted in Ragu.

  34. tj Martin Says:

    Oh no mon amis . Eet is Zee Psychotic Hummingbird een zee person . Weeeth perhaps even more of heees merde zan zee usual .

    Mon due . What are wee to do mis amis ?

  35. HtG Says:

    Uh oh, where’s my lawn chair?

  36. HtG Says:

    I’m not going to read it. You read it.

  37. HtG Says:

    Pedro, would you deliver your precis?

  38. HtG Says:

    You know he’s typing out another one right now. I can just see the cheez dust everywhere.

  39. HtG Says:

    Come on Smokey, I gotta go.

  40. tj Martin Says:

    Aha we ignore heem . Mei wei . Zat is zee answer HtG

    I’m in agreement . Over restored racers are like overly made up women ( ohh might get in hot water for that one ) You’re never quite sure what’s underneath or what it/she will look like the next day !

    I dont know if he still has it but when i was a kid we used to go to Wilke Barre Penn to see a relative and when we went my dad would take me to Oscar Koveleski’s AutoWorld to buy a model of slot car with my money ( cut grass etc ) When I was about 12 we went and his CanAm McLaren was on the showroom floor . I was standing there with the model of it in hand , mouth wide opened and staring when …… none othe than Oscar himself came out . He ( with dads permission ) picked me up and sat me in the car . Then after he lifted me out he handed me a handful of PRDA stickers and patches .

    Now there’s a memory

  41. tj Martin Says:

    This is fun ! Post around him !

  42. HtG Says:

    Yep. Simeone tells stories about taking female friends for drives in the Poconos, and oops what do you know? This classic car has broken down!

    Simeone has a 300SL Gullwing which he does not drive, out of respect for his father, whose car it was. The collection was built over decades when derelict GT cars had little value. When you see an Alfa that won LeMans in the 30′s, with all its scars….Well, the museum is chocablock with history.

  43. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG

    If you’re still here . The Simeone Collection . Just looked at the website ( needed an H/S break )

    You aint just whistling Dixie my friend .

    Next jaunt back East this is a definite Must Go !

  44. HtG Says:

    39 yes you will be in hot water.

  45. tj Martin Says:

    You’ll never guess what we’ve got here in KC thats driven almost daily in good weather .

    Frank Lloyd Wright’s Cherokee Red Mercedes 300SL Gullwing

    I’ll tell you every time the owner is parked at the Plaza I make it a point to go over and drool for a bit

  46. tj Martin Says:

    Ahhh whats a bit of hot water anyway

  47. tj Martin Says:

    PRDA = Polish Racing Drivers Association

    For the uninitiated amongst us

  48. HtG Says:

    The site only shows a little ankle. He has a better collection of Alfas than Alfa. Aston Martin DBR1 driven by Clarke and Moss. Jaguar C and D. Testarossa. Jag SS. Two Ford GT40s. It is a jewel. The building itself was an engine factory for a domestic. Last year we got to see Vick Elford driving Simeone’s Porsche 917 Hippie Car, seen in the movie LeMans. Astonishing place.

  49. GPL Says:

    HS, oh good, you’re back.

    I’ve been wanting to ask you, based on your experiments, what synthetic drugs should one smoke to best counter the effects of fluoride brainwashing, and from what website(s) do you acquire it?

  50. Lex Says:

    John,

    Maybe Chancellor Merkel of Germany should buy up all the Smart EV’s she can get her hands on so that the German Population can reach her goal of having the 1 Million EV’s in her country.

  51. pedro fernandez Says:

    Precis: Hyundai-built subcompact sold as a Mitsubishi back in the 80′s. AKA Hyundai Excel. I almost bought one.

  52. HtG Says:

    lol, Pedro

  53. pedro fernandez Says:

    Checked online, there have been cars slower than the Smart EV, but the last one was a 1981 diesel model, I was under the impression that EV’s had at least decent 0 to 60 times, but this Stupid car seems to do everything badly.

  54. cwolf Says:

    OK tj, Here are my picks to spend YOUR money:
    For individual character and my fav.– the GLK
    For Ride and perhaps more area dealers/sevice–Infinity EX35,
    For comfort, safety and more ground clearance–XC60(3.2 l)
    For durability and toughness–FJ

  55. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Ok doubters, you’ll see.

    But when you come forcefully knocking on my door for food with a gun, you will be shot.

    Silly Truth Deniers.

  56. HtG Says:

    when that happens, HS, remember to double tap

  57. Bob in Atlanta Says:

    HyundaiSmoke: You sound like you live in Atlanta too. You also sound a bit jaded. Americans will be able to buy 20 million cars a year once they stop supporting the undocumented illegals and the rest of the world.

  58. Jim Says:

    The Smart overall gas or electric is just a pile of junk from europe that probalbly never even should have been shipped here. I would love to see the long version of the Senna move but I figure they will only have the short edited up movie in NA.

  59. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Nah, I used to be willfully ignorant for years.

    I used to be like you guys who knew the truth, but lived in denial, because it’s the easier way to do things and didn’t rock boats.

    You’re right, Americans will buy 20 Million cars a year, but after the coming depression. By 2018 America will be like never before. America will be humming and buzzing like China is today.

    We need a calculated catastrophe to establish a “New Order” so Gen Y (Neo- Boomers), Gen X and even the younger Baby Boomers born in the last half of the boom can grow to dominance.

    1. Younger Baby Boomers are still workers when they should be running the show.
    2. Gen X (Neo-Sandwich generation) has been held back enough. It’s time for them to thrive and make real money.
    3. Gen Y (Neo-Boomers) arent being given the proper chance to grow. Many 30 year old Gen Ys have jobs their 18-23 year old (younger Gen Y) brother who plays World of Warcraft all day should be doing.

    A Severe Currency Crisis would put those out on the street who have Much vested economic and social interest to keep the current outdated system going.

    If the average oblivious person were to take the blinders off, they would see the storm clouds gathering.

    Big protests are coming within 3 Weeks to 3 months. History will prove me right. Neo-Boomers are about to repeat Mommy and Daddy Paleo-Boomers summers of rage.

    We have a worker shortfall of 30 Million. We need 30 Million additional workers to make up for the Shortfall of Gen Xers who’s parents grew up in a time of widely acceptable bitrh control and mass abortion with an economy that encouraged such birth control.

    Where are we going to get them from?

    Immigrants.

    The Gen Ys have 80 Million which is even more than their Their Baby Boomer forerunners of 72 Million (More babies were born in the sub generational years of 1981-1986 than the previous sub generational record birth years of 1955-1960 simply put the Massive Baby Boomer Generation who were born between 55 and 60 had a Mini Baby making spurt).

    The Shortfall many pundits speak of actually comes from Gen X which is a very small Generation.

    Yeah, we need immigrants. Gen Y isnt having enough babies due to economic conditions, and immigrants will have babies on any imcome.

    We just have to Americanize them, that’s all.

  60. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    However, our future prosperity in “New America” will come in conflict with China that has 410 Million Gen Ys that are very hungry too.

    Our future boom will come with a price- constant Geo-political conflict with China with everybody always on the brink.

    youtube

    /watch?v=ICq6-qbqz9I&feature=related

    That’s what the Video games have been preparing us for.

  61. tj Martin Says:

    @ cwolf

    Your list and ours are the same . We’ve been considering the EX35 of late so ….

  62. tj Martin Says:

    The Psychotic Hummingbird is back for more .

    How very entertaining ….zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZ

    Ooops ! Dozed off for a minute . What was I saying ?

    Oh yes . So veryyyyyy……..zzzzzzZZZZZZZZ

  63. tj Martin Says:

    “…..My guns bigger than your gun …. my guns bigger than yours …m y guns bigger than your gun .. and I can shoot it better as well ”

    I’ve even got the box load of medals to prove it .

    Should I maybe introduce you to Uncle Ted ?

  64. C-tech Says:

    If the goal is to reduce the amount of fuel used in the U.S., then instead of issuing a $7500 credit for E/V’s, why not offer a $5000 credit for any car bought which exceeds 40 mpg on the city/hwy. EPA loop? This really will change the market for small cars (Cadillac ATS a go?) and with mores buyers committed to higher mileage vehiles wouldn’t our fuel use and pollution go down?

  65. pedro fernandez Says:

    Ctech I would add also, that it has to be built in the USA with mostly domestic parts, regardless of what manufacturer it is!

  66. j myers Says:

    as a retail car sales rep, I’m seeing many intances of two-for-one car deals, and very few first-time buyers among young people. this in regards to the car sales will recover article. let’s face it…the cost of a car is just one piece of the puzzle…insurance costs, fuel, parking and maintenance can all add up to a good chunk of change also.

  67. tj Martin Says:

    @ pedro

    There you go thinking and making good sense again .

    SHAME !

    If I’ve told you twice , I’ve told you a thousand times .

    Cognitive Thinking , Rational Thought and Common Sense are a Federal Offense . Punishable by Flogging with a Wet Noodle and Banishment from any and all Websites as well as being Ostracized by the World Community .

    Sheesh ! You’d think between my telling you this over and over again : as well as the Fine Example HyundaiSmoke has been giving you’d of learned by now .

    :o

  68. pedro fernandez Says:

    Duh! you expect too much from a Pedro, remember the words of Mr Canada??

  69. tj Martin Says:

    @pedro

    When I start believing the kind of garbage Mr Canada ( or H/S ) spews here is the point where which I give you full permission to either run me over with your Corolla , or push me off the boat on our planned excursion in shark infested waters .

    Think of it as an act of Mercy . Because if I’m that far gone .. it will be .

  70. pedro fernandez Says:

    Tj would you ever consider the Mitsu Endeavor??? it is just about the only decent car they sell and it has gotten good reviews and it has a $4k rebate to top it off.

  71. pedro fernandez Says:

    I wonder what happened to the E15 initiative? and if the tax by mile plan is dead or is it still a possibility?? and who in their right mind will buy a SAAB at this stage with one foot in the grave?? and couldn’t Arnold find a hotter mistress than the one he got?? is she illegal? if she got banged by the governator, does that make her a citizen automatically?? I need to get off Smokey’s pastime of choice!!