Episode 970 – Kia Pro_cee’d Revealed, China Still a Healthy Market, BMW’s Italian Flair
September 13th, 2012 at 12:00pm
Runtime: 8:46
Kia just revealed a new three-door hatchback called the Pro_cee’d before it debuts at the Paris Motor Show at the end of the month. Nissan’s CEO Carlos Ghosn says the sales growth in China is slower than expected but the market is still very healthy. BMW is working with Pininfarina and Bertone to design and assemble limited-edition vehicles. All that and more plus John responds to your questions and comments in “You Said It!”
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Hello and welcome to Autoline Daily, it’s September 13th, and here’s what’s happening on the global automotive industry.
ALL PRO_CEE’D BENEFIT KIA
Kia just revealed a new three-door hatchback called the Pro_cee’d before it debuts at the Paris Motor Show at the end of the month. It’s the third member of the cee’d family, which also includes a five-door hatch and a wagon. No other details were given for this sleek-looking hatchback but we will share them with you once they become available.
GHOSN: CHINA A HEALTHY MARKET
Nissan’s CEO, Carlos Ghosn says the sales growth in China is slower than expected but says the market is still very healthy. Even though the market has failed to meet expectations, Ghosn says he’s not worried about overcapacity because he doesn’t think that China will be hit by a recession.
STOP TO START THE SAVINGS
Ford surveyed American drivers and found that seven out of every 10 are changing their driving habits to save fuel. 64 percent of them drive less, while 41 percent drive more slowly. A surprising 10 percent even draft larger vehicles! Now Ford is coming out with what it calls Auto Start-Stop that can improve fuel efficiency by up to 10 percent! That’s in the real world. On the EPA test cycle it cuts consumption by about 3.5 percent. Auto Start-Stop is a $295 option and debuts in North America on the 2013 Fusion. It should save the average driver around $15 a month. At that rate it pays for itself in just a year and a half. When equipped with the 1.6-liter EcoBoost engine and Auto Start-Stop the Fusion is projected to deliver 37 miles per gallon on the highway. I’ve been pretty critical of some of these stop-start systems, notably BMW, because they’re so harsh when they start. Ford wanted its system to be absolutely transparent, and has more than 25 patents for its system. We’ll let you know how well they did once we get a chance to test drive it.
GERMAN PRUDENCE, ITALIAN PANACHE (subscription required)
BMW is working with Pininfarina and Bertone to design and assemble limited-edition vehicles for MINI, Rolls-Royce and BMW. Bertone confirms it’s developing two MINIs that will be introduced in a few years. It’s also participating in a Rolls-Royce project. But Pininfarina has not confirmed it’s working with BMW.
THAT’S DONCKERWOLKE
In related news, Bentley has a new director of design. Luc Donckerwolke is taking the reins from Dirk van Braeckel who has gone to work with Walter de Silva at the mother ship, Volkswagen. Donckerwolke started his career at Audi back in 1992. Over the last two decades he’s worked all over the VW Group with stints at Lamborghini, SEAT and Skoda. Some designs to his credit include the Murcielago and Gallardo.
DROP-TOP FACE OFF
There’s a fascinating comparison in the October issue of Car And Driver between the BMW M6 convertible and the Camaro ZL1 convertible. Get this: the Camaro is 133 pounds lighter, has 20 more horsepower, 56 more foot pounds of torque, and has a lower center of gravity. But the BMW accelerates faster, out handles the Camaro, and gets better fuel economy. What gives? I thought the car with the better power to weight ratio would always win. Though Car And Driver doesn’t provide the answer, I think this shows that the torque curve and gearing play a critical role in any car’s performance. And sure enough the M6 develops peak torque at 1,500 rpm, while the Camaro hits the peak at 4,200.
Coming up next, it’s time for You Said it!
And now it’s time for some of your feedback.
G.A. Branigan saw our report on Peugeot’s new diesel hybrid car, and says, “FINALLY….a diesel electric hybrid.I can’t help but wonder why it took so damn long for an oem to come with something we have talked about on here for years.”
Remember, diesels are expensive and hybrids are expensive and when you put the two together you have a really expensive system. Now, if gasoline is expensive, like $8 a gallon like it is in much of Europe, then you can justify the expense of an expensive system like that.
Kit Gerhart has this feedback for Ford and its MyFord Touch system. “Ford has about the most distracting technology in the world. What they need to do is SIMPLIFY what they put in the dash, use some real buttons and knobs, like a tuning knob for the radio, and make the touch screen buttons LARGE so you can hit the right one, even if you encounter a small bump.”
He’s got a really good point about hitting the right button on a bumpy road.
XA351GT loved our report on Alex Zanardi getting a gold medal at the Para-Olympics. “Okay I want what Zanardi is smoking. That boy is high on life to the 10th power. I wish I could be that upbeat. He has a most positive spirit. I hope he gets that 500 ride and does great in it. I know he’ll enjoy it no matter what. You go Alex.”
You know, I’ve never met Zanardi, but in all the television interviews I ever saw of him, he always came across as just a great guy. I hope he gets into the Indy 500 as well.
John M. is puzzled about that guy who turned in a 1929 Ford truck to buy a new one. “The question is how much the individual who owned the ‘29 Model AA truck received on trade? It sure was a strange thing to do considering they surely would have been able to yield a FAR greater return if they had sold the historic ride by virtually any other means.”
Good question, what did that guy get on trade-in?
2Kriss2Kross laments what’s become of Mitsubishi. “Sad to see Mitsubishi fall so low. I remember when they were just as competitive as Honda and Toyota. I think Mitsubishi doesn’t invest enough into their products, advertising, and the North American market. I’m sure they fare off better in other parts of the world.”
You’re right, they are doing somewhat better elsewhere in the world, but listen to what you’re saying, they used to be just as competitive as Toyota and Honda.
HTG is kind of miffed about journalists who drive fancy cars on dream roads. “Who drives their car where the journalists roam free? I haven’t been invited to a soiree at the Corkscrew or to the coast of Spain. I drive in the suburbs and it blows 24/7.”
C’mon HTG, you know we all have to grab whatever chance we get, like those corkscrew on-ramps when there’s no traffic in front of you, or that set of esses out on a country road on an early Sunday morning. Even us journalists have to do that because the occasional drive at Laguna or in Espana isn’t enough to feed out habit.
Thanks for all your letters and comments, and keep ‘em coming!
And don’t forget to join me and the Autoextremist, Peter De Lorenzo, tonight for Autoline After Hours. We’ll have David Leone, the chief engineer for Cadillac joining us. If you want to know what kinds of products that Cadillac is working on to take on Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Lexus, make sure you catch that show.
And that wraps up today’s report, thanks for watching, please join us here again tomorrow.
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Comments (36)
September 13th, 2012 at 12:14 pm
The M6 vs Camaro is a no-brainer, the Beemer is a superior vehicle. Period.
September 13th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
Okay, I got curious, was a little miffed that the BMW took honors over the ZL1. So how could I feel better about the Camaro, oh yeah, look up the price; pretty much what I expected, the ZL1 was around 60 (big ones), the M6 114. I feel a little bit better now.
September 13th, 2012 at 12:20 pm
Then they should not compare Wendy’s burgers to filet mignon!!
September 13th, 2012 at 12:23 pm
#1
I would hope so pedro the BMW costs TWICE as much. Come on now, you have to be one of the most frugal guys on here and can’t recognize the bargain of the Chevy…
September 13th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
With regard to Mitsubishi, I’ve not heard anything here at Autoline (at least not that I can remember) about them ceasing production of the Eclipse, Eclipse Spyder, Galant & Endeavor at their Normal, IL plant back in mid-July and retooling to produce the new 2013 Outlander Sport with the intention to export HALF of all production.
That seems to me to be a savvy Japanese company addressing the issue of the value of the Yen while making a commitment to returning to their core competency of making high-value, small vehicles.
Also, when are you going to discuss the forthcoming Outlander PHEV? It sounds like an exciting competitor for the Chevy Volt, particularly if they can get their arms around the cost equation. Again, Mitsubishi is great at engineering.
Lastly, I’ve been reading some reviews of their little iMev (or whatever the heck it’s called) and urban reviewers who spent a full week with one generally found it to be useful, practical, and with legitimate value as primary transportation. I believe that if costs come down and gasoline prices stay where they are or go higher, there’ll be considerable takeup in urban areas.
September 13th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
These mags are so stupid, why put those 2 against each other, it’s like when they tested the Porsche against the FR-S, when you could buy 3 of the Scion for the price of one Porsche!
September 13th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
ZL1/M6. You’ve tee’d this one up for me, Lucy. Blame the Nannies for the faster BMW. I’ll bet better weight balance in the M6 let’s Silicon Sally allow more power to get to the rear wheels, sooner. She’s doing the driving these days. Again, 24/7
September 13th, 2012 at 12:51 pm
Not only is the M6 more costly, it also has more electronic controls you can shake a stick at. The Camero may not be as refined,but while the M6 is laid up in some sevice department,the Camero guy is out having fun.
September 13th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
They are two different kinds of vehicles. not fair to compare! Muscle car and luxury, high performance machine.
September 13th, 2012 at 1:06 pm
Assuming the hp ratings are accurate on the BMW and the Chevy, it seems that the BMW just had gearing that kept the engine nearer its power peak. Either that, or Bimmer controlled wheel spin better at low speed. I’ll find the article and see if the BMW’s better acceleration was 0-60 and 1/4 mile, where traction is a big factor, or high speed, where power/weight is the big thing.
September 13th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
ZL1/M6 – You’re right, its not a fair comparison. But you’re looking at German engineering. It doesn’t come cheap!
September 13th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
I don’t believe anything that comes out of car and driver. They are so bias for BMW it shows.
September 13th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
You made a good point, Pedro. The markets for the M6 and ZL1 aren’t exactly the same. But let me add another perspective in light of this. This comparison could be similar to pitting a lion against a great white. It’s not likely to ever happen, but it would be pretty wild to see. Likewise, these two cars may be aggressive competitors in different markets, but it’s still a lot of fun to watch them go at it! Sure less fun to read about, but fun just the same.
September 13th, 2012 at 2:14 pm
A point of clarification in case anyone is interested:
It’s “Bimmer” when you’re talking about a BMW car.
And “Beemer” when you’re talking about a BMW motorcycle.
Over and out.
PMD
September 13th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
Thank you Autoextremist, your knowledge is only surpassed by your intellect!
September 13th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
@ @14 That’s FrankenSTEIN, not Frankenstein!
September 13th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
@14 @15
“How many times have I told you not to disturb me when I’m WORKING!”
September 13th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
OK, PMD and CT-Tech. Now you’ve given me the giggles.
‘footshtepps, footshtepps, footshtepps’ is all I need to think about and that’s one perfectly good brain lost for the day
September 13th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
And what do you call a new BMW that has been in the service dept. one too many times? A “Bummer!”
September 13th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
# 17 But when you’re having so much fun, I don’t consider that “Work”
September 13th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
That is a good one cwolf!!
September 13th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
Nothing is like the low end torque of a long stroke engine , which has always been beamers main thing, but this olwrench sure didn’t like working on one.
September 13th, 2012 at 6:37 pm
#14,
I’ve had Beemers, but can’t afford Bimmers, unless a base MINI counts.
September 13th, 2012 at 7:15 pm
The Beemers I’ve had were of the old “air head” variety.
September 13th, 2012 at 7:33 pm
Kit, I read a C-Max review on Jalopnic this AM,but can no longer find it. In jest,the review was positive; Stating comfort,quietness,handling and mpg’s live up to Ford’s claims. On the hwy, up to 56 mpg was had by some. What caught my attention was their comments driving a Prius immediately after. All make note of how slow and noisy the car was. In these areas, what are your experiences? And from what you have read, what are the differences between the C-Max and Fusion Hyb.(47/47 mpg) discounting size,comfort and cargo area? Both are included in my short list,but I’d like to exclude one of them.
September 13th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
Most of what I’m hearing about the C-Max sounds to good to be true, Prius-like gas mileage in a faster car that is 5 inches taller than the very aerodynamic Prius. I am looking forward to checking out the C-Max. I hope it’s not too good, or it will cost me money, because I will want to trade my Prius on one.
As far as the Prius, to me, it is “fast enough.” It easily blends in with traffic at on-ramps, and has plenty of power for passing on the two lane roads I drive in Indiana. Look at it this way. It is quicker than all of the standard V-8′s in 60′s American cars. That is fast enough. Not too many years ago I had a VW 1.9 TDI, which was considerably slower than the Prius, but it was also quick enough.
As far as noise, the main thing I care about is how quiet a car is at highway speed, and the Prius seems about the same at 75 mph as the Malibu Maxx it replaced. Quieter is always better, but the Prius is quiet enough. On full throttle acceleration, you hear the engine, but I don’t spend much time doing that. If the C-Max is quieter at highway speed, I’d like that, but if it is quieter only during full throttle acceleration, I really wouldn’t care.
From what I’ve read, the C-Max and Fusion hybrid use the same power train, or very similar. If I were buying one of the two, it would probably be the C-Max, because I like hatches and wagons. If you don’t mind sedans, I suspect the Fusion would be nicer, but probably pricier.
Anyway, I’m really looking forward to tests of the C-Max, especially CR’s gas mileage tests, and anyone else who does serious fuel economy measurements, and doesn’t just drive a few miles and use the on-board mpg readout.
September 13th, 2012 at 8:20 pm
John Mc.,
We need a way to edit posts. I made an embarrassing “wrong word use” in the first line of my last post, and I can’t fix it.
September 13th, 2012 at 9:13 pm
All the hoopla about the C-Max reminds me of the car magazines infatuation with the 1980 GM X-cars before their introduction and how it was gonna be the second coming of Jesus and how it was gonna change the automotive landscape and blah blah blah, a lot of suckers, like myself, fell for it and lived to regret it and many swore off not only GM but all American cars for years to come
September 13th, 2012 at 9:15 pm
Kit: youtube has a few reviews on the C-Max including one comparing it to the Prius, you should check it out.
September 13th, 2012 at 9:51 pm
The C-Max should be our first chance to see how lithium batteries hold up in, what is likely to be a high volume hybrid. I suspect Toyota has stayed with NiMH batteries because they are a known quantity, and have proven very reliable. Maybe the lithiums have more efficient charge-discharge cycle, helping the C-Max get those impressive gas mileage numbers. Time will tell how they hold up.
September 13th, 2012 at 10:24 pm
#29,
I’ll do that.
September 14th, 2012 at 1:03 am
I find the extra $5K of the C-max energi,for a 20 mi. gain rather silly. Thanks to Uncle Sam’s $7500 rebate, the Energi equates to about the same price as the C-Max. Still, I’m not sure which of the two I would choose. But just knowing I’d be spending some of pedro’s tax $, the Energi seems to be looking a little more attractive!
September 14th, 2012 at 6:58 am
cwolf, buy a Prius, eat some sushi and call me in the morning!
September 14th, 2012 at 8:36 am
Yuk-Yuk,pedro san!
September 14th, 2012 at 8:58 am
That C-Max seems damned expensive to me for what you’re getting. I guess I’m just “old school” that way.
September 14th, 2012 at 11:09 am
If anyone wanted a link to the subject/question I posted for the AAH show with David Leone concerning Hennessey’s CTS-V and Bugatti, here:
http://jalopnik.com/5940718/heres-the-1226-hp-cadillac-thats-challenging-bugatti?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_facebook&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow