AD #1113 – Protean’s Hub Motor, Chrysler Management Changes, New Chairman at SEAT

April 16th, 2013 at 11:49am

Runtime: 8:15

Protean Electric reveals the production version of its electric hub motors. Chrysler announces major changes to account for the CEO of the Ram brand’s departure. Volkswagen shuffles the chairman deck at its troubled SEAT division. All that and more, plus we take a walk around the floor of the Autorama car show in Detroit.

Visit our sponsors to thank them for their support of Autoline Daily: BorgWarner, Bridgestone and Dow Automotive Systems

»Subscribe to Podcast | iTunes | Zune | RSS | Listen on Phone Stitcher | YouTube

Welcome to Autoline Daily, where we do our best to help you become some of the best informed people as to what’s going on in the auto industry.

Ford is going gangbusters in China. The company’s sales are up over 50 percent so far this year and now it’s outselling Toyota. But that’s not too surprising since Toyota’s sales have plunged due to consumer backlash against Japanese automakers. Even though Ford’s sales are exploding in China, last year its market share was only 2.5 percent, compared to over 15 percent for GM. But Ford is aiming to double its share by 2015 with the introduction of 15 models in that timeframe.

Sales of electric vehicles are nowhere near where the experts confidently predicted they would be. And this is a global problem. Volkswagen now says EVs need a breakthrough to bring down costs in order to appeal to the mass market. French supplier Valeo agrees. The company predicts EVs will only be 2 percent of the market by 2020, extended range EVs will be 1 percent, plug-in hybrids 4 percent, full hybrids 11 percent and mild hybrids will make up 8 percent of the market by the end of the decade. As I keep pointing out, that’s not enough for automakers to recoup the investment they’ve made in electric technology.

Maybe this next item is the kind of breakthrough EVs need. Protean Electric just announced the production version of its electric hub motors. The system, called Protean Drive, uses independently controlled in-wheel motors with an integrated inverter, control electronics and software. Protean claims it improves handling, and improves efficiency by removing external gearing, transmissions, driveshafts, axles and differentials. The package fits any conventional 18 to 24 inch wheel, which indicates it’s aimed at the truck market. Production starts in 2014 at the company’s new facility in China.

Right after we put yesterday’s show to bed, where we reported on Fred Diaz leaving the Ram brand to move to Nissan, Chrysler announced major changes to account for Fred’s departure. Reid Bigland, who had been running the Dodge brand, moves over to Ram. Tim Kuniskis, who was running the Fiat brand in North America, takes over at Dodge. Jason Stoicevich was named to run Fiat, and Bruno Cattori was named president of Chrysler of Mexico, which was another position that Fred Diaz had before moving to Nisssan.

Speaking of management changes, Volkswagen shuffled the deck at its troubled SEAT division. It moved James Muir out of there and slotted in Juergen Stackmann as Chairman of SEAT. Stackmann, 51 years old, spent most of his career at Ford. He joined VW in 2010 to head up sales at Skoda. Last year he was put in charge of marketing for the VW group and VW passenger cars. In the past, VW’s chairman Ferdinand Piech has warned that they would shut SEAT down if it did not become profitable. Clearly they’re not ready to give up on it just yet, but Herr Stackmann is going to be under enormous pressure. SEAT is based on Spain, most of its sales are in southern Europe, and the way things are going there now, he has a Herculean task on his hands.

A quick programming note here. Autoline After Hours will go live at 3:30 pm ET this Thursday. It’s just a one-time change to accommodate my schedule. But we want your questions for Rapid Fire. Our guest will be David Johnson from Achates Power. They’ve come up with a radically new engine design. You can find a lot of info about it on the web. So get those questions in early.

Check out this beautiful custom hot rod. It’s called Checkered Past, a 1940 Ford coupe that won this year’s Ridler award, the highest award you can win for a custom car. The award is handed out at the Autorama show in Detroit every year and we have more about that show coming up next. And it’s a lot of fun to look at.

(Autorama can only be viewed in the video version of today’s show.)

I love going to the Autorama, but last year there was a lot more participation by local artists in the rat rod category and a lot more dioramas built to display their cars. I don’t know if the Autorama folks tried to reduce their participation, but I wish they’d do more to bring younger people into the car scene.

Anyway, that wraps up today’s report. Thanks for watching, we’ll see you tomorrow.

Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog and

85 Comments to “AD #1113 – Protean’s Hub Motor, Chrysler Management Changes, New Chairman at SEAT”

  1. G.A.Branigan Says:

    Electric hub motors… much for unsprung weight.

  2. Roger T Says:

    John, I have to disagree with many, as I believe hybrids are going to take off at some point. What I think car companies are doing wrong is that they’re not focusing on products people really enjoy. Imagine for instance a Mustang Boss 302 with lightweight capacitor power storage, positioned on the back for weight distribution, just for a “push to pass” boost. Or picture a heavy duty diesel truck that uses little of its horsepower most of the time. On this example hybrid could save tons by running the big motor very little.
    I think we’ll see plenty successful hybrids & electric applications, it’s a matter of getting it right.

  3. David Sprowl Says:

    Makes me think that Protean hub motors and Eco motors engine as a generator driver could be a powerful range extending, fuel sipping, electric car.

  4. ColoradoKid Says:

    2013 Auto Sales

    And the winning segment is ;

    No surprise as I’ve been saying this since January . And where are the ( not so ) Big Three in this segment one might ask ? As per usual ….. the Trend is here …. GM , Ford and Chrysler/FIAT isn’t ……. but guaranteed at the point eh trend begins to wane all three’ll jump on board as if it was the hottest thing since pancakes … all proclaiming they were there first


    EV Breakthrough – Yeah VW’s right ….. but the breakthrough needed is for each and every Government Worldwide to give up on the things and quit forcing the manufactures to build a car ( EV ) that neither works … nor does anyone want them

    Now THAT …. would be an EV breakthrough ;-)

    ( I’m still reeling that Marchionne was actually honest about something when publicly declaring the ONLY reason FIAT was building an EV was to meet the demands of Governments . VW-Audi , Mercedes and BMW engineers have been relatively vocal about this if one’s paying attention …. but Marchionne’s been the first to be that bold faced about the deception being pulled on all of us by our respective EV Deluded governments ( because they’re heavily invested in the technology .. wink wink )


    G.A. – 1 – Isn’t it amazing that everyone completely ignores that critically important piece of engineering ?

  5. Duke Says:

    I agree Roger. All that the EV part of the industry needs is a major jump in the technology of storage – electrical storage, that is.

    Now that most major manufacturers have got their feet wet in producing power trains for more electrical power, if someone comes up with a real break-through in storage (battery), and greatly improves the charging efficiency, all of this moaning and groaning about EV’s would be history quickly.

    Hopefully that will happen before we get further into the fossil fuel energy source predicament – that is coming – whether we want it, or not.

  6. Bradley Says:

    #2 I agree.

    Issues like this are also adding noise to the problem.

    A friend of mine went to 4 different Ford dealerships before one would order a Hybrid Fusion for them.

    Two of them said flat out they didn’t want to order one. The third literally tried to talk bad about the car. A Ford salesperson talking bad about a Ford Fusion. WTF!

    Finally, the fourth dealership was located in a more liberal community accepted their order with open arms. Needless to say, the Prius is a very dominate car in this community.

  7. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The SEAT brand never made much sense for VW. Skoda was, and may still be different, in being a “traditionally Eastern” brand, and it also serves as a slightly down-market brand for VW. SEAT doesn’t seem to have much reason to exist, even in Spain.

  8. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ CK: Maybe it’s not so important to a small city-mobile? You know,they are still trying to dress up and put lipstick on a pig,or polishing a turd etc.

  9. ColoradoKid Says:


    Or conversely .. imagine an overly complicated Techno Weenie BOSS 302 with the technology you’ve described .. that like KERS in F1 ( which is what you’re describing ) doesn’t work worth a ___ …. breaks constantly …. presents an ever present hazard ( fire and electro shock ) to both the driver as well as any Tech/ First Responder/passerby – requires a ludicrous amount of maintenance just to keep it reasonably safe … adds a good 300-400 lbs to the car ….. and accomplishes absolutely ZERO … or haven’t you been paying attention to the realities of the LaFerrari travesty thats been foisted into the public eye ?

  10. jmann Says:

    Perhaps EVs are a metaphor for the times. People seem to have lost track of reality; they seem to think they can imagine anything they wish and that becomes legitimate reality. EVs never made any sense in terms of economics or basic physics. And, there was no plan – certain things have to preceed others . . . like charging stations. ETC. There is no magic.

  11. ColoradoKid Says:


    ” Two of them said flat out they didn’t want to order one. The third literally tried to talk bad about the car. A Ford salesperson talking bad about a Ford Fusion. WTF! ”

    Because those dealerships were trying to do your friend a favor despite himself …. thats WTF !

  12. ColoradoKid Says:


    + 1 x 1001 …. squared !!!!

    Could not of said it better myself !!!!!!

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Hybrids are at their best in stop and go driving, whether cars, delivery trucks, or garbage trucks. The ability to recover, and re-use power with regenerative braking makes a huge difference in urban driving mpg.

    As far as pure electrics, they can serve as an only car for a limited number of drivers, and their current price is too high for them to sell well, even for those who would find them to work well as commuter vehicles. Batteries need to get a lot cheaper to make pure electrics even close to price-competitive with conventional small cars.

  14. ColoradoKid Says:

    G.A. – #8 – If unsprung weight is critical on a Bicycle … and it is …. then City
    Car or not its equally or more important on an automobile

    Simple fact is Hype out rules Reality ( engineering or otherwise ) when it comes to the mighty government endorsed Myth of the EV

    ( apologies for the multiple posts this morning Ben )

  15. pedro fernandez Says:

    I’ve seen quite a few of the Infinity FX35 SUV which is very similar to the Pathfinder, only more luxury, let the folks with the big bucks show it off, baby! It’s true I’ve seen a large amount of new luxo SUV’s lately, had a client with a GLK today, loves it so much, she’s thinking of leaving the husband for it, except he makes the payments!

  16. Bradley Says:


    I think you are on to something except the physics part. DC motors are more efficient than the internal combustion engine.

    The idea of a Hybrid car handles energy similar to the human body. Most would consider the human body to be very efficient. Where energy is used and reused in various forms before it is exhausted. Internal combustion is a one shot pony.

  17. C-Tech Says:

    Unsprung weight is not as critical on a truck copared to a car. The Protean hub makes sense for a hybrid medium duty truck.

    EV’s do need a breakthrough, just as the “horseless carriage” needed a breakthrough at the start of the 20th century.

    Salespeople and dealers HATE ordering cars for customers. It gives them too much time to change their minds. With a hybrid shotage at Ford, there is nothing for a dealer to trade to another dealer to get for a customer.

  18. Rumblestrip Says:

    I think that the hub motors are a great idea for 1/2 ton trucks and larger. I have said for quite some time that full size pickups need to adopt the model of modern locomotives, a combination of diesel electric.

    Think about it, a small turbo diesel engine turning at low rpm to act as a generator for electric motors in the hubs. It would be SUPURB for towing, all that torque available from 0 miles an hour to get up to speed, or when climbing steep grades.

    Talk to people who do any towing with their pickups and these are to the areas they care about most. Next we need to see this move up to full size Class 8 rigs, the benefits to their owner/operators would be even more important to their P&L’s.

  19. G.A.Branigan Says:

    I won’t be an early adopter but a diesel electric 1/2 pu would be fine by me.My next truck will be a diesel though,1/2 ton or smaller.

  20. ColoradoKid Says:

    Bradley – 16 – And who pray tell fed you that little bit of myth/misinformation ? ( human body / hybrid analogy and that EV motors are in any way more efficient than an ICE )


    EV/Hybrid Hub motors in medium duty trucks ? Oh yes . Lets take the very vehicles people depend on for their daily bread and make them more complicated/less reliable so they’ll be unable to ply their trade on a consistent basis …. remembering a good portion of those folks are the very farmers providing the raw materials ( grains etc ) for YOUR daily bread .

    Again I say in tandem with jmann # 10

    There Is NO Free Lunch

  21. HtG Says:

    Thanks John, for the ratrod and custom car video. I needed a smile today. I’ll bet you noticed some of the proud owners gave their babies a run for their money in the looks department. Gold tooth, indeed.

  22. pedro fernandez Says:

    #10 or 40 mpg’s from their Hyundai vehicles?

  23. C-Tech Says:

    I miss the Autorama! Occassionally see some custom rods at the Winter Park Concours

  24. Bradley Says:

    ColoradoKid, not to argue with you, but any electric motor, especially DC, are more efficient than internal combustion. This is what I learned in school and google seems to support it too.

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Electric motors are much more efficient than ICE’s, near 90% for the type used in current EV’s and hybrids, vs 20 some % for ICE’s. As far as the entire “system” involved, including power plants, battery charge-discharge efficiency, it gets a lot more complicated.

  26. Bradley Says:

    Yes, the human body analogy is to point to the fact it uses energy in various forms and reuses it before its finally exhausted.

    Eventually, the most efficient man-made machines will have to exhibit the same methodology.

    However, at this stage in the game a large tank of gas and an internal combustion engine makes very good sense.

  27. Alex Carazan Says:

    EV’s are repeating their history for 2nd time…the very first vehicles were battery EV’s and they lost out to a high power density low cost long range fast refuel thing called gasoline! In late 70′s with fuel embargo that sparked high gas prices it happened again. In 2000′s with government controls on local USA drilling and refineries and continued Middle East dictator battles…the oil/gas prices spike and EV’s are all the rage again. Just another bandwagon of political correctness and government/elitist/liberal pet projects…not engineering or economics. Hybrid kinetic energy recovery instead of wasted heat on brakes makes logical sense and that is growing quickly. Chemical storage is low energy density….heavy……slow recharge…expensive…so result is losing value proposition for consumers. Engineers and leaders who get hung up on global warming and “clean” world using EV’s are naive about batteries and thinking they can FORCE consumers by laws. We are turning vehicles into light weight tin cans with compromises everywhere.

    Fuel cell hydrogen storage with maybe base fuel from ocean water using electrolysis powered by nuclear power plant may be economical and clean one day but fuel infrastructure will take decades.

    In the mean time we have found out that the USA has more oil than anyone expected….2nd largest reserves on the planet. The more we search the more oil we find. Peak oil was a scare myth just to help prop up green energy money that goes wasted and now just debt our kids must pay off as economic slaves. Now almost $17 trillion in debt! So let the pipelines, drills, pumps, and refineries come to life in USA and let the old days return with big strong V8′s, $1.50/gal gas, and still much cleaner exhaust. That would greatly help society and the auto industry. Yet no OEM or Supplier or Media Executives have the spine or courage to speak outside the politically correct or neutral mode…it is a travesty to critical thinking and the spirit of innovation and industrialization. Where are the leaders? Yes we can use oil…yes we can make it cheap…yes we can make it clean…no CO2 and global warming is NOT a real issue. Let EV batteries enter their tomb/shelf once again. If battery researchers in R&D labs find a breakthrough then bless them…until then keep it in the labs. May logic and common sense be reborn on earth! God help us!

  28. pedro fernandez Says:

    The Arabs can thank the envirowackos for all that Western money coming into their coffers.

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Whether in-hub motors would be good for road vehicles would depend on how much they would weigh. At some point, there is such a thing as too much unsprung weight, even for trucks.

    A locomotive-type diesel electric system could be made to work well for road vehicles, but it would never be efficient, at least for over-the-road trucks running at mostly steady speed. Even if the generator is 90% efficient, the motor is 90% efficient, and the control electronics are 95% efficient, the overall efficiency of the power train would be 77%, which is substantially lower than a simple gear power train. They use diesel electric for locomotives, partly, or maybe mostly because of the ease of control of a power train pulling hundreds of tons, compared to using, for example, a clutch and a 50 speed manual transmission that might be needed for a train. A truck with a maximum weight of 40 tons is much different.

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    27, Alex says:
    “no CO2 and global warming is NOT a real issue. ”

    The world’s real scientists on the topic would disagree with you.

  31. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ 27: Well said.I still want a diesel though…

  32. G.A.Branigan Says:

    The world’s real scientists can’t agree on it.

  33. Kit Gerhart Says:

    32, The vast majority of the world’s climatologists agree on it.

  34. RonE Says:

    The “Rat Rod Diorama” would make Ed “Big Daddy” Roth proud. RIP Big Daddy.

  35. C-Tech Says:

    @ #28 What???

  36. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ Kit: There is much controversy between both camps,and none are a majority.I happen to believe they are ‘chicken little’,'the sky is falling’ types.HOWEVER….a lot of good clean tech for our vehicles has come about because of it.

  37. HtG Says:


    I followed John’s link to the hub motors website, and found a video where the issue of unsprung mass is discussed.

    There are also white papers on the site in the technology menu, but I’ll have to check it later.

    Each corner of a car would have about 79lbs added, but it looks like Protean will also allow for big torque vectoring at each tire. And their value proposition to OEs is that the units can be fitted to existing fleets or cars on the line, saving money on the way to better mileage.

    (nope, I don’t work for Protean. I work for Skip Barber, remember? ;) )

  38. HtG Says:

    opp, that’s ~70lbs per corner

  39. HtG Says:

    oop, oop not opp :)

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    If you can add the motors to existing cars, it would make it easy to “hybridize” your VW Microbus, or whatever you might have, with the motors, and some batteries and electronics.

  41. HtG Says:

    40 Protean says that retrofitting existing vehicles, cars on the road, was a key intention of their product. That space inside the wheel is available, so OEs and fleet owners will conserve capital by saving on engineering.

  42. W L Simpson Says:

    David Sprowl Says:
    April 16th, 2013 at 12:08 pm
    Makes me think that Protean hub motors and Eco motors engine as a generator driver could be a powerful range extending, fuel sipping, electric car.——-This olwrench’s LONG held sentiments exactly.
    Protean has been on my fav list for a long time , & unsprung is definitely a factor to be considered.

  43. Alex Carazan Says:

    30. Kit…mob or majority rule does not decide TRUTH…most of the world’s leading scientists are political liberals with an environmental agenda…some even faked data to make warming appear worse than it has been…don’t forget ClimateGate Emails….we also have had no statistically relevant warming in past decade! Many of the sensors added in this century are in city areas where the concrete and buildings insulate and actually make the city warmer…which is real warming but NOT caused by CO2. So they recently switched their propaganda from Global Warming ….to Climate Change….so any climate event they will blame on man. It is all about control and getting government $$ from mass public for their purses….university grants…green jobs…green companies…etc.. Similar “scientests” said in the late 70′s that by the year 2000 we would run out of fossil fuels…they also still preach peak oil when is truth is we keep finding more and more. It is all a hoax about control and some ideal gypsy dream of a perfectly green planet…yet they ignore the pollution in communist China that is literally killing citizens with smog…out of political correctness. Go read from Scientests without a political agenda and learn the truth. Remember truth has nothing to do with scientists or politics. The TRUTH will set the auto industry FREE but the inudstry is full of politically correct cowards afraid to touch it with a 10 foot pole. Global warming is the 21st Century Hoax like flat earth was in the old days. CO2 is NOT a danger to humans and out climate…evironmental extremism is the real danger to us economically and politically. Imagine if we took all the $$ spent on global warming and put it to solve real issues like cancer!

  44. ColoradoKid Says:

    41 – But then … once again …. we’re banging right up against the whole ‘ unsprung weight ‘ issue …. not to mention the added weight of the system … along with the batteries etc needed to make it work … along with that raft of computer hardware needed to make it function /be compatible with the ICE …. and you’ve got yourself an over priced …. over complicated loser that in fact solves nothing other than putting a few ( a lot I’ll bet ) of YOUR dollars into Protean’s back pocket

    BTW the ratio of unsprung vs sprung weight as best I remember is ten to one . So …. in actuality …. if you were to install four of Protean’s little piles of dreck on to a given car that would be equal to adding some 3160 lbs to the overall functioning weight of the vehicle in question

    See why physics and engineering are so critical mien herr ?

  45. ColoradoKid Says:

    Climate Change – the Common Sense ( as well as NOAA etc ) perspective

    Is it real ? – Yes

    Has this happened before .. pre human existence ? – Many times

    Would it still be happening if we ceased to exist ? – Most definitely

    Are we the prime cause of Climate Change ? – More than likely not !

    Are we humans contributing to climate change ? – Most definitely but to what extent is unknown and is in fact impossible to determine

    Would any change we could make say over the next ten years short of giving up our present lifestyles entirely ( e.g. go back to the Stone Age way of life ) make any difference ? – More than likely Not one bit .

    Simply put the ‘ Green ‘ / Ecological movement ceased to BE a movement well over a decade ago … morphing/evolving into the Green/Ecological Business …. with like all Businesses … its sole motivation being spelled P-R-O-F-I-T … period !

    And don’t kid yourselves …. the naysayers have their money invested in Oil/Coal … the Fear Mongers have it all in Green/Ecological Business’s with neither one concerned one iota about the truth or especially yours or my well being ..

    Now pardon me while I enjoy our extended winter here in CO ….. ;-)

  46. HtG Says:

    CK, read the Lotus white paper ‘The Effect of Hub Motors on Vehicle Dynamics,’ at the Protean site.(5 pages) The test car didn’t get so messed up, and even had a high speed advantage over a standard car when it came to bumps. You gonna tell Lotus about engineering?

  47. ColoradoKid Says:

    HtG – When it comes to Lotus let me remind you who’s been at the helm over the last few years ( Bahar ) as well as the flood of misinformation regarding everything from Lotus’s finances right down to their supposed ( of late ) engineering ‘ break throughs ‘ and findings thats been coming out of Lotus Cars as well as Lotus Engineering … ( as well as a reminder Lotus F1 has bupkiss toto with either of the previous )

    That place a bit of perspective on Lotus’s feeble attempt to circumvent the fundamental Laws of Physics mien freund ?

  48. HtG Says:

    So yes, then.

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It’s not “mob or majority rule,” it’s actual climate scientists that say it is real, and at least partly because of human activity. Yes, there have been major swings before, but the melting of ice caps is happening much quicker than such changes have hapoened historically. You can believe what you want, but I’m not advising anyone under 60 or 70 to buy coastal property. It won’t be worth nearly as much when it becomes part of the ocean.

    All that said, I agree with CK that there is not much that we can do about it, especially given that China continues to build more coal fired power plants, and the the “third world” becomes more developed.

  50. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I have a MINI question for you. Did it seem that the gas tank in your MINI was substantially larger than the 13.2 US gallons the owner’s manual said? I just filled up, and it took 13.6 gallons, and it had only gone a few miles since the gauge went from two “bars” to one. I have put a little over 13 gallons in the tank a few times before. Did you see this, or might my gauge be off, with me being dangerously close to running out of gas?

  51. T. Bejma Says:


    Cadillac SRX included in the small Luxury Crossover category CK. Last time I looked, that is a GM vehicle, so again, your hate for all American car manufacturers has blinded you from the facts…

  52. pedro fernandez Says:

    #35 if the environmentalists would not block drilling here, we would not be needing so much foreign oil and if they had not blocked nuclear plants either, even less imported oil needed, thanks for your attention!

  53. pedro fernandez Says: can you tell me how to disable my DRL’s I hate the damn thing, this is a little bad habit Toyota picked up from GM from their NUMMI days.

  54. T. Bejma Says:


    Will wonders never cease? A post from CK that I 100% absolutely, positively believe and agree with. Write this date down (easy to remember anyway because my youngest daughter turned 10 today ;-) )

  55. T. Bejma Says:


    The question I always ask and can never get an answer for is:

    What caused the earth to warm up to change over from the first ice age?

    and the second?

    and the third?


  56. HtG Says:

    TB and CK agree! I can’t handle it. Everybody dance!

  57. C-Tech Says:

    @ #53 Pedro there should be a DRL relay in the fusebox underhood. Unplug the relay and no DRL. I will confirm later.

  58. C-Tech Says:

    @ #53 What year is the famed Corolla “Everlast” ?

  59. C-Tech Says:

    # @56 HtG there is hope for peace in the middle east.

  60. pedro fernandez Says:


  61. pedro fernandez Says:

    Let there be peace on Earth and let it begin with CK/TB! Perhaps then the Koreans will re-unite and Israel will befriend their Palestinian brothers and Pedro will visit Castro’s Cuba, Nah!!

  62. ColoradoKid Says:

    Is there an Automotive Smack Down in the making between our Pietro and Jalopnik’s Matt Hardigee ;

    My monies on Pietro if there is .. actually …
    that could prove quite entertaining as well as informative

    Rock On gentlemen …..


    T Bejma – Happy B-Day to the younin …. and it aint the first time there buckaroo …. just rare is all …

    But errrr … last time I looked the SRX was a POS and not selling worth a ____ anywhere …. just to maintain some semblance of normalcy mind you ;-)


    Kit – 50 – Come to think of it … no matter how much figuring I did I always did seem to underestimate how much gas would fit in the tank when I filled it up … can’t say I ever took enough notice to figure out why though …. but still ….. hmmmn … let me know what you come up with as now you’ve got me curious

  63. ColoradoKid Says:

    61 – Just to prove you correct mi amigo ;-)

  64. ColoradoKid Says:

    T Bejma – SRX – Need I remind you of the ‘ Ten Days in Hell ” subtitled ” Renting an SRX in the CO High Country ” story I placed here a couple of years ago ?

    ( seriously T .. we don’t want anyone here getting their hopes up now …. do we ? :o )

  65. C-Tech Says:

    @ #53 It should be in the fusebox underhood, right side. DRL relay. Please let me know if that is correct.

  66. HtG Says:

    62 wow. I hope Peter doesn’t take the bait, but I did wonder why he posted this piece on Queeg. I’ve been reading him long enough to surmise he’s hearing stuff from below decks. One punches up.

  67. pedro fernandez Says:

    So just pull it out? and the relay too? will the lights still work? will is affect me listening to Glenn Beck?

  68. pedro fernandez Says:

    I read in on youtube that it is illegal to disable DRL’s according to Fed law, do you know if this is so?

  69. C-Tech Says:

    If the dusty diagram is correct, removing the relay should only affect the DRL. Remove and try turning on the headlamps. If they come on, success, if not plug the relay back in.

  70. C-Tech Says:

    DRL’s are not required in the U.S. They are required in Canada. That is why some vehicles have them and some don’t.

  71. cwolf Says:

    CK Re #4
    Your effort to slight GM for this comment really has no bearing because the article pertains to the luxury segment which does not say where. Second, one could read the article as lux. SUV’s taking sales from themselves in the lux. car market, eh? There are three things worth consideration; First, GM global sales have topped VW for the qtr. Second, Chevy sales have increased for 10 consecutive qtrs, and third, GM sales have risen 26% and is rising month after month. Based upon your insinuation, I believe it more accurate to conclude luxury SUV sales have increased at the expense of not GM, but of all the other luxury makers other models. And let’s not forget Euro sales are falling faster than a meteor, so it would not take much to show an increase of SUV’s over their sedans… not to mension the Euro brands are pumping a good hunk of change abroad rather than into their oun ecomomy. Again, this article has no roots to support it.

  72. pedro fernandez Says:

    Thanks c-tech I will try tomorrow let you know.

  73. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Here’s a short, and maybe correct explanation of the ice ages.

    DRL stuff—
    GM and Toyota each have one car (that I know of) without DRL’s, Corvette, and Prius. I think maybe 2012 Prii have DRL’s that you can easily turn on or off, but my 2010 has none at all.

    In addition to GM and Toyota, VW seems to have DRL on most, or all cars sold in the U.S.

  74. Kit Gerhart Says:

    73 Ice age link:

  75. Kit Gerhart Says:

    When I filled up a couple days ago, I had gone 514 miles, pretty good range for a non-diesel. It took 13.6 gallons, dividing out to about 38 mpg, with the “optimistic” computer saying 40.5. I had gone a little longer than normal before filling up, letting the gauge get down to one bar. The thing that got my attention, is that I happened to be looking through the owner’s manual and noticed that the “official” capacity of the tank is 13.2 gallons, and I had just put 13.6 in, with the gauge still reading 1/10 of a tank.

    I emailed MINI, and, at first, got a non-answer telling me to contact my dealer. I called the dealer, asking to speak to someone in service, but got put on hold and never talked to anyone. Then, I emailed MINI again and told them about my experience with calling the dealer. Someone then called me, and said that, while the manual says the tank capacity is 13.2 gallons including 2 gallons “reserve,” it may mean 13.2 gallons PLUS 2 gallons reserve, or a 15.2 gallon tank. That would seem to make sense, but I don’t think I want to run the gas out much lower than that last tank to find out.

    For fun, I then called the dealer and asked to talk to someone in sales. I got connected to a salesman who seemed genuinely interested in cars, and said he had run into the same thing, and had customers mention it, that they were putting in more gas than the tank would “officially” hold, while still showing 1/10 tank or so on the gauge. Another explanation is that the tank holds 13.2 Imperial gallons, rather than US gallons.

  76. C-Tech Says:

    @ #75 Since an imperial gallon is about 20% more than a U.S. gallon, both the saleman and the plus 2 gallon reserve explanation makes sense. Things that make you go hmmmm…

  77. ColoradoKid Says:

    Kit – 75 – Fascinating – So what I thought was happening really was . Thanks for making the effort to follow up on that . But .. errrr … shame on your dealer and MINI USA . Sounds like customer ‘ service ‘ is becoming less of a priority as when I had had mine an email ( to MINI USA ) was answered within minutes and I never failed to get hold of a tech in ten minutes or less

  78. ColoradoKid Says:

    EU Auto Sales … the numbers

    ( spoiler alert … it gets a bit ugly )

    Everybody’s coming up short … so remind me once again WTH GM is keeping Opel …partnering with PSA as well as even trying to market GM US products over there ?

  79. ColoradoKid Says:

    cwolf – No the article is quite clear that Luxury compact SUV’s are out selling luxury compact sedans by a substantial margin Worldwide .. with my comment insinuating that GM , Ford and Chrysler have bupkiss to offer in the fastest growing luxury segment … they to a number once again as is their want being ” A day late and a dollar short ”

    Also lets put those numbers claims as to GM’s sales into context . GM is BARELY staying ahead of VW … not out selling them .. with VW making major ground to GM’s minimal sales increases and VW catching up fast .

  80. Kit Gerhart Says:

    In MINI USA’s defense on the email, I think I may have emailed “customer service,” instead of “technical questions,” or something like that, which may have been better.

    Still, it was disappointing to be put on hold “forever” by the dealer. They were prepared to set up a service appointment if I wanted one, but less prepared to let me talk to someone.

  81. Kit Gerhart Says:

    There is only one compact luxury SUV in the U.S. market, the Buick Encore. All of the others mentioned are mid-size or larger.

  82. G.A.Branigan Says:

    I think GM will have a (possible) winner with the upcoming mid size twin pickups……IF they offer a diesel option right away.Since toyota hasn’t seen fit to do any but minor updates on the taco since 05,gm could knock it out of the park and have the segment to themselves for a number of years,jmho.

  83. HtG Says:

    The Lincoln crossover concept is aimed right at the sweet spot. They can’t get it out fast enough.

  84. G.A.Branigan Says:

    GM shuts down an Opel plant:

  85. john897 Says:

    Here’s another story on GM’s forth coming small trucks.