AD #1140 – Tesla Pays Back Loan, Car Dealers Can’t Master Internet, Ford Out in Australia

May 23rd, 2013 at 11:39am

Runtime: 8:20

Tesla Motors announces its paid off its government loan, and ticks off another automaker in the process. A new study highlights how car dealers need to do a better job on the internet. After nine decades of making cars in country, Ford announces it will end production there. All that and more, plus the debut of Design Handbook with the encyclopedic automotive expert, Jim Hall.

Visit our sponsors to thank them for their support of Autoline Daily: BorgWarner, Bridgestone and Dow Automotive Systems

»Subscribe to Podcast | iTunes | Zune | RSS | Listen on Phone Stitcher | YouTube

Hello and welcome to another edition of Autoline Daily where we strive to provide the best insight into this otherwise inscrutable automotive industry. Coming up later in the show, we’ll have the premiere of Jim Hall’s Design Handbook. But now let’s get to the news.

ARE NOT! AM TOO!
Tesla Motors announced it paid off its government loan yesterday, with interest. Last week the company raised more than $1 billion in the stock market and used $452 million of that to repay the feds. However Tesla ticked off Chrysler because in its press release it claimed to be the first American car company to repay the government. Chrysler quickly blogged back, reminding Tesla it paid off its loan nearly two years ago. Tesla does have some wiggle room. It can claim to be the first electric car company to repay its loan.

SPARKY GOES ON SALE
Back in late April we got the lowdown on all the technical bits going into the Spark EV, when GM bragged it has the best electric vehicle efficiency available for retail. And now we know the price. “Only” $27,495, making it the cheapest EV available. There’s also a $199 a month low-mileage lease, which is the same as the Nissan LEAF and Fiat 500e. The Spark goes on sale next month in California and Oregon.

RELAY (TAKEN FOR A) RIDE
RelayRides, that car sharing program where you can rent out your car to other users, was shut down by the state of New York. RelayRides offers a million dollar insurance policy to anyone who enlists their car with the service, and a $300,000 policy for anyone who rents it. But the state of New York has not approved that insurance, so RelayRides is dropping out of New York. RelayRides teamed up with OnStar and claims that individuals can earn up to $1000 a month renting their cars out to other people.

LIKE ME, PLEASE LIKE ME
A new study highlights how car dealers need to do a better job on the internet. Digital Airstrike’s Spring 2013 Automotive Social Media and Reputation Trend Study shows that car buyers find online-reviews more helpful than a dealer’s site. And it says consumers trust social media the most when deciding which dealer to buy from. It suggests dealers should ask customers to post a recommendation if they had a good experience, advertise on Facebook, and also give discounts if a customer likes them on Facebook.

FORD TO LEAVE THE LAND OF OZ
Since 1928 Ford has been making cars in Australia. But that won’t last much longer. Ford Australia, which will cease manufacturing in 2016, faces costs double those in Europe and four times those of its Asian divisions. Automakers were doomed in the country after it opened its once-closed market to imports. After that, there was just not enough sales volume to support local manufacturing. Remember, the population of Australia is something like that of Michigan and Ohio combined.

TIME TO FRESHEN UP
Automakers are redesigning their cars far more frequently than they did thirty years ago. A report out of Britain by CAP Automotive notes that in the 1970’s and even into the 80’s, car designs were often left pretty much the same for up to 10 years. Now automakers don’t dare let them go three to four years without a significant refreshening. Two reasons for the quicker pace of change: fuel economy regulations, which are forcing more frequent technical updates, and computer aided design, which makes changes much easier to do.

Speaking of design, what does car design have to do with 17th century warships? Find out next in our premiere of Design Handbook hosted by Jim Hall!

Today we’re introducing a new segment called Design Handbook. It’s hosted by that encyclopedic automotive expert, Jim Hall. In each edition of Design Handbook, Jim will explore a new automotive design topic with insight into why cars look and function the way they do.

For today’s installment, please turn to the “Design Terms” section of your Handbook. Here’s Jim.

(Design Handbook with Jim Hall can only be viewed in the video version of today’s show.)

Stay tuned to Autoline Daily for additional lessons from the Design Handbook. But, before you go “tumblin’ home,” make sure to synchronize your watches for tonight’s live webcast of Autoline After Hours where we’ll have Mike Siegrist, the assistant chief engineer for the Chevy Cruze diesel. If you have any questions about the Cruze diesel tonight’s the night to ask them. So join me and the Autoextremisit, Peter De Lorenzo for some of the best insider information in the business.

But that wraps up today’s report. Thanks for watching we’ll see you tomorrow.

Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog and WardsAuto.com

77 Comments to “AD #1140 – Tesla Pays Back Loan, Car Dealers Can’t Master Internet, Ford Out in Australia”

  1. ColoradoKid Says:

    TESLA news – A little clarification is needed here . The fact is TESLA has only paid off ONE of its many government loans/subsidies etc … which in fact accounts for only a small percentage of what TESLA Automotive actually owes the American Tax Payer … and thats not even including what Musk owes us for SpaceX .. his pretentious Solar company etc

    If one were to review the TESLA news of the last 90 days … especially the comments Musk has made about lost sales .. lost deposits … lost revenue …. along with TESLA’s willy nilly attempts to constantly restructure their finance /lease programs etc in a desperate attempt to bring in sales ….. one would tend to dig a little deeper to find out what the REAL story on TESLA/Musk really is .Rather than trust the Spin & Hype TESLA has been releasing to the Press and the general public .

    IF !

  2. pedro fernandez Says:

    Good dealers use the internet properly, $hitty ones do not, I have had experiences where you go thru the internet, meet up with someone at the store and then just as quickly he throws you into the Roman Coliseum’s den to haggle and play the usual game, the price they gave you on the net is just BS to get you into the freaking place, one of them actually did it the right way, price online agreed, showed up signed and out of there.That was in 98 when I got my Crapolla

  3. HtG Says:

    2 Piling On, yes I can edition

    Tesla also gets a transfer payment from other carcos, because it’s an EV. That’s a subsidy in my book. A tax doesn’t go to the govt, but right to sunny California.

  4. HtG Says:

    3

    1, not 2

  5. Dan Clemons Says:

    Good job Jim. Why in the world would GM turn a bathtub upside down and call it a car?

    Designers need to know that we are into curves and bling!!

  6. Tony Gray Says:

    Loved the design handbook. It was a great explanation for an interesting subject. Looking forward to future installments.

  7. Chuck Grenci Says:

    Learned a lot from Jim Hall today; “I did not know that” as Johnny (Carson) used to say.

    p.s. Learned a lot from you too, John (as always); great job (both of you), thanks.

  8. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Auto makers are redesigning/freshening their cars more often than they did in the 80′s, and in most cases, the new ones are better, not just different.

    On the other hand, from the mid-50′s through the 60′s, they changed them EVERY YEAR, just to make them look different.

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    That’s American cars that changed every year during the 50′s and 60′s, not Volkswagen, or most other European cars.

  10. pedro fernandez Says:

    #8 Safer, more fuel efficient, YES! better? I am not so sure about that! Quality wise and durability I don’t think so!

  11. HtG Says:

    I find I get tired of some designs faster than others. Like Hyndai and Audi designs have different HtGlives.
    —–
    Here’s a link to a Reuters piece on Ally. I prolly shouldn’t say anything more at this point.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/23/us-rescap-ally-settlement-idUSBRE94M0Q920130523

  12. Todd T Says:

    I think Tesla’s passive-aggressive “dig” was that Chrysler isn’t American. Elon, is clever, but he should remember that slinging mud can cause one to lose ground.

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    10,
    By better, I meant fuel efficiency, safety, quietness, comfort, convenience, etc. Yeah, as far as durability, some of the earlier ones may be better.

  14. ColoradoKid Says:

    12 – The phrase/axiom …..

    ” People who live in glass houses ……. ”

    …….applies all to well to Mr Musk’s current barrage of braggadocio and schadenfreude

    No worries though . Once his political allies have been voted out …. Mr Musk’ll be getting his due …. in spades I might add ;-)

    ————————-

    Car Design – No matter how you cut it … slice it .. or dice it … 95% of new car designs are derivative at best …. boring and dull at worst …. continually diminish functionality ( blind spots etc ) while over emphasizing ‘ design ‘ …. and like the old Woody Guthrie song said ;

    ” … and they’re all made out of ticky tack .. and they all look the same “

  15. pedro fernandez Says:

    Honestly I think I would prefer a brand new 94 Camry over a 2013 model ditto for the Corolla, just knowing that they were better put together than the new ones would be enough to convince me. I mean for the price of a 94 Camry all I can get now is a Yaris, stripped.

  16. ColoradoKid Says:

    HtG -11

    Hmmmn . Ally Bank . At the forefront of all those Subprime Auto Loans …. while stealing from their competitors as well . Hmmmmn . Perhaps a new CountryWide/BoC in the making ?

  17. pedro fernandez Says:

    #14 hence, rear cameras, proximity warnings, lane departure, smart cruise blah blah blah, adding more to the vehicle cost and taking away part of the driving enjoyment.

  18. ColoradoKid Says:

    16 should of been BoA :(

  19. HtG Says:

    You wait, tumblehome will be outlawed because it’s shown to cause 45.6 extra deaths due to side impact for unseatbelted occupants. Personally, I’d outlaw it just for being so, so, sexxy.

  20. Drew Says:

    Jim hall, you missed the technoloogy change in the late 1960s that enabled increased tumblehome – cylindical side glass (in lieu of flat glass) and associated in-door glass-run mechanisms. The 1971 full-sized GM products took great advantage of it.

    In the late 1990s, VW evolved to spherical side glass on the Passat, but the longitudinal curvature was too subtle for most people to notice. GM faked the longitudinal curvature on their full-sized FWD vehicles (BOP) in the mid 1990s via a fixed posiiton “vent window”, but it compromised the location of the OSRV mirror.

  21. Jonathan Brown Says:

    Thank you very much for todays new format. I truly enjoyed the entire show including Jim Halls look inside automotive design.

    Great work John McElroy and Jim Hall.

    Jim truly is the man who knew too much..

    Thanks for sharing your automotive design insights. I look forward to future segments.

    PS…I dig the new C7 corvette coupe design! ;)

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Of course, one area where most of the new cars are worse, is the operator interfaces. My 2010 MINI is bad enough, and it doesn’t even have a touch screen.

    Something that is semi-new, and totally unnecessary, but I like, is the “smart key” my Prius has. I wouldn’t pay much extra for it, like the $650 it costs on a Benz, but it was standard on my base Prius, and I like it.

  23. HtG Says:

    21 will you pay a premium to get it first, Jonathan? You may not wish to tell the internet, though.

  24. pedro fernandez Says:

    Don’t get me wrong, I like power windows, locks, trunks, seats, voice recognition, cruise, smart keys but they all BREAK eventually just adding to the cost of a long relationship with your wheels. I knew someone who had 2 broken power windows and no money to fix them and then the power locks also went out. Right now my sis Journey electric hatch release is malfunctioning again, no bypass mechanism.

  25. Todd T Says:

    #14
    I was referring to the Confucius saying; one who slings mud loses ground. There’s also Confucius; one can’t sling mud with clean hands. Glass houses is a whole other axiom that implies hypocrisy (maybe your intent, but not mine).

    Won’t even comment on the political jab.

  26. pedro fernandez Says:

    Caddy recalling SRX’s for possible loose wheel nuts? Don’t dealers bother to check stuff like this anymore? absolute BS, I tell you!

  27. ColoradoKid Says:

    Bob Lutz & the Fisker debacle ;

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/05/lutz-and-chinese-offer-one-penny-on-the-dollar-for-fisker/#more-489356

    Lately I’ve been coming to a very sad conclusion when it comes to Mr Lutz ;

    That being ; The only thing he’s genuinely ‘ Patriotic ‘ about … is in fact … his own back pocket ;-)

  28. ColoradoKid Says:

    26 – So thats errrr… what ? Round three of SRX recalls ? Hmmmn . One for that Car-BQ issue …. this one ….. and err … i think there’s one more isn’t there ?

    —————————-

    @ Todd T – Hypocrisy is in fact Mr Musk’s forte’ . As to the political ‘ jab ‘ … no Jab was intended . If you’ve been paying attention as well as doing a bit of research … its a basic fact . Like Lance Armstrong in the past … the only thing thats keeping Elon and TESLA afloat and out of the hands of the SEC etc … is in fact … his friends and allies in very very ( hint hint ) high places ;-)

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26,
    They should use left hand threads on the lug nuts on the left side of cars, so loose nuts wouldn’t back off. Chrysler, and some British cars did that up into the early 60′s, but went to right hand thread on both sides, because some mechanics, and wheel changing customers couldn’t deal with the “complexity.”

  30. HtG Says:

    Wasn’t B. Lutz CEO of A123 before coming to GM? Now he wants Fisker. At least you know this will be interesting, perhaps even tax-efficient.
    ( ;) ha, a little swiss humor)

  31. ColoradoKid Says:

    22 – Believe me Kit . You paid for that ‘ Smart Remote ‘ alright . Perhaps its not obvious …. but guaranteed Toyota added in the cost of the thing somewhere along the line . Nobody … especially Toyota …. gives anything away for nothing . And at least M-B is up front about the cost ( rather than burying it into the bottom line ) and gives you a choice whether to pay it or not

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    24,
    If cars were still sold with individual options, I’d get a heater, A/C, cruise control, and an AM/FM radio. Beyond that, it would depend on the price of options, but I’d be happy with crank windows on any car.

  33. HtG Says:

    Sounds like some of you guys like my Civic. :)

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    31,
    I “paid for it,” but I had no choice. It must not cost very much to do the “smart key” thing any more, though, or it wouldn’t be standard on a Prius with an MSRP of ~$24K.

    I’m sure “keyless go,” as Mercedes calls it, is a very profitable option, at $650, but most people would want it, even on a C250. The dealer I visited recently had it on all their cars in stock. It is optional, for $650, on the C, E, and GLK. I don’t now about the others, but I’m sure it would be standard on an S-Class.

    I know you’d mentioned that your GLK doesn’t have it, but to get one that way at most dealers, you’d have to order the car.

  35. Kit Gerhart Says:

    33,
    Yeah, it would be a nice car, especially if it is the hatchback.

  36. pedro fernandez Says:

    #32 concur, cruise only if you take long trips, around here with all the traffic we have, it is pretty useless thing to have. One thing I would like is automatic temp control for those days when it’s a bit warm, normal a/c is just too cold sometimes.

  37. ColoradoKid Says:

    34 – I guess the dealership I got ‘ Franz ‘ from ( KCMO M-B ) does/did things a little bit different because the majority they had on the lot when I got mine didn’t have the ‘ smart key ‘ already on them . Maybe thats due to their Mid West sensibility … or something ..

    —-

    36- If its any consolation … I cannot stand the automated temp function …. hated it on the MINI … barely ( like only when I hit the wrong switch and don’t notice till I’m uncomfortable ) ever use it on the Benz … for my tastes its never where i want it to be when I want it to be there …so I always adjust the temp manually …. which with the Benz is easy and darn IMO accurate ….

    How’s about you Kit ? do you ever use the automated thingy on your MINI ? If so … whats your take on the system ?

  38. pedro fernandez Says:

    CK but I’ve had times when due mostly to heavy downpours I had to use the A/C and then because it was not hot, just very humid, it got super cold in the car and I would think an automatic temp thingy would keep the temp at a selected level, Am I wrong on that?

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    37 My MINI has manual temp control, with a wheel to the left for fan speed, and a wheel to the right for temp. The temp wheel has “detents, which sometimes seem to “wide” when using heat, but are ok for AC. I normally have the fan at the lowest speed, once the car is in the temp range I want. To me, the worst part of the MINI controls are the ones for the radio, and it is way more difficult to set the clock than it should be. I disconnect the battery when the car is parked for a couple months at a time in the summer, and then need to re-set the clock. It remembers the radio presets.

  40. ColoradoKid Says:

    Pedro – 38 – The problem IMO with the automated thingy is that the fan will suddenly take off like a 747 … then slows way down … then blasts back into the stratosphere .. blowing you in a force 5 gale one minute and barely cooling/heating you the next .

    But maybe even in manual mode I’ve got more control than the Vibrolla ? Because on mine … putting the system on Defog adds just enough A/C to dehumidify the windshield while leaving the temp I’ve set it at manually intact . Hee Hee … in KCMO that was an ongoing problem …. whereas in Denver ? Not so much .

    Whoa … wait a minute . Remembering SG’s 92 Corolla … you’ve only got those sliders on your Vibrolla … right ? If so that explains everything …. those sliders being about as accurate as TESLA’s P&L statements of late ;-)

  41. ColoradoKid Says:

    39 – So you didn’t get stuck with the automated system … lucky you …. its worthless .

  42. Kit Gerhart Says:

    My Prius has automatic temp control, which generally works pretty well. I find that I bump it up or down a degree or two sometimes, depending on the direction the sun is hitting the cars, etc. In “auto” mode, everything is done automatically, but if you hit any of the function buttons, like fan speed, mode, the AC on/off button, etc., it is in manual mode. I’d just as soon have a completely manual system, but the overrides generally do what I want. All Priuses, at least gen III, have the auto temp control.

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    41, Yep, the only option on my MINI is 16 inch wheels and tires.

  44. ColoradoKid Says:

    39 – +1 on setting the clock on the MINI . I hated it . Especially because if you had to glance at the manual for a second in the process … by the time you looked back up to adjust things it’d of left the function you were working on and gone back to square one . Even watered down for the MINI ….. BMW’s iDrive is IMO a nightmare to deal with

  45. pedro fernandez Says:

    CK yep 2 sliders, one to open/close the event, other for heat/no heat, very archaic but it works and it does not need engine vacuum to operate. Neither does the dial to choose which way the air comes out.

  46. Glenn Says:

    Loved today’s section on design, presented by Jim Hall. Very interesting stuff. Can’t wait to hear more from Jim.

  47. Earl Says:

    Talking about car design and Jim Hall. I’m having a little difficulty getting used to the front end. I’m from the era where that chrome grill was the thing. To-day we have cars and SUV’s that look like they’ve been in accident already.
    I can see Ford changing that front end of the Focus/ Escape to look like the Fusion which has a nice grille.
    As for Hyundai Elsntra as weird looking as the grille is the car has some good lines.

  48. ColoradoKid Says:

    My oh my GM … look how your nose has grown ;

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/05/gm-denies-car-exports-from-china-grows-nose/#more-489398

    All GM cars manufactured in China are sold in China ehhh GM ? Hmmmmn .

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    My first memory of major items, like engines, coming from China for GM cars sold in North America, were the 3.4 V-6′s in the first generation Equinox.

  50. Drew Says:

    Regarding Automated Tempurature Control systems, the import vehicles in my fleet are inferior to my domestic vehicles in terms of managing the automated fan and outlets. The one feature I demand on any climate control system is the ability to manually deactive the A/C compresssor. Do so, saves about 2 MPG. But I still value automated fan, outlet and temp control (temp for the winter).

  51. pedro fernandez Says:

    #48 CK just throw up your hands in the air, like you just don’t care and be happy with Franz and the Missus and travel this great land, before the Chinese buy it also.

  52. pedro fernandez Says:

    #50 my old Camry had an A/C econo button which limited compressor operation and was just right for those warm, not hot, sunny days.

  53. W L Simpson Says:

    CKid, EVERYBODY is most patriotic about their own
    back pocket. The “Swamp” contains those who are best at it. Simply put—-Greed Rules !

    Aerodynamics should guide all car design , but doesn’t allow much room for “diffrunt”
    If i were king,i would delete all mirrors in favor of camera & screen , add voice controls instead of distractive touch.

  54. mikey Says:

    Regarding tumblehome – Jim implied that the concept was inspired by 17th century warships. I doubt it. Car designers didn’t start incorporating tumblehome until the mid 1930s, and the idea didn’t really take hold until “through” fenders came in after WW-II.

    Tumblehome, in my opinion, has to do with a car’s stance. It makes the car’s upper look lighter and the lower portion heavier. It givs the entire car has a more stable and roadworthy appearance – less tippy than the Avalon Jim cites and less klutzy than other cars that lack tumblehome. But it’s strictly a styling convention and has nothing to do with anything practical.

  55. ColoradoKid Says:

    Pedro – 51 – Have ya heard the joke about the Chinaman who walks in your front door exclaiming this house is now his and his families and you and yours need to get the ____ out ASAP ?

    No ? Methinks we’re about to !

    Its kind of ironic and more than a bit scary . The UK Sold England by the Pound ( £ ) for certain . But at least they SOLD it . But us ( US ) We’re giving it away by the boatload …. for pennies on the dollar .. tax payer subsidized …. with a little help from our ( urp ) friends … like Lutz etc .

    ( oh dear … went a bit mad with the musical references there … special prize for who ever gets them all )

  56. ColoradoKid Says:

    53 – More than a bit cynical W L … and more than a bit inaccurate …. but I like it anyway … cause although a bit over generalized ….. as some of us do put our ethics over and above the almighty dollar .. it aint all wrong either

  57. C-Tech Says:

    I loved Design Handbook !! Thanks John, Jim, and staff.

    @ #26 No Pedro dealers do not check this anymore. Cutbacks in the amounts dealers (and thus their techs) get paid to prep and check vehicles as they come off the trucks have been cut. Technicians do enough free checks for the dealerships today. At many dealerships today it is the least experienced and lowest paid (almost)Tech that usually get this assignment, or a prep (re: easy money job) is given to an experienced tech to make up for the unpaid time spent on a difficult warranty job.

    The looks of the MKZ is growing on me now that I see them on the streets. The advertising (Obsession commercials) repel me. I don’t want to be the putz driving one in the commercial.

    Is the Spark EV cheaper than the Mitsubishi EV?

  58. Kit Gerhart Says:

    53,
    If aerodynamics ruled car design, all cars would be shaped a lot like a Prius or Insight. While, unlike some people, I don’t mind the shape of a Prius, and didn’t mind it even before I had one, I wouldn’t want all cars to be shaped like that. The automotive landscape would be pretty boring.

  59. C-Tech Says:

    @ #48 Still no Chinese GM cars shipped to the U.S., just some are shipped to smaller nations where it does not make sense to build a manufacturing plant.

  60. C-Tech Says:

    @ #57 When I look at the variety of styles available in the 50′s 60′s and 70′s, the design lanscape IS starting to get boring.

  61. Kit Gerhart Says:

    59,
    Yep, especially compared to the mid-late 50′s. You sure don’t see any new cars that look like a ’59 Cadillac. That still sets the standard for garrish, but kind of cool styling.

  62. C-Tech Says:

    The Mitsubishi iMEV starts at $21,625. and they offer a lease at $221/mo

  63. C-Tech Says:

    @ #60 The winged car era is over, but stylish cars like the 65 Riviera, 63 Thunderbird, Pantera, Mercedes 280SL, etc. all had their own unique styling cues.

  64. Sean T Says:

    Love the Design Handbook! More please!!!

  65. ColoradoKid Says:

    C-tech – It makes no sense to build cars in Brazil ??? Really ? Gee … according to GM/t Bejma/ALD etc the Brazilian auto markets supposed to be the savior of the entire industry sales wise … Hmmmmn ….

    And errr… all those Chinese built cars sold elsewhere …. couldn’t of been built here instead ??? …. Errr …. keeping more Americans employed … ahhh.. not to mention making a whole lot more beneficial use to the US of all those bailouts etc we handed over to the General ?

    Nahh. Sorry C … but that one doesn’t fly in my book .

    The truth of the matter on this one is ;

    TTAC/Ed Niedermier …. 10

    GM/Akerson/Lutz …. a big fat resounding and screaming like a mad man in an abandoned asylum ….. ZERO !

  66. Kit Gerhart Says:

    As we all well know, every car company, except small, specialty companies, builds cars all over the world. Neither GM, nor anyone else can competitively build cars in the U.S. to sell in Brazil, India, and Somalia.

  67. C-Tech Says:

    @ #64 Time to adjust your tin foil hat

  68. ColoradoKid Says:

    65,66

    I’m just sayin is all .. GM having more ‘ excuses ‘ than valid ‘ reasons’ of late … along with a constant stream of BS …. not to mention their plethora of Affirming an Denying the same thing at the same time …. along with their persistent self contradictions .

    As far as the TTAC/E.N. comment … well … its about time someone had the guts and determination to call a Spade a Spade ( in playing card terms ) when it comes to GM’s barrage of Smoke & Mirrors … Not to say TTAC gets it right 100% of the time mind you … they don’t ….. but unlike 99.999999% of the rest of the automotive press …. at least they’re trying and not allowing GM to intimidate them with threats … refusing to give press cars and test cars etc

  69. ColoradoKid Says:

    65 – And errr …. considering India like Brazil is one of the BRIC’s and one of the auto industry’s ‘ supposed ‘ and predicted sales saviors as well …. not to mention India does give compensations etc for Cars & M/C’s built AND sold in India …. are you saying like Brazil ( in GM’s mind ) it makes more sense to build cars in China for India than build cars in India itself ?

    Errrrr……. from what all I’ve read both in the US and EU/UK press …. not hardly …… which …. makes me at least suspect GM’s ties to China are a whole lot stronger than even TTAC /EN have revealed ….. and kind of does lead one to the possible conclusion that A ) GM is in debt somehow to the ‘ Dragon ‘ … and 2) Those Chinese built cars sold in American are but a’ Heartbeat’ ( sarcasm and pun intended ) away

    To put it simply …. its a case when GM’s telling the China story of 1+1=3 …

  70. T. Bejma Says:

    TTAC is losing it’s credibility as fast as CK…

  71. ColoradoKid Says:

    @ T Bejma – 69- Oh really ? And just what form of math / science / reasoning are you using to come up with that ludicrous assumption ? ObamaNomics New Math ? Dark Ages Necromancy scientific method ? Limbaugh/Emu/Howard Stern school of Philosophical Non Thinking ?

    Fact is …. TTAC / Ed N. has your minders dead to right and smack dab in the middle of their sights but you’re just loath to admit it … even to yourself due to your not being able to see the Forest for the Trees … being so utterly entrenched into the GM mindset as you are . Wake up and smell the Ragweed son ;-)

    When ( like this’ll ever happen ) GM’s Spin Doctors and Marketing actually attains the ability to distinguish Fact from Fiction ….. as well as be able to tell at least the part truth half of the time …. then T Bejma … lets have a nice pleasant little discussion about ‘ Credibility ‘

  72. ColoradoKid Says:

    BTW T Bejma .. like I’ve said before…. your pithy attempts at insult and humor …. it doesn’t suit you …. in the slightest …. nor does it do the reputation or the credibility of your Minders one solitary bit of good . Fact is … it only confirms what most people already suspect when it comes to GM .. That being GM’s over riding culture / Modus Operandi to this day … is to deny the obvious and hide behind a wall of rhetoric , insults and lies

  73. Kit Gerhart Says:

    68,
    It quite likely makes sense for GM to sell some cars from China in India, but also to make cars in India, and sell some of those in China. An example would be to make Sparks one place and Sonics the other, but only one plant for each. Of course, doing this depends on cooperation between the two countries, which might be hard to arrange.

  74. G.A.Branigan Says:

    FWIW dept:I hate GM….I love GM.I’ll ‘splain,I do love their trucks,but hate the way they operate.I’m not an insider as you know,just a customer who believes they make the best 1/2ton pickups.But the upper echelon seems to lack common sense,they are indecisive and seem to NOT know where they want to go.My advice to GM,pull your heads outta your asses,embrace common sense,and try telling the truth for a change…it will set you free.TTAC…right on the money in my book.They call it like they see it,and GM keeps giving them valid ammo.

  75. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Like it or not, GM, and Ford, and every other major car company does business in China, and will continue to do so. VW is the biggest “foreign” car company in China, followed by GM.

    I agree with everyone else that GM should not sell cars from China in the U.S. The “cold war” is still going on, in the minds of many people. with China the current enemy. Still, if GM can make money in China, they should be there. VW, Ford, Toyota, Honda, and others are not building cars in China just as a favour to Chairman Mao, or whoever is in charge now. They are there for economic reasons.

  76. G.A.Branigan Says:

    All or most of the oem’s are in china,it’s where the business is,I get that.BUT don’t (GM & Jeep) tell me that your not going to bring in that junk here,then turn around and say you will,on our dime (gm).Bad form all the way around.

  77. Kit Gerhart Says:

    76,
    It will be “bad form” if GM sells cars here from China, but they haven’t done so. To me, it is bad form that Porsche sells expensive SUV’s here from Slovakia, but they do. Yes, I know that VW/Porsche hasn’t received federal money (that I know of), and I don’t have to, and won’t buy a Cayenne.