AD #1220 – Akerson Disses Tesla, EU Car Sales to Rebound, Honda Prices Accord Hybrid

September 23rd, 2013 at 11:52am

Runtime: 7:16

Dan Akerson, Chairman and CEO of General Motors, adds Tesla to the list of companies he’s bashed. Goldman Sachs says EU car sales are set to rebound in the near future. Honda finally puts a price to the hybrid version of the Accord. All that and more, plus John McElroy talks to Billy Gibbons from ZZ Top about his love for cars and the origin of “Cadzilla.”

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Hello and welcome to a brand new week of Autoline Daily. Now let’s get back up to speed with what’s been happening in the global automotive industry.

Honda announced the price of its hybrid Accord. It starts at just under $30,000 in the American market. A Touring edition starts at nearly $35,700. These are well equipped cars and are rated at 47 miles per gallon in combined city/highway driving, or 5 liters per 100 kilometers. Earlier this summer Honda announced the price of the plug-in Accord. It starts at over $40,000.

Sales of electric cars are up 133 percent in the United States. Yet, as we’ve been saying all along, those sales are still not enough for automakers to earn a return on the billions that they’ve invested in EV technology. And now the chairman of General Motors confirms that. The Detroit News caught up with Dan Akerson at a conference in Washington D.C. Akerson announced that GM will take on Tesla, and he boasted that, “We’ll sell more Volts and lose less money on the Volts than they’ll lose on the Model S.” Akerson has a penchant for trash talking the competition. He’s also bashed Lincoln, Mercedes-Benz and BMW.

Say, did you see the latest episode of Autoline This Week? It’s all about using propane as a fuel and some of the numbers are stunning. Did you know the city of Flint, Michigan is only paying 64 cents a gallon to fill up its vehicles? That includes a 50-cent-a-gallon federal tax credit. And Omaha, Nebraska is saving millions of dollars a year running its school buses on propane — savings that are being poured back into the classrooms. Propane also cuts CO2 emissions by 40 to 50 percent so there’s an environmental angle to it as well. This is an amazing story and you can check out the whole show at

Last week we reported, European car sales fell once again in August but Goldman Sachs expects the region to start improving next year. It predicts that sales will increase 3 percent in Europe in 2014 but expects sales to remain somewhat flat beyond next year. However, Goldman is much more bullish about the U.S. It says sales could reach 17 million units in 2016.

But there’s one area that is bright for Europe. WardsAuto reports that European automakers will continue to lead all other regions in regards to the number of vehicles built on platforms designed in the region. Currently 33 percent of all vehicles produced are made on European platforms and that will grow to 35 percent by the end of the decade. Japan and the U.S. which are number two and three respectively, will see their share drop slightly by 2020 due to growth from China and India.

We’re going to be giving away this beautifully detailed die-cast model of the LeMans winning Audi R18 e-tron quattro. To win it you have to be a subscriber to our daily email newsletter. If you are not yet a subscriber it’s easy enough to sign up. It’s free and we do not give your email address out to anyone else. We’ll be picking a name at random from our subscription list to win this beautiful model, so sign up today.

We’re going to take a quick break and then listen in as ZZ Top’s Billy Gibbons talks about the cars in his personal collection.

As many of you know, Billy Gibbons from ZZ Top was in our studio last month and we talked about a lot of different things. Here’s a clip we wanted to share with you of Billy talking about the cars in his collection.

(The interview with Billy Gibbons is only available in the video version of today’s webcast.)

I tell you, for me it’s still one of the great highlights of the year having Billy Gibbons in our studio. But that brings us to the end of today’s report. Thanks for tuning in and please join us again tomorrow.

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64 Comments to “AD #1220 – Akerson Disses Tesla, EU Car Sales to Rebound, Honda Prices Accord Hybrid”

  1. G.A.Branigan Says:

    Maybe the oem’s should offer pu’s ‘propane ready’ to the public.I would consider one as opposed to a diesel.

  2. Bradley Says:

    Yeap, Akerson verifying once again why “GM” doesn’t get it.

    Please don’t tell me the chairman of GM doesn’t represent the thoughts of GM.

  3. ColoradoKid Says:

    Well well well . Will miracles never cease ? Akerson finally says something intelligent and relevant ( about TESLA that is ) Oh … but wait … then he blathers on about his pretentious POS VOLT losing ‘ Less ‘ money than the TESLA S . Like losing any amount of money on any model … especially when your company is losing money left and right on most of anything …. is a good thing .

    What are those folks at GM on these days ? Seriously …. they’re giving the M&M’s ( Marchionne & Musk ) a good run for their money when it comes to the ” Year of Delusional Thinking ”


    Angela Merkel wins the German elections by a landslide – Off Topic you say ? – Not hardly – If you understand the relationship between Merkel’s government and VW-Audi – Peich – Winterkorn – As well as comprehend that if it were not for the constant influx of cash / political favors / legal advantages etc given to VW-Audi specifically by Merkel’s coalition – Well then you’ll know that without Merkel at the helm Winterkorn’s vision of automotive World Domination would not be having half the effect it has and will have well into the future .

    Still believe the EU doesn’t allow for such things to happen and politics don’t affect the automotive industry ? Remember … #1 .. for all practical purposes Germany at present IS the EU … and ..

    … #2 Have a look see at the timing for when Marchionne’s/FIAT SpA’s financial woes really kicked in … Hint .. ( actually the answer is ) The moment Berlusconi was ousted out of office

    Nope …. I’m afraid Germany thru VW-Audi is in the process of accomplishing in the automotive industry what it couldn’t do in life with two World Wars . Total Domination


    EU Car sales ….. to rebound ? Errr … not anytime soon I’m afraid .Methinks Goldman Sachs has been delving into either GM or the M&M’s stash of late …. dude ! ;-)

  4. Mike Says:

    It seems like there must be a market/business opportunity for Propane conversions. I see one company on internet offering all the parts for a conversion at about $900 ( With 5 hours of install time, maybe $1500. The propane does not have as much energy as the gasoline so the mileage and the payback need to be calculated. These guys say they don’t make conversions for EFI vehicles. I bet someone is or will.

  5. ColoradoKid Says:

    #1 – The question being …. and the one not being asked at present is …

    WTF is all that propane supposed to come from pray tell ?

    Sorry G.A. ol buddy … but they aint no Free Lunch to be found in PropaneVille either I’m afraid …. much as we’d like to believe there could be

  6. Tony Gray Says:

    Nice model! And I am as random as you come!

  7. ColoradoKid Says:

    EU Platform Volume

    OOOOOooops !!!!!

    Read the most recent EU financial news lately ? No ? Here’s the summation ;

    Q- Who’s the single largest user of common platforms in the entire auto industry ?

    A- – That’d be VW-Audi

    Q- And who’s most used common platform is currently losing more money per car sold than any other platform in the automotive industry ?

    A- Errr …. that’d be VW-Audi

    Ooops !

  8. Brett Says:

    re: Chevy Volt and making money.

    They should’ve kept building and selling the 1967 Impala. They made a lot of money selling those.

  9. ColoradoKid Says:

    8 – :o

  10. T. Bejma Says:

    GM credit rating upgrade following Ford’s upgrade a few weeks ago…

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    For now, propane is cheap, at least some places, but it’s not likely to stay that way. As far as powering vehicles with it, you need lots of “unused” space for tanks. School buses have such space underneath, a lot of it, and they are only used for a small amount of driving between opportunities to refuel at the “bus barn.” In a
    pickup truck, you lose a lot of space in the box if you want much range with propane. It’s not as bad as CNG which needs to be stored at much higher pressure, and has lower energy density, but the propane needs a lot more storage space than gasoline, or especially diesel, for its energy content.

  12. aliisdad Says:

    Wow, is it a flashback or what?? GM’s Akerson is boosting about how he is going to take on some pretty good auto companies… It reminds me of a former GM chairman who said they finally had developed a “BMW competitor”..
    It was called the “Cimmeron”!!!

    On a more positive note, the Buick guy was another of the great guests recently on AAH, last week… I think there may be “life” at Buick although they need a new La Sabere sized car… Also, back in the late ’90′s or so, several friends, relatives, and parents had the La Sabere/Park Avenue Buicks with the six cylinder motor.. It was a pretty “large” car by current standards and very comfortable (with just a few typical GM fit and finish flaws), but it could get into the mid 30′s mpg if driven with reason.. That was really great for a car of the size and comfort of these Buicks…Yet, I don’t ever recall seeing any Buick ads telling people about the mileage or efficiency of these “large” cars…In my opinion, they really missed an opportunity not pushing their efficiency…As much as I dislike GM based on our experience with their products, I actually was considering one of these cars… What I am saying is that Buick really would benefit with a new winner with the mileage, comfort, ride, size, and “class” of those cars…Why does GM seem to always go the other way and drop a car whenever they finally have a real winner??
    But, hey, they did have the Cimmaron and Aztec and some other “fine” world-class automobiles to choose from according to their chairmen, as well!?!?!?

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The Cimmeron was more than 30 years ago. GM actually does have a BMW competitor or two now. There has been a lot of water over the dam since 1982. GM now has as many, or more best-in-class cars as any American company.

    A current LaCrosse is pretty close to being a much better LeSabre, if that is what you want. Actually, the new Impala is even closer, but it’s called a Chevy.

  14. pedro fernandez Says:

    Despite the fact that the Tesla, say what you will about it, is a well-built car, solid and a great compromise between ride and handling and very fitting for a luxury car, put a decent ICEand tranny in there and you got yourself a car that Caddy would love to be able to call their own, so this guy dissing Tesla when his own “luxury brand”after building cars for a century cannot build a flagship, RWD sedan that could take on the world’s best.

  15. T. Bejma Says:


    Ever look at a Buick Lacrosse?

    Large sedan, 25 city/36 highway…

  16. pedro fernandez Says:

    According to TTAC, Kia is gonna charge $70k for their top tier “luxury” sedan, this is ridiculous money for a car that is built by the same people that just 5 yrs ago was turning out cheap, disposable cars

  17. pedro fernandez Says:

    #14 got the opportunity to take a brief ride in a Tesla this weekend. It was like nothing I could have imagined, makes you almost want to rob a bank!

  18. ColoradoKid Says:

    VM Motori ownership update

    So thats why GM isn’t using VM’s motors in their trucks …


    Pedro – According to the two well heeled TESLA owners that were at our little conclave the TESLA S is anything but a well built quality car with good handling . Both to a number saying its a Dinosaur with an EV power train .. Sloppy handling … mushy ride … the weight becomes obvious the minute you get beyond the initial acceleration ( I completely agree after having now driven two ) ..

    And …. the fit – finish and paint job are in fact an embarrassment for a car in this price range

    Also in case you might not know this ….. the TESLA S is in fact just a revamped Fisker Karma ( Henrik designed all of it ) with different styling …. which is …. the old BMW Z8 platform underneath laden down with all that extra EV weight and mass which both Fisker and ‘Fisker for TESLA’ licensed from BMW


    allisdad – 12 My favorite part about Akerson’s most recent little rant being him bragging that his upcoming luxury VOLT will lose LESS money than the TESLA S. Not make more money mind you ….. but lose less …. Jeeze that mans gotta be on something to even consider saying anything as stupid as that

  19. ColoradoKid Says:

    17 – Take a long drive ( 30 minutes + ) Pedro … then have a close and careful look around it and guaranteed you’ll have test drivers remorse ..

    It is truly a POS for the price !!!!.. Not to mention a well out of date platform and suspension ;-)

  20. T. Bejma Says:


    The actual quote is:

    GM will “sell more [Chevrolet] Volts and lose less money on the Volts than they’ll lose on the Model S.”

    Not talking about the Cadillac. That vehicle is not being sold for a loss.

  21. ColoradoKid Says:

    Pedro –

    Cadillac vs TESLA S

    I’m gonna hate myself for saying this but …… in all honesty mi amigo …. as much as I am not impressed with anything Cadillac is building * …. gag …… urrrp …. hack ….. even the … ugh … CTS over a long haul is a better driver than that Techno Dinosaur TESLA S . By a ( bite my tongue ) long ….( oh god this hurts ) shot .

    Acckkkkk ! . Mouthwash .. somebody … quickly … soap even … please ….. hasckkkkkkkkkk…..

    ( * excepting the ATS … which would be fine …. for around $35k )

  22. ColoradoKid Says:

    T Bejma – This … is the exact quote ;

    ” “We’ll sell more Volts and lose less money on the Volts than they’ll lose on the Model S.”

    Do take notice …. he stated … rather clearly … and in more than one interview …. ” Lose Less Money on the Volts ”

    Less …. as in still losing … as in not only not making money … but losing it hand over fist to boot

    ( have any clue Mr Bejma how much money TESLA loses per S sold ? I do … and its ‘ shocking ‘ )

    And yes it ( Cadillac Volt derivative ) is being sold at a loss as well . Fact is anything VOLT based is bleeding off money like a stuck pig in a butchers shop …… from the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of the EU/UK I might add .

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Yes, G.A. posted a link to a Reuters article about FIAT taking control of VM Motori a few days ago.

  24. pedro fernandez Says:

    Well, I was impressed by the short drive in the Tesla, but then again, compared to what I drive every day, a Cinquecento would be impressive also.

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    A lot of people are impressed with the Tesla, including drivers of more “conventional” expensive cars.

    I think we all know that it is mainly an expensive toy for people with spare money, but they did a very good job with it, especially for an “upstart” car company.

  26. pedro fernandez Says:

    Even with the xtra life battery, it would be risky to take a long trip with this car, even from Miami to Orlando, range anxiety would be an issue.

  27. pedro fernandez Says:

    I just looked at the Tesla website and it does not offer a list of charging station locations, if I were seriously looking to buy this car, I would not at this point, they either don’t have nearly enough locations or they’re doing a very poor job of listing them.

  28. john897 Says:

    What set Akerson off is Elon Musk bashing GM and it’s competition recently. I don’t see why John did not mention anything about this. Why does it seem okay for Musk to bad mouth GM, but not okay if Akerson has a response to his bad mouthing? John, please tell me why.

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    You might want to take a Honda generator with you for that Miami-Orlando trip.

  30. cwolf Says:

    Further expanded use of propane in commercial truck/bus fleets makes economic sense,but not in autos. The reduced volume of gasoline not used by fleets would make more available for public use and maybe control costs…until the petro-industry fabricates another lame excuse,that is.

  31. XA351GT Says:

    John, I really enjoyed the Billy Gibbons piece. Did mention if he ever got his 58 Thunderbird project finished. I saw bits and pieces on it on a show on the old SPEED (RIP) channel.

  32. cwolf Says:

    Is it possible Winterkorn is so focused on world domination he forgot to consider the eventual effects of the aged work force and how the retirement benifits will affect the bottom line?

  33. cwolf Says:

    Accord hybrid starting at $30,000 while the Fusion hybrid starts at $26,000? The difference should startle even the most devoted Hondaloids!

  34. C-Tech Says:

    @ #29 LOL !

    Range anxiety – Trying to go all week, 6 days, until payday, on $20 worth of gas.

    Saw a barely used Fisker Karma for sale-$69K

    So how much to make this random drawing a little less random?

    Mr. Ackerson needs to take the high road and let GM’s products do the talking.

  35. C-Tech Says:

    @ #18 What proof do you have that a Tesla S is based on a BMW Z8 platform? It is ok to dislike a model or even a maker, but at least have some objective proof to start with.

  36. ColoradoKid Says:

    Alfa Romeo 4C

    OK …. I’ll pre-empt the reviews and comments no doubt coming by saying this ;

    For the $57,000 + for what amounts to a rebadged KTM X-Bow….they’ll be charging us for the thing …..( oh this’ns really gonna hurt ) ….. even I’d …. ( am I really typing this …. ) risk looking like a desperate for attention mid life crisis @&$hat in a C7 … rather than consider buying the Alfa

    Suffice it to say the KTM’s a joke and the Alfa thats being built on it only serves to make matters worse by adding weight to an already too heavy track day toy


    C-Tech – 34 – Range anxiety

    Oh yeah ? Think so eh ?

    First off …. good luck with that 200 mile range thing … but I can save you the trouble and tell you unless you’re crawling along at 35 mph or less .. or your names Elon Musk and you’ve got S’s stashed across the country to make it appear like you’ve gotten that amount of range … it aint never gonna happen

    Second – Double the good luck when your battery’s hit the wall and connected to its charger when suddenly an emergency arises ..and you need to get somewhere very quickly

    Third – The TESLA S ( and all EV’s ) dirty little inside secret . Every time you use the ‘ Quick Charger ‘ …. you diminish the batteries life span by on average 1-5% depending on conditions . Add to that operating the things in below 35f and above 82f ( which also diminishes battery life span … not range … life span ) … and there’s your range anxiety … in spades … Oh gee …. did Nissan /TESLA etc forget to mention that ? For shame … yeah … like they really care and would ever assume you’d ( well you might ) suss that out for yourself

    But C-Tech … as to ;

    ” Mr. Ackerson needs to take the high road and let GM’s products do the talking ”

    +1 x 1000 to the 10th power …. only make that …

    ” All of GM and its employees needs to …….. “

  37. Alex Kovnat Says:

    > Say, did you see the latest episode
    > of Autoline This Week? It’s all
    > about using propane as a fuel and
    > some of the numbers are stunning.

    As an adolescent coming of age in Chicago during the 1960′s, I remember when the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) had propane-powered buses. They were Faegol (spelling?) Twin Coaches powered by Hall-Scott propane engines, which used special carburetors. Said buses were replaced by GM’s New Look transit coaches with Detroit Diesel 2-stroke Diesel Engines, which were much more efficient.

    Today, propane engines use fuel injection, which is more efficient than a carburetor. And also, Diesel engines have problems with meeting emissions regs. Hence propane has made a comeback as a vehicle fuel. As long as propane and CNG deliver more miles (or should I say, more pound-miles of cargo transportation, or more passenger-miles) per $100 worth of fuel, we can expect to see more users willing to put up with whatever inconvenience is involved.

  38. ColoradoKid Says:

    35 –

    1) Fisker has been using the Z8 platform exclusively for each and every car he’s designed since he went ‘ independent ‘

    2) He designed the TESLA S ( saving the best bits for himself and his Karma )

    3) Like the Karma the TESLA is also built on a licensed BMW Z8 chassis ( ask a BMW insider ) …. and …. jeeze …. sorry C-tech but I assumed every GearHead/Car Nut knew that ….

    4) Seriously …. where’d you think that platform came from seeing as how TESLA has no in house Platform/Chassis engineering design ? Santy Claus ?

    But as to objective ‘proof ‘ What … you really expect Elon Musk to admit 80% of his cars are neither bespoke or designed ‘ In House ‘ to his deluded adoring public ?

    Come on C-Tech … I know you know better …Really … I do


  39. ColoradoKid Says:

    28 – Its not OK … its just that everyone knows Musk is a blow hard jackwagon so’s everyone expects him to mouth off in stupid ways … and pretty much ignores him when he does

  40. C-Tech Says:

    @ #38 So you don’t have any proof, ok. By the way, everyone knows there are a number of engineering and production companies that if you have enough money you can hire to design and build you a chassis, body, and/or interior. (The Budd company comes to mind)

  41. pedro fernandez Says:

    #29 As a matter of fact, Kit I’d much prefer to take a Honda vehicle on that Miami to Orlando trip than ANY EV with Prozac to relieve the anxiety associated with that. You know what? I think the 500 and Spark are the perfect EV vehicles cause they’re no good on the highway anyway.

  42. pedro fernandez Says:

    Interesting that even those who put down EV’s all the time, had to admit that the Tesla rides and handles really well, partly because of the low center of gravity that is has due to the heavy battery pack located at floor level, anyone who knows about cars realizes that both low center of gravity as well as a balanced front to rear weight ratio are crucial to great handling dynamics.

  43. C-Tech Says:

    When is the Audi drawing?

  44. ColoradoKid Says:

    Chrysler news ….. this … is an interesting development to say the least …


    C-Tech … no …. I didn’t say I had no proof now did I ? There may be no link I can give …. but I’ve given you the tools to do the research yourself as there are some things in life one cannot divulge directly …. but can give general directions to

    But really C- Tech …. everyone from Germany .. to the UK right on down to California has know since its announcement that the TESLA S is in fact … as is the Fisker Karma … built on a licensed from BMW Z8 platform …. unless of course you chose to believe Musk got the Chassis out of thin air of course … as his many ‘ followers ‘ do .


    42 – Pedro – 42 – Once again …. its the magazines and the TESLA sponsored owners forum making those ludicrous claims … all to a number paid to do so … whereas the honest owners out there who have their own Forum to rant on will tell you a different story …. that of an over weight lead brick attempting to handle like a sports sedan when in fact it cant even keep up in the handling department with the average modern CUV/SUV

    Seriously Pedro . I’ve driven two .. one here .. one in Aspen … and believe me … once you get over the initial ‘ WOW ‘ factor its all downhill from there

  45. ColoradoKid Says:


    This’ns for you !!!

    Enjoy !

  46. ColoradoKid Says:

    Yeah the Reverend Billy G’s a weird sort of a duck ….. but he’s my kind of weird sort of a duck thru and thru …. now where’d I put those cheap sunglasses ?

    If’n y’alls in a mood for a couple of other ‘ rockers ‘ with IMO some bad ____ hot rods and customs check out Jeff Beck and James Hetfield’s collections ….. and ol’ Slo Hand ( Eric Clapton) has a good number of Brizio built rods as well . His P/U is to die for and his Vicky …. is sublime

    Rock On Drive On Carry On … and Stay Calm ;-)

  47. pedro fernandez Says:

    #44 That’s probably what all the men who have dated Pam Anderson say as well.

  48. pedro fernandez Says:

    Gee I had no idea my ability to appreciate good cars was so awful, must be all these years of driving an old POS I don’t know what’s good and what’s not anymore.

  49. Don B. Says:

    I saw the weekend show.
    I was shocked TOO!!! 700K mile before retiring a van. Who does Benning have servicing his vehicles?
    My company has a American Auto Assoc rated Sevice Company, a National Company, G——-, and we are luck if they get to 250K miles. Sometimes the trucks go back several times for the same problem.
    John find out who does his service.

  50. Kit Gerhart Says:

    44, so everyone in the world, except CK, is bought off, and is a liar. Also, everyone keeps a lot of things secret, so you can’t give us any sources that document your statements. Can’t you give your stating opinion as fact a rest, at least once in a while? Please?

  51. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Actually, if the S were built on a BMW platform, why wouldn’t Elon brag about it, rather than hide it?

  52. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’d also rather take a Honda, or a Volt from Miami to Orlanda. Even though the Tesla is clearly the best “road csr” of pure electric cars, the range is what it is, and would be marginal, at best, for that trip.

    And yeah, Spark, 500, smart, etc. will do what pure electric cars are good for, short commutes, shopping trips, etc., for people who can do all of their charging at home.

  53. Kit Gerhart Says:

    G.A., is this your next truck?

  54. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ Kit: Hopefully…..not.I really don’t want another full size despite it being a diesel.I’ll gladly wait and see what the upcoming gm midsize twins has to offer,and also waiting to see what Nissan will do with the Frontier,and the Cummins ISF 2.8L.I’m in no big hurry,and I will be very fussy in what I end up with.

  55. ColoradoKid Says:

    This Chrysler thing is really making the rounds this morning in the financial as well as popular media

    It kind of makes me wonder if the Chrysler specific powers that be .. along with Chrysler’s UAW have finally come to the very correct conclusion that their ‘ Savior ‘ … Marchionne and FIAT SpA … have become more a ‘ Lead Anchor ‘ around Chrysler’s neck

    Personally … I hope the IPO happens … takes off like a rocket and that Chrysler can finally shed itself of the disease known as Marchionne/FIAT SpA once and for all

    It most likely won’t go that way ….. but I wish it would ;-)


    #50 – Did the whole Google debacle here and your participation in it teach you nothing Mr Gerhart ?

  56. ColoradoKid Says:

    48 – Pedro … no … the problem is the initial WOW factor is not a good basis to judge a car on

    Remember my old SRX review and what I said ? The first 30 miles I was certain I’d buy one …. by the next 50 I was certain I wouldn’t …. by the last 100 I wanted to drive the thing off a cliff so’s no one else would get stuck with the POS .

    First impressions ( especially short ones ) when it comes to cars … are pretty much worthless especially with todays Whizz Bang mobiles .

  57. ColoradoKid Says:

    51 – Seriously ??? … With all the evidence on hand as to Elon’s excessive hyper inflated ego maniacal behavior from the day he hit the media and you even need to ask that question ?

    Ugh … now I’m beyond disappointed …. sigh … some folks just don’t get it …. at all … hopeless …. absolutely hopeless

    But for the record … if you’d just built a ‘ new ‘ car … were bragging left and right how ‘ advanced ‘ it was …. would you be bragging about it using a platform thats now some 14 years ( 1999 – 2003 ) out of date ?


    Pedro – In all honesty I’d rather ‘ push ‘ a Honda Generator from Miami to Orlando than drive it in a TESLA .. or a (re)VOLT(ing ) for that matter ;-)

  58. Kit Gerhart Says:

    As you well know, the BMW name has allure, and having some BMW DNA, even old, (but exclusive) BMW DNA would not be a bad thing for selling a car. Chrysler sales people in the know certainly like to point out the Benz DNA of some of what they sell.

    Yeah, you are right that an egomaniac like Elon might not want to take advantage of that.

    Still, how about some evidence that the “S” even uses anything related to a Z8 chassis.

  59. pedro fernandez Says:

    CK some samples of cars I instantly disliked when I first started driving them: PT Cruiser, Accent (prev gen) Cavalier, Mustang 2, old Camaro. Dodge Minivan and the feeling only got worst the longer I drove them

  60. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The previous generation Accent reminded me of a Geo Spectrum (Isuzu I-Mark) I had, a very basic econobox, but ok for what they were. My Spectrum and the Accent I drove were both manual transmission. I never drove either one with an automatic, and might have disliked those.

  61. pedro fernandez Says:

    Yes Kit but the problem was that I rented it for a long trip where I had to drive 8 hrs total in one day and my back got messed up due to its horrible seats and it was just not a good highway cruiser.

  62. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Yeah, neither the old Accent, not the Spectrum I had would have been good road cars.

  63. Brett Says:

    I’m still trying to reconcile “It has a BMW Z8 chassis” with “They were able to give it a lower center of gravity and improve crash safety because they didn’t have the impediment of trying to fit the electric drivetrain components into a platform designed for an IC drivetrain.”

    Which is it?

  64. XA351GT Says:

    Thanks C/K @#45 That turned out pretty cool. I saw the early stages of the build ,but never knew if it had been finished. Thanks again. Yeah Billy G . does dance to his own beat for sure. I too like that beat .Time for a party on the Patio.