AD #2233 – Infiniti Reveals New QX80, German Collusion Could Be Costly, Will BEVs Really Catch On?
November 14th, 2017 at 11:46am
Runtime: 6:56
0:30 Hail Atlantis!
0:51 Don’t Buy, Share
1:20 Will BEVs Really Catch On?
2:50 The Book Cadillac
3:23 German Collusion Could Be Costly
4:45 Heavy Truck Sales Soar
5:21 New Infiniti QX80
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On today’s show…uh-oh German automakers are facing tens of billions of dollars in fines over collusion…the Chrysler Pacifica is going to get a brother from Dodge…and Infiniti redesigns the biggest vehicle in its lineup. All that and more coming right up on Autoline Daily.
This is Autoline Daily the show for enthusiasts of the automotive industry.
HAIL ATLANTIS!
Looks like the Chrysler Pacifica minivan is going to get a brother. Autoforecast Solutions reports that the Dodge Grand Caravan will go out of production at the end of 2019, and will be replaced with a new van called the Dodge Atlantis. Get it? Pacifica, Atlantis. The two names go together.
DON’T BUY, SHARE
A new report from IHS Markit says that ridesharing is going to hurt new car sales. Right now there are about 300,000 cars used for ridesharing in the U.S., Europe, China and India. But by 2040 there will be 10 million ridesharing cars, and each of those cars can take the place of 15 privately owned vehicles. IHS says that’s going to bring the growth in new car sales to a crawl.
WILL BEVs REALLY CATCH ON?
That study also says that 30% of all cars will be battery electrics by 2040. It predicts that as battery costs fall, consumer acceptance will go up. And maybe they’re right, but I beg to differ. Let’s take a look at hybrid cars. The first one appeared in the U.S. market 18 years ago. There are now 31 different hybrid models. There is no range anxiety with hybrids. You don’t need to search for a charging station. And they are price competitive. A base Prius is only $24,000. And yet hybrids only represent 2% of new vehicle sales. If the public isn’t very interested in hybrids, that suggests battery electrics are going to have a harder time than BEV proponents suggest. What do you think? If electric cars match the price of piston engine cars, will the public warmly embrace them, or are sales going to be more like hybrids?
Still to come…German automakers want to spend billions on electric cars, but they may end up paying that money in fines.
THE BOOK CADILLAC
Earlier this year, Cadillac launched an on-demand vehicle subscription service called BOOK by Cadillac in New York City. Things are going so well it’s expanding the service to Los Angeles and Dallas. For $1,800 a month members can choose different Cadillacs to drive and a concierge will drop it off wherever you want. You can exchange vehicles 18 times per year and it includes maintenance and insurance. Cadillac says BOOK is bringing in new and younger customers.
GERMAN COLLUSION COULD BE COSTLY
German automakers are in a world of trouble with European Union authorities. WardsAuto reports that Audi, Daimler, BMW, Porsche and Volkswagen are accused of violating anti-trust laws and are facing fines of nearly $60 billion. The collusion, which the German media dubbed “Das Kartell,” centers around the AdBlue fluid need to control diesel emissions. The system needs a 5-gallon tank to work properly. However, the German automakers are accused of colluding to use a 2-gallon tank, which made AdBlue ineffective. Volkswagen and Daimler could see reduced penalties since they blew the whistle on the violations. But the automakers could still be sued by individuals or companies in the EU and it’s also possible that they could be slapped with additional fines by U.S. authorities.
Coming up next, Infiniti redesigned its biggest SUV and it redesigned it to look even bigger.
HEAVY TRUCK SALES SOAR
As you all know we like keeping track of sales of big semis because they’re a leading indicator of what will happen in the economy in the near future. And sales of Class 8 semis are skyrocketing. Ward’s reports that sales shot up a whopping 37% last month. In fact, the total heavy and medium duty segment was up 27%. The same thing is happening in Canada. Sales of mediums and heavies were up a staggering 50%. And numbers like these suggest a warm and sunny climate ahead for the American and Canadian economies.
NEW INFINITI QX80
One of the most profitable segments in the auto industry is with full size SUVs. And Infiniti just pulled the wraps off the newest version of the QX80. The styling is more angular and sculpted than the outgoing model and is deliberately designed to look longer. It’s big. Over 17 feet long, more than 6 feet tall, and six and a half feet wide. Power comes from a 400 horsepower 5.6 liter V-8. Inside you’ll find all the double-stitching, French seams, and quilted leather that are de rigeur of today’s luxury SUVs. There are far more details on the QX80 than we can possibly go into here. To get all the information that’s available, click on the link in today’s show transcript, which you can find on our website at www.Autoline.tv.
Hey, don’t forget to join us on Autoline After Hours this Thursday. We’ll have Mike O’Brien, the head of product planning for Hyundai Motor America on the show. What does Hyundai have up it’s sleeve? Join me and Gary Vasilash to find out. That’s Thursday, starting live at 3 pm eastern time.
And with that we wrap up today’s show, thanks for watching and please join us again tomorrow.
Thanks to our partner for embedding Autoline Daily on its website: WardsAuto.com
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Comments (29)
November 14th, 2017 at 11:56 am
Clearly BOOK has a limited market at that price. As for BEVs beating hybrids, BEVs’ offer a distinct advantage was far as maintenance goes. No oil change and other items related to ICE. That puts hybrids at a distinct disadvantage. Having said that “ecomonics rules the purchase world” Until there are charging stations that can charge the same rate as a petro fill and everywhere gas stations are now, that will be the drawback along with battery cost.
November 14th, 2017 at 12:19 pm
BEVs? It will be a long time. Reality suggests all is moot until an EV can be built with a profit independently of any government incentive AND can be priced equal to any segment ICE.
November 14th, 2017 at 12:20 pm
I likely wouldn’t consider a BEV mainly because of the charging expense at home (there’s no free lunch!) and the lack of fast charging accessible stations in the field.
A Hybrid is an option but to my knowledge, there aren’t any “reasonable” sporty cars, i.e. Camaro, Mustang that offer a Hybrid version. Then, there’s the performance aspect. While not a “pedal to the metal” type, the hybrids I’ve driven have good initial acceleration but once their rolling they seem to lose their “bluster”. Then, there’s the black hole of the problems with the batteries and the electric portion in general…
November 14th, 2017 at 12:25 pm
Call me a dinosaur ,but I’m not ride sharing. I like owning my own equipment. Having rented equipment I know that many times to get left with crap that doesn’t work like it should and waste your time trying to either replace it or get it to work .Also knowing that people tend to not treat stuff they don’t own very well( hell many beat the tar own stuff) I don’t want to follow behind someone else.
November 14th, 2017 at 12:31 pm
As long as gas is dirt cheap in the U.S., relatively speaking, hybrids won’t sell in huge numbers. If gas were $6 a gallon, there would be a lot more hybrids sold, and a lot fewer huge SUV’s and pickups.
As far as pure electrics, they will remain primarily commuter cars, for the foreseeable future. It they had quick change batteries, or if there were as many charge stations as gas stations, and batteries could be charged in 5 minutes, EV’s would be practical highway vehicles, but as things are now, they are not. Even a Tesla S is highly compromised as a long distance highway car, compared to gas burners.
As I’ve mentioned before, I like plug-in hybrids as “do everything” cars with low operating cost, but I don’t have a place to plug one in, so it wouldn’t work for me.
All of this assumes battery costs will continue to come down, making plug-in cars price competitive, or nearly so.
November 14th, 2017 at 12:34 pm
#3 Rumor has it, that Ford will sell a hybrid Mustang. That should be interesting.
November 14th, 2017 at 12:35 pm
BEVs still face 2 main challenges. 1)Battery life which could lend a 8-10 year old car needing a 5-10k battery.
2)EVs still have range limitations even if a charging structure is put in place. People will not want to wait any longer to fill up than it takes to fill a tank of gas.
Sorry David but I disagree with the advantage of service/maintenance of an EV. Most cars today need very little beyond oil changes for 100k miles. Most are now at 10k intervals now too so 10 oil changes at $50 is far cheaper than buying a new battery. Imagine if a manufacturer produced a ICE vehicle that required a new powertrain after 10 years regardless of mileage.
EVs will be a big hit for those that have a second car for trips. They don’t plant to keep beyond 5-7 years and typically live in a house or housing that provides charging stations. IMO
November 14th, 2017 at 12:35 pm
As for BEV vehicles catching on, maybe it will depend on where you live. In metropolitan areas, this may happen, but in rural areas, like where I live, I just don’t see a wholesale change to a BEV happening anytime soon. Range anxiety, charging times, and poor battery performance in cold weather (zero degrees F and colder) will give an ICE powered vehicle an advantage for a long time.
November 14th, 2017 at 12:40 pm
#7 Yep, oil change intervals are once a year or 10K miles for a Prius, and probably most other Toyotas. It’s once a year or 15K miles for a MINI. The Corvette has a “count down,” that ends up saying about 7K miles.
November 14th, 2017 at 12:44 pm
I admit I don’t know about diesel urea injection but the size of the reservoir should not change the function of the chemical. Having a small tank will make you stop at the dealer more , which could be considered a scam to get more service work. If the euro cars continue to operate with an empty “blue” tank, then it’s the euro government’s fault for allowing it.
November 14th, 2017 at 12:50 pm
The more hybrids on the road, the more gas for the truck loving people.
November 14th, 2017 at 1:46 pm
The main advantages of a BEV over a hybridare package efficiency, torque, and handling (low Cd). The advantages of a hybrid over a. eV have already been stated – range and economics.
November 14th, 2017 at 2:01 pm
Right on Don B. #9, the size of the tank only makes fill-ups more frequent. Urea is available at a lot of automotive stores, even Walmart and other retail outlets. This is not rocket science, you just add to the urea tank. If the Europeans want some sort of lock-out if the tank is empty, that’s one thing, fining the automakers billions just sounds as they are dipping into profits for their own interests (elsewhere). Collusion, I’m not so sure, co-operation so all makers are playing on the same field, more likely. Just an opinion (and I will yield if I’m wrong)
November 14th, 2017 at 3:11 pm
Ad Blue- in further reading it is alleged that because of the manufactures agreeing on limiting tank size that emissions aren’t being cleaned as much as they could with out increasing the amount of times you would have to refill the fluid to a point that people maybe wouldn’t tolerate. Seems like a bit of a stretch but either way they were colluding. Imagine that – a german car company colluding on emission cheating!
Say it isn’t so…
November 14th, 2017 at 3:20 pm
I don’t know how the add blu system works on the eu diesels,but here if you run out of def,the nanny puts you into limp home mode. I don’t see much of a difference if the tank is 2 gallons or 20. When it needs to be filled up,you fill it up,period.
November 14th, 2017 at 3:35 pm
The sole advantage for hybrids is fuel economy. You are right John, that’s not enough. If I remember, Lincoln was selling MKX in both regular and hybrid trim for the same price and still people preferred the regular version.
EVs are a totally different kettle of fish. Perky, fun, and economical (once purchased). Costs about 1/3 to fill up on electricity at home as buy gas. But, most will not go to one car families. Ideal as a second car, they are most practical when you recharge only at home. For me, with the Bolt, it’s not range anxiety, it’s that I don’t want to spend that time searching for an available charger and then waiting for the charge.
Years ago we had a propane van. Economical but a real pain to find a refuelling station. No thanks.
November 14th, 2017 at 4:02 pm
Hybrids also tend to last longer especially in a taxi situation
November 14th, 2017 at 4:35 pm
#6. The hybrid Mustang is not a rumor. Ford publicly announced it will do it. And they promise it’s going to have terrific performance.
November 14th, 2017 at 4:50 pm
#16 Thanks for info, John.
I hope they use a system similar to the usual Toyota/Ford system, only scaled up to 300 hp or so. It would have smooth, seamless power, like a Prius or Fusion hybrid, only a lot more power. I suspect I’d like it.
November 14th, 2017 at 4:53 pm
#14 Was there ever an MKX hybrid? There was an MKZ hybrid, for the same price as the V6. The hybrid used half as much gas, but the V6 was peppier.
November 14th, 2017 at 5:11 pm
#14 A friend had a propane pickup truck years ago, and he filled it only at home, and drove something else if going very far. It was a Ford with the 300 cid six and, as I remember, it had only about 100 mile range with the tank in the front of the box.
November 14th, 2017 at 6:04 pm
John,
When you mention the heavy truck sales would it be possible to list out the details like you do with the auto companies, we see the heavy trucks on the road everyday we commute and I think it would be interesting to know which companies do best. Thanks.
November 14th, 2017 at 7:38 pm
Called a “garage hybrid,” BEV owners often have a second car. Worse, BEVs are seldom driven to their range limit. In contrast, a plug-in hybrid fires up the engine and completes the trip. This also works in reverse.
Gas gauges are notoriously imprecise. When doing a cross-country trip, the battery provides an accurate, 20-50 mile reserve which is enough to reach a 24×7 gas station or a safe place to park.
Our plug-in hybrids cost less than half than gas around town, ~90% of our miles. For the remaining 10% vacations and trips, we get 40-56 MPG which is quite affordable. As for the other, 98% market buyers, we don’t expect them to pay us the fuel bill difference.
Bob Wilson, Huntsville, AL
November 15th, 2017 at 6:48 am
Even if the German car companies colluded in the size of the urea tank (I’d call it cooperating so no one could claim range advantage), as said, some form of limp mode could be initiated to require the tank to be filled (even if more often). Urea, at least in the States is easily assessable and quite inexpensive, so I don’t see the problem. And certainly, billions in fine; I find that excessive, and perhaps the governments involved, colluded (if seeking such a high payout). A spare bottle of urea could be stashed in the trunk/boot/storage compartment for such occurrences and I would think (but don’t know for sure) whether there is a urea-low-level warning seen on the dash.
November 15th, 2017 at 7:18 am
Today’s hybrids are slow and ugly. Electrics like Tesla are faster and far superior to any gas car. As Cd replaced Vinyl because of superiority so shall electric replace ICE. Superiority at price parity is a no brainer.
November 15th, 2017 at 7:33 am
P.S.
John you should try living with a Tesla for a week. With only 50 AMP charging at home, 100 KW battery and supercharger on the highways there is never any range anxiety. It is a far easier and more carefree experience than a fossil car. A test drive is not like living with the car. A properly done electric such as a Tesla is just a joy with which to live.
November 15th, 2017 at 8:40 am
I think part of the range anxiety with a pure EV comes from the fact that charging stations are limited and unlike gas if you do run it dry you can walk to the nearest station and carry a gas can with a few gallons to get you home.
November 15th, 2017 at 8:49 am
#23 A Prius is faster than a 1960′s Ford, Chevy, or Plymouth with the base V8, about 10 seconds 0-60. A Fusion hybrid is a little quicker. That is plenty “fast enough” for normal driving. For “modern” comparison, a Ford Escape is only 0.2 seconds quicker 0-60 than the Prius, and tied in the quarter mile (CR tests; they do automatics the same way, just floor it).
As far as “ugly,” that is in the eye of the beholder. I understand some people considering Priuses to be ugly, but it would take rather unusual aesthetics to consider today’s Fusion ugly.
November 15th, 2017 at 8:53 am
Even with a Tesla, you have to “pick your routes” when on a long trip, and make more frequent, and longer stops to “fuel up.” A Tesla would be a great commuter car, if you have a place to plug in at home, and want to spend that much money on the car. As a “do everything” car, it doesn’t compete, at least not yet.