AD #2252 – Jeep Wrangler Impressions, Big Fight in Washington Over EVs, Audi Hangs on to Ducati
December 13th, 2017 at 11:55am
Runtime: 7:49
0:28 Audi Hangs on to Ducati
0:57 Toyota & Panasonic Partner on EV Batteries
1:19 Premium Fuel Not Worth It
2:40 Waymo’s Autonomous Business Case
3:31 Big Fight in Washington Over EVs
5:08 Jeep Wrangler Impressions
6:35 Mercedes Reveals New G-Class Interior
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On today’s show…Google makes its business case for autonomous cars…Automakers and environmentalists fight over electric cars…and we get to drive the new Jeep Wrangler. All that and more coming right up on Autoline Daily.
This is Autoline Daily the show for enthusiasts of the automotive industry.
AUDI HANGS ON TO DUCATI
To help pay for its shift towards electric vehicles and for all the fines from its diesel scandal, there were rumors that Volkswagen might sell Ducati. But Rupert Stadler, the CEO of Audi, which owns the Italian motorcycle company, says that’s not going to happen. Thanks to cost cutting and deeper ties with Porsche, Audi is in a good financial position, and they are going to keep the motorcycle company, thank you very much.
TOYOTA & PANASONIC PARTNER ON EV BATTERIES
The race to develop electric cars continues to heat up. Just a few years ago Toyota was pooh-poohing EVs, saying that fuel cell cars were the answer. Now Toyota is trying to play catch up. It just announced it’s teaming up with Panasonic to develop prismatic batteries for electric vehicles.
PREMIUM FUEL NOT WORTH IT
In the meantime, the vast majority of us will drive piston engined cars. But If you own a vehicle that recommends but doesn’t require premium gasoline, the AAA says don’t buy premium. It just did a study that shows fuel economy improved only 2.7% when using premium but it costs anywhere from 20 to 25 percent more than regular fuel. They tested six vehicles: the Ford F-150, Ford Mustang, Cadillac Escalade, Mazda Miata, Audi A3 and Jeep Renegade. The Audi actually got 1% worse fuel economy with premium, while the Escalade improved by 7%. Researchers also found that premium fuel doesn’t really help improve horsepower, only up by 1.4% on average.
There’s a big political fight in Washington over EVs and that’s coming up next.
WAYMO’S AUTONOMOUS BUSINESS CASE
Ever since Google started developing autonomous car technology everyone wanted to know how it was going to go to market with it? Would it make its own cars, or what? Well, now we know more. John Krafcik, the head of what is now called Waymo sees four business opportunities. First, he says they will license their autonomous system to automakers, and he says FCA is an amazing partner in that effort. Next, he says logistics and trucking companies are very interested because Waymo can put its system on Class 8 semis. After that, cities and municipalities want it for what they call the last mile of transportation. But perhaps most importantly Waymo wants to offer its own ride sharing service. So watch out Uber and Lyft. Waymo is coming after your business.
BIG FIGHT IN WASHINGTON OVER EVs
There’s a big fight going on in Washington over electric cars. Automakers worry that there will not be enough consumer demand to meet ZEV mandates. So far this year, battery electric cars only account for 0.18% of all cars sold in the American market. While electrics sell somewhat better in California, 13 other states have adopted California’s zero emissions vehicle mandate, or ZEV mandate. But EV sales are abysmal in those states. Automakers are worried they will not be able to meet fuel economy standards after 2022, when they really ramp up. Environmentalists are accusing automakers and the Trump Administration of emasculating air quality standards. Here’s my Autoline Insight. Fuel economy standards will continue to get stricter every year for the next five years no matter what decision is taken. As I’ve said all along, instead of trying to reach the target in 2025, they should just stretch it out to 2030. That five years would give automakers a lot of breathing room and we’d still get to the same result anyway.
We got to test drive the new Jeep Wrangler and we’ll tell you what we thought about it right after this.
JEEP WRANGLER IMPRESSIONS
The Wrangler is the most iconic Jeep of them all, with roots that go back to the Second World War. And the lastest version is the best one they’ve ever made. They changed everything. New frame, new body, new interior, new powertrains, you name it. The result is a bigger, lighter, more comfortable Wrangler that gets better fuel economy but still retains all its amazing off road capabilities. It’s a more sophisticated Jeep that is much quieter inside and drives much better on the highway. The base engine is the 3.6 liter V6 that gets 20 miles to the gallon. An optional 2-liter turbo will be available later after launch. Not only is it faster than the V6, it will probably get a couple of miles per gallon more, but there are no official numbers yet. A 3-liter diesel will be available sometime in 2019. There’s a choice of an 8-speed automatic, a 6-speed manual, and two different all-wheel drive systems. The Rubicon version has amazing rock crawling capabilities. With the manual transmission, it has an 84.2:1 crawl ratio. The base Wrangler starts at just over $28,000, but you can easily load one up over forty grand. It goes on sale in about four months and it’s going to help Jeep get its sales going because the brand has been down all year long.
| 2018 JEEP WRANGLER POWERTRAIN | |
|---|---|
| 3.6 V6 | 285 hp and 260 lb.-ft. |
| 2.0 I-4 | 270 hp and 295 lb.-ft. |
| 3.0 Diesel | 260 hp and 442 lb.-ft. |
MERCEDES REVEALS NEW G-CLASS INTERIOR
And speaking of iconic off-road vehicles, Mercedes is showing off the interior for the new G-Class. While it has a more modern look with an upgraded instrument panel, infotainment screen and other new features, the inside still somewhat resembles the previous model. The new G-Class also is roomier for both the driver and passengers. The SUV makes its official debut at the Detroit auto show next month and it will go on sale in late 2018 in the U.S.
Don’t forget to join us tomorrow for Autoline After Hours. Our guest is Simon Sproule, the Chief Marketing Officer for Aston Martin. By the way he also reported directly to Elon Musk and Carlos Ghosn, so Simon brings an amazing background with him. Join Gary and me for some of the best insights on what’s happening in the global automotive industry.
But that wraps up today’s show, thanks for watching and making Autoline Daily a part of your day.
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Comments (27)
December 13th, 2017 at 12:11 pm
I’m really liking the all new JL Unlimited.
December 13th, 2017 at 12:22 pm
Premium fuels usually have more detergent additives (from what I’ve read) and, therefore, it’s not a bad idea to run a tankful through the system a couple of times a year just to keep things clean of deposits.
December 13th, 2017 at 12:32 pm
#2 I’ve been using regular gas in my two “premium recommended but not required” cars, a 2010 MINI Cooper, and a 2016 Corvette. I make it a point to use “top tier” brands that, supposedly, have similar detergent additives in all grades, including regular.
December 13th, 2017 at 12:32 pm
John I’m a bit puzzled. jeeps have a terrible reliability rep, plus the “death wobble” situation. Is it just image that keep this car selling?
December 13th, 2017 at 12:50 pm
Regular and Premium (naming) are from a bygone era; the biggest difference is the octane so if you don’t need it (octane) don’t buy it. All gasolines are required to add a certain amount of detergents to their fuel, and while the minimum legally required may be slightly subpar, if you are re-fueling with a Top-tier brand, detergent/additives all must meet the toptier requirements (in order for that gasoline brand to earn the Top-tier rating.
December 13th, 2017 at 12:57 pm
If the engine has a knock/ping detector system, the timing may be retarded when using lower octane fuel with adverse impact on HP & economy. Volvo V70R with turbo is premium required, while Corvette as Kit stated is premium advised, & Fusion 2.7 turbo only states regular. Will admit that with an estimated on-cost of $225 to $250 for premium, I’m being a sucker to obtain maximum performance. And I use top-tier fuel (Costco’s finest) >95% of the time.
December 13th, 2017 at 12:57 pm
@ #4: My last Jeep was a brand new 08 JK 2dr. Off road it was at home,on paved hwy it didn’t handle well. I experienced DW once,on the hwy doing 65mph. I forget how many miles I had on it,maybe 20k,that’s all.
Reason for the DW was improper sized bolts on some of the front end components,and overall cheap suspension components.
IF the new JL’s are built with better parts,it should make them very drivable/durable.I hope…
December 13th, 2017 at 12:59 pm
I have a 2014 Lexus that I bought used. It has 60k miles. It needs a new catalytic converter (which is covered under warranty).
The dealer said its most likely because the prior owner put low grade fuel in the car regularly. In Iowa (where I live), Low grade fuel has a large concentration of Ethanol.
Don’t know if there is any truth to any of that, but I have never had a single issue using Premium fuel.
December 13th, 2017 at 1:07 pm
A lot of Electric cars are not sold in every state, so comparing sales numbers to California isn’t entirely fair.
Which is cheaper, lowering the price of an EV (and loose some money) or simply paying the penalties?
December 13th, 2017 at 1:20 pm
Automakers should not have to build vehicles that consumers do not want. Government is trying to put the cart before the horse. The public will not embrace EVs until the charging infrastructure in in place and until the vehicles can deliver similar range and refueling times as a ICE. Mandating ZEV’s to the manufacturer is like telling McDonalds they need to make a percentage of Tofu burgers regardless if they sell them. Hopefully as POTUS pushes for less government regulation this will be one area that gets some common sense.
December 13th, 2017 at 1:36 pm
#8 Bradley; I doubt that fuel was the cause of the converter failure. Most times its because the car is due for plugs and isn’t firing properly. Un-burned fuel gets pushed out the exhaust and will melt the ceramic brick within the converter. Running E85 in an non-E85 vehicle typically runs the risk of damaging certain plastic components, gaskets aluminum fuel rails, injector o-rings and fuel lines that cant handle the corrosive nature of Ethanol. But it would most likely take more than a tank to do any damage. IMO
December 13th, 2017 at 1:47 pm
#11 If you put E85 in a non-E85 vehicle, it just won’t run, or will barely run. The mixture will be too lean. Yeah, it might also damage some parts.
#6 I did some fairly careful gas mileage checking between regular and premium in my cars, and the difference was too small to detect. Also, I can’t feel a power difference, even with the MINI which doesn’t have a lot of power, and I might be more likely to feel the difference. Still, if I were going to run either car “hard,” like playing on a race track or autocrossing, I would run the tank low and fill it with premium.
December 13th, 2017 at 1:51 pm
#11
I did just have the plugs replaced at 60k. I think its the first time its needed per the maintenance plan.
Thanks!
December 13th, 2017 at 2:04 pm
Kit A non-E85 car will run on E85 unless your talking something carbureted. Almost all modern engines have the sensors in place to richen or lean the fuel mixture to prevent spark knock or it running lean. But it will run I guarantee it.
December 13th, 2017 at 2:16 pm
Will a non-E85 engine richen the 30-some per cent necessary to run on E85? I haven’t tried it, nor would I, but i’d be surprised if a regular system has that much range.
December 13th, 2017 at 2:17 pm
#10 – yesterday there was an article about how dealers do a poor job of selling EVs. There was also a recent article about the rapid turnover of dealer staff. Small wonder EVs and plug-in hybrids sales are slow. In some areas, even hybrids have a hard time.
The West coast has mountain ranges, sometimes on fire, that concentrates pollution. Denver has a bowl and I remember the choking smogs of DC in the 1970s. Sure today’s engines have lower emissions but they are reaching the technical limits … when not cheated.
We own two, plug-in hybrids, and our EV miles are half the cost of gas miles. It is personal economics, not emissions that drive me.
As for emissions, I have no problem with coal fired, electrical power generated near the coal mines and high-tension power lines export the electricity. They get both the ‘clean’ coal jobs and health benefits while I get cheap electricity. The only problem is wind and solar are cheaper than coal power.
Bob Wilson, Huntsville AL
December 13th, 2017 at 2:48 pm
I believe that greenhouse gases contributes to climate change, so I would rather see less coal used for power generation, even if I had to pay a little more for electricity.
Disregarding that, plug-in vehicles can greatly improve air quality in densely populated areas, and in specific area like SoCa and Denver. It still seems difficult to find real inforation about the end-of-life disposal/recycling of batteries.
December 13th, 2017 at 3:52 pm
#14 and #15. I wouldn’t ever run E85 in a non-E85 engine. I doubt it would work because E85 vehicles have an additional sensor to measure the ethanol content, which feeds into the ECM. Also, E85 vehicles get different ECM programming. Worse, in time the ethanol will eat through all the gaskets in the fuel pump, the fuel lines and the injectors. E85 vehicles get special gaskets.
December 13th, 2017 at 4:02 pm
If (and when) ‘electrics’ are on par or near par with ICE then you will see the increase of sales. I don’t have too much of a problem with incentives, but when, even with incentives the ‘electrics’ come up short, well then, that’s what we are seeing now (poor sales). Forcing ‘electrics’ will meet resistance, in fact, forcing most things will see similar results. I would buy an electric (for my in and around town travels) if the price were more in line with what I can achieve with what is currently available (or at least I would more heavily consider electric) if performance were closer to what is already out there.
December 13th, 2017 at 4:57 pm
#18 Yes that is what I said in my post #11. But I know of folks that have accidentally pumped E85 into a non-E85 engine and it did run.
December 13th, 2017 at 5:22 pm
#20 It would depend on what percentage of E85 you have in the tank. If you run it low and fill it full with E85, I suspect most non-flex fuel cars would run very poorly, if at all. If you start pumping tbe E85, and after a gallon notice, and say oh sh!+ and fill the tank with E10, it would run fine, and there would be no damage.
A drag racer friend uses E85 in his carbureted car, the biggest problem being that pump E85 has varying amounts of ethanol, requiring different jetting.
December 13th, 2017 at 6:20 pm
I read that there will be a 2 litre turbo four available in the new Wrangler. Is this a new engine, or a de-bored or de-stroked “tigershark” with a turbocharger?
December 13th, 2017 at 6:35 pm
Pity AAA didn’t test Subaru WRX/Forester XT turbos as those are recommended to use Premium or otherwise loose HP/MPG (roughly 15% deterioration).
December 13th, 2017 at 7:11 pm
#23 I guess one needs to do their own tests, and find out what difference it makes for your driving. Did you do controlled tests, and find a 15% reduction of mpg?
December 13th, 2017 at 7:42 pm
I own two cars. One owners manual calls for regular gas. One calls for premium. I follow those directions as I refuel the vehicles.
Makes the most sense.
Those who own cars that don’t call for premium fuel and are using high test are in fact wasting their money.
Follow the manufacturers owners manual and you are making the right choice.
December 13th, 2017 at 8:57 pm
25 From my experience, when the owner’s manual says “premium recomnended but not required,” you are throwing away with an extra 15% in fuel cost if you use premium, at least in normal driving.
December 13th, 2017 at 9:25 pm
John,
Is Tesla still selling Carbon Credits to other car manufacturers? How much money has Tesla realized from the sales?
How long will the credits last?