AD #2273 – Diesel Sales Match Green Cars, Details on the New Volkswagen Golf, Valeo Takes Advantage of V2V

January 22nd, 2018 at 11:13am

Runtime: 6:17

0:30 Investment Firm Wrong About Automotive Stocks
1:01 Toyota Taking Mirai to Canada
2:13 Details on the New Volkswagen Golf
3:14 Diesel Sales Match Green Cars
4:32 Valeo Technology Can See Through Cars
5:23 1st Pure EV Maker Listed on Shanghai Stock Exchange

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27 Comments to “AD #2273 – Diesel Sales Match Green Cars, Details on the New Volkswagen Golf, Valeo Takes Advantage of V2V”

  1. Drew Says:

    I have long-believed there is an inflection point between electrified propulsion and diesel propulsion. That is, diesels make more sense in large trucks and SUVs, whereas electrified propulsion make more sense in mid-size and smaller vehicles.

    Another way to think about it is based on primary usage… long distance vehicles benefit from a diesel system, whereas short route and stop-and-go benefit from an electrified propulsion system.

    Having said all that, I believe the best comparison of diesel v. electrified vehicle sales is better judged when you exclude full-size trucks. Fundamentally, I’d find it more insightful to learn how well diesel cars and small/mid SUVs are doing vs. electrified vehicles.

  2. Lambo2015 Says:

    On the Diesel vs Green; I would like to see the spread of trucks vs pass cars. As I would expect diesel to continue to dominate in the truck market while pass-cars will fair better with EV and hybrid models.

  3. Lambo2015 Says:

    Thats funny, Drew we were thinking the same thing. You type faster apparently.

  4. Steven Says:

    Who actually coined the term “Green Cars”. I guess I believe if your electric is charged by solar of wind, it’s green. And how “Green” are the batteries as far as manufacturing and recycling goes? Just wondering.

    Not a big Diesel fan, but those engines make a lot of sense.

  5. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Aren’t 3/4 of those half million plus diesels pickup trucks?

    @Sean and John, also, regarding pickup trucks, did you, or anyone see the F-150 with the Achates engine at the show run and move under its own power? I’m curious about whether this is viable tech, or mostly not.

  6. John McElroy Says:

    5. Kit, Yes most diesel sales are in pickups, crossovers and SUVs, which accounted for 65% of all sales last year.

    We did see the Achates engine in the F-150 and will have both the truck and the president of Achates in the studio for Autoline After Hours later this year.

  7. Drew Says:

    Kit, I wonder about the various attributes of an Achates-equipped engine. I assume it is well-balanced (free from vibration) . But does it have good torque and linear power?

  8. Kit Gerhart Says:

    6 Thanks, John, for info. That will be an interesting discussion with Achates.

    7 I’d think it should be well balanced and smooth, but might be noisy, with those big gears connecting the two crankshafts together. We should know more after the AAH show.

  9. Chuck Grenci Says:

    I am glad that Achates has finally come to fruition (so many predictions/innovations/proclamations) have a date almost always in the future, (and some/most just don’t make it) and are soon forgotten.

    On fuel cells infrastructure, it’s a tired story; there are so many different sources pining for domination (or even acceptance) I believe it is diluting some economies of scale. Gas, gasoline (multiple grades/ethanol), diesel, electric, LPG and others; too much wasted redundancy, and probably too expensive to have all or the majority of each at energy provider’s stations.

  10. Bob Wilson Says:

    Can we get 2017 sales by model like Jeff Cobb’s December 2017 dashboard (see link.)

    347,022 – hybrids
    72,938 – plug-in hybrids
    84,247 – EVs
    1,082 – fool cell vehicles
    505,289 – total

    116,575 – diesels

    The efficient car numbers are close enough. So it looks like there are a missing chunk of diesels, 553,879 – 116,575 = 437,304. Were those construction, mining, and farming equipment that does not drive on the roads? If we could just get the diesel makes and models, we could understand what those missing ones might be.

    Bob Wilson

  11. Al Carlson Says:

    See AAH 264 for up date on the Achates engine

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The missing diesels would be the “heavy duty” pickup trucks. Only the “light duty” Ram 1500 and Colorado/Canyon diesels are listed in the Dashboard.

  13. Brett Cammack Says:

    #10
    “fool cell vehicles” just may be the best typo ever. LOL

  14. Bob Wilson Says:

    #4, Steven, the May 2017 report (see link) “The Life Cycle Energy Consumption and Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Lithium-Ion Batteries” by Mia Romare, Lisbeth Dahllöf, IVL Swedish Environmental Research Institute reports “Energy use for battery manufacturing with current technology is about 350 – 650 MJ/kWh battery.”

    Using the most anti-battery value, 650 Mj/kWh and gasoline energy per gallon, it comes in at ~5 gallons to provide ~4 miles of EV … on the first charge. Then the next day we put 0.045 gallons of electricity for another ~4 miles. After 365 charge cycles that 1 kWh is up to 68.1 MPG. After 8,000 miles, 84.2 MPG. Double that if you get an extra free charging at work or shopping. Double it again if the smaller, 350 Mj/kWh, is what a particular battery takes.

    The “green” are the dollars that stay in my wallet instead of burnt offerings to the oil industry.

    Bob Wilson, Huntsville AL

  15. John McElroy Says:

    10. Bob, the diesel numbers we reported are from Wards Auto. They do not include off-road equipment. But they do include F-250 & 350; Silverado 2500 & 3500; Ram 2500 & 3500 as well as Transit, Savanna, Express, Promaster and Sprinter vans.

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    #13 Bob, Interesting report. Do you know of any similar information for NiMH batteries, in my earlier Prius?

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14, John, do you have any sales numbers on the Promaster and Express/Savanah diesels? I’d think those big vans would be pretty slow, and not that good on fuel, even empty, with those 2.8-3.0 liter 4 cylinder oil burners.

  18. Bob Wilson Says:

    14. John, thanks! I’ll share it with Jeff Cobb’s team for his monthly Dashboard report.

    15. Kit, I haven’t looked for NiMH data in part because it is rapidly disappearing from the efficient car market. Sad too because I really like NiMH chemistry that built properly won’t lose capacity over time and is much safer.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    17 Thanks for info. Yeah, I’ll be very surprised if the lithium batteries in the new Prius are still “like new” after 8 years, as the NiMH batteries were in the 2010 Prius.

  20. David Sprowl Says:

    I was at NAIAS on Sat. It was not as crowded in years past. As far as CES cutting into the show, I dunno. My own thoughts are OEM’s are no longer dictating their own content, the top 12 suppliers are. Most consumers could care less about tech they can’t see. Nothing exciting about the 10 speed transmission, but customer contact points elicit emotions. But since OEM’s are in a race to get drivers out driving in the same manner they got mechanics out from under the hood, few left have in emotional interest in that big purchase. I think that is why the attendance is down.

  21. Ctech Says:

    If you want to increase interest at the Detroit Auto show then the automakers (and suppliers) need more compelling dream vehicles and more whimsical displays. Bring back Freddie Ford with a facelift!!

  22. Lambo2015 Says:

    I think many people are drawn to the auto show for the concepts and futuristic designs. They want first look at whats coming down the road and the last couple autoshows I attended I was sadly disappointed to find it was nothing more than a trip to area dealerships. I mean sure new stuff comes out each year and a new production vehicle can be exciting. But I can also run to the dealership in a few months and see those vehicles. People want to see where transportation is heading. If some of the vehicles that have appeared on this show like the conceptual flying cars and such that is what draws interest not the newly revised Accord. IMO

  23. Ukendoit Says:

    The auto shows used to have great fanciful concept cars to draw people in. In the 90s, the concept cars (mainly Chrysler) actually made it into production just a few years after being shown. That kind of excitement and potential to actually own that cool stuff could get people to attend, but now-a-days we know we won’t see that excitement. Now, all the interest is the technology in the cockpit, but much of the vehicles in the halls are not even powered so you can’t get a feel for what tech it has. You wait in line to get to sit in a vehicle much like what is out in the parking lots and don’t get much of an “experience” with the battery disconnected. My suggestion (besides wild concepts) is to have a row of powered cockpits; actual driver & passenger seats with a powered dash built to the same size/specs as the vehicles. Many more people could get in & out quicker, get the tech experience and feel for the cockpit, then if interested in the real car they can check it out there too without the big lines.

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I saw one of my favorite concept cars ever, the Chrysler Atlantic, at a local “cruise in” at the Chryslet plants in Kokomo, Indiana. The car was at the Kokomo event a year or two after it was shown initially at one of the major shows.

    https://goo.gl/images/K8APcp

  25. David Sprowl Says:

    Great car Kit Gerhart

  26. Ukendoit Says:

    That was one of my favorites too, Kit. They had a string of hits in the 90s from the Viper to the Chronos. One year they had the Atlantic, Chronos, and the Phaeton all on display, but of course all locked. The Phaeton having the top down, my friends and I reached over the ropes and unlocked it. We each sat in it for several minutes before getting yelled at! It was very comfortable and well put together for a concept car. I believe I read somewhere that the seat structure came from the Grand Cherokee.
    http://www.carstyling.ru/en/car/1997_chrysler_phaeton/

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    In addition to stunning looks, those ’90′s Chrysler concept cars had proper engines, for the period they emulated. The Atlantic had a straight 8, made from two Neon 2.0 fours. The Phaeton had a V12 made from 2.7 V6′s. I’m sure both engines were far from production ready, but they could at least drive the cars around a parking lot, and the Atlantic had the right sound.