AD #2278 – Porsche Is On A Mission E, Munro Tears Into A Tesla, Daytona 24 Sets New Record
January 29th, 2018 at 11:31am
Runtime: 9:05
0:30 German Automakers Accused of Testing on Humans
1:17 California Wants to Boost EV Spending
1:48 Ford Earns Peanuts in China
2:57 Porsche Is On A Mission E
3:31 Mercedes Electrifies Commercial Vans
4:08 Daytona 24 Sets New Record
5:23 Munro Tears Into A Tesla
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On today’s show…German automakers are rocked by accusations of testing exhaust emissions on monkeys and humans…we’ve got more details on Porsche’s Mission E electric car…and we’ll show you some never seen before details on Tesla’s Model 3. All that and more coming right up on Autoline Daily.
This is Autoline Daily the voice of the automotive industry.
BREATHE DEEP
The German diesel scandal just won’t go away. The New York Times reports that Volkswagen, BMW and Daimler commissioned experiments on monkeys, exposing them to diesel fumes. As if that was bad enough a report from Germany revealed that the same group performed similar tests on humans. About 25 people had to breathe diesel exhaust during a study conducted by Aachen University in Germany. The university defended the trial and said it was approved by an independent ethics board. However, a number of politicians have condemned the tests and are calling for an investigation. It’s not known if the automakers were aware of the tests but they have promised to perform internal investigations into the allegations.
WANT AN EV? GET A CHECK!
To boost sales of zero-emission vehicles, California Governor Jerry Brown proposed a $2.5 billion-dollar plan to extend subsidies for ZEVs and expand the state’s network of EV and hydrogen stations. By 2030, California aims to have 5 million ZEVs on its roads. That means 40% of all vehicles sold will need to be emission free, up from 5% today. The proposal still needs to be approved by the legislature.
FORD EARNS PEANUTS IN CHINA
Even though the Chinese market is booming, the Ford Motor Company is struggling there. Last year sales were down and it lost market share. And now Reuters reports that Ford’s top executive in China, Jason Luo, is leaving his post after only 5 months on the job. Ford says it has to do with personal reasons, and not his performance or business results. In the fourth quarter last year, Ford sold 452,000 vehicles in the Asia-Pacific region, mostly in China. But it only made a $5 million profit. To put that in perspective we calculate that Ford makes that much profit in one shift, at one assembly plant making F-series trucks.
Coming up next, more EV news from Porsche and Mercedes.
PORSCHE IS ON A MISSION E
Porsche is tapping into knowledge gained from its hybrid Le Mans race car for its upcoming all-electric car, the Mission E. Like the track car, it will have an 800-volt system, which is double that of current systems and will feed into lithium-ion batteries. When paired with a new accumulator-type 800-volt charger, which is still in the prototype phase, Porsche claims the car can get 400-kilometers or about 250-miles of range in just 20 minutes. The Mission E is scheduled to come out sometime in 2019.
MERCEDES ELECTRIFIES COMMERCIAL VANS
And speaking of electrified vehicles, Mercedes says it will electrify its entire commercial model lineup. You can already order an electrified version of the Vito van, which will be delivered in the second half of this year and the automaker just announced the third-generation of Sprinter van will also be electrified and should come out in 2019. We’ve only seen one teaser shot for the new Sprinter, but it will make its official debut in less than a week. Mercedes will also unveil the new A-Class in just a couple of days and here’s a teaser to give you an idea what the front-end styling will look like.
DAYTONA 24 SETS NEW RECORD
Car racing junkies were jubilant the winter break was over with the 52nd running of the 24 Hours of Daytona. Despite running into problems, Cadillac took first and second overall in the prototype class and set a new distance record, going 2,876 miles in 24 hours, 116 miles farther than the previous record. Ford GT’s dominated the GT Le Mans class, finishing 1-2 and a lap ahead of their competitors. And Lamborghini won the GT Daytona class, the first-time Lambo ever won a 24-hour race. We say congratulations to all, but especially to Lamborghini, which had to beat out Acura, Audi, BMW, Ferrari, Lexus, Porsche and Mercedes to get the win.
Coming up next, Munro & Associates is tearing down a Tesla Model 3 and we’ll show you what they’re finding under the hood.
MUNRO TEARS INTO A TESLA
A lot has been written about Tesla’s Model 3. But those reports mostly come from EV enthusiasts and owners. By all accounts they love the car. But so far no one with deep experience in design, engineering and manufacturing has evaluated it, at least not publicly. That’s why we were excited to get an invitation from Sandy Munro to visit his shop and take a look at a Model 3 that he’s about to test and tear down for a competitive benchmarking study. And Sandy found a number of issues that he really doesn’t like about the car, which he pointed out to Autoline’s John McElroy. Take a look.
(The Tesla Model 3 analysis is only available in the video version of today’s show.)
Sandy has also presented us with tear downs he did with the BMW i3 and the Chevrolet Bolt EV. He’s actually quite bullish on battery electrics and called the i3 the most important car since the Ford Model T. So he’s not one of those anti-EV people, but he does have some issues with the engineering of the Model 3. All this week we’ll be showing what he has uncovered, so don’t miss tomorrow’s installment.
But that wraps up today’s report, thanks for watching and please join us again tomorrow.
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Comments (31)
January 29th, 2018 at 11:54 am
Wow!
Good luck getting Munro’s finds on that hood release published where the masses can see. Unfortunately, there may be just too much momentum swinging Tesla’s way right now for it to even register a speed bump.
January 29th, 2018 at 11:55 am
The “tear Down” is something that OEMs traditionally do internally to correct little “issues” The one this guy is pointing out reflects a total lack of detail for a “real world car” by Engineering. Does anyone at this factory have any real experience building production cars?.
January 29th, 2018 at 12:04 pm
Watched a good bit of the 24 Hours of Daytona and was impressed mostly by the lack of cautions. Also very impressed by how reliable the cars are today. I think there were only 5 that DNF’d, and all that were running, it was more like a 2 hour sprint race than an endurance one. It’s been that was for a few years, but they keep going faster. The “Balance of Power” seems to be working except for the 5-minute refueling penalty to the Audi R8 for being able to fuel quicker with IMSA spec equipment. A good race even though my Corvettes fell short.
January 29th, 2018 at 12:07 pm
Hooray for Ford! They built a race car, barely made it street legal, trickled out a handful to customers, and now win races against a street car that is converted for racing (ie, Corvette). Oh, and the games they played with ACO to have the racing “season” last a year and a half, is galling too.
The GT is built to be a race car, playing against street cars that are modified to race. It’s not apples-to-apples or even a level playing field.
January 29th, 2018 at 12:13 pm
Off topic question here Sean/John. Do or will (fully) autonomous cars automatically avoid potholes?
Like any other scenario involving a choice between the lesser of two evils, I’ll assume the car will not swerve around a pothole if the result would cause an accident or pedestrian injury…
January 29th, 2018 at 12:15 pm
If “Voice of the Automotive Industry” doesn’t work out, try: “Delivering Automotive News to a Grateful Nation”.
January 29th, 2018 at 12:17 pm
Speaking as a fire fighter I also find the emergency hood access ridiculous.
I watched the after hours show and Sandy mentioned where you would access the trunk. The spot that is hidden underneath the trunk lid! You had a firefighter call in and say his department had detailed drawings for all the cars…. well, my department employs about 200 men and I can tell you we don’t have and have never had any type of information like that.
January 29th, 2018 at 12:19 pm
So would there been less criticism of the German emissions testing on humans had the “volunteer” subjects been VW, BMW, and Daimler executives that were originally responsible for diesel-gate?
January 29th, 2018 at 12:22 pm
I too was pulling for the Corvette’s. There was some (fan) accusations that Ford sand-bagged qualifying so that they didn’t get any power-reduction penalties, but that (to me) is only rumor, so I’m going to give kudo’s to the “GT’S” because they still had to race (and race hard). One lap, after 24 hours is not an overwhelming victory to me (though a victory none the less); well done.
Cadillac did well (and again, I’m a fan) though the proof will be in the pudding when they go big-time (at Lemans). I’ll be rooting for them then too.
January 29th, 2018 at 12:29 pm
I’d always wondered about emergency entry into the cabin area of cars with electric door latches. The “regular use” door latches of a C7 Corvette are electric, both inside and outside of the car. There is a mechanical release inside, though, at floor level, that emergency responders could probably get to with the window broken out.
January 29th, 2018 at 12:34 pm
Maybe they need to have 48 hours of Daytona and Le Mans, to put endurance back into endurance racing. These things have gotten too reliable.
January 29th, 2018 at 12:35 pm
Kit- doors are fairly easy – try before you pry but after that there are a number of tools that will gain access quickly. The Tesla hood would be much of the same but if you don’t have to do more damage to the car then that’s always better. Also with so much plastic and aluminum in cars it makes it more difficult because instead of prying an entire panel out of the way they can just tear at the purchase point- slowing everything down.
January 29th, 2018 at 12:37 pm
Chuck- doesn’t everyone sand bag a little? I’ve read before about the Vettes racing at LeMan, the team knew if you were too fast in qualifying you can expect weight to be added before the race.
January 29th, 2018 at 12:48 pm
Sandbagging or not, one would expect a race car that starts as a $400K road car to do a little better than a race car built from a $55K road car. I’m looking forward to racing with the C8, when it arives.
January 29th, 2018 at 1:00 pm
Regarding Model 3: According to the first responder guide there is also a first responder loop in the RH Rear quarter panel of the vehicle. Either one can be cut to disable high voltage.
January 29th, 2018 at 1:10 pm
8) Chuck, the Cadillac’s won’t be going to LeMans as the DPi class is only for the IMSA races at the moment. The cars running in LMP2, GTLM, and GTD are eligible, but only if they perform well. LeMans these days is a by invitation only event. Maybe the Corvettes will get the upper hand on the GTs this year at LeMans.
January 29th, 2018 at 1:35 pm
I’m no engineer, nor Tesla fanboy, but looking at the front hood up in the video, why couldn’t a first responder just cut the hinge at the base of the windshield and fold the hood forward to reach those cables? Those hinges didn’t look too stout…
January 29th, 2018 at 2:20 pm
January 25, a Model 3 crashed into a power pole. The pictures show the hood opened by itself. Regardless, a portable, powered circular saw would easily take out a hood hinge.
#7 Fully agree although the Germans have had problems with gasses in the past. The optics are terrible.
January 29th, 2018 at 2:38 pm
So, Governor Moonbeam is at it again. Good, more fossil fuel for the rest of us. But, I can hear him and his moon bats complaining now. Where will they be able to dispose of all those batteries? And the electricity. The electric plants are
polluting the air. But, at least it’s not the hated automobile. When will this state just secede?
January 29th, 2018 at 2:45 pm
@MJB – I’m not sure if current systems are being programed to avoid potholes, but I’d like to think they are since potholes can be a safety concern. I’m sure the sensors can detect a pothole and the vehicle could just maneuver around it, if traffic permits. And with vehicle to vehicle (V2V) and vehicle to infrastructure (V2I) communication any vehicle “connected” to the system will receive a warning of a pothole ahead from other cars that have already passed it. That way the vehicle could move out of the way far ahead of time and never have to make the choice in the scenario you provided.
January 29th, 2018 at 2:50 pm
With the proliferation of electric vehicles, or at least the prediction of the proliferation of electric vehicles, a standardized way to disconnect the electrical source via universal power disconnect (or similar) should be legislated into the production of these type propulsions. Much lesser accoutrements have been legislated to the manufacture of the automobile that such a safety item should be held high on the list of needed additions.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:06 pm
@16- you would need to know where the hinge was, it’s easy once you see it now, hinges aren’t hard to cut but you need access to them and again, you shouldn’t have to destroy a vehicle to just disconnect the power. It’s not always life or death, most of the time you are just trying to make the situation safe, a simple cable and pull can save a lot of damage- not to mention future maintenance costs when the electric gizmo decides to not work.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:44 pm
20. Chuck, what a great suggestion. Most race cars are required to have a very visible kill switch. Maybe we need an SAE standard for one on production cars. Make it as common as PRNDL, so that first responders know exactly where to go when they arrive at an accident instead of having too study an app when seconds count.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:51 pm
If German OEMs are testing Diesel emissions on Monkeys what are they testing EV’s on “Electric Eels?
This is very unfortunate for the German OEMs! These German OEMs should donate a “Boat Load of Money” to the Humane Societies and Wild-life Preservation Funds for their poor judgement!
Sandy Munro is very smart and entertaining. His firms deep drive maybe able to assist Elon Musk with improvements to the Tesla Model 3 version 2.0.
January 29th, 2018 at 3:57 pm
Maybe tbe disconnect could be located near, or with the charge point on plug-in cars.
John, funny you mention PRNDL. That was such a good standard for many years, for both steering column and console shifters, until all of these “alternative” shifters started showing up. At least they still use the same letters for going forward, backward, etc.
January 29th, 2018 at 6:17 pm
The model 3 battery should have a pyro disconnect. If that operates on airbag deployment and the rescue ream have a way of verifying isolation, then needing to cut wires should be unnecessary in other than exceptional circumstances.
January 29th, 2018 at 7:24 pm
#4, mjb, the only way an autonomous car could avoid potholes in my neighborhood would be for it to park itself until Spring.
January 30th, 2018 at 5:53 am
So Hitler’s car company is looking to the past for inspiration. It would have be easier to check with the CDC or American Medical Association for data.
January 30th, 2018 at 7:24 am
I remember a story on Autoline Daily of a stand-alone pothole detector (I’m thinking something from Ford maybe) with some sort of radar/sonar in or near the front bumper. One would need something like that to mitigate hitting pot-holes; just automatous vehicles wouldn’t steer around them unless they were somehow entered into the ‘system’. And if they were that infamous (of a pothole) you’d think they would patch it.
January 30th, 2018 at 8:44 am
Great just what we need another reason to not fix potholes cause the cars will detect them.
January 30th, 2018 at 12:03 pm
I think this has been discussed before, but with camera detection of the pothole and electronically controlled dampeners, the front, then rear wheel can just be controlled to not drop into the pot hole, thus avoiding the damage, unless of course there are two potholes that will hit both sides of the car at the same time.