AD #2459 – Auto Industry Headed for Downturn? More Porsche Taycan Details, Honda Adds Performance to Its Jet

October 18th, 2018 at 12:07pm

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Runtime: 7:10

0:26 Merrill Lynch Predicts Global Auto Downturn
1:07 Did Chevy Chicken Out of Texas Truck Rodeo?
1:59 Ford & Mahindra to Develop Engines & Telematics
2:59 More Details on Porsche’s First EV
5:25 Google Maps Now Shows EV Charging Stations
6:08 Honda Adds Performance Package to Its Jet

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34 Comments to “AD #2459 – Auto Industry Headed for Downturn? More Porsche Taycan Details, Honda Adds Performance to Its Jet”

  1. Chuck Grenci Says:

    Well, Chevy skipped the event last year as well (siting efforts in other Truck of the Year challenges). Whether they turned tail and ran, maybe a case can be made, but I’m also thinking maybe the Texas Truck Rodeo felt slighted and threw a cheap shot at Chevy (they should have heaved a ‘sling’ at Ford too). Maybe much ado about little. And perhaps too many best of this and best of that going around in the first place.

  2. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’ll be watching AAH today. A friend has a ’51 Mercury with a flathead V8, and I always found that engine interesting, especially its history. In 1932, that engine was “affordable performance,” at a time when most cars with similar performance would have cost more than twice as much as a Ford.

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It will be interesting to see how these other truck “awards” turn out. If the Ram’s mild hybrid system actually delivers, in real world mpg and performance, it deserves awards for that. Also, I think the Ram is the best looking of the big pickups. That may be a bad thing, though, for the manufactures, since I am about as far from a “truck person” as exists.

  4. Buzzerd Says:

    The dodge or ram or .. whatever does look like the slightly better truck, that said if I was about to buy one I would choose the Silverado. They are all quite capable, sort of like fighting over the best supercar, does matter anymore.

  5. Lambo2015 Says:

    I suppose it would be disappointing to hold an event and not have participation. Seems like a cheap shot at GM when Ford didn’t show up either. Maybe its more reflection of their Texas event. I think truck buyers would be more interested in CR than who wins the Texas Rodeo.

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    To pickup buyers, brand loyalty is still a big thing, at least between Ford and Chevy.

  7. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ Kit: Brand loyalty for my pickups over the decades never existed. I have had new trucks from the big 3. Some were good,some were great,and some were definitely ‘Monday’ trucks.

  8. JWH Says:

    #7 – Pickup brand loyalty may not be high on your list, however as Kit Gerhard stated, I know from the past brand loyalty was very high among pickup purchasers to the point where some states were Ford, some were GM, & possibly today some are Dodge/Ram.

  9. NormT Says:

    Honda needs to worry more about fuel diluting the oil in their 1.5t auto engines.

  10. Kit Gerhart Says:

    7 G.A., I suspect brand loyalty with pickups is less prevalent than it once was, but is still greater than with cars.

    Most of the Dodge/Ram sales are “conquest,” and especially were in the 90s, when Dodge more than tripled sales overnight with ’94 redesign. Also, pickup buyers have not latched onto the Japanese brand big pickups, though the “Detroit three” trucks are better in many ways, and offer more variants, contributing to that.

  11. Larry D. Says:

    -Another day, another horribly misguided decision by Clueless Hatchet at Ford. As if all these dealers did not lose enough $100,000s each to the promises of the Crooks of Mahindra, now Ford was to lose its shirt too, by partnering with these crooks!

    -I doubt you will be able to get a Porsche Taycan for even the $85,000 upper value cited at Ward’s. Porsche wants to sell variants for up to $200,000, and if the base price is $85k, do not expect to get one for five figures, with the minimum of options. Tesla 3 has nothing to fear from the Taycan. maybe some Tesla S versions may lose a few sales to it.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Porsche, M-B, and Audi are preparing to compete with Tesla S, but Tesla will still have a huge advantage, for those who want to take their expensive EVs very far from home, the supercharger network.

  13. Larry D. Says:

    12 I expect M-B and BMW to offer lower-priced EVs than Porsche, but another issue is that EV buyers do not want to be associated with brands that also make dirty gas and diesel vehicles. They are willing to wait in line for a Tesla for four years, but not for anybody else.

    I still suspect that none of the German EVs will be able to compete with the base Tesla 3, but mostly with the S and X. You can see it in their own goals about numbers of units they set as a goal.

  14. Larry D. Says:

    To follow up from yesterday’s comments.

    US fatalities and injuries in road accidents are not worse than most other developed nations, and developing nations are much worse than developed, if measured in death per 100 million miles driven.

    A typical year has 40,000 to 42,000 fatalities in the US. A few years ago, before the texting and distracted driving, of these 40k fatalities, more than 2/3rds were easily avoidable, without spending any money, because 1/3rd was due to drunk driving and the other 1/3rd was idiots that did not wear their seat belts.

    If one analyzes this year’s fatalities I would guess a little more than 2/3rds would be avoidable without spending any extra $, because you have to add all the irresponsible clowns that text and drive.

    To blame large SUVs for traffic fatalities is a totally unconvincing scapegoating.

    First of all there is an even larger number of vehicles, that are even less safe to drive and control than SUVs, and which their owners need even less than SUV owners, and these are all the G – D Pickups that every secretary drives, many single people with no farms or workshops, peoplw who do not need the pickup in their daily lives. Ford, GM and Ram alone sell more than 2 million of these every year, I bet this is 5 times the number of the (safer to handle) Big SUVs of all makers.

  15. Larry D. Says:

    To follow up from yesterday’s comments.

    US fatalities and injuries in road accidents are not worse than most other developed nations, and developing nations are much worse than developed, typically measured in deaths per 100 million miles driven.

    A typical year has 40,000 to 42,000 fatalities in the US. A few years ago, before the texting and distracted driving, of these 40k fatalities, more than 2/3rds were easily avoidable, without spending any money, because 1/3rd were due to drunk driving and the other 1/3rd were due to idiots that did not wear their seat belts.

    If one analyzes this year’s fatalities I would guess a little more than 2/3rds would be avoidable without spending any extra $, because you have to add all the irresponsible clowns that text and drive and other serious distracted driving causes.

    To blame large SUVs for traffic fatalities is a totally unconvincing scapegoating.

    First of all there is an even larger number of vehicles, that are even less safe to drive and control than SUVs, and which their owners need even less than SUV owners, and these are all the G – D Pickups that every secretary drives, many single people with no farms or workshops, people who do not need the pickup in their daily lives. Ford, GM and Ram alone sell more than 2 million of these every year, I bet this is 5 times the number of the (safer to handle) Big SUVs of all makers.

  16. Lambo2015 Says:

    #12 Yeah I’m going to start selling adapters from the Tesla superchargers that fit the SAE J1772 connectors. Okay I’m not but someone will.

  17. Lambo2015 Says:

    #14 I’m not sure I follow your reasoning, You defend SUVs by saying 2/3 of accidents are avoidable due to reasons that have nothing to do with vehicle size yet say that trucks are less safe. Yet if I was rear-ended by a 80k lb tractor trailer I would much rather have my kids in the back seat of a 4 door pick up than in the third row of a large SUV.
    But either way I would not want the option to drive what I want taken away or from the secretary from 1960s. For many people who people complain about driving a truck alone what they may not know is they own a boat or camper or tow smowmobiles, motorcycles or haul wood cause they own a wood stove. Whatever reason most new trucks start in the 40k price range so that also means it becomes your daily driver. So yep most of the time you may go to work in your big SUV or pickup alone. But during the weekend you need a truck or room for 5 to 7. Due to seatbelt laws if you have more than 3 kids you need a 3rd row. And if you have a family of 6 and a camper its probably too big to pull with a minivan. There is a place and need for the large trucks and SUVs and they cost too much to buy just for the weekends.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14 I recently read that traffic fatality rates are higher in the U.S. than in a number of other developed countries, and while there are multiple reasons, like lower seat belt usage rates and crappy driver training in the U.S., the disparity in vehicle size also contributes. I’ll try to find a link to the article.

    Yeah, fatality rates are much higher in developing countries where regular traffic is total chaos, and the average vehicle has little more crashworthiness than an air cooled VW Beetle.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    16 None of the 4 people in my condo building with big “crew cab” pickups ever tow anything, haul more than what would easily fit in a Focus or Cruze hatchback, and never drive them where they would need extra ground clearance, etc. Yeah, as long as people have spare money, people think it is “cool” to drive big trucks, they will continue to sell at the current 2M/year rate.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14 Pickups, at least RWD pickups, must be less prone to rollover than most SUVs, because SCCA allows autocrossing of the pickups, but not SUVs, except a few “specialty,” lowered ones, like the GMC Typhoon of the ’90s.

  21. Bob Wilson Says:

    Elon sees the competition as complimentary. His goal is sustainable, renewable, efficient cars and Tesla does not have to make every one.

    The Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf are fine electric cars as well as others whose specs and styles appeal to non-Tesla buyers. If those EVs are bought instead of another fossil fueled vehicle, GREAT!

    Think about it, Tesla has a 3 day supply of Model 3. Tesla really doesn’t have a threatening competitor … except for those who can’t count sales numbers.

  22. Bob Wilson Says:

    Tesla introduced a mid-range, Model 3, cutting $4000 off the price to $45,000. Just another step towards the $35,000 version. Web link is to Jalopnik.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22. The Tesla site now also shows a black and white interior, in addition to the “nothing but black,” which was the only thing shown a few weeks ago.

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    23 That’s for Model 3.

  25. XA351GT Says:

    I don’t know if I’d call it scapegoating, but the facts are a larger vehicle will always prevail over a smaller one. With so many people in large SUVs those of us that still do drive cars are at a major safety disadvantage. It is never the vehicles fault for it’s improper use and operation, but physics will say in a crash bigger will be better. People need to take their driving more seriously. Maybe it’s making it harder to get a license that is the answer . Maybe extremely steep fines will get their attention .

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Traffic fatalities, U.S. vs other developed countries.

    https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/11/30/13784520/roads-deaths-increase-safety-traffic-us

  27. Larry D. Says:

    22 I saw my first Tesla 3 on the road here a week ago or so, a grayish color, and it sure did not impress me. I saw it from the front, where the car has no grille, and it looks like a face with no mouth, nose etc. THIS is a problem for EVs that other manufacturers address by a fake grille (which i also do not like) or some other trademark feature so you can recognize the car from a distance. A big Tesla Logo up front would break the monotony of bare panel.

    I still do not see the attraction of a $45k Tesla 3 vs a far bigger, better in every way, young (2013 or later) slightly used Tesla S.

    As far as the also rans, wake me up when I can get a NEW (Not the old one with the ridiculous range) Leaf or a Bolt for $10k and I may buy one, to use around town. AND when I paid also $10k ($10.5 and $11.0 respectively) 2 years ago for my 07 and 08 E 320 Bluetecs, I sure do not consider $10k for a Leaf or a Bolt such a huge bargain.

  28. Larry D. Says:

    17 My reasoning was crystal clear. I am no defender of SUVs, I hate them, but I do not blame them, and specifically the rare BIG SUVs (Expedition-Navigator, Escalade-Suburban, GL class and now the X7, Range Rovers etc), these are a SMALL segment of all SUV sales, and the others are not much heavier than my 4,000 lbs midsize E class, and many times they are lighter.

    I compared this small segment vs the HUGE full size pickup sales, most of which are bought by our SECRETARIES and other POSEURS who own neither a farm nor a business that requires a Pickup.

    Pickups are NOT safer than Big SUVs. Kit said that they may be less rollover prone. Maybe when they are EMPTY, but fully loaded they can be FAR MORE prone to rollover. AND rollover is just ONE safety criterion, not the only one.

    US fatalities should be measured PER 100 million miles driven. It is an utterly unfair comparison to compare fatalities per POPULATION, then INDIA would be the safest place on earth, because it has 5 times the US population and 10% of our cars, and we drive 100 times as many miles as they do!!!!

    25 You found the CORRECT causes of the poor driving habits in the US, one is careless drivers, and more important, POOR driver’s ed. I got my license here in 79 after only FIVE one-hour lessons, in the Boston area, with a simple automatic car, while over in Germany you need to take 100 lessons! And while many fuddy daddies go on and on about how “speed kills”, if this was the only thing, Autobahns would have a horrible fatality rate, where in reality they are very, very safe, because drivers there are WELL TRAINED and PAY ATTENTION and do not drive 250 KPH while texting or eating junk food.

  29. Bob Wilson Says:

    Bloomberg revealed most of the Sandy Munro report (see link.) I hope Autoline Daily cites Bloomberg as there is a lot of meat to discuss. Otherwise, the weekend would be so boring.

  30. Bob Wilson Says:

    27 – Tesla has to be careful that their trademark “T” is not confused with “Trump” until after he leaves office.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28 When I got my license in Indiana in 1962, I didn’t need training at all. I needed to pass a simple written test to get a beginner’s permit. Then, I needed to drive for 6 months with a licensed driver over 21. Then, I took a not-very-difficult driving test in a sparsely traveled area to get an operator’s licence.

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    27 I’ve see Model 3s in most of the few colors, and I like red the best. Yeah, the front doesn’t look right. I don’t like fake things, but a fake grill might make it look better.

  33. Chuck Grenci Says:

    29 Bob
    Nice link to Bloomberg; interesting video, thanks.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28 Pickups are a little safer to share the road with than big SUVs, because they are a little lighter. They are usually empty, so “fully loaded” is rarely the situation. As you say, though, there are many more pickups on the road than monster SUVs, so overall, they are a much bigger “hazard” to those of us in cars.

    Here is some info on deaths/vehicle mile. The U.S. does not come out very well compared to a number of European countries.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate#List

    You can sort the column of “road fatalities per 1 million vehicle-km.”