AD #2496 – U.S. Vs. Global Ranger, Hyundai Names Non-Korean Head Of R&D, Tesla’s Hold Their Value Better

December 12th, 2018 at 11:09am

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Runtime: 7:56

0:28 Hyundai Names Non-Korean Head Of R&D
1:03 Tesla’s Hold Their Value Better
2:11 New Vehicle Payments Hit All-Time High
3:19 Future Interior Technology
4:37 China to Reduce Tariffs on U.S. Built Vehicles
5:47 U.S. Ranger Different Than Global Version
6:46 Millennials to Carry on Classic Car Tradition

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34 Comments to “AD #2496 – U.S. Vs. Global Ranger, Hyundai Names Non-Korean Head Of R&D, Tesla’s Hold Their Value Better”

  1. Lambo2015 Says:

    Sean: what is the average age of a baby boomer? My guess is you will see an increase in Gen X simply because car shows and car maintenance isn’t as easy for an 80+ year old. As these cars get handed down or sold its only natural that younger folks will be filling this gap. The question that really answers the question about if the younger generation has this interest. How are the collector car values holding up. As interest slips so will the prices. Another good indicator is the average age of car show attendees. Cause as we all know having an interest and the money to be able to own one is all together different.

  2. Lambo2015 Says:

    Teslas may hold their value currently but I would expect to see a sharp drop around the time for a new battery.

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    1 I’m an old “baby boomer,” born in 1946. The usual definition of baby boomer is those born from about 1946 to 1964.

  4. Larry D. Says:

    1, 3 I am in the middle. 46 to 64, assuming uniform distribution, the average would be born in 55, so they are 63 now.

    2 Don’t count on it. There were similar fears with the Prius batteries but used prices are quite high, when i checked for prius plug-ins, despite their pitiful EV-only range.

    I had looked up used Tesla S prices last spring and there was nothing below $40,000. You can find outstanding Merc S classes for $15,000-$20,000 (2012-14 models). The huge demand and the limited supply, esp of the Model 3, will dictate the used prices, and they will be a far higher % than those of gas cars.

  5. XA351GT Says:

    I am at the tail end of the boomers born in late 63. Also as someone who goes and participates at car shows I would like to know exactly where these younger enthusiasts are. Because they sure are not in SE PA where I am. average age of most people displaying cars would have to be early 60s. Maybe they are inheriting cars from the their older relatives , but a large number of people now do not actually wrench their own cars. They are checkbook players. I’ll walk up to be people ask them about their cars and most can only tell you what the person who built it did to it.

  6. Jonathan Brojonathan Says:

    Excellent show..tesla controlled residual value by guaranteeing residual on leases early on.

    Tesla is a cool vehicle. Loved your show on the performance version …looking forward to the model Y and comapring it to gm s offering when they all release to pick the best one.

    Till then im loving my bright red alfa stelvio ti sport…

    Sedans are old news….its 2 seat sports cars like the upcoming c8 corvette and sports cuv s like the alfa stelvio for many of us…

    Depreciation on luxury sedans traditionally is huge as cost of repairs on the luxury vehicles when out of warranty is also huge…

    I believe teslas S and x have a longer warranty which also helps residuals.

    Jmo

  7. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    What determines the competitors to TESLA? A model S and a S-Class are not competitors in my mind other than price. Size wise I put the competition for the model S with the E-Class or Audi A6. Not that this changes the results of the study. Just curious as to why it is always compared to the larger vehicles. I assume it is price as the model S would be many thousands more than an E class and not look as favorable.

  8. Larry D. Says:

    6 I just checked both the Tesla S and the Current E class you cite.

    Tesla S: 117″ wheelbase, 196″ length, 77+” width, 56.5″ height. Weights range from 4,323 to as much as 4, 960 lbs, close to 5,000!

    E class: 115.7″, 193.8″, 72.9″, 57.8″. weight is only 3,538 to a max of 4,515.

    The A6 is probably even smaller.

    The comparison is first with price, as it should be, it should not be the size, if it was size, you would compare the S class to a Chevy Impala!

    The Tesla S takes sales from both the low-volume flagships, and even more from the smaller than the Tesla S E class, A6 and 5 series, because the last 3 have many more sales units than the S class or the 7 series.

    This is not the first time that a flagship sedan (like the S or the Tesla S) is not equal in dimensions to its rivals. The original Lexus LS400 was much smaller than the S class, especially the new S class of 1991, but everybody still compared it to the S class and said how much cheaper it was. It also took lots of sales from the E class instead.

  9. Lex Says:

    I could see the first generation Tesla’s being collector car in the next 10-20 years as the technology improves. The one question I have is that when the predicted huge improvement in battery packs life happens will these new packs be compatible with all prior Tesla’s?

  10. Kit Gerhart Says:

    7 Price is probably the main factor in what they consider competitors to the Model S, but though it is about a foot shorter than those cars listed, it has similar cabin space, and more cargo space.

    I wouldn’t really consider the cars direct competition, because with an S-Class, 7, etc., you can just put gas in it and go, while even with the very good Tesla charger network, with the Model S, you are stopping every 200 miles or so, for a 30-45 minute “pit stop.” That is not how I do road trips, if I’m going a long distance.

  11. FSTFWRD Says:

    #10 Kit, I agree. The only way to cover long distance is in an ICE equipped car. Does anyone have stats on how many cars are owned by the average Tesla owner? Just wondering.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    11 That would be interesting to know. I bet the average number is at least 3.

    6 According the CR site, the Tesla S has an 8 year, unlimited mileage powertrain warranty, while E- and S-Class have 4 year, 50K miles on the powertrain. The warranties are the same otherwise.

  13. Larry D. Says:

    11, 12 You can easily find answers to this and many other questions on the web. I just googled “number of cars owned by Tesla buyers”

    https://www.google.com/search?q=average+number+of+cars+owned+by+Tesla+owners&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab

    and got a ton of links, such as

    https://www.statista.com/topics/2086/tesla/

    There was a Tesla owner survey in 2016, and if you took one today with the flood of Model 3, the numbers will all go down (average Tesla Buyer income and average no of vehicles they own)

    https://cleantechnica.com/2016/04/20/results-tesla-owner-survey/

    The income in 2016 Was $271,000, down from $290,000 in 2013.

    The income distribution was very skewed, to the right, by several buyers with incomes in the $1-2 million a year range.

    But for over 90% of them, the Tesla was the most expensive vehicle they ever bought. AFTER they bought the Tesla, only 24% of buyers would consider buying another gas powered Dinosaur ever again.

    PS most people do few long distance trips per year. For those trips, they are far better off renting instead of owning. because you may need a Suburban for your Family Vacation, but it would be downright STUPID to own one and commute 120 miles a day all by yourself. Right?

  14. Larry D. Says:

    PS 88% of all Tesla Buyers in that survey were Male. That was pre-Model 3 Avalanche of sales.

    In another study, Model 3 Searchers were significantly poorer than Model S owners ($50-100k incomes), and younger too (33-44 vs 45+ average age)

    https://www.quantcast.com/blog/tesla-model-3-%E2%80%92-an-electric-car-for-the-masses-or-still-the-select-few/

    I would bet the average Tesla Model 3 Buyer has less than 2 cars.

  15. Larry D. Says:

    11, 12 You can easily find answers to this and many other questions on the web. I just googled “number of cars owned by Tesla buyers”

    https://www.google.com/search?q=average+number+of+cars+owned+by+Tesla+owners&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab

    and got a ton of links, such as

    https://www.statista.com/topics/2086/tesla/

    There was a Tesla owner survey in 2016, and if you took one today with the flood of Model 3, the numbers will all go down (average Tesla Buyer income and average no of vehicles they own)

    https://cleantechnica.com/2016/04/20/results-tesla-owner-survey/

    The income in 2016 Was $271,000, down from $290,000 in 2013.

    The income distribution was very skewed, to the right, by several buyers with incomes in the $1-2 million a year range.

    But for over 90% of them, the Tesla was the most expensive vehicle they ever bought. AFTER they bought the Tesla, only 24% of buyers would consider buying another gas powered Dinosaur ever again.

    PS most people do few long distance trips per year. For those trips, they are far better off renting instead of owning. because you may need a Suburban for your Family Vacation, but it would be very inefficient and wasteful to own one and commute 120 miles a day all by yourself. Right?

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I searched trying to find information about the average number of cars Tesla owners had, but didn’t have much luck.

  17. Lambo2015 Says:

    14 Being that the model 3 is selling for 45-55K and if the majority of buyers are making between 50 & 100k I cant imagine they can afford a second car, maybe just kept what they had if it was paid off.
    Again this is why EVs will struggle to be wildly accepted. Its a car that can probably do 90% of your driving after charging at home. Assuming you have a home with an available charging connection. But even at 15k miles a year and 30 mpg gas its costing ya about $1000 a year. The electric might only cost $300 a year so these people are spending 10 to 25k more for a car to save $700 a year in fuel. I guess if a 28 year payback makes sense then an EV is the right car. Or if doing your part for the environment is worth the money that’s honorable.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I suspect most Tesla drivers buy them because they are fun to drive, and because the are “hip,” and different. At today’s prices, you clearly wouldn’t save money driving one, compared to a Camry or Accord, or 3 series bought used, two years old.

    Performance-wise, even a most basic Model 3 competes well with a 3 series, and the 4WD Performance Model 3 competes well with a base Corvette in acceleration, and probably isn’t that far behind in cornering. It wouldn’t do an easy 450 non-stop drive at 80 mph on the interstate like the Corvette, though.

    I’m not a fan of Quora, but here is a thread about Tesla owners’ other cars that is kind of interesting.

    https://www.quora.com/Do-Tesla-Model-S-owners-and-primary-drivers-keep-also-owning-and-driving-other-ICE-cars-day-to-day-and-trips

  19. Bob Wilson Says:

    I went to the Tesla.com, used car page (see link) and the first one:

    – 2014 Model S 60
    – $38,300
    – 36,244 miles

    “Every used Tesla vehicle has passed a 70‑point inspection and comes with either a 4‑year or 50,000 mile warranty or a 2‑year, up to 100,000 mile warranty.”

    The others start at $44,800 and up. To minimize depreciation, buy a used car.

    We own two, plug-in hybrids free and clear: 2014 BMW i3-REx and 2017 Prius Prime. Both give us cheap EV city driving yet have the long range and affordable gas capability to go +1,000 miles per day.

    Finding an occupied or broken charger, we drive on. We take direct routes to our destinations instead of detours to chargers. When we get to our destination, we use cheap EV power.

    For this retired, baby boomer, Tesla came about 5 years too late. We chose our rides in 2016 and they meet our needs.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    17 A Tesla S or 3, and a Prius Prime would be a good pair of cars, if you can charge at home. Either would do most of your driving on plug-in power, the Tesla would be fun, and the Prius would go anywhere, with 400+ mile range. I like the i3 as an EV, but the limited highway range with the range extender would not be my thing.

  21. Bob Wilson Says:

    #18 “I like the i3 as an EV, but the limited highway range with the range extender would not be my thing.”

    We can code the BMW i3 engine to enable operation at 75% SOC which avoids trying to drive on the too low, 6% battery. We can also program the gas tank to go from 1.9 to 2.3 gallons, an extra 16 miles. On a cross-country, it is like a motorcycle but quiet, dry, and comfortable.

    BTW, my wife and her dogs love the frequent stops.

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    19 I usually am traveling alone. Yeah, if I were travelling with a wife and dogs, I’d probably want to stop more often than every 6 hours :-)

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I probably should stop more often anyway, but on my 1100 mile trips, I just keep going, and stop for lunch/dinner and gas at the ssme time.

  24. Larry D. Says:

    13 said PS because I had sent an earlier post which ‘awaited moderation’ and has not been published even one day later. I resubmitted it, and it also awaited moderation, and still not posted. Contained a wealth of links to stats of Tesla Owners.

  25. Larry D. Says:

    Yesterday I drove to our excellent public library (has been voted the best one in the US, very unusual for a small town library), and returned a few DVDs. I parked in the 15 min free parking zone, and when i returned there was a shiny, great looking, blue vehicle (not navy blue but not light blue either), I had to go around it to figure out it was a Tesla 3, it was parked with its nose too close to my trunk. A woman around 40-50 was sitting in the driver’s seat and doing emails probably.

    This is a SUBSTANTIAL car. It also looked PERFECT fit and finish wise. This is no Delorean! If they remake “back to the Future”, they should use one of these instead.

    OF course people do not buy Teslas to save money, they are performance cars. Even most Prius buyers could probably save money by buying a lousy Kia Rio, depending on how many miles they do, and how many are city miles.

    The Tesla 3 is a 3 series fighter (and winner!). Compared to the one I saw yesterday, 3 series are a dime a dozen and nothing to write home about.

    Making EVs at a profit, which, according to Munro, Tesla has achieved already, is a big breakthrough. This is NOT just a fad.

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 I think posts with more than one link do not work.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22. Try posts with one link each.

  28. Larry D. Says:

    26 Here goes:

    “11, 12 You can easily find answers to this and many other questions on the web. I just googled “number of cars owned by Tesla buyers”

    https://www.google.com/search?q=average+number+of+cars+owned+by+Tesla+owners&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab

    and got a ton of links, such as..”

  29. Lambo2015 Says:

    23 Larry I think that’s why Tesla is doing so well. Musk realized being a enviro-friendly vehicle isn’t enough. All the other players have released EVs with mediocre design and performance. They have it in their head that an EV has to be some tiny economy car. Tesla designed a fairly large sedan with good looks and great performance. Then added the SUV and now a smaller sedan. All which are attractive vehicles. I think making it fun to drive is almost more important than the attraction to being green. They go hand in hand though as I don’t think Tesla cars would sell as well if they were gas even if they maintained the performance aspect, just as I don’t think they would sell if they looked like a Nissan Leaf even with the range and performance. Its the combination that has made the vehicle attract buyers even when the economics of saving gas doesn’t make sense.

  30. Larry D. Says:

    and

    https://www.statista.com/topics/2086/tesla/

    There was a Tesla owner survey in 2016, and if you took one today with the flood of Model 3, the numbers will all go down (average Tesla Buyer income and average no of vehicles they own)

  31. Larry D. Says:

    and the third part of that post:

    https://cleantechnica.com/2016/04/20/results-tesla-owner-survey/

    The income in 2016 Was $271,000, down from $290,000 in 2013.

    The income distribution was very skewed, to the right, by several buyers with incomes in the $1-2 million a year range.

    But for over 90% of them, the Tesla was the most expensive vehicle they ever bought. AFTER they bought the Tesla, only 24% of buyers would consider buying another gas powered Dinosaur ever again.

    PS most people do few long distance trips per year. I estimate they typically do one on Thanksgiving, one at Xmas, one in the summer. For those trips, they are far better off renting instead of owning. because you may need a Suburban for your Family Vacation, but it would be very inefficient and wasteful to own one and commute 120 miles a day all by yourself. Right?

  32. Larry D. Says:

    This is anecdotal evidence only, but John C., the son of an old colleague who did very well career-wise, even beyond his own ambition (instead of just running of a transportation arm of a company, he later became the CEO, based in Hawaii, and retired early to northern CA. He collects wooden motorboats from the 30s etc, and visits our Dept once a year or so as a member of our external advisory board. He was telling me about his neighborhood near Stanford U in Palo Alto, where the typical 2 car garage had one range Rover and one Tesla S and made some joke about the wealthy owners buying the S for guilt-free fun, they could go to cocktail parties and tout both their green credentials and how much fun they have driving the S.

    BTW most households in the US have more than one member, typically a couple and a few children, if any. Even just a couple, esp if they both work, and they do not live in crowded urban areas, they need to have at least two cars, and they frequently have three, keeping an oldie around for emergencies before they sell or donate it to charity.

  33. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26 I googled something similar, and got a number of hits, but not what I was looking for, the average number of cars owned by Tesla drivers. I’ll look at your links and see if that info is there.

  34. Larry D. Says:

    33 The main problem with all the stats is they are usually 1-2 years old, and with the huge number of Model 3′s currently sold, the next survey 9eg in 2019) will have radically different demographics.