AD #2497 – Germany’s Ultra-Fast EV Charger, UAW Faces More Corruption Charges, People Prefer EVs Over PHEVs

December 13th, 2018 at 11:28am

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Runtime: 5:56

0:28 UAW Faces More Corruption Charges
1:11 Hyundai Sweeps Out Top Officers
2:19 Germany’s Ultra-Fast EV Charger
3:00 People Prefer EVs Over PHEVs
4:20 GM & Enterprise Really Get Connected

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28 Comments to “AD #2497 – Germany’s Ultra-Fast EV Charger, UAW Faces More Corruption Charges, People Prefer EVs Over PHEVs”

  1. Dave Thompson Says:

    After 3 months of Tesla X there is no going back. Now with 450 kw of charging makes it is even better, best I have ever had is 105kw of charging which is about 25 minutes to charge up

  2. WineGeek Says:

    Plug-ins have the real advantage to move ICE drivers to electrics because the range anxiety goes away immediately. I think the skewing of the numbers by tesla is that there are so few plug-in hybrids available that have any sort of a reasonable range. Most of the available plug-ins have less than 30 mile range. I believe there needs to be 50+ miles on a plug-in to cover most of the daily commute, once the range begins to approach 50 miles you will see the consumers start to make the decision to purchase plug-ins in a real meaningful quantity.

    Meanwhile Tesla continues to win the marketing wars.

  3. Larry D. Says:

    Thanks John for a very interesting show today, despite its shorter than usual length.

    The news from Germany, if they can make these ultra-fast chargers at a reasonable cost, will really be huge. They solve the most important problem of EVs, not just range anxiety but also time spent fueling. If it takes only 15 mins to fill a 310 mile range Tesla, problem solved! And given today’s medical advice that sitting is worse than even… smoking, it would be far healthier for an EV owner to take 15 mins walking around while the car is charged, than a gas owner filling his tank in 5 mins.

    Nov sales, plug-ins. Hybrids were a bridge on our way to 100% clean fuels and independence of OPEC oil. Similarly for Plug-ins that still burn gas. A car that has two power plants AND the systems to connect them and go from one to the other, in the long run, will be heavier, have less useful space, more inefficient, more polluting, AND will cost more. A pure EV is a VERY SIMPLE machine. Just THINK of all the systems that can fail in your car that just do not EXIST in a pure EV! Cooling system, radiator hoses, and on and on.

    Also, people are not just irrationally in Love with Tesla, there are important reasons why. AND some of the surveys show that many Tesla Buyers did NOT own expensive BMW or mercs before, but, according to a Forbes article I found in my search, many of them owned Toyotas that cost a fraction of the Tesla S or X they chose. All this even before the more affordable Model 3!

    But I will stop and wait for the opinions of the other regulars (and not)

  4. buzzerd Says:

    also I would think the average consumer knows that Tesla car are electric but they probably don’t know about other options. Personally I see know use for an electric for me at the moment, maybe many years from now when the product is better and there’s decent infrastructure.

  5. Brett Cammack Says:

    I’ll be curious to see if the 2019 Outlander PHEV sells better than the 2018. They supposedly upped the EV range a fair bit. I’m tempted. :)

  6. Lambo2015 Says:

    Similar to what I posted about yesterdays show. Tesla will continue to dominate the EV market until the other manufacturers realize that an EV doesn’t have to be an ugly compact. Another huge contribution to Tesla’s success is they are fun to drive with exceptional performance. When any of the other car manufacturers figure out that being green doesn’t mean you want to drive a enclosed golf cart and also design a decent car with similar capabilities,, Well Tesla will remain in a class all its own.

  7. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    I was tempted to buy a BOLT but the cost to install a fast charging level 2 charger in my home is $6000. So add $6K to the cost of any new EV and that is a no go for me. There is a less efficient charging solution for $3K and that is what most people install, but I don’t want the slow charge times. Still have to add $3K to the cost of any new EV. I wonder how much it would be to install this even faster charger from Germany. It is probably not going to be cheap. Luckily I live in a house with a garage. Not sure what anyone with an apartment is going to do.

    Now I am looking at a used BOLT so that the depreciation offsets my installation cost for the charger. I want EV as a commuter option mainly because I am tired of stopping for gas during commutes. I also want my car pre-warmed or cooled while on the charger and ready for me to go to work. Especially with the winter weather approaching michigan. I despise stepping in the gas slush slurry prevalent at most gas stations in Michigan during refueling.

    Until then…I will keep on trucking with my F150.

  8. Lambo2015 Says:

    John; Doesn’t rapid charging batteries have an adverse affect on their longevity? Plus the amount of heat this much generate would be a concern to me, Did the manufacturer designed the car to see the level of heat this might cause?
    I don’t have any experience with EVs but have plenty of rechargeable tools. Each one with a specific charger and I’m just surprised that with all the different types of batteries that they can use a universal charger. (not the connection but the rate and voltage in which they are charged).

  9. Mac Says:

    Unless the Germans have found a way to bypass at least a couple of the Laws of Thermodynamics, their “ultra-fast chargers” will indeed generate considerable heat (which is essentially lost energy) as well as lithium-ion cells to take and hold a charge. Just ask any cellphone user with a high capacity battery that consistently uses a higher amperage charger — the phone gets quite warm and after a year or so, the battery life dwindles precipitously. This reminds me of the old physics canard about attempting to lift yourself by pulling up on your bootstraps!

  10. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The quick charging is a major step in the direction of making pure EVs “do everything” cars for more people. Now, we need as many charging stations as there are gas stations.

    The thing I’m wondering about the very fast charging, is what will it do to battery life. My experience with lipo batteries charged even moderately quickly, like in 25 minutes, is that they don’t last very long. Admittedly, they are abused in other ways too, with quick discharging, and probably charged higher, and sometimes discharged lower than batteries in cars might see.

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    7 I’m one of those people in an apartment (condo) with no place to charge a car. If I had a place to charge, I’d have a Volt or Prius Prime. As it is, a regular Prius is my “do everything” car.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 The EPA gas-only range of the 2019 Outlander PHEV is rated at 22 miles. A car that I’m sorry to see go is the Volt. It performs well, and has decent electric range. It didn’t sell well, though, so it probably makes sense to drop it.

    https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=41133&id=40924

  13. Larry D. Says:

    7 if you, like me, have a garage (also in MI), then why would you ever want a $3k or $6k fast charger? You can plug it every night and benefit from the dirt-cheap electricity then.

    Also, how long is your commute? If there are not many used Bolts around, you could easily find dirt-cheap Volts, whose electric range is 40 miles for the original Volt and 53 or so for the current model. I checked them out some time ago and you could have one as low as $12k with low miles.

  14. Larry D. Says:

    12 GM has lost a ton of $ on the Volt. As Lutz said, the pickup and SUV buyers paid the price. GM’s problem is it offers cars the same size as the Bolt and the Volt for half the price, and no range anxiety, and pretty good MPG already (Cruze, Sonic). Now that it killed the Cruze, it should have kept the Volt perhaps.

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    7, 13 You get about 4-5 miles per hour of charge with a regular 120v outlet. With a short commute, that might work. If not, a regular 30 amp, 240v dryer outlet would triple or quadruple that. If you have an attached garage with the breaker box in the garage, like I had in Indiana, it wouldn’t cost much to install the 240v outlet, if you have a couple unused breaker slots.

  16. Lambo2015 Says:

    14 And todays truck and SUV buyers will pay the price for autonomy development that wont bare fruit either. They will sink a ton of cash into a pipe dream that wont amount to anything more than valet parking and limited hwy autonomy. Cause if an autonomous car cannot handle a construction zone, then they will never work in Michigan.

  17. ChuckGrenci Says:

    8,9,10: what I was thinking as well; the battery may be adversely affected by the rapid charge. They say because of the rapid, and charge to full, of p.c.’s, battery degradation begins around three years (as opposed to negligible degrade when charged at max, 80%, minimum 20%) for automotive. I’m thinking that until new battery technology is created we will continue too see this deprive fast charging from working.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I have an 8 year old Mac laptop, that is still doing pretty well with the original battery, better that two Windows laptops I’ve had. I’m thinking Apple may use the “middle” part of the charge/discharge cycle, more than some pc makers. That’s a good thing, because the Mac doesn’t have a click in battery.

  19. ChuckGrenci Says:

    18, Kit, agreed, I have a p.c. over five years; does pretty well, but pretty well is not as it was new. And when you’re talking auto, I’m thinking you’re wanting ‘as new’ (or very close).

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    19 Yeah, a 100 kWh battery would probably cost more than any car I’ve ever had, except for the Corvette.

  21. Len Simpson Says:

    All the talk today about chargers causes me to again mention the EV that needs no charger

    https://www.autoblog.com/2016/11/02/nissan-note-e-power-ev-series-hybrid/ I hope it will someday available in US even tho my driving days are over

  22. ChuckGrenci Says:

    21, Len
    While this may seem noble, what it really is, is a vehicle that has its own charger, e.g., diesel/electric railway locomotive; this isn’t as efficient as it may sound. There is always a parasitic loss of efficiency when creating power, converting that power to an alternative, and then further conversion to motion. In effect, every vehicle requires a charger (and every vehicle needs a charger). I think this sounds good (on paper) because the numbers look good but these are for a very small car and would quickly diminish when scaled up. By simple comparison: is it simpler and more efficient if every house had its own power generator; no, because of economies of scale power is conserved by producing it in mass. Just some thoughts and my opinion.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21,22 It might return decent fuel economy it city/stop and go driving, but would be a gas hog on the highway, combining the energy loss of a generator, a motor, and the charge/discharge conversion loss of a battery. There is a reason that (almost) no one makes hybrid cars that way, but rather, have the engine geared the wheels at higher speed and load.

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The only series hybrid in the U.S. market is the i3 REx, which is primarily an EV, but with a small engine/generator to extend range. Its EPA combined rating, running on gas, is 35 mpg, while a Prius gets 52.

    https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39834&id=39752

    As I remember from a Bob Wilson post on Prius Chat, he gets near 40 mpg with his i3 REX on gas at “moderate” highway speed, like 65 mph, and 55+ mpg with his Prius Prime at the same, or maybe a little higher speed. Bob, correct me if I’m wrong.

  25. Lambo2015 Says:

    #22 I agree that having double power sources is a very inefficient way to power a vehicle. Having worked in the auto industry my whole life and in various components there is a common theme no matter what part of the car you are involved in.. REDUCE WEIGHT! So having an engine and a generator seems counterproductive.

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Weight is important, especially when speeds are varying, but at constant speed, powertrain efficiency and, at high speed, drag are more important. A 90% efficient generator driving a 90% efficient motor is 81% efficiency, much worse than a gear transmission. Then, you have the charge-discharge loss of the battery as the engine/generator charges, cycles off, etc.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    If, at some point, series hybrids arrive and beat Prius, Ioniq, Accord hybrid and the other series-parallel hybrids in efficiency, I’ll admit that I was wrong.

  28. lambo2015 Says:

    27 I wasn’t referring to the efficiency in relation to fuel consumption. The efficiency of a powering a car. A hybrid is added complexity and weight. Having multiple power source works but a pure EV would be an ideal vehicle if it wasn’t for the battery. It could be very light and very simple. If Nikola Tesla would have figured out how to transfer electric power over the airwaves like he wanted the EV would be a perfect application.