AD #2573 – Corvette C8 To Debut in July, Trump EPA May Not Freeze CAFE, General Motors Says No to Rivian

April 12th, 2019 at 11:34am

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Runtime: 8:21

0:07 GM Says No to Rivian
0:39 SF Motors Changes Its Name
1:43 Corvette C8 To Debut in July
2:47 Bose Makes Cabins Quieter
3:55 Trump’s Tariffs Meet Law of Unintended Consequences
6:07 Tesla Phases Out $35,000 Model 3
6:53 Trump EPA May Not Freeze CAFE

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51 Comments to “AD #2573 – Corvette C8 To Debut in July, Trump EPA May Not Freeze CAFE, General Motors Says No to Rivian”

  1. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Bose to make cabins quieter; conversely are there still requirement for BEV’s to have noise generators (for pedestrians). I haven’t heard much/anything on those proposals lately.

    It also makes sense to reel in CAFE, and as the segment suggests, keep the requirements to increase but not unduly raise to inflict major price increases (to meet these standards); price increases show no slowing in sight even without having to meet the artificially high (former targets).

  2. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The Corvette link seems to indicate that the C7 will not continue alongside the C8. Meanwhile, a couple articles I’ve seen indicate that the C8 price will start “just south of $100K.” If that is the case, Corvette will be moving into a different market, given that the C7 starts at ~$55K.

  3. Larry D. Says:

    A. GM made the wise decision to break it off with Rivian and its left-field goofy design. Amazon will still lose its $700 mill, but I bet Bezos can easily afford it.

    B. Another good move by GM, I bet Musk hates he did not exploit this, to launch the Mid-engine Vette on the 50th anniv of the launch of Apollo 11. The new and truly awesome Tesla Roadster, one of which was indeed launched in space with the Falcon Heavy last year, was a natural for this. Maybe they will launch it on July 20th, when Apollo 11 (that is, the Eagle) actually landed.

    C. Phasing out the $35k Model 3. First of all, because of the two year delay, the original promise of a $35k Model 3 is equivalent to at least a $37k Model 3 two years later, if you, as you SHOULD, include inflation. Second of all, the very advanced Tesla autopilot is vastly more worth than the modest $2k increase. But of course, the average Joe Sixpack is Econ illiterate and does not get this.

  4. Larry D. Says:

    2 and I bet the mid-engined Vette will have much less cargo space than the current one, behind the seats.

  5. Larry D. Says:

    Speaking of $30k-$35k cars and supercars: Here is an alternative Econ-wise shoppers should pay good attention to. Doug Munro makes a very detailed presentation, and then gives it a rather surprising score (not consistent with his glowing review).

    He found 30 or so specimen on Autotrader (or in my case, Cars.com) in the 30-35k range, and to me it is a SCREAMING Bargain. You can find older models for half the price, but they have a lot of expensive reliability issues.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fs1qmx0vZk

  6. Buzzerd Says:

    Those that wished for it are getting it- rear mid engine vette, hope they like the compromises that come with it.

  7. Kit Gerhart Says:

    4 The C8 will have a “frunk,” like a Cayman or Boxster, but it probably won’t be too large. Yeah, there won’t be much room under the rear hatch.

    3 I checked the Tesla site when they first announced sale of the “$35K” car, and even then, if I were buying one, it would have been the “standard plus” which had a little more range, and a nicer interior for, if I remember, $2K over the “standard.” I suspect most buyers were doing that, with a majority also getting an optional color, as Bob Wilson did.

  8. GM Veteran Says:

    Well, that was a brief life for the $35,000 Model 3. Not surprised. If Musk had not committed to that a few years ago, I am sure it never would have happened. Even so, its pretty disingenuous to phase it out in this back-handed manner. Just fess up and admit that its not a profitable vehicle at that price point. Time and technology marches on and they should not be afraid to say that its a great product that they simply have to charge more for.

  9. Larry D. Says:

    7 Frunks are really tiny, they exist in Ferarris too, I have a couple of scale models of them, a 1:118 from the 80s (308?) and a 355 from the 90s, and they really cannot carry anything. If you have stuff, maybe you should drive alone and put them in the passenger seat.

  10. Larry D. Says:

    9 a 1:18 from the 80s and a 1:24 (355).

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    6 Yeah, for most ‘Vette buyers, the mid engine layout won’t have any particular advantage. If done right, it should be quicker around a race track or autocross course than the already excellent C7 or C6, but will probably have more cabin noise, and lose storage space. Also, it will no doubt have some early reliability problems, as new designs always do.

    I’ve seen different rumors regarding the transmission, a 7-speed DCT made by Tremec, to used in the Mustang GT500, and a ZF 8-speed DCT, the same as, or similar to one used in a Porsche 911. I’d rather have the ZF, because DCTs are something new to Tremec. It sounds like the C8 will not offer a manual.

  12. GM Veteran Says:

    #3, Sorry Larry, but the Tesla Roadster that was launched into space was not the new model (if it ever makes it to market). It was a 2008 model Roadster and was Elon’s personal commuter car for some time.

  13. Lambo2015 Says:

    2 I would guess GM will launch the mid-engine Corvette with a high sticker price to gather that extra cash from those that have to among the first to own one. They probably expect collectors and enthusiasts to justify the increase. Then when sales start to drop off they can lower the price to 70 or 80k and still be making money.

  14. Larry D. Says:

    5 a much shorter and far more entertaining review of same vehicle:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAqaGwwHlfM

    The reviewer is dazzled by it, but concludes, “If you want perfection, go buy an S class, or marry your accountant”

  15. Larry D. Says:

    12 OK, it really does not matter, but thanks for the info.

  16. GEORGE RICCI Says:

    One of the design requirements for last several generations of Corvettes has been that they have enough cargo space to carry a golf bag. So I would expect that to continue with the C8.

    So now we know for sure that the era of the front engine Corvette is over, what will all the new space at the Corvette factory be used for? A Cadillac version of the C8 or ?

  17. XA351GT Says:

    Dear Autoline, John ,Sean and crew. How much more of the childish name calling and personal attacks do the rest of us have to put up with? I’ve been a follower of this page from day 1 . I don’t know how much more I’m willing to read of the daily insults by our self appointed genius who graces us with his infinite wisdom on all things automotive ,especially if you utter the word Tesla.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    9 The only frunk I’ve seen “in person,” other than in a VW Beetle, is a Porsche Boxter. It has room for a standard airline carry on bag, with room to spare for some loose, or soft stuff around it.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    16 A Cadillac version of the C8, or maybe other lower volume cars that have been made at Detroit-Hamtamck?

  20. Larry D. Says:

    17 YOU are the one making the false charges and the insults. Try contributing something of Value to the discussion and refute what you disagree with with FACTS and Logical arguments, as so many others do. As far as Tesla, when I started posting here recently, it was a Hatefest, irrational and fact-free conspiracy theories, which were ALL proven to be garbage by the stellar success of this AMERICAN Company which not only dominates the veterans in the Luxury and mid-priced segment in the US, but, amazingly, overseas too, and you just can’t bear it.

    Are you a Dealer, by any chance, and hate Tesla because it does not let you do your job (middleman)? If not, why would you hate such a company so much? Do you need professional help?

  21. Buzzerd Says:

    @17, I just pretend he/she doesn’t exist. I’m in my happy place.

  22. Brett Cammack Says:

    I remember seeing years ago on a show called “Beyond 200″ (many years ago, actually) a segment about how Lotus had developed a noise cancellation technology that could also substitute alternative cabin sounds corresponding to throttle, clutch, brake and gear application. The reporter was driving one of those super cheap economy boxes from the 80s and flipped the selector from “Off” to “On” to “Porsche 911″ to “Ferrari 308″ to “Shelby Cobra”, with the sound inside the cabin responding in kind.

    My thought was, “Man, would that be great! You can drive a sh*tbox like a loon and nobody’s going to notice that you’re having a blast driving a “Ferrari” inside.”

  23. GEORGE RICCI Says:

    22, Check this out for your cigarette lighter. https://www.soundracer.se/?p=98

  24. BobD Says:

    Steel tariffs — I’m not sure this should be classified as the “Law of Unintended Consequences” with US mills just raising the price to match the post-tariff imported steel. There were lots of economists that clearly stated this would be the result. If you were running a US mill, would you maintain the same volume and increase the price by 25% to make an immediate windfall profit? Or would maintain the pre-tariff price and invest significant capital to build new or re-open mothball mills (and hire lots of new expensive workers) to eventually increase volume to meet the demand, only for the tariffs to go away with a stroke of the pen in a year and the mill left holding the bag. I think this is more of the “Law of Predicted Outcome from Ill-advised Tariffs”.

  25. XA351GT Says:

    20 your post illustrated my point exactly thank you.

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The first I remember hearing about electronic noise cancellation was with the first Accord hybrid, made in the mid-2000s, with a V6. A co-worker’s daughter had one, and the cancellation failed, and it was noisy enough that they spent a few hundred dollars to fix it. Apparently Honda left out some of the conventional noise reduction stuff that a regular Accord had, or it wouldn’t have been noisy enough they they would have had it fixed.

  27. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I don’t know how that 100k price for the C8 got any legs; leaked, and much more credible figures on the starting price of the new Corvette generally agree on a low 60k figure (to start). I saw 100k on the Autoweek blog so maybe they’re the culprit; personally I don’t believe it. I would think that the first iteration might, fully loaded, get close to 100k’s but I even doubt that.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    27 I think AW may have been where I saw the “just south of $100K,” or similar wording.

    We can be pretty sure that the early cars will be fairly “loaded,” and it will be a while before we can order a zero option car. Even the 3rd model year for the C7, I was forced to order the see through roof that I didn’t really want.

  29. John McElroy Says:

    Everyone in the comments section should treat each other with dignity and respect. We encourage you to debate and argue over issues, but not make any personal attacks. There is ample room in this forum to express different ideas and try to persuade others to your point of view, but do it in a professional way.

    OK, let the arguments fly!

  30. merv Says:

    excited about the new c8,and i liked Don Sherman’s idea of unveiling the car at the museum.

  31. Larry D. Says:

    29 Well Said, John/Sean!

    30 I am curious how much better the new Vette will be, compared to the current ZR1 which already has awesome performance. I assume they decided this major change because it is better, at least in some areas, dynamics, handling, etc.

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    27 I just played the video you linked yesterday, and it predicts ~$62 base price for the C8. Hopefully, that will be close, and for those wanting an automatic, wouldn’t really be much of an increase over the C7.

  33. Kit Gerhart Says:

    31 The ultimate handing should be better, though I wouldn’t bet too much on that at the initial launch, given that they have been refining the current layout for about 20 years, since the C5 went with the rear transaxle. I suspect the main reason for the change is to be more like those European exotics. I just hope the C8 is good from the start, and doesn’t have too many teething problems.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    C8 ordering information

    https://www.corvetteblogger.com/2019/03/23/2020-corvette-ordering-documents-leaked-online-detail-c8-equipment-colors-and-options/

  35. ChuckGrenci Says:

    34, Interesting link, still a wait and see but some nice to know info and some of this confirms rumors that have been flying around for months.

  36. Kit Gerhart Says:

    In some ways, that order looks like an April Fool’s joke, red interior with yellow seat belts. I didn’t look over the whole thing too closely, but when I ordered my car, you had to pay a few hundred extra for a “color over-ride” if you ordered strange combinations. I didn’t see that shown in this order.

  37. Larry D. Says:

    Latest issue of CR tests three fat breadvans I could care less about, and surprisingly only the Ford is any good, (the Edge) while CR not only gives quite low marks on the latest alphanumeric Caddy (XT4 or whatever), it also buries its longtime favorite the RAV4 which tried to look more macho (with pitiful results) by sacrificing interior room etc.

  38. Larry D. Says:

    https://electrek.co/2019/04/13/tesla-model-3-longevity-claims-elon-musk/?fbclid=IwAR0Xvuf7niFOuHTlpFshyxa4PZ2szFM_3FSiXRtSGi0gRlB_rGr3RigcaBQ

    And this about the longevity of the batteries and the vehicles themselves.

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    37 I saw the article a few days ago, and it sounds like the Rav4 is a rare case where the new one is not as good as the old one. The new one sure looks a lot worse.

    As far as the XT4, its “road test” score was similar to much of its competition, like BMW X1, but the early reliability has been bad. All of those “premium brand” smallish crossovers are a bad buy.

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    38. When Elon talks about a Model 3 lasting a million miles, and the battery lasting “up to 500K miles,” I suspect he is making some assumptions, like:
    1) The car will not be used where there is road salt or sea spray.
    2) The miles will be put on quickly and on mostly good road surfaces.

    Time will tell, but it is highly unlikely that a Model 3 will last even 300K miles, driven year round in Michigan, at 12K miles a year.

  41. Larry D. Says:

    40 after I posted the link I realized it was not a recent one, probably dates from 2017 when Tesla employees and other select customers got their first Model 3s.

    39 my next door neighbor had a series of Rav4s, the one I see on the driveway is the previous one, and it also does not get any prizes, esp the front end which has the usual weird Toyota styling and from some angles looks like a small landing craft or amphibian vehicle. The first RAV4 ever was also not good looking but the next one was decent, smooth styling etc. The Edge looks good exterior-wise and is much cheaper than the Caddy if I remember well.

    I have not seen the X1 ratings but was surprised when it gave the latest X5 huge scores and said it is the best of all SUVs/Crossovers it tested.

  42. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Caddy fan here. XT4/5/6 will all be competent; are they the best buy for everyone, probably not, but still if you are judicious with the equipment you pick, a good value can still be had. Fully loaded and the value per dollar might not be your best purchase option but so goes with a lot premium purchases. I am a ‘happy camper’ with my XT5 (luxury model with Bose/nav at 48k back mid year’16)

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    41 The current X1 is on the same transverse engine, front drive based platform as the Mini Countryman. The Mini is a better buy.

    The XT4 got a better “road test” score from CR than most of its competitors, but scored low overall because of reliability survey results. All vehicles, whether from premium or mainstream brands, vary a lot in value, depending on how you equip them. My Corvette with an MSRP of about $57K was a good value, for the performance, but one loaded to an MSRP of $75K with mostly non-functional options, would be less so.

  44. Larry D. Says:

    Several luxury makers have promised BEVs, but what if you want the “best”? When will we see the first Rolls Royce BEV?

    https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/04/12/rumor-upcoming-rolls-royce-ghost-to-get-all-electric-version/?fbclid=IwAR098fJVUum7m3lGZOHZ9_ITWpTf6nMGY_FJFoGSl0RSZ8rszAdXGapLlWU

    THe rumors show only an entry-level Ghost BEV, not the flagship Phantom, the only car that made Michael Karesh ‘feel like a potentate’ when he drove it, as he told me. (to which I replied, no, you probably felt like the driver of a potentate).

    “High-ranking officials have repeatedly said that there’s only one replacement for the smoothness of what a V12 can deliver and that’s an electric drivetrain.

    They have also hinted at the electrification of the brand and now our own sources are telling us that the upcoming Ghost, which is currently in development, could be the brand’s first EV model.

    The CEO of the company actually said on the sidelines of the Geneva Motor Show, earlier this year, that the company is working on a fully-electric model.”

  45. Larry D. Says:

    Screaming Flagship Bargains 101

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/749491910/overview/

    I came across this inadvertently, I went to cars.com to look at AMG S 63 and 65s, the crazy 600 HP, 738 Lbft monsters with 100 luxury touches inside, massaging heated and cooled seats and that kind of stuff, but instead went to look for the more elegant versions of the S class, the S class coupes of recent vintage (2011-14 models), and was very surprised by their unbelievable affordability (I thought scarcity would make them more expensive). These 550 4 matics (or not) have over 400 HP, naturally aspirated V8, this one had a 100% clean Carfax too.

    The CL class is identical to the S class up front, dash, gauges, front seats, but in the back it has a sloping roof, probably less headroom, and much less legroom than the limo-class S sedan.

    It supposedly looks much more elegant than the sedan, yet I find the S sedan of that time also quite good looking.

  46. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It’s crazy how fast those cars depreciate. I could buy two of them, for what my 3 year old “base” Corvette is worth.

  47. Larry D. Says:

    The Coupe S class is even more surprising than the Sedans S, 7 and A8, because not only they were far more expensive than the S sedans, they were also much scarcer, for every 5 S sedans they would sell 1 S coupe.

    $16k first price, probably $15 final price, incl 3 months free warranty.

    This is lower than even the mangiest, smallest, least powerful new car you can buy.

    What a country, as Yakov Smirnov would say

  48. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It’s looking like it will be a boring F1 season, at least for the constructor’s championship.

  49. ChuckGrenci Says:

    48, It just seems that M/B, the team, is just totally outclassing Ferrari and Red Bull. Even when the cars are pared equal M/B strategy is usually superior (to the rest). While there is increased racing interest in the mid-field, and the season is still new, unless something changes (soon), it may become a very boring season. As Yogi (Berra) said, “it ain’t over till it’s over”, it may be over. Here’s another one from Yogi: “You’ve got to be very careful if you don’t know where you are going, because you might not get there”; this one for Ferrari’s predicament.

  50. Lambo2015 Says:

    22 I used to work for an exhaust supplier back in the late 90s and we had a noise cancelation program that worked very well for a while. The difficulty was getting microphones and speakers to survive the harsh environments of the exhaust system. The only problem with using it to cancel interior sounds is being able to distinguish what sounds to cancel. If you have a something going wrong with your vehicle which often times is first noticed by the driver hearing a odd noise. They might never hear it if its canceled out. Also while this may improve the environment inside the vehicle it does nothing for the noise being created outside the vehicle.
    Would love to see this technology applied to inner city construction sites and have them cancel out things like a jackhammer.

  51. Dan Says:

    With manufactures taking such steps to isolate vehicle cabins from all outside sounds will drivers still be able to hear emergency vehicles [fire truck or ambulances] responding to a call as they proceed through an intersection for example?