AD #2583 – Ford Under Investigation for Emissions Cheating, Daimler Stumbles in Q1, DC Chargers for Commercial Trucks

April 29th, 2019 at 11:40am

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Listen to “AD #2583 – Ford Under Investigation for Emissions Cheating, Daimler Stumbles in Q1, DC Chargers for Commercial Trucks” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 6:42

0:06 Daimler Stumbles in Q1
0:50 Japanese Not That Interested in EVs
1:26 Another Mercedes One-Two
1:47 Chevy Sweeps Talladega
2:22 DC Chargers for Commercial Trucks
3:12 Ford Under Investigation for Emissions Cheating
4:06 The Ultimate Knock-Knock Joke
4:54 Why Bollinger Will Remain Low-Volume

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39 Comments to “AD #2583 – Ford Under Investigation for Emissions Cheating, Daimler Stumbles in Q1, DC Chargers for Commercial Trucks”

  1. Jonathan Brown Says:

    Pretty riske reaction on pretend joke on owner….I’m.fine with it but wow I was surprised you ayed it on the air. We certainly all been there in life..hehehe.. great show and Mercedes drop in sales is in my opinion a direct result of Tesla’s success…JMO

  2. Larry D. Says:

    1 I agree, and wonder if BMW has suffered an even bigger loss, esp in its 3 and 4 series segment, with the mass sales of the Model 3, which just beat the pants off the M3 in this Top Gear Track Video:

  3. Larry D. Says:

    in your other news:

    A. Nissan makes junk cars and junk Leaf Batteries. Tell me something new.

    B. Knock-knock. If I was the owner of the truck, the imbecile prankster would also have a well-deserved broken nose.

    C. Bollinger. I am not as enamored of this amateur as John is. Bollinger has a degree in fine arts (design). He has no clue about engineering OR management. Those who give him $ will lose it all. Unless if he is spending his trust fund $, in which case no harm done.

  4. Kit Gerhart Says:

    There seems to be a lot of evidence that Ford is misstating fuel economy for some of the “ecoboost” turbo engine applications. In both CR’s fuel economy tests, and in some other reports of real world fuel economy, the Fords do worse in real-world mpg relative to their EPA numbers than many other vehicles.

  5. Kit Gerhart Says:

    2, BMW 3- and 4-series sales have been down to about half the ~140K volume of 2014-2015.

  6. Larry D. Says:

    4 and most of this was done under the crooked “leadership” of Ford’s “Fuel Econ Czar”, that guy Nair who got kicked out of Ford recently for other reasons (probably me too stuff).

  7. Phred Says:

    You mentioned Elio, the three wheel commuter car start-up. What happened to this company? I have not heard of one delivery to the “All In” buyers!!

  8. Larry D. Says:

    7 Elio was a total, worthless joke from day one. a $8k one-seater with no trunk that was truly unsafe at any speed, as it did not have to satisfy car safety standards (it pretends to be a bike)

  9. Larry D. Says:

    5 thanks, no surprise there.


    4) In my Eco-Boost F150 I am getting substantially less fuel economy than what ford states. Even driving it with low RPM and keeping the turbo off boost never got to where Ford states it should be. If it wasn’t a lease I would be livid. Luckily I will be replacing it soon with a model that will be more fuel efficient and likely not a turbo.

  11. Larry D. Says:

    10 A former colleague bought a base Mustang couple years ago, new, for $37k, it had the 4-cyl ecoboost with high advertised MPG, but if you drove it like a Mustang should, you would never get that MPG. If you drove it like an old lady taking her Buick Regal to church, you might.

  12. Larry D. Says:

    over the weekend, I saw the usual huge number of Subarus in this area, but also a lot of Lincolns, which sell only 8-9,000 a month vs the 55,000-60,000 Subarus a month (US-wide). Employees here used to get a Ford discount (earlier also a Mazda identical discount) which may explain it. Lots of Civics, not many Accords, barely any Fit. Some Camrys, no Corollas, and a ton of old and newer Prii. No tesla this weekend, but I did not park in the charging floor where one always sees a ton of Volts, a few Leafs and Bolts, and some Teslas.

  13. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Pertaining to Ford’s alleged emissions cheating; when you are dealing with arbitrary figures of a vast and complicated nature, unless proven fraudulent shenanigans are involved, the benefit of the doubt should be exercised in invoking fines when misrepresentations of a innocent nature are apparent. I’m not particularly a fan of Ford, in fact as Chevrolet fan I guess you could call Ford an antithesis for me, but let’s keep this fair. And if guilty, well that’s another story.

  14. Kit Gerhart Says:

    13 We’ll no doubt hear more about this. If they actually cheated on the “road load,” whether using lighter dyno flywheel setup than they should have for the vehicle being tested, or something else, that sounds pretty serious. I still think the EPA should do the testing, and let the car companies pay for the cost. They are now paying in-house people or contractors to do it, so there shouldn’t be much difference in actual cost.

    Interestingly, the specific vehicle mentioned in the article was the Ranger. Car and Driver just did a comparison test of 4WD Ranger, Colorado, Ridgeline, and Gladiator. The Ranger has a 3 mpg higher EPA combined rating than the Chevy, and one mpg higher than the Ridgeline, but those three tied at 15 mpg for the magazine’s apparently rather severe test. The Gladiator got one mpg lower in their test. CR hasn’t tested the Ranger or Gladiator yet, but it will be interesting to see their mpg from the Ranger.

  15. ChuckGrenci Says:

    EPA Numbers are more like guidelines but some people recite them as gospel so it is an important number for comparison. Even if EPA doesn’t do the tests themselves maybe all manufacturers should be required to use the same certified approved laboratory(but not themselves). Maybe with economies of scale testing might even be cheaper.

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Yep, using the same lab, with good oversight, should be good.

    I think the tests themselves should be changed, with higher speed for the highway test, and more vigorous accelerations in the city test. The current tests are too “easy,” so they downwardly adjust the test results for the window stickers. That seems to result in too-high published numbers for turbos and hybrids, and too low for the few diesels available.

  17. Lambo2015 Says:

    7&8 Elio was actually a two seater vehicle where the passenger was positioned behind the driver. There was a trunk in the front and airbags. Not saying it would have been safe as any car because it wasnt, but safer then a motorcycle. Many people thought it was going to be an EV but it had developed a 3cyl engine and claimed something like 75mpg. At this point they probably would have done better as an EV offering.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Some of the latest from Elio:

  19. John Sahr Says:

    I filmed this a few weeks ago. You may have a reason for this radio being this way.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    19 That’s wild. If Chrysler had been part of VW group, it would make more sense, but…

  21. Lambo2015 Says:

    18 humm they still keep saying they’re gonna build it. The momentum has to be nil. They should partner with a EV manufacturer as it would probably get decent range being so light and aero.

  22. ChuckGrenci Says:

    18,21, I don’t see Elio gaining any traction even if it buys an engine from a outsourced party. Similar motorcycle three wheelers (Elio without a roof) are rare (Slingshot and Can-Am, for 2); so I just dont see a market, even a nitch market.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I see a few Can-Am Spyders, and very few Slingshots. Most seem to be ridden by people who no longer feel comfortable holding up a 900 pound motorcycle. The Slingshot may need to switch engines soon. I read somewhere that they had about used up their supply of Pontiac Solstice powertrains.

  24. Larry D. Says:

    17 I don’t have any evidence the Elio is much safer than a motorbike of the same weight or price, but I suspect its drivers may have a false sense of security that, just because it has them enclosed in its thin sheetmetal, it is as safe as a lightweight car that has to satisfy all the safety reqs in the US.

    15 EPA numbers are very poor guidelines for many comparisons, even just for comparison and knowing that their absolute values are rarely accurate. The whole test needs to be a much more scientific, real world test, not in the lab and adding arbitrary correction coefficients, AND should be supervised and approved by both the EPA, the automaker, AND some independent body like these accountants, Deloitte etc, who validate other tests, records etc.

  25. Larry D. Says:

    18 the article says the Elio types have been at it since 2009, 10+ years now, with no success. Maybe they should get the hint.

  26. Lambo2015 Says:

    The problem with Elio was it was conceived when gas was around the $4 mark. The ultra high mpg is of less interest when gas is $2.50. The idea of a three wheeler that was weather proof set it apart from the slingshot and spyders. The timing was all wrong for them and had they set out to offer the same vehicle as a under $20k EV they would probably have some interest. Just not sure anyone will be interested in a gas commuter. The safety portion I can get past knowing it’s not much if any safer than a bike. Obviously it is just for the simple fact of three wheels prevent the many spills bikes have on loose gravel spills. Plus the enclosure has to provide some protection even if it’s only a low speed. Either way ten years of promises has to leave buyers and investors scratching their head.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Elio, if it existed, would be going after a non-existent market, low cost, not-very-safe commuter vehicle. Spyder and Slingshot go for a completely different market, a motorcycle replacement that you don’t have to hold up. There is a market for some of those, even at fairly high prices. For Elio to have a chance at all, they should make it electric. It’s small enough that it wouldn’t take a huge, expensive battery to have adequate range for most commutes.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    24 While “your mileage may vary,” the EPA numbers work reasonably well for comparison of similer vehicles, like Camry, Accord, and Altima, or Rav4, C-RV, Equinox, and Escape. For dis-similar vehicles, they work less well. From my experience, small engine cars, like my Mini consistently beat their city rating in my version of city driving, but underperform the highway rating. My big engine Corvette does the opposite. The Prius underperforms on both, but I’m still happy with its 45 mpg “no matter what” mileage.

  29. Larry D. Says:

    28 Talking about similar vehicles… this morning I went out my door to drive to the office, and saw a nice white Ford Escape on my left, and then saw my other neighbor’s silver-beige RAV4 to my right. These two vehicles look so similar, it is ridiculous and I wonder they have not sued each other. If you look at them from the side-rear, they have exactly the same kind of rear window design/styling as well as the pillar at the side-rear has exactly the same shape for both. Ridiculous, really.

    Re the MPGs, if one is looking for a fuel efficient non-BEV vehicle and compares a diesel like mine to a Hybrid, the EPA comparison could not be more inaccurate, and it was even worse before EPA’s 2008 correction of their own MPGs. These two may not be ‘similar’ vehicles, but they are both fuel efficient vehicles many consumers may want to comparison shop.

  30. Larry D. Says:

    26 This unsafe Elio contraption would have failed if gas prices were $4, $8, or $10, which they sure are in Europe. Ask why a similar vehicle did not make it over there. The problem is that MPG is a poor way to measure fuel efficiency, because when you become better, the MPG looks astronomical, but actually is not a big deal. So if you drive an Elio and do get the 88 or whatever MPG they claim for it, or, much wiser, if you drive a 2014 Merc E class diesel with its unreal 435 MPG Hwy, and that from an ultra-safe, luxurious 5 seater family car with a huge trunk, which looks like a million bucks inside and outside, and which you can ALSO get for a similar amount (no more than $15k), the savings in gas $ are NOT as huge as they seem! The correct way is to measure Efficiency in Gallons per mile, or liters per 100 km, and then the more fuel efficient vehicles are not as impressive.

  31. Larry D. Says:

    30 correction I meant its unreal 45, not.. 435, MPG HWY, for the 2014 E Bluetec diesel, in CR tests.

    Sean, John, how difficult would it be to adjust this comment page so we can edit our posts before they are published, as we are able to do in all the other forums on the Web?

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 Yep, comparing diesels and hybrids is the ultimate case of EPA mpg numbers not being good for comparison. My 2004 Jetta TDI wagon, and 2010 Prius got very similar real world highway mpg, and the Jetta got within about about 20% of the Prius for my version of mixed/city driving. The EPA numbers don’t reflect that.

    Of course, actual operating cost was much higher for the Jetta, because diesel fuel cost 30-40% more than gas for most of the time I had the VW.

  33. Kit Gerhart Says:

    31, CR got 35 highway, and 24 city for your car. It’s not 45, but still great for a car like that, and it turned a decent 8 second 0-60 time.

  34. Larry D. Says:

    33 I was not talking about my car, which is a 2007 and a 2008 in the old country, but specifically about the 2014 Bluetec, which does not have my 3.0 lt 6 but a 2.1 lt 4. I remember distinctly a CR issue where they tested that one and got 45, not 35, HWy and similarly impressive city MPG.

    I also have Michael K., a friend and colleague, at Rutgers in NJ, who traded in his low-mile, low-age 5 series for exactly this 2014 diesel and reports getting much higher than 45 MPG!

  35. Kit Gerhart Says:

    34 The 2014 E-Class diesel got 41 highway, 21 city, and 30 overall in CR’s tests. It did 8.3 seconds 0-60.

  36. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Might what was done to make it cleaner, have lowered the city mileage, relative to yours with the bigger engine?

  37. Larry D. Says:

    35 41 HWY then. From a 4,000 lb sedan. Pretty good. In 2016, when I went shopping for an E bluetec, the 2014s were asking $22k or higher, with low miles, but because at that time I estimated I’d use the car at most 3 months a year, in the summer place, it made more sense to buy the 2007 and 2008 for $10.5k and $11k respectively. But now I may be able to spend much more time there, esp. in 2020 and beyond, and fuel prices there are over $7/gal gas and over $5 for diesel, and in fact I do more miles there in 3 months than I do here in 9!

  38. Larry D. Says:

    37 by comparison, my 1990 Accord Coupe 5-sp manual got 31 MPG highway and on long trips, with 1-2 PSI over its recommended in the tires, I barely got 32-35 at best. And this was a 2822 lb much smaller car with a puny 125 HP, 137 lbft 2.2 lt engine.

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    37 The 2007 would be a better buy, and maybe a better car, as long as the road salt hadn’t gotten too much of a start on it from the extra years up north. The older one would be simpler, not having the after treatment fluid, and the six cylinder engine might be a little smoother.

    38 Cars have made huge progress over the last 28 years. A new, gigantic compared to your 1990 Accord, with the 1.5 turbo and CVT got 42/21 highway/city in CR’s tests, and turned a 7.7 second 0-60 time.