AD #2622 – Ford Focus ST Updates, Plenty of Electric Cars in Inventory, Can You Identify This Car?

June 24th, 2019 at 11:47am

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Runtime: 6:53

0:07 Daimler Cuts Profit Forecast
0:37 Tesla Customers Volunteer to Help Sell Cars
1:15 Plenty of Electric Cars in Inventory
2:18 Renault Introduces the Triber In India
3:08 Ford Focus ST Updates
3:58 Weekend Racing Results
5:02 Bosch’s Integrated Power Brake
5:58 Can You Identify This Car?

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61 Comments to “AD #2622 – Ford Focus ST Updates, Plenty of Electric Cars in Inventory, Can You Identify This Car?”

  1. Kit Gerhart Says:

    That’s all nice about the improved Focus ST, except that it won’t be sold in the US. A friend has a Focus ST, 2013 or so, that he’ll want to replace soon. He’d be a good prospect for a new one, but will have to shop elsewhere.

  2. dave thompson Says:

    Yay for another barn find always get me scratching my head

  3. Phred Says:

    I bought my wife a new Hyundai Kona after looking at Evs. My wife asked “Where will I get it charged at night? Will the AAA come and help me if I have a problem with a low battery?

  4. David Sprowl Says:

    1940 Packard 180 super 8. The side windows come down on the upper corners, the Buick windows are straight. the lower window corners are squared off in the Buick. The Packard’s are rounded like the photo….. So Packard is my guess

  5. Buzzerd Says:

    New York Times just had a story where the writer drove a Chev Bolt from LA to Las Vegas. Interesting read. A good dose of the reality of EVs at times.

  6. Kate McLeod Says:

    Note in the Tesla volunteer blog there are no stars. Donuts. Yep That’s about right. Wouldn’t they be better off volunteering at the border helping children living in squalor with no idea where their parents are?

  7. Clem Zahrobsky Says:

    looks like it might be a LaSalle.

  8. Brett Cammack Says:

    Here’s my thought on buying an EV. I’d love to buy one, but I was able to buy a 3-row, very nice, brand new SUV of the dealer lot for around $22k

    Even if I could consider paying $35k+ for an EV (which is currently an impossibility), it isn’t a good value proposition. As far as I’m concerned, the Leaf would need to cost < $20k to be any sort of a value proposition for me.

    There is a huge cross-section of our society that in that sort of economic boat.

    I think those 48-volt EVs would be great here for the metro commuter like me. I might even be able to afford one.

  9. Kevin A Says:

    Can help but noticing that EVs that are desireable and have a waiting list (ie Tesla) have high used prices, while crap EVs (ex FIAT) have low used prices. It seems to be the same as ICE cars; not something special about EVs.

  10. Kevin A Says:

    Also, if Renault is out the the FCA merger picture, why not merge Nissan with FCA. Same benefits. Dilutes French government influence if Nissan buys FCA by issuing additional stock. FCA headquarters can move to Japan and everyone is happy. What do you think John?

  11. Albemarle Says:

    I understand the numbers John, about supply in inventory, but too many people who want an EV are finding it difficult or time consuming to get one. I think the issue is that the inventory is not distributed where it’s needed. There are too many dealers sticking their heads in the sand, refusing to stock an EV and not going through the training necessary. I can’t really blame them because at this point it seems to be cash out for few sales and minimal profit. But the inventory is not the whole story on the ground.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    1940 Packard sedan.

    https://flic.kr/p/oJonPx

    Without the grill or emblems, those ’30s and ’40s cars are almost harder to identify than today’s look alike CUVs.

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    11 From my experience, Chevy dealers seem to actively discourage even test driving a Bolt.

  14. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Gotta go with Clem, ’40 La Salle.
    https://search.xfinity.com/?searchTerm='40+Lasalle&searchType=images&searchPage=1

  15. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Sorry for the link: at the link; 2nd column, second row.

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The front of the far back side window of the “barn find” looks vertical, while it doesn’t on the others. I have no idea what it is, though. I wonder if the “finder” looked for a tag under the hood, or anything that might identify it.

  17. JWH Says:

    EV inventory – It appears that the EV’s in inventory are not the ones that potential EV customers want to purchase. Disclaimer on my part is that I’m not a potential EV customer until vehicles have 300 mile range with recharging times similar to ICE vehicles.

  18. GM Veteran Says:

    I would hate to have to drive a Triber with seven people in it, if you can someone shoehorn them in. Much patience would be required with only 70 hp and 68 lb-ft of torque available!

    It would have been interesting to see the total vehicles in inventory for each EV listed. If sales are really low, you don’t need many units available to make up a 60 day supply. The number of Fiat 500e’s has to be quite low. And, I believe it is only sold in compliance states, further complicating the availability for the rest of us.

  19. Sean McElroy Says:

    Good guesses on the Barn Find! I don’t think it’s a Packard because the shape of the front window is not the same and the running boards on the Packard flow into the fender more than on the Barn Find. I also don’t think the LaSalle is correct. The C-pillar rakes forward and the headlights are incorporated into the fenders. Both things the Barn Find does not have.

    What do you all think of a 1939 Buick 90 sedan? My only issue with this is, all the pictures I can find the car has the spare tire cutout in the fender. Maybe it was replaced or fixed?

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The Buick has a vertical C-pillar like the “barn find.” This is a ’38, but a ’39 probably isn’t much different.

    https://flic.kr/p/R9QGEW

  21. Sean McElroy Says:

    I was wrong! Just figured out the Barn Find. It is not a Buick and we’ll reveal the answer in tomorrow’s show.

  22. XA351GT Says:

    It amazes me that people just don’t get it. It isn’t that people can’t get EVS , they can’t get the ones they want. Just because you offer something doesn’t mean someone else is obligated to buy it. Just like the no one wants sedans theory. It may not be just that ,but that no one offers the sedan they want.

  23. John McElroy Says:

    #11. Albermarle, all dealers have inventory locators. So if they don’t have the car you want they can get it in a day or two. They may still try to sell you something that’s already on the lot, but all you have to do is insist on getting the car you want and they will get it.

  24. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Perhaps then a ’38 La Salle:
    https://search.xfinity.com/?searchTerm=Cadillac+La+Salle&searchType=images&searchPage=1

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Out of curiosity, I searched a couple big dealers for Focus STs. No one had one, but I also learned something I guess I’d forgotten. There were no 2019 Focii of any kind sold in the US. 2018 was the last model year.

  26. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Sorry, link problem again: maybe this one; first seen:
    https://search.xfinity.com/?searchTerm=%2738+Cadillac+La+Salle&searchType=images&searchPage=1

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    https://flic.kr/p/8G8i9H

    ’37 LaSalle side view

  28. Larry D. Says:

    9 Thanks for pointing out the obvious and saving me time to say it myself:

    ‘Can help but noticing that EVs that are desireable and have a waiting list (ie Tesla) have high used prices,

    while crap EVs (ex FIAT) have low used prices.”

    13 This is REALLY laughable. As if the crappy SUBCOMPACT would sell for $37,000 when you can buy a far bigger, far better performing Model 3 for even LESS. (And for both vehicles, no more 7,500 tax credit). Yeah, it’s the dealer’s fault refusing buyers to drive this masterpiece.

    Why don’t you face the TRUTH? The Bolt is a LOSER. GM uses them in its cruise BS operation. Nobody wants them. People are not as dumb as you think.

  29. Larry D. Says:

    So 110 days of inventory for the Bolt, twice the 60 that were considered “ideal” in distant antiquity, and four to six times the 20-30 days POPULAR models and WISE makers have, like SUBARU and of course TOYOTA.

    GM went broke, but never learned a damned thing…

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28 YOU are really laughable. Yes, you can buy a Tesla 3 that is bigger on the outside, but not bigger on the inside, and yes, it is faster. A $41K Tesla 3 does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds, while a $37K MSRP (which you don’t pay) does 0-60 in 6.8 seconds. So what, to most car buyers? For comparison, a hot selling RAV4 does 0-60 in 8.3 seconds. Dealers are not pushing Bolts, because many of the sales people don’t know anything about them, and don’t want to learn new things, except the basics of the infotainment stuff. Also, a sales person can make more money selling almost anything else they have on the lot.

    BTW, both Tesla 3 AND Bolt have high owner satisfaction ratings in CR’s survey, and the Bolt is more reliable, rides better, and is quieter, in their evaluation. It seems that YOU are the LOSER, in that you think all cars except Tesla, and what you own, are crap, and should not exist.

  31. Wine Geek Says:

    John none of the EVs you mentioned about being in inventory are CUV/SUVs it appears the the manufacturers have the wrong vehicles available for what the market wants to buy EV or ICE!!!

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    31 The Bolt, i3, and i-Pace are all about midway between a Tesla 3 and CR-V/RAV4 in height. Maybe buyers want either a car, or a CUV, but not something in between. The “in between” Toyota Venza didn’t do that well either, even though they actually advertised it.

  33. Louis Fourie Says:

    The fender crease suggests a Cadillac and the cutaway close to the grill implies that it is a 39 with the waterfall whiskers flanking the pointed grille. The body side looks Series 75 to me.

  34. Bob Wilson Says:

    Thanks for the ‘heads up’ on the Munro EV conference. The web link is my trip report. I would go again if offered next year.

    One take away, legacy auto makers carry design rule baggage that is out of date today. For example, some of the attendees criticized the Tesla for not having fuses . . . as if that is a bad thing. Where are the fuses in their iPhone or laptops?

  35. Bob Wilson Says:

    Thanks for the ‘heads up’ on the Munro EV conference. The web link is my trip report and I would go again if offered next year.

    One take away, legacy auto makers carry design rule baggage that is out of date today. For example, some of the attendees criticized the Tesla for not having fuses . . . as if that is a bad thing. Where are the fuses in their iPhone or laptops?

  36. Larry D. Says:

    31, 32, You are both missing the obvious and most important point.

    The Bolt and the subcompact EVs like it (tiny 160″ long cars): Buyers will NOT shell out TWICE the price of a similar sized ICE car, JUST because it is an EV.

    This is why Tesla outsells the others 10 to 1. Not only does it offer far superior performance, in the Model 3, vs the Bolt, and far more space, and no “breadvan” styling, BUT, MOST IMPORTANT (are you all paying careful attention?) it is a BMW 3 Series KILLER which does NOT cost TWICE what a 3 series costs, actually the prices are almost IDENTICAl.

    How can this not succeed and the overpriced Bolt not fail? AND GM learned nothing from the VOLT either, which ALSo was twice the price of the CRUZE.

    Conclusion: Buyers do not like to pay twice for the EV or especially the plug in version, and the PROOF is in the SALES FIGURES.

    Do I Really need to say the above AGAIN? It seems I have said them 100 times but the usual suspects never learn.

  37. Larry D. Says:

    8 You made my point perfectly and in great detail. You explain why ACTUAL BUYERS, not “studies”, will NEVER pay twice the price for an EV compared to an equal sized ICE vehicle. IF you were in the market for a vehicle of the type and price range of the BMW 3 Series, in contrast, you would be able to buy an Excellent EV of the same size and even better performance, and this explains the huge success of the Model 3, ( I will not say “Tesla” because some here are apparently allergic to it), and the failure of the Volt, Bolt, Fiat E 500, E Golf, and all the rest of them.

    31, 32 You should read 8 carefully and try to understand what the REAL problem is with the slow selling EVs (as contrasted to the popular ones)

  38. Bob Wilson Says:

    The Munro EV Conference revealed the degree that traditional car makers have little to no understanding of the price-performance advantages of the Tesla. They keep trying to follow the Lutz claim that “Tesla has no advantage … we all have the same batteries … e.t.c.” Except they don’t.

    Tesla has the whole EV product ranging from battery cells to the fast DC chargers, the SuperCharger network. Buying a Tesla means the customer is not dependent on the ‘good will’ of any 3d party but calls the same company, Tesla, if there is a problem.

  39. Larry D. Says:

    38 I am overseas until Sept 1 and could not go, but If I did I would ask Munro to give me the details (proof) of his claim that Tesla can make the Model 3 at a profit. What were his underlying assumptions, like units sold per year etc?

  40. Larry D. Says:

    8 Re the 48 volt, I also saw it with interest, if priced attractively enough, I would get one as a second car at least overseas, where I will be spending almost 6 months a year from 2020 on, where it will be perfect for my urban drives from the summer home (about 60 miles round trip), and far easier to maneauver in the narrow, double-parked streets of the city center which I always have to visit. I may even get one for the US, where my commute is a mere 1.5 miles each way, but there it is less needed.

  41. Kit Gerhart Says:

    34,35 etc. Thanks, Bob Wilson for the trip report. Interesting stuff.

  42. Kit Gerhart Says:

    36 Here’s an interesting test about how the BMW 3 series KILLER did that in low-speed acceleration, but not so much overall. In this case, the 3 series was much less expensive than the Model 3 performance used. The tester liked the brutal, immediate acceleration of the Tesla, but they faulted the Model 3 for a couple of the same reasons CR did, so-so ride, and noise at highway speed.

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/saloon-showdown-2019-tesla-model-3-vs-new-bmw-3-series

  43. Larry D. Says:

    42 The FACTS support my characterization. The Model 3, whether anybody likes it or not, Both in the US and In Europe, DEVASTATED the sales of the 3, the Audi 4 and the Merc C class just as the Model S destroyed the flagship sedan marketthat includes such AWESOME cars like the S class and the 7.

    All people try to nitpick on the real or imagined faults of those AMAZING vehicles, they have already suceeded, EPIC Vicgtories, that will never be erased from the books of Automotive History.

    This is an AMAZING FEAT from a bunch of amateurs in an industry where, except for niche, tiny-volume exotic cars, NOBODY in Recent Memory (last half century) was able to break the dominance of the existing biggies.

  44. Larry D. Says:

    From your link in 42

    “The Model 3 Performance.. has ..444 bhp of peak power; and 471 lb ft of torque from zero rpm; and it is good for 62mph from rest in what, I assure you, is a 3.4sec dash that gives new meaning to the word ‘startling’. It’s also likely to cost UK buyers in excess of £60,000 at list price.”

    These people chose to compare it to a vastly inferior 3 Series:

    “The 330i M Sport looks, in some ways, like half the car on paper, with its 255bhp, 5.8sec 0-62mph claim and narrowly sub-£40k asking price – but, for the moment, it’s the most powerful petrol-powered car in the G20-generation 3 Series model range”

    I fail to get the point of this RIDICULOUS, not just apples to oranges but indeed pineapples to lemons comparison. These people had PLENTY of Great Euro Sports Sedans priced in the 60k pound range which they could meaningfully compare to the Awesome above “Model 3 Performance”.

  45. Larry D. Says:

    PS my colleague Dick Y. from MIT, whom I picked from the airport when he visited us a few years ago, had just bought an M3 Convertible pair, one for him and one for the wife, for $80 US each, according to him. He underlined that, even after spending $160k for two Civic-sized cars (as compared to the $`10.5k for my “Magnificent 7″), he would only have done so after he made sure that there was an INDEPENDENT Mechanic (not at the BMW dealer) whom he could trust to do all the necessary service and repairs.

    These M3s must now be 10+ years old and worth less than $20k apiece, regardless of miles. Don’t expect similar bargains in a similarly priced Tesla S. In fact, two shows ago, I did a thorough, US-wide search for used Tesla Ss and linked all the results, if interested.

  46. Kit Gerhart Says:

    43 Sales comparisons between these cars mean nothing. The BMWs, Audis, and C-Class Benzes have been around for decades. New ones compete with used ones, and most people with a 3 series, A4, etc. they bought 3-4 years ago, before the Tesla 3 existed, are not in the market yet. Wait until Model 3 had been on the market 10-15 years, there are tens of thousands on the used car market, and sales numbers will be more meaningful.

  47. Kit Gerhart Says:

    44 They used the cars they could get, but still the slower, cheaper 3 series was a better highway car, never mind the driving range.
    45 It’s kind of too early to know what 10+ year old Model Ss are worth, isn’t it? That will depend a lot on the cost of replacement batteries at that time.

  48. Larry D. Says:

    Since you posted that ludicrous comparison, why don’t you think of a fair way to compare your beloved (yet still failed) Bolt to a properly corresponding ICE model. Will it be the Sonic (or is it the Spark? I know it is not the much longer Cruze) which it is based on? And what will the comparison say? You pay twice than you pay for the cheapo Sonic, and you may have to spend 5 extra hours recharging if you are dumbor dishonest enough to take the Bolt from LA to LV?

  49. Bob Wilson Says:

    In about 7 days we’ll have the Q2-2019 Tesla sales numbers. In 5 weeks, the financials. Let’s hold off on idle speculation until they come in but place your bets.

    Those who put their money where their mouth is can place a bet with a Tesla bull or bear fund. I’ve already placed my bull bet based on 9,000 mi in 90 days with my Model 3.

  50. Lambo2015 Says:

    1. Kit thanks for the info, not sure why Ford decided to not offer the RS after 2018. Seems like it was a decent offering. Maybe the performance numbers got too close to the Mustang.

    6. I think you’re on the wrong site.

    Kit and Larry I think that the Tesla used numbers are going to remain high due to the one thing Tesla has over the other EVs. Its an exciting new manufacturer that is doing things differently and has given them an advantage that pulls money simply cause its a Tesla. Its like designer clothes. Are they really that much better. Marginally sure but a lot of what you pay for is the name. Tesla has that going for them and people want them new and if that’s too much money they’ll take em used. I agree Kit that time will tell if they remain that desirable once they have been around a while. Which will affect them more than the other EVs which also have not been around long but the companys have been and to Larrys point they are making same old econo boxes and wonder why they cant pull 40K for them. To the general pulic its just another GM electrified. You cant ask twice the price for something that wont do everything the ICE counterpart can do and requires you to face either huge depreciation of buying a battery in 10 to 15 years. If battery prices do not drop significantly these EVs including Teslas will be considered disposable cars and junk after 15 years. IMO

  51. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’d think some kind of lease, including battery replacement, if needed, might be a good model for the 8-10 year old Teslas, and other EVs, which are generally in good condition, but have batteries near end of life.

  52. Larry D. Says:

    49 I’m not a betting man and while I think Tesla has a lot of potential, esp in Europe and above all in China, unless Musk comes clean with the inventory and the reservations situation (what happened to the 500,000 or 400,000 Model 3 reservations? How many were cancelled? etc, I don’t have sufficient info to predict its financials in nay serious way.

  53. Brett Cammack Says:

    I never meant to prove anyone’s point. My point was that the middle class has been gutted like a trout and the working class is struggling with stagnant wages and debt. The 2008 collapse wiped me out and we’re lucky we were able to keep our home thanks to a government program. I’ve been working 40+ years in computers and still am living paycheck to paycheck. At least I’m fortunate I’ve only got a mortgage and only one car payment.

    Paying excessive sums for inferior packaging is a whim for the upper economic classes, not the one I exist in.

  54. Larry D. Says:

    52 clarification I never buy lottery tickets or go to Casinos to be fleeced (that is not entertaining to me, especially when Casinos kick you out if you ‘count cards’ to get a 100% legal advantage over them in games like blackjack) where the odds are hugely against me, but I do tolerate significant risks in my 401k, even more when I was younger and had several decades to reverse any downsides.

  55. Larry D. Says:

    53 Regardless, you did make the major point that if EVs cost twice as identical sized ICEs, people will not buy them, unless they have some other advantage such as thrilling performance etc.

    And in your case you also make my often made point that the $7,500 tax credit, which would never benefit somebody in your situation (and there are 100,000,000 people like that), where you don;t pay enough taxes to the IRS to offset 7,500), should instead be a means-based REFUND going only to the lower income buyers. But what do you expect from the corrupt Congress.

  56. Lambo2015 Says:

    51 Most vehicles that are 10 to 15 years old are pretty much depreciated to the value of anything that still runs. In the under $5000 range. Doesn’t make as much difference the original MSRP or if its a Ford or BMW their value comes from condition, mileage and accessories. So when EVs get to that point and face the prospect of a used car price and a $8000 battery I doubt you’ll get many takers. They will basically be only worth the value of the battery. Making them still cost more than a comparable ICE vehicle.

  57. Lambo2015 Says:

    54 To your point though Larry I don’t think people will pay twice the price for a Bolt due to the styling even if it offered the same performance as the Model 3.
    Not many people want to pay 40K for a car that looks like its a entry level econobox. They would have been better off to offer a more sporty civic or cruze like with the performance to compete with few performance based little cars ie Focus ST and RS.

  58. Larry D. Says:

    56 I agree.

    And similarly for the Volt, which did sell many more copies over the 10 or so years it was on sale, helped by the tax credit, the original VOlt looked different from the Cruze but in a nerdy way, instead of in a high-performance way (say like an M3), if it had so much better handling etc than the Cruze.

    Then in the second generation they made both the Cruze and the Volt look like a Civic. not bad, but not worth $40k.

    TO make it worse, as Lutz admitted in a recent interview about the Inferior interior of the Silverado to explain why it is clobbered by the much better interior of the RAM, the interior of a car is all-important. It is what the driver sees and feels every time he uses the car. If you invest an extra $500 in the interior, you gain $5,000 in perveived quaity or ability to sell it for etc (almost how Lutz said it), and the Volt’s interiors were low-rent in both versions.

  59. Kit Gerhart Says:

    56 In acceleration, the Bolt and Focus ST are about equal. The Focus RS, though, is quicker, but close in price to the Bolt. None of those cars have sold too well, but I know one owner each of Focus ST and Bolt.

    55 A lot of the 10-15 year old EVs will have been used mostly as commuters, and will be low mileage, so the interior, and the rest, except battery, should be in good shape. That is, the ones that aren’t driven in road salt. As a lease, though, it would need to be relatively cheap. I guess we’ll find out what happens when the cars get older.

  60. Kit Gerhart Says:

    57 The first Volt also had funny controls, which were criticized, though people deal with funny controls in other cars, and while they may or may not like them, but they get used to it, if they like the car otherwise.

  61. Lambo2015 Says:

    56 exactly my point. The Bolt could be better then the Tesla Model 3 in every way but it still looks like a entry level econobox and will not ever outsell the Tesla on that merit alone.