AD #2701 – Uncertainty Around New UAW Contract, C8 Corvette Engine Underrated? New Cadillac Escalade Coming Soon

October 22nd, 2019 at 11:45am

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Runtime: 8:59

0:08 Uncertainty Around New UAW Contract
0:43 Chinese Demand for EVs is Weak
1:44 New C8 Corvette Engine Underrated?
3:05 Hyundai Develops Fuel Cell Semi
3:31 Renault Debuts Fuel Cell Commercial Vans
4:27 Color Plays a Role in Used Car Prices
5:18 New Cadillac Escalade Coming Soon
5:58 Volocopter Completes Test Over Singapore
6:40 Dodge Horsepower Sales Gimmick Works
7:21 You Said It!

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66 Comments to “AD #2701 – Uncertainty Around New UAW Contract, C8 Corvette Engine Underrated? New Cadillac Escalade Coming Soon”

  1. Lambo2015 Says:

    Just guessing which Locals did not ratify the contract, Springhill and Lordstown?

  2. Lambo2015 Says:

    Oh boy! The largest market for EVs is showing the trend. People don’t really want them for personal vehicles but are fine with using them for taxis and fleet vehicles.

    Corvette just keeps getting better and better. So I wonder what that will mean for the supercharged version which is supposed to be around 755.

  3. Larry D. Says:

    2 Don’t crap your pants yet. EVs ARE the Future, especially in CHina, where the consumer is NOT asked if he wants them or not, they will stuff them downm their throats, they will eat their spinach and prosper, and over hear you will keep eating Hamburgers and Potato Salads and Ice Cream and then wonder why it is a Morbidly Obese Nation addicted to not just opioids, but also salt and sugar (and this is NOT just in the “eye of the beholder”

  4. Larry D. Says:

    3 over here, not over hear (Geez).

    And as far as the infrastructure, CHina already has as many gas stations as EV Chargers, while the US has about the same number of gas stations as ChHina, but HALF the EV chargers.

    Of course, Tesla could negotiate with the majority of the states where it is prohibited to sell and develop these markets as much as it has CA, which is already EV-mature and boasts half of all US BEV Sales, but really the BEV action now is in CHINA first and will be in EUrope soon.

  5. Larry D. Says:

    And in the 6 or so Gigacities in China, ICEs really do not have a chance any more, the authorities not only severely limit new ICE licenses, while you can buy and register a BEV immediately, in addition, you pay $0 to license a BEV but if you are even allowed to buy an ICE for these cities, you pay $15,000 license fee.

    So don’t cry for the BEVs, autoline and commenters. I have said it 100 times and I will repeat it, they are the F U T U R E, whether some here like it or hate it.

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Dodge Challengers must hold their value well, because purple and orange cars hold their value, and Challengers are about the only cars sold in those colors.

  7. Kit Gerhart Says:

    4 There’d be more BEV business in Florida, if there were more chargers.

  8. Larry D. Says:

    The GM-UAW situation is becoming surreal, with spoiled UAW rejecting the unbelievably good deal. If I was in Barra’s seat, I would never have negotiated with the criminal UAW Leadership, but instead required of the union to oust the thieves and crooks and elect new, Untainted leaders I could TRUST.

  9. Larry D. Says:

    7 is Tesla allowed to sell direct in FL? In IN? In MI, as with 26 other states, it is not, but here I see a ton of them on the road despite all that.

    PS In my prior comment I meant that the number of gas stations in CHina is the same as the number of EV charging stations, not just individual chargers. Just as a gas station typically has a dozen pumps, and sometimes many more, an EV charging station has dozens of chargers too.

  10. George Ricci Says:

    On the Corvette engine, I think they should of used 12% instead of 15% (DTC efficiency is more like a manual than an automatic transmission), but that still adds up 625 to 630 HP. How do you do that and still meet emissions, drive ability, and fuel mileage with only 6.2L and red line at 6600 rpm? Something is wrong here? Using drag strip calculators (3647 plus driver and some gas =3800) 121 mph trap speed and 11.3 seconds ET, they say the car has 520 to 525 HP.

  11. Lambo2015 Says:

    3 Don’t worry Larry I’m don’t have the incontinence problems you speak of. And yes EVs are the future in China where they may force them down their throats. That says nothing about free market. When people have a choice they pass on the EVs which is the true telling tale here. Without incentives and government mandates a 58% drop should be pretty clear what people want. So as they may be the future its looking more and more like that future is much further away than you want to believe. Oh and I’m not sure what the hell hamburger’s and ice cream has to do with anything other than your inability to stay on topic. Stay focused as we all watch BEV sales drop not even achieving 10% of global sales.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Tesla memory chips wearing out.

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    9 They sell both in FL and IN. There is a Tesla “store” in the Orlando area near where I bought my Mini. It’s in a kind of out of the way place, but is easy enough to find, using google maps navigation.

  14. Kit Gerhart Says:

    10 Yeah, it didn’t sound right to me either. Maybe they are talking about a new turbocharged 4-valve engine that isn’t being sold yet.

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    10.14 Also, they were stating those hp and torque numbers before even knowing the gear ratios. Assuming they do know the actual power being delivered to the rollers, you need accurate knowledge of rpm, or gearing, to calculate torque at the crankshaft, after applying the 15% “fuge factor” for powertrain loss. Maybe they were basing calculations on what the tach said, or another data source.

  16. Larry D. Says:

    In today’s Ward’s email I got, there was an article about the smallest real Mercedes, the C (AMG C56 or something) which drops the V8 and goes hybrid, with only 4 cylinders, but makes over 500 HP. Part of a long trend where automakers go to smaller and smaller engines with turbos and ditch the v8s and often even the 6s

    BTW I was reading the latest automags and Consumer reports last Sat, CR had a test of the VW Arteon, they really liked it but said nothing about the interior quality (the Passat made in TN is not good there, is the Arteon made there too?), it’s a 4 door coupe that also has no V6 but a coffeemaker turbo 4 that makes almost as many HP as my old 740iL 4.4 V8. But I am sure with a much worse engine sound.

  17. Lambo2015 Says:

    15 I used to run engine dynos and I assume the chassis dynos are similar in that they plug right into the cars on-board computer so it would be reading RPM directly from the crank sensor and have the proper RPM. The dyno is surly capable of calculating ratio based on RPM and speed. The ZR1 engine is supposed to be the only forced induction motor dropping from the 6.2L to 5.5L and gets dual OHC.
    But yeah not sure how they magically picked up over 150hp without nitrous or forced induction.

  18. ChuckGrenci Says:

    15, Kit
    Motor Trend used both 5th gear and repeated the test in 6th gear, which yielded similar results; 5th gear yield a ratio of 0.94 (or close) and that was the closest ratio that they could use to represent 1.0 gear. Something is certainly unexplained and hopefully this will get sorted out. Even different makes of dyno’s can yield different numbers. A great conundrum at this point.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    16 From what I find, the Arteon is made only in Germany, at least so far. It’s a 4 door hatch, maybe kind of a bargain A5 Sportback, if the interior is nice.

  20. Larry D. Says:

    19 Τhen hopefully it has a good quality interior. If it had a 6 and not that turbo 4 I might look into it. But I far prefer a 2-door coupe to a 4-door coupe, and the styling of the A5, which I saw in my parking the other day again, is indeed a work of art.

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    20 It looked like they adjusted the dyno load for for constant road speed, rather than adjusting it up or down to find maximum power. I’ll read over the article again. Since none of the gears are 1:1, the same number of gear sets are probably involved in 5th and 6th gears. Anyway, it’s interesting, and we will hear more.

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    20 The A5 is available with a turbo 4, but also with turbo V6s, in coupe, convertible, and 4-door hatch body styles. The much wider choice is an Audi advantage, but you pay a price for it, even if you don’t mind a turbo 4. The Arteon isn’t cheap, though, with a ~$36K base price.

  23. Larry D. Says:

    22 The CR Arteon w the turbo 4 was $43k. The Audis are reputed to have the best interiors in the business (or were). The A5 is also offered in an even more attractive cabrio, and I believe there is a far more powerful S5 version for both

  24. Wim van Acker Says:

    @11 I don’t believe we know what a free market comparison between ICE and EV’s is. Our U.S. market is not a free market, with subsidies to EV’s AND to the oil and gas industry (through tax loopholes). Very hard to get the complete picture. A research team at a good university could probably figure it out.

  25. merv Says:

    That new Corvette is amazing. The more I hear about it,the more I want one.


    It is about time the Escalade and the Suburban/Yukon got updated. They are still on the old chassis and the new Chassis has been out for a while now. Maybe they delayed the SUV launch to figure out if the new styling language was acceptable before rolling it out. Hopefully they have abandoned the front end styling of the trucks.

  27. cwolf Says:

    I’ve always loved the look of the large suv’s, esp. the Suburban. When they get a re-fresh, I hope they don’t make it too truck-ish and tough looking. It should remain elegant enough to be able to go out to dinner at a nice restaurant and not feel like a hill-jack.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26 It looks like they will get IRS, but styling? Do people who buy these things even care about styling?

  29. cwolf Says:

    Audi interiors are gorgeous and the A5 looks great. But for me, the killer is only 4 cyl.’s around and they have two different sized tires. Then, because they are advanced, the repair costs are huge, usually right after the warranty expires.

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 A5s are available with 6 cylinders, maybe called S5 with the 6. They are all turbo, though, and can certainly get pricey.

  31. cwolf Says:

    Just remembered: tomorrow Tesla quarterly earnings will come out. Sounds like we can chalk up another quarterly loss, but who would have guessed. I don’t know why Tesla keeps investing $ they don’t have in profits yet keep adding new gizmo’s that don’t work! I were one of the silly investors, I would start demanding they improve upon the basic car, improving production and delivery.
    Some say this guy runs his business like a Ponzi scheme

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    31 I certainly wouldn’t invest in Tesla, but I might buy one of their cars some day.

  33. Drew Says:

    Is anyone else wondering if Chevy gave Motor Trend a “hot” C8…. tuned up…. but not representative of consumer production (I.e., perhaps the MT vehicle isn’t fully emissionized)?

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    33 Since we don’t have any rpm numbers, it could be a nascar motor running 9500 rpms. I don’t really care, though, if that is the case.

  35. Bob Wilson Says:

    #2 – It is entirely possible that Gigafactory 3 in Shanghai, China, may totally fail because of the Wards claimed ‘lack of demand.’ IMHO, those who truly believe that claim, should SHORT Tesla stock and make ‘big bucks.’ The alternate, LONG Tesla stock and wait for Q4 2019 quarterly.

    It is a binary choice . . . .put your money where your mouth is.

  36. Larry D. Says:

    35 0%

  37. Larry D. Says:

    There is not a chance in HELL that the Shanghai Gigafactory will fail, BUT this does NOT mean that we should foolishly buy Tesla shares as long as they are ALREADY PRICED by WISE INVESTORS to INCLUDE the CERTAINTY of its stellar performance world-wide.

    SHare prices reflect FUTURE profitability of any company, NOT their current status.

    The Tesla train has left the station years ago, you should have bought its shares THEN, at $10 and $50, NOT at $300 now!

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Tesla news:

  39. Larry D. Says:

    31 Your myopia is mind-boggling. I already told you to learn from AMAZON, who had losses for TEN STRAUGHT YEARS, YET its stock was thru the roof, FOR A REASON, because it revolutionized ITS industry. BEZOS is now the WEALTHIEST AMERICAN at $130 -150 BILL $ US, and you bite Tesla’s ankle. Good job, Cwolf! As if you will EVER get a clue.

  40. Lambo2015 Says:

    38 Never thought of that but much like your corvette my CTS coupe does not have mechanical door handles and pops open using an electronic button. I would have thought the cop would have broken the window but who knows the whole story? The one thing about the story that surprised me was his Tesla was a lease. I didn’t know Tesla was offering any leases.

  41. Larry D. Says:

    39 PS If you believe these idiots, then you have NO CLUE what a Ponzi scheme is. NOTHING like that with Tesla. You are beyond hope, and then you complain when you are reprimanded!


    38) Wow! I assume that the officer didn’t want to break the window as that would have added oxygen to the interior and cause a flash fire inside the car. The same reason that you never open a hood if your ICE engine is on fire. Even though the victim had no physical injuries, it seems he was unconscious and unresponsive. I have seen that happen before in crashes like this.

    Seems a Tesla Engineer did not think of what the fail states should be when the vehicle is involved in a crash. That is engineering 101.

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    38 I’d think in many, or most cases like that, the driver’s door would be locked, so the cop would need to break a window, and hope he could unlock the car and find the inside release quickly.

    I heard one story about a C7, early on, about someone needing to get out quickly, I think maybe after driving into water, and didn’t know about the mechanical release by the floor.

  44. cwolf Says:

    Tesla is the only game in town and owns roughly 70-80% of the EV market. They have nice cars too! So it is a shame other makers will rival them in the years ahead, making Tesla unprofitable for a very long time. Tesla should have placed their focus on making only a few models so…o fantastic that buyers will continue to demand only them. Instead they offer more and more models and gizmos which only makes it more confusing and costly.

  45. Kit Gerhart Says:

    43, meant @40, continued

    It looks like Tesla does lease, but I don’t know if that is something new.

  46. Lambo2015 Says:

    31-39 My concern for Tesla would be if they ramp up for a market that doesn’t materialize to be as large as many hope it is. No doubt they will continue to be the leader in EVs. I’m sure they will survive long term because they are small enough to make quick adjustments unlike the larger automakers. If their gigafactory can manufacture world class batteries they can sell to many other manufacturers. The real tale will be if the Chinese government is going to create a large enough demand.

  47. Lambo2015 Says:

    42 I don’t think breaking the window is going to be any more detrimental or feed more oxygen than opening the door which is what he was trying to do. Main concern is to get the person out even if you need to drag them through the window opening (assuming that’s possible based on their size).

  48. Kit Gerhart Says:

    46 I don’t know if it is their plan, but what Chinese cities need, like cities everywhere, are EV taxis, to clean up the urban air. They don’t need more private cars in cities, EV or otherwise. Parking was a mess when I was in Shanghai 25 years ago, and it would be much worse now.

  49. cwolf Says:

    Tesla is not Amazon! The car business is much more brutal, costly and competitive.
    Comparing dissimilar industries just doesn’t make sense; just like out-put is the only factor determining stock prices.


    40) The Corvette, your CTS, and even the TESLA has a mechanical back up handle. They are not in intuitive spots. The corvette has a manual release lever next to the driver and passenger seats. The CTS coupe has a manual lever in a similar place along the trim panel on the floor(see page 2-17 of the owners manual). The Tesla model S hides their emergency handle behind a plastic panel that you have to know to pull off in an emergency.

  51. Kit Gerhart Says:

    50 I learned the location of the mechanical release in my Corvette early on. I shut the engine off with the the transmission in gear, which caused beeping, but also disabled the electric release. The release stays disabled, even after you put it in park.

  52. JWH Says:

    C8 Dyno Test – I’ll believe these are production representative numbers when test is run on a vehicle purchased from dealership as opposed to a vehicle supplied by the manufacturer. Not that they would ever provide a blue printed engine for media evaluation. LOL

    That being said, I might have to look at a C8 to replace C7 after they have been in production for at least a year so issues can be sorted out.

  53. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Off topic, but my 2018 Camry LE hybrid has averaged 45.41 mpg for its first 15,840 miles. It’s a mix of everything from 2 mile trips to dinner, to 1100 mile trips on the interstate at 75-80 mph. I don’t “hypermile,” and am very impressed. To me, hybrids are the ideal “interim” technology, for a time when EVs are pricey, charging locations are limited, etc.

  54. Lambo2015 Says:

    48 Totally agree that EVs make sense for vehicles that stay within the city limits. Taxis, Police, Mail, deliveries vans and garbage pick up should all be electric.

    50 Yeah I know where my emergency release is but if I’m unconscious the only way in from the outside is through the secondary release in the trunk or breaking the window.

  55. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It would be tough for emergency responders to know where to even look for emergency releases in various cars that have them. The one in my Corvette, near the floor near the hinge line of the doors, would not be easy to find from outside the car, even if you are familiar with the car. There is also a mechanical release for the driver’s door in the rear hatch area, that few would know about, unless they have a C7.

  56. Larry D. Says:

    53 It IS impressive, BUT if you did all these miles in such a short time, they are NOT a “mix” but must be 99% highway, and 1% 2 mile cold start trips to dinner

  57. Larry D. Says:

    53 Hybrids is a bridge tech towards full BEVs, but they have been around 20 years and still consumers are seriously ignorant about what they are. Now that they get such huge MPGs even from large cars like the Camry, AND they do not screw up the trunk like the Ford Fusion Hybrid I test drove (an utter loser that got 31 MPG), they are a screaming bargain even in the $2.50 gas USA

  58. Kit Gerhart Says:

    56 It’s about 16 months, not a particularly short time. There have been 4 1100 mile trips, a few hundred 2 mile trips and a lot of trips in between, mostly 8 miles and less.

    57 Yep, on people not knowing about hybrids. Just yesterday, a guy who should know better asked where I plugged in my car at the condo.

  59. cwolf Says:

    Kit, your Camry is on par with the very good 45 mpg. I believe it is one of the best cars getting that type of mileage. I drove a couple fusion hybred loaners for a several days and it only got about 40-42 mpg’s but the transition to ICE mode was flawless. Maybe some people choose the fusion over the camry is because it has a better looking interior/just not so plane.

  60. Larry D. Says:

    58 even if you took a 2 mile trip to dinner every single night for 16 months, it is still 4 miles x 480, less than 2,000 miles.

  61. Kit Gerhart Says:

    60 There are a lot of other, longer trips on those same days of the w mile trips. It all adds up. During part of the year, I do 3 or 4 ~50 mile round trips a week where I would get very good mileage, 50-60 mph with few stops during much of the trip.

  62. Larry D. Says:

    58 I know the FUsion Hybrid, it has a much crappier interior than the Camry, and it can get 40 MPG in your DREAMS. You will be lucky to get a REAL 35 MPG out of it, which defeats the point of getting a hybrid, you are better off with the non-hybrid version of that loser. AND take a look a the new Explorer’s HORRIFIC problems, do you REALLY want to stick with these POS domestics any more? But I guess if you believe that… Tesla is a Ponzi scheme, you can believe anything, even that the UAW Leadership is not corrupt… despite a SIXTH one of them pleading guilty yesterday.

  63. Kit Gerhart Says:

    59 I’ve driven a first generation Fusion hybrid, and the powertrain operation was very seamless, like the Camry hybrid or Prius. I test drove an Accord hybrid before buying the Camry, and the main reason I bought the Toyota, was that the powertrain is simpler, with no clutches, and is smoother and more seamless in operation.

    I suspect people would buy the Fusion hybrid because it probably looks better on the outside to most people, and just because they like Fords. I checked out the Malibu hybrid, but ruled it out because in loses trunk space, and the mpg is significantly lower than the Camry or Accord.

  64. Kit Gerhart Says:

    62 These are the same highway numbers CR got.

    CR got 39 and 35 for the Camry and Fusion hybrids, respectively, in their city test that return generally low numbers for all vehicles.

  65. Bob Wilson Says:

    #37 – Rats, you guessed my latest PUT offer. I have to change it tonight to reflect fair market price. There is something called the ‘SHORT SQUEEZE’.

  66. John H Says:

    The Corvette doesn’t have 600+ horsepower or 600+ lb-ft of torque (not really possible for a 6.2 n/a engine). The Motor Trend article states that after they’d done the dyno runs they found there is also a transfer ratio in the DCT gearbox of 1.459:1 before the final drive – and if you divide by that number the measured outputs are exactly what you would expect.