AD #2712 – No Camaro Replacement Scheduled, Aston Martin Builds First Motorcycle, U.S. EV October Sales Drop

November 6th, 2019 at 12:00pm

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Listen to “AD #2712 – No Camaro Replacement Scheduled, Aston Martin Builds First Motorcycle, U.S. EV October Sales Drop” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 9:06

0:07 Lambo & MIT Develop New Supercapacitor Tech
0:41 Volvo To Track Sources of Cobalt
1:12 CATL To Supply Batteries to Tesla
1:35 U.S. EV October Sales Drop
2:50 Former Zipcar CEO To Run Ford’s AV Operations
3:15 Aston Martin Teases New SUV Interior
3:46 No Camaro Replacement Scheduled
4:16 Ford Shows Off EV Mustang at SEMA
5:03 Ranger RTR Off-Road Package
5:46 BMW Reveals New Motorcycles
6:33 Honda Shows Off New Bikes
7:18 SEAT Jumps into Motorcycle Market
7:38 Aston Martin Builds First Motorcycle

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56 Comments to “AD #2712 – No Camaro Replacement Scheduled, Aston Martin Builds First Motorcycle, U.S. EV October Sales Drop”

  1. Lambo2015 Says:

    Here is the link to the CNN story on Lamborghini’s use of supercapacitors.


    If you ran GM, what would you do?(about the Camaro). I would do the same thing that Ford is doing with Mustang-inspired EV crossover and make a very sporty EV CUV.

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The current Camaro works great, but styling has not gone over well. Too “juvenile,” I sometimes hear. Also, people whine about the interior, though I don’t see a problem with it. Two friends have the cars, both V6 automatic, and to me, and their owners, they drive quite well.

    I think GM should do a next generation Camaro, based on the platform used for the CT4 and CT5, but maybe “retro” has run its course. They need to be able to sell more than 50-60K a year, though, to justify a new one, while keeping prices in line with Mustang.

  4. Kit Gerhart Says:

    2 If the Ford Mustang Electric Truck sells well, maybe Chevy should do something similar, but it should not be called “Camaro.”

  5. Lambo2015 Says:

    If I were running GM, I would develop the 2024 Camaro to utilize the outgoing front engine Corvette platform and bring back the hatchback design. Essentially maintain the Camaro interest and front engine Corvette enthusiasts with a car that satisfies both consumers. Basically a 4 passenger corvette.

  6. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Kit, #3, I think you’re on to something; also there has been a lot said of not being able to see out of the ‘greenhouse’ very well. And Lambo, #5 that’s another great idea, with all the development that went into the C7, use it for a new Camaro (they have already, to an extent) but carry that theme on. It does appear that Chevy is putting more of their ‘eggs’ into the C8 basket; C8 convertible, ZO6 in development and perhaps eventually another ZR1.

    I’m not a Mustang fan, in fact a prejudice against it since a child (don’t know why, just am); anyway that SEMA Mustang electric is HOT (in a good way). The style has proportions from front to back, nice job Ford.

    Wonder why so much interest in motorcycles; interest is waning (not just Harley Davidson) all makes. These new entries, and specialties may be money lost after all is said and done. And I’m a motorcycle fan; owner on and off, mostly on since 1974.

  7. Buzzerd Says:

    GM what would I do? Maybe kill the Camaro, make Corvette a brand and add a Camaro type vehicle 2+2 and a hi performance cross over, maybe use XT4 as a base.
    New BMW’s look great. I would really like to try the F900XR, it looks like a great balance of handling/power/comfort.
    $100K plus for a bike you can’t ride on the street? Wouldn’t it be great to have that kind of $$$$$$$$$

  8. Lambo2015 Says:

    Kit I initially thought the same thing about taking the Camaro electric but I don’t really think they are there yet to provide a EV sportscar that can be a daily driver as many Camaros are. The technology might be there during the next iteration around 2028. The hybrid version of the Mustang will prove if there is an interest. However Ford tends to electrify or turbo a car in order to use a smaller gas engine and the majority of Mustang, Challenger and Camaro owners are less concerned with MPG and more interested in HP. So if Ford adds electrification to gain more power or acceleration it may sell well. If they do it to maintain current power and get better fuel economy the impact will likely be mediocre. Will increase the sales of Mustangs in the same percentage that sell with the ecoboost.

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    6 Regarding motorcycles, I seem to one of few who likes “mega scooters.” The last I knew, all of them had been dropped in the US market, except the two Suzukis, and the BMW that Bob Wilson’s i3 REx borrowed the engine from. I have a 2003 Honda SilverWing, which was dropped from the US market a few years ago.

    As far as making a 4 passenger C7, I’d think that would be an expensive proposition, and they wouldn’t be able to sell it at Camaro prices. Also, I suspect it would be hard to package much space with its space frame/plastic body design, and it would be hard to quell road noise, the biggest weakness of a C7, at least to me.

  10. Buzzerd Says:

    9- I kind of like the mega scooters, they are the mini vans of the motorcycle world. Very useful but people disregard them because of the image.

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    8 I would potentially be interested in the Mustang hybrid, if they are serious about efficiency, rather than making it do 4 second 0-60 times, and going 160 mph.

    As far as “ecoboost,” it’s much more a marketing moniker, than anything about “eco.” The current Mustang “ecoboost” automatic, and the Camaro turbo 4 automatic get 3 mpg better than the last V6 Mustangs sold, and the current Camaro V6. The real world mileage of the V6s and turbo 4s might be even closer than the EPA numbers would indicate.

    If the Mustang hybrid gets 40 mpg combined, and does 7 sec 0-60, that would be a compromise that would appeal to me. It should be doable, if they go in that direction. A four cylinder Mustang weighs about the same as a Camry hybrid with 52 mpg combined rating, and the Mustang should weigh only 200-250 pounds more as a hybrid, based on the weight difference of the hybrid and non-hybrid Camry.

  12. Lambo2015 Says:

    9 Just checked Honda website looks like they have 4 scooters available in the US.

  13. bradley cross Says:

    I heard that China told Tesla they will be using CATL as a supplier. Hope their QA is OK.
    Given they are giving Tesla a factory it seems fair.

    Time to kill Camaro. Maybe bring it back it later when batteries get cheaper.

    EV Sales will explode when model Y comes online.

  14. Lambo2015 Says:

    9&12 Opps on my link. I guess those would not be considered mega-scooters and the only 600cc one still on their website looks like its only offered in 2015 2016 models. Not sure why it hasn’t been removed unless dealers still have stock somewhere.

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    12 The one called Forza, now ~280cc was originally sold as Reflex in the early 2000s, with a 250cc motor. The current Ruckus and Metropolitan are 50cc. This is my scooter:

    It was sold in the US from 2002-2013. It may still be sold in other markets.

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14 The last model year for the 600cc SilverWing was 2013, but they probably had some left over, which didn’t run out for a couple more years.

    My 2003 is my favorite color of all the colors they used, Candy Glory Red, in Honda-speak.

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    10 Yep, some people don’t like the image of scooters. I know someone who had a Burgman 650, and ended up selling it because the image. Maybe some of his “friends” gave him a hard time.

    The big scooters are kind of gas hogs, with the snowmobile-type belt CVT, but they are effortless to ride, have lots of storage, and good weather protection. I like “variety,” though, and like to shift gears some of the time, and also have a KLR650 which I ride only on the street. Both are slow, by 600cc two wheeler standards, but are plenty fast enough for any street riding, including on the interstate.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    C8 production delayed to February.

  19. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Losing 6 weeks, and not completing C7 production, they had to finish; makes sense C8 is delayed.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Months ago, there was an article somewhere saying that the last C7 had been sold in an auction for charity, but that must have been fake news, since they are still building C7s.

  21. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Kit it WAS sold at auction; just wasn’t built yet. I think it was at Barrett Jackson.

  22. Clem Zahrobsky Says:

    No Camaro want is chevy going to run in NASCAR

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21 OK, that makes sense.

    22 Malibu? Or maybe they’ll quit NASCAR, and let Ford and Toyota fight it out.

  24. Lambo2015 Says:

    22 At this point NASCAR could just use a generic car body differentiated by sponsor. Which is basically what they already are. They share essentially nothing with their production counterparts and use engine builders not blocks from GM or Ford. NASCAR still requires pushrod V8s with 2 valves per cylinder and are carbureted. 30 year old technology.

    I thought one of the purposes of sponsoring a race team from a manufacturers standpoint was to develop new technology and prove it out in a racing environment. As it stands GM and Ford and Toyota are not able to test any possible improvements or designs due to NASCAR wanting to keep the races close. It would be great to see an actual stock-car race and watch a hellcat engine run 500 miles wide open. Lots could be learned from that and would probably help sales of Challenger, Camaro and Mustang. I guess Toyota would have to bring the new Supra?

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    24 They have been fuel injected for a few years.

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Fuel injection since 2012

  27. Larry D. Says:

    The corruption widens, more UAW Bigwigs charged. CWOLF attacks Larry D in retaliation.

  28. Bob Wilson Says:

    About EV sales, ‘InSideEVs’ has dropped their monthly sales figures because GM, Tesla, and others have decided to go quarterly sales reporting. But Wards has their numbers behind a ‘paywall’ that requires a fee to see.

    So I’m going to reserve judgement on Tesla and any other sales until the first week of January, 2020. I don’t fault others who choose to use the ‘paywall’ hidden, Wards report. After all, we all want content. But I’m not going to make investment or sales decisions twice (or more) removed from the source.

  29. Larry D. Says:

    Guess who was in the news again today, LOSER VOLVO with its puny, pathetic 0.6% US Share.

    Second, I don’t care to dispute Ward’s or anybody else’s ESTIMATES of EV sales, but I really believe you should tell your viewers that these are NOT actual sales, but only ESTIMATES, since the (BY FAR) Biggest EV Maker, TESLA, does NOT report monthly sales.

    (PS if you care to estimate EV sales, why not give us an estimate of the poor GM FORD and FCA sales last month? Why not?)

  30. Larry D. Says:

    28 the Growth market for BEVs is 1. China, 2. Europe (big time now!) and 3. and last, backward US of the 19th century Trains. Unless other states become like CA and stop erecting BARRIERS to BEVs, I don’t see a whole lot of growth in the US except for the affordable Crossover Tesla Y, a year or more from now.

  31. Larry D. Says:


    I have been in China for almost a week now, and I see a ton of vehicles from GM, VW, AUDI, even FORD, Toyota, HONDA, KIA even, plus many more of Chinese Build (they look GREAT!), but I still have to see a SINGLE miserable Volvo-Geely Chinese owned Piece of Junk.

    Even the Chinese don’t care for these coffeemaker 4s for $90k!

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 Volvo is going to hit it big with their $155K plug-in hybrid. Well, maybe not, but it apparently works pretty well.

  33. Larry D. Says:

    Detroit 3 Failed the UAW in preventive health care.

    When you see these UAW Criminals getting arrested, and especially the guy who became interim UAW prez and promised they will not keep stealing millions from the member’s dues,

    You cannot help but observe that the Detroit 3 have failed, MISERABLY, to educate the UAW in PREVENTIVE health care, healthy living, and all that.

    In case you think this is unimportant for the automakers, think AGAIN, and think HARD.

    They lose tens of billions every year in UNneccessary health care of a very unhealthy population.

    Whenever i see photos of UAW members, whether they are crimimal bigwigs, or the poor suckers who picket, they are really unfit, and dangerously so.

    The new interim UAW boss in particular, looks like he has a BMI of not just 25-30 (overweight) or 30-35 (Obese) or 35-40 (MORBIDLY Obese) but 50, If I had to guess.

    Our own health care does NOT emphasize heaklthy living and prevention, but with the UAW it is really a scandal, and extremely STUPID at that, that the negotiators of the recent agreement did not insert many healthy living sticks and carrots.

    Nowhere in the world is there a more unfit workforce, and I have seen many.

  34. Larry D. Says:

    $155k, eh? Does it also come with the 4-cylinder? These guys are worse than the Caddy types who priced the ELR at twice the VOlt and four times the Cruze!

  35. Larry D. Says:

    Isn’t $155k exactly what the new Acura NSX was priced at when it came out? I bet the Volvo 155k will have about the same sales (2 -not 2,000, but just 2, as in one-two) a month?)

  36. Larry D. Says:

    “The scandal has raised the possibility of racketeering charges against the UAW, similar to those filed against the Teamsters union in 1989 by then-U.S. Attorney Rudy Giuliani”

    From today’s “Automotive News Daily”

  37. Larry D. Says:

    chinese taxis still $2-3 a fare. Who needs Uber?

    Yesterday my pickup was late by a couple mins and I was worried she would not arrive at all so I started walking to the office from the hotel. Soon a VW mini-minivan (from the front seat it felt just like a Jetta) stopped and I used it, while my pickup had actually just arrived and was following us. The fare for the 3 mile or so trip was 18 yuan, and at 6.5 yuan to the $, it was $3. Who needs an Uber in China? I gave the guy a 20 yuan note and he insisted to give me the two 1 yuan coin change.

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    34 A 4 cylinder turbo, two electric motors in the back, and an electric motor/generator in the front.

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    37 When I was in Shanghai in 1994, the taxi rides were cheap, and most of the cars were VW Santanas, basically early generation Passats called Dasher and Quantum in the US. They had 4-speed manual transmissions, and the drivers were impressively good at driving them smoothly, and economically.

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    37 It sounds like now, as in 1994, maybe the taxi drivers aren’t allowed to take tips. In 1994, one driver offered the passengers cigarettes. I declined.

  41. Ctech Says:

    If I were running GM I would not kill the Camaro. I think the retro styling has run its course with the Camaro. Lambo’s idea of possibly using the C7 platform is great. Killing the Camaro will lose many younger buyers. GM needs to think about the future, not just wall street today. The success of the Challenger is that it is a better overall car for daily use than the Camaro. Design a better Camaro. As John once said “It takes the same amount of effort to built a good car as a bad car, so why not build a good one”.

  42. Larry D. Says:

    39 I saw those old Santanas, angular small 80s models, in 2006. Fares did not go up in 13 years, not by much. The taxi I used had a flat fare of 16 yuan for the first couple km or so, then it only picked up 2 more yuan. I was given a ride in a newer Santana for free by a young stranger the other day, he told me he was in insurance, the car was bigger, smoother, and more luxurious inside, all the electric options etc. This morning I was given a ride in a small chinese made car, that also was quite good inside, well appointed interior.

    Most of the cars I see here (and they are in the 1000s) seem to be of recent vintage and well maintained, and due to the low speed limits on these huge highways (60 kmph =40 mph) they seem as quiet as EVs.

  43. Larry D. Says:

  44. Kit Gerhart Says:

    41 The Challenger has a roomier back seat and trunk than a Camaro (or Mustang), making it a better car for daily use for some people. It has a huge blind spot to the right rear like the Camaro, though. I think the large number of iterations and drive train choices helps keep it going, along with offering at least one of the retro colors every model year.

    My friends with the Camaros rarely even carry one passenger, and never use the back seat, and the trunk is big enough for their use. The cars are “sporty” driving, even with the ~300hp V6, and handle much better than a Challenger R/T I drove a few years ago. The Challenger was cool, though, in a retro sort of way, with the V8, manual transmission, and kind of under size tires for such a big car. Handling was not its forte, compared to the current Camaro. Of course, the transmission and clutch of the Challenger were much, much better, with lower effort, than the old muscle cars.

  45. Kit Gerhart Says:

    42 The Santana taxis I rode in were based on 1st and 2nd generation Passats, while I found that the current ones use the platform of the current, bigger Jetta and Skoda and SEAT versions. The Chinese ones have small gas turbos. From what I saw in a wikipedia article, all of the Santanas in China have used gas engines from the start, with no diesels.

  46. Kit Gerhart Says:

    43 Interesting. Probably most of the reason for using the 6-speed transmission is to be “different,” but, using the transmission might simplify things for them. Motors in EVs are normally very high rpm, which is how you get lots of power with a small, light motor. I’ve read that Tesla S motors turn 16,000-18,000 rpm at top speed. You need lots of gear reduction, and this Mustang EV can get part of that using lower gears in the transmission, while using an off-the-shelf rear differential. It might be easier for them to just use the standard transmission for the needed gear reduction. I suspect the service life of the transmission would not be very long, though, running in 2nd or 3rd gear for hours with an input rpm of 10,000 rpm. Regular transmissions are not designed for that.

  47. Clem Zahrobsky Says:

    GM medical also spends $ 15+ millions a year on Viagra

  48. Lambo2015 Says:

    28 The EV estimates are probably pretty accurate as places like Wards have been doing this a long time. Not to mention many suppliers like where I work get a daily release of parts needed to ship so the manufacturer can build those vehicles. So when sales drop we see a corresponding drop. On the flip side when sales are good we often see the addition of Saturday and Sundays requirements being added to the releases.
    The concerning side of this drop in EV sales is that EVs are an emerging market. Currently they account for a small percentage so they should be seeing growth even if overall sales drop. Certainly January sales numbers will provide the actual proof.

  49. cwolf Says:

    I see no consequence towards auto sales during the holiday seasons, including EV’s. At least in this half of the hemisphere.
    I never gave it much thought, but one can be most certain electrics will be warmed up and ready before every test drive. Realizing a battery drain with the heater, lights, wipers on, plus other devices while driving an EV for the first test drive would be unsettling for any salesman. I could be wrong!

  50. Lambo2015 Says:

    49 I’m not really sure how states can have these “green initiates” and still prohibit Tesla from being sold in their state. The whole dealer franchise law was to protect the already existing dealerships having to compete with the original manufacturer from opening up shops and competing against them. Tesla has never has a dealership network and for that reason should not be required to establish one or have the franchise law applied to them. The laws makers need to catch up with the times and realize that this law only hurts their so called desire to go green.
    Elon explained in an interview why existing dealerships would not be very efficient at selling any electric car. Which is why he wont license existing dealerships to sell Tesla’s.

    “It is impossible for them (dealerships) to explain the advantages of going electric without simultaneously undermining their traditional business.” Also since most dealerships make the majority of their profits on service. The EVs would cut into those profits in the long run and provides another reason to steer potential buyers toward a conventional vehicle.

    Either way you look at it the Franchise laws were created to protect an established network of independent dealerships from having to compete with the manufacturer. I’m not sure why it is taking so long for this to be changed if they truly believe in this whole EV push. Typical politicians that say one thing while doing something completely different.

  51. cwolf Says:

    50) You may be right. This may be a another major reason why other manufactures having EV’s in their line-up don’t sell many of them.

  52. Kit Gerhart Says:

    50 I suspect the big franchise owners give tens of millions of dollars to political campaigns, to buy protection for the dealership status quo.

    I’d think Tesla could sell in those franchise states, with only small extra cost, if he allowed the franchise to operate “on the cheap,” rather than requiring new, fancy facilities, as most car companies do. It shouldn’t cost much to add new Tesla sales to an existing used car lot, and make that a “dealership.”

  53. Brett Cammack Says:

    I have always contended that after the 70s, GM stylists lost the ability to put their pens down when the thing was “just right” and kept mucking about with them. I think they’re getting better about that, but I consider the Camaro as a prime example. The Malibu is a good contrasting example.

    I think the Mustang looks terrific. I don’t think it looks very much like a Ford anymore, but who’s to say what a Ford looks like today?

    I want one of the new Royal Enfield INT650 motorcycles (in orange, please), but after running the numbers on my upcoming retirement in two years, that ain’t gonna happen. Wouldn’t mind one of those retro Honda Cub clones, either. “You meet the nicest people…” sigh

    The new Royal Enfield Himalayan is way-cool, too.

    The New Royal Enfield Himalayan

  54. Bryan Says:

    GM is such a mess. A company that once stood for great design but cheap materials and parts is now lost with mediocre to good materials and parts and hideous design. I like the Camaro, and it needs to stay. It is their entry level sports car, and that will help drive younger buyers into more of their products. If the Mustang and Challenger have anything to say, it’s that there is room for these cars. I just traded in my 3rd Mustang(I have a kid now and gas/insurance/payment was killing me), but I would gladly have another sporty car later on down the line. GM, you really have little clue about things. Then you want to charge an arm and a leg for it.

  55. Kit Gerhart Says:

    53 To me, the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger all look pretty good, but the Camaro is the least practical of the three, with poor visibility and a small trunk opening. Still, it works just fine, as long as you don’t want to use the back seat. The Mustang back seat is little, if any better.

    I think the current Malibu looks pretty good, and I might have considered one when I got my Camry hybrid, but there is too much difference in mpg, and the Malibu hybrid loses trunk space, while the 2018 and later Camry hybrid does not.

    I like the looks of those Royal Enfields, but I wonder if the quality is any good. A high school class mate sold them in Indiana for a while, and they had too many problems, from electrical failures, to wiped camshafts. That was years ago, though, and hopefully they have gotten better.

  56. Kit Gerhart Says:

    54 The two recent Camaro buyers I know are not young. One is about 80, and the other in his 50s. These “pony cars” may be kind of like Harleys, appealing mainly to aging baby boomers. Sean or John, do you have any average age data on the buyers of these cars?