AD #2739 – Mercedes Delays EQC Launch in U.S.; Congress Doesn’t Extend EV Tax Credit; Mahindra’s Legal Battle with FCA

December 17th, 2019 at 11:56am

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Listen to “AD #2739 – Mercedes Delays EQC Launch in U.S.; Congress Doesn’t Extend EV Tax Credit; Mahindra’s Legal Battle with FCA” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 10:46

0:07 Congress Doesn’t Extend EV Tax Credit
0:37 Private Citizens Only Buy a Fraction of NEVs In China
1:57 Car Sales in Europe Up For 3rd Straight Month
2:31 PSA-FCA Merger Takes Another Step
3:16 Mercedes Delays EQC Launch in U.S.
3:44 Carbon & Lambo Expand Partnership
4:39 Cadillac Teases Giant OLED Screen
4:55 More Kia K5 Details
6:39 Mahindra’s Legal Battle with FCA

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52 Comments to “AD #2739 – Mercedes Delays EQC Launch in U.S.; Congress Doesn’t Extend EV Tax Credit; Mahindra’s Legal Battle with FCA”

  1. Barry T Says:

    Now in China ED Stands for electric dysfunction…

  2. Lambo2015 Says:

    Hey Sean google the emblem of a Monaco Motorhome and see how that compares to the Mahindra emblem. Could be another lawsuit on their hands.

  3. Lambo2015 Says:

    “The drop in sales of EVs and hybrids in China may be far more serious than anyone realized”. Not really! I been saying it here for a long time that the EV market isn’t what all these supposed experts are claiming it is. The numbers all misleading by incentives, rebates or mandates. Not to mention they speak of it in terms of completely replacing ICE’s which I don’t believe will happen for many years. as in like at least 50. The only way that will change is if there is a huge break through in battery technology. Which is why EVs need to exist and continue to be developed but I’m glad to see US tax dollars will not be used to subsidize what in most cases is a wealthy persons car. that money would be better spent offering grants to universities and businesses that are working on Battery development. As the Chinese and US governments cut back the support to purchase these EVs we will start to see the true market interest in these products.

  4. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I think FCA’s lawsuit with Mahindra is silly. Yes, the Roxor looks a lot like a Jeep, but so what? It’s not street legal. It is much smaller than a current Wrangler, and the grill was even re-styled to look less Jeep-like. The Roxor doesn’t even come close to competing with any current Jeep product. I agree with you, Sean, that Mahindra could pay FCA some small royalty for each Roxor sold, but it shouldn’t be much, since Roxor so clearly does not compete with Jeep.

  5. Roger Blose Says:

    Hi John and Shawn, Just received a email notification that Automobile and Mustangs and Fast Fords magazines were being discontinued in print starting immediately by publisher TEN. They did offer some sort of streaming subscription in its place but I declined and asked for a refund. Last month, Autoweek magazine was sold and dropped by Crain as well. These changes cannot be good for the auto industry or media / journalism so the future is looking dicey for us car enthusiasts.

  6. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    4) I agree with you as well.

    With that said, why couldn’t Mahindra just use a different grill? Styling is cheap. They could have altered it to a 6 slot grill and been all OK. Kind of silly to risk a lawsuit over a styling decision which would have been very cheap to modify.

  7. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 So far Car and Driver, and Road & Track are still available in print form, and subscriptions are very cheap. There seems to be an awful lot of silliness, though, I guess for advertising dollars, as Road & Track named a Hyundai Veloster “performance car of the year.” Most of Car and Driver’s “10 best” choices make more sense, though I don’t now how they overlooked the fake scoops, and general ugly appearance of the Supra, which made the list.

  8. Kit Gerhart Says:

    7 continued.

    Motor Trend is also still around in print form, subscriptions for $10/year. I can’t see these three staying around much longer, when they are selling subscriptions for less than production and mailing cost.

  9. Larry D. Says:

    CADILLAC TEASES GIANT OLED SCREEN

    Oh yeah this should do the trick for me. a 38″ screen for probably upwards of $120k, if the latest Navigator prices are any indication. Sure. Never mind I got a 55″ screen smart 4k whatever TV I bought two years ago for $329 and have not bothered to install yet (true story)

  10. Larry D. Says:

    “The drop in sales of EVs and hybrids in China may be far more serious than anyone realized”

    Sorry, but you and all others who agree with you have NO CLUE IN HELL. China is NOT a democracy, and its totalitarian government has already decided to go BEVs WHOLE HOG, especially in the 6 mega-cities with 10 and 25 million people each. How many times do we need to repeat that in those cities you can practically have NO New ICEs, and if they LET you have one, the license fee is $15,000 while for any BEV it is F R E E.

    China will make and buy MILLIONS of BEVs no matter what you all say. You heard it here today, make a note of it and don’t bother regurgitate this tired old story “china sales are falling” again, you have done so 10 times already.

    PS to those with weak memories, China new car sales, 28,000,000 vs barely 17,000,000 for the US market, who USED to be the no 1 in the world. And this 28 is the BOTTOM number, down from over 30-35 mill. AND a decade from now, count on 50,000,000 new vehicle sales in China, unless some retard takes over and they have another “cultural revolution”.

  11. Bishop Says:

    There are several newspapers that thought the end was near too. Instead of folding, they upped their content and went digital. Low and behold, their subscriptions soared – to the point that their subs are greater than their earlier print days. In fact, their subscription revenue exceeds their advertising revenue now. It had always been the other way around.

    They are now adding to their writers / reporters increasing their coverage / content.

    MT bought out Velocity so they now have their own TV network and now they have a new revenue stream. Speaking of streams, one can subscribe to their streaming service and one can view all of their content (commercial free). My guess is that they will be around for the future. Some of the others that refuse to change – not so much.

  12. Lambo2015 Says:

    AD has reported the drop in China EV sales 10 times already probably because it keeps falling. Would you suggest they ignore the actual data? Report false information? Or just not report on something that Larry doesn’t agree with? Sorry Larry facts are facts whether you like the results or not. Yep China’s Government is going whole hog on EVs but consumers are not. Take note of that!

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5,11 et. al.
    I’ve been getting “free” content from AW for years, and maybe the ads pay for the cost of producing it. I now subscribe to C and D, and R&T, because the subscription are almost free. If they stop the print versions, I’ll probably just use what free, on-line content they have, but I doubt that I’d pay for a subscription.

  14. Larry D. Says:

    7, 8 Our local newspaper used to make 5/6ths of its money from ads and less than 1/6 from people who bought it (and the rest from its classifieds).

    Many mags that are full of ads probably have similar %s. And because the car mags usually belong to huge groups with 100s of different mags, they may be allowed to lose $ for a while, esp. if they provide a neat tax loss for the parent co.

    In the past, advertisers had a lot of sway on these “employee of the month” awards of the auto mags. Maybe not for C&D under Czaba Czere, but probably for R&T and MT, if not also for Automobile. I remember a former editor admitting to the above, forget who and what mag, most likely MT.

  15. Larry D. Says:

    my latest subscription to C&D was for $2 a year, as part of a frequent mile redemption with an airline I had too few miles and they would be lost if not spent.

  16. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    12) I find it amazing that he doesn’t even own an electric car. Not even an “electrified” car like a hybrid. He readily admits his commute is under 5 miles which is perfect for any electric car, even a crappy one. A $5000 used Nissan Leaf would take care of his needs. Yet with a straight face he thinks the whole world is going to buy brand new what he himself doesn’t even want to buy used for $5000. His logic is truly dizzying.

  17. Larry D. Says:

    Hyundai and esp Kia have gotten lots of awards and comparo test wins for their latest big crossovers, the Palisade and the Telluride. They sure undercut Fords and even GM crossovers in price. I wonder if they are that good or it is the effing ads again that pressure the judges.

  18. Larry D. Says:

    17 (my interest is strictly academic, I am not planning to buy either one)

  19. XA351GT Says:

    How soon until the windshield is replaced by a 4K screen with HUD and touchscreen or vocal commands. Everything projected to the screen via mini cams located everywhere eliminating blind spots ?

  20. Larry D. Says:

    16 you would not understand logic if it bit you in the rear. IF somebody does only 2,000 miles a year with each of their only 2 cars, they can drive a BUGATTI VEYRON and get 1 MPG and will pollute LESS than YOU DO with your stupid Mercur, especially if you drive that 100 Year old POS all the time! EVs are for those who do LOTS of miles. I WALK to the office every morning I feel like and all mornings that I weigh myself and see I gained weight. If it is not the pot calling the kettle black!

  21. Larry D. Says:

    20 Con’d I still look at used Tesla S prices on ce in a while, JUST for the fun of owning one, not that i NEED one. But do not expect 16 to ever understand.

  22. merv Says:

    that Cadillac dash is amazing,and I would agree on paying FCA royalties,it’s the right thing to do.

  23. XA351GT Says:

    FCA going after Mahindra is a bit much. The Roxor is a diesel off-road only toy not a street driven vehicle. At that rate Jeep could have went after The original Toyota Land Cruiser and Suzuki Jimny/Samauri as they had the distinct Jeep shape.

  24. Larry D. Says:

    20, 21 ps my commute is a mere 1.5 mile if i drive, 1 mile if I walk. and I walk a lot of the time. When I had my 740iL and some idiot green would accuse me of polluting and all that, I would tell them that it is THEM that have ZERO logic, since by using this 7 I took it from the market and did not allow some moron to buy it and drive it 30,000 miles a year. Instead, I drove it 3,000 miles only. DO THE MATH, 16.

  25. XA351GT Says:

    22 Why? FCA didn’t design the Jeep it is a 75 YO design that has just been tweaked over the years.

  26. Larry D. Says:

    24 to put it in a way everybody should understand it, suppose you have two kids, one of which is a salesman who drives 100,000 miles a year, and the other lives a mile from work and drives 1,000 miles a year. AND you got two cars to give them, a 8 mpg gas hog v12 and a PRIUS. WHO should get the hog, and who the prius?

    PS warning “A fool and his $ are soon parted”

  27. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Mahindra, change the vertical grill to horizontal, make it as many ribs as you like, keep the bug-eye headlights, and flattened fender and tell FCA to go to H………… Clearly not a threat to anything FCA currently makes, so take a small royalty and get on with it.

    Well sure EV’s are going to make a bigger impact (eventually) but China may have reached a saturation (without the incentives), and remember, with China’s new-found automotive expansion, replacement of vehicles is not that high as most are of a newer age. Without the push, in all markets, EV’s are still meeting a lot of customer reluctance.

    The Hyundai K5 looks really nice; it is balanced and nicely proportioned. I’m not buying one (right or wrong, I buy American) but I think they will sell well.

  28. Sean McElroy Says:

    @MERKUR DRIVER – It’s more than just the grille. When FCA says the Roxor infringes on Jeep’s “trade dress” it’s talking about the overall look of the vehicle. And it refers to very specific things like the flat fenders, door cutout and more. The grille is probably the least offensive of all that FCA is going after.

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    17 The Telluride is getting very good reviews from almost everyone. From CR’s charts, it has nearly identical passenger and cargo space to a Tahoe, but weights ~1300 pounds less. The Tahoe will tow more, though, 8300 pounds, to the Telluride’s 5000 pounds.

  30. Lambo2015 Says:

    Hey Ford just announced its plans to invest 1.45 Billion into two Detroit area plants.
    750Million into Wayne Assy to make Bronco and Rangers while Dearborn will get 700 Million to make EV and hybrid versions of the F-150. Also this will create 3000 new jobs.
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-invest-1-45-billion-175438280.html

  31. Tony Gray Says:

    I see FCA’s point. If that’s not a CJ-5 knock off them I’m a monkeys uncle.

    Their beef isn’t a wide net like the Selden Patent so I think they will prevail.

  32. Bob Wilson Says:

    Curious, TSLA reached ~$380/share but when it had a local drop to ~$378, someone bought a bunch. This is the pattern of a SHORT squeeze … having nothing to do with the Tesla Model S/3/X performance and value. In fact the Monday transactions suggests some SHORTs are trying to cover their position and bidding up the price (and their losses.)

    We need the details about the EV Federal Tax Credit. Is it all ending? As a TSLA owner, good, because it means an even financial situation in 2020. The ‘honorable’ competition gets no financial support while Tesla continues to shame them on the track.

    Tesla EVs advantages: (1) acceleration, (2) cost per mile, and (3) Supercharger network. Youtube videos show Teslas shaming cars costing 2-3x more. Over the air, Tesla software increased Model 3 charging from 100 kW to 170 kW. Having used EVgo, 50 kW, and unreliable Electrify America, many other EVs can’t exceed 50-70 kW fast DC charging.

  33. Kevin A Says:

    Sean, I notice that the ‘be polite’ rules do not apply to Larry D. Is he a relative? … or is he the current occupant of the the White House under another name?

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    32 To me, the big Tesla advantage over other EVs is the charger network. For now, the Model 3 is a better value than others, but that could change, possibly with the Ford E-Thing.

    As far as acceleration, 0-60 in 4 seconds or 8 seconds, so what? I have cars that do those two numbers, and in normal driving, it makes no difference. Of course, the quick one is more fun, but I rarely use the acceleration of the quick one.

  35. cwolf Says:

    32) Yup, Tesla’s have no competition for all the reasons listed and are great cars. But if you are driving great distances over the Holidays in cold climates like us northerners have, I suggest you take a bucket of hot coals along to stay warm or you will be Supercharging every 2 hours.

  36. Ctech Says:

    I understand the FCA position of this lawsuit. If you do not defend your brand then you can and will lose your right to control it. If Mahindra can get away with the Roxor now, then what if they decide to product a competitor to the Wrangler later ? If they do not defend this infringment now, what other competitor will take advantage of their designs?

  37. Kit Gerhart Says:

    36 Will Mahindra decide to make street legal CJ-2 clones? If so, I guess FCA has reason to be concerned.

  38. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    28) I can see a resemblance to the vintage jeep made by ford, willys, or bantam. The stuff made by FCA does not really look like a vintage jeep though. It will be interesting to watch which way the courts fall on this.

    20) Always fun and easy to wind you up. Thank you for your interest in my Merkur. It is a lovely car to drive. I have had it for almost 20 years now. My daily is a Hybrid though for your future reference. My fleet does consist of a Tesla Model X, A 600hp mustang, a 760hp camaro, and a 250hp fiero, and a F150 for your future reference. Feel free to criticize any of those as you please.

  39. Lambo2015 Says:

    35 You brought up a good question. If your traveling in the cold and need to stop and recharge your EV. Knowing that even at a fast charging port you’ll be there for more than 20 min. Can you leave the heat on while charging and if so does that increase the charging time? I would guess it almost has to but is it significant? Maybe Bob knows.

    38) I would be interested in hearing more about anyone of the vehicles in your fleet especially the Fiero. 250hp? I assume a whole engine swap or turbo V6?

  40. Larry D. Says:

    33 I wish. You will be stuck with the guy for another 5 years, BTW. I see no credible alternative except Bloomberg, and he has not been tested yet.

  41. Larry D. Says:

    34 The network is fine, but the reason Tesla is the only successful BEV maker in the US is that it has succeeded in selling its vehicles for about the SAME price, and not DOUBLE the price, of their ICE rivals, such as the insanely successful (sales wise) Model 3 and the 3 Series, which also was no slouch, it dominated its segment before the Model 3 ate its lunch.

  42. Larry D. Says:

    37 Sane buyers should stay away from any Mahindra, whose reputation precedes it.

  43. Larry D. Says:

    https://assets.ctfassets.net/b9rsy5ko3uza/4YoNl7ooBZVINbnM8yF6CW/20563f7b91b09e6e9bef4ccadcefd4ed/20191113_On_the_Move_Final_with_disclaimer.pdf

    For those with lots of spare time. This report was emailed to me from BP. They apparently did some surveys. I just started taking a quick look. The top 4 barriers to BEV ownership are listed as vehicle price (47%), charging points (40%), range (39%) and charging time (37%). Tesla has addressed the top two.

  44. Larry D. Says:

    43 it also has addressed range, many of its BEVs have 300+ miles (500+KM) range, and even the 4th with its superchargers.

  45. Kit Gerhart Says:

    43,44 They haven’t addressed charging points for people like me. The only Tesla chargers near me are slow “destination” chargers, and you have to pay Westgate Properties $15-20 parking fee to access them.

  46. Lambo2015 Says:

    43 Interesting article and will require more time to read the whole thing. A quick look through and I still did not see much of anything about what I consider to be the biggest deterrents to EV ownership. I would think almost every buyer of an EV buys with the intent to do 90% of their driving within the vehicles range to go and get back home. The “network” of charging locations is only needed when going outside of their range which I would also expect to be not very often. So a large percentage of people will not buy an EV without home charging capability. They don’t want to wait to charge and the extended waiting time becomes of less concern when almost all their charging is done at home.

  47. Lambo2015 Says:

    46 cont- So they need to add to their survey how many people have the ability to add a charger at home and how they feel about the added cost of said home charger. I’m willing to bet that alone may exceed their number one deterrent 47% say price. could be as high as 60% say no to not having access to charge at home or willing to pay to add a charger.

  48. Kit Gerhart Says:

    46,47 What you say is certainly the case for me. An alternative would be if there were chargers at places I go on a regular basis. A “Level 2″ charger that would charge at ~25 miles/hour of charge, at a restaurant I go to 3 days a week, would provide all the charging I’d need for my local driving. That doesn’t exist, and for now, I have no place to charge at my condo.

  49. Larry D. Says:

    45 Clearly. BEVs cannot satisfy everybody, at least not at this stage, but every year it will be better in many directions, and in some areas improvements will be faster (China, Germany) than in others.

    BTW I see a ton of Teslas in my town despite the laws against Tesla Stores selling directly to the customers. Maybe some people relocate from CA and other BEV-high states and bring them here, maybe others like that AAH guest enthusiast drive 3 hours to Cleveland to buy one.

  50. Kit Gerhart Says:

    49 I see a few, but not a lot of Teslas here in Florida. I suspect 3/4 of the people in my immediate area are in condos and apartments, and are not buying them for the same reason I haven’t considered one, no charging at home.

  51. Larry D. Says:

    50 I’m sure my town (and even county) is not typical or average for MI. Hillary got 87% or so either in my town or even county-wise in 16.

    I just checked the numbers, the county went 67.6% to 68.13% for Hillary but I can’t find results for my town

  52. Brett Cammack Says:

    I went out to buy a new, loaded Jeep Gladiator and was deceived into buying a Mahindra Roxor!

    Said nobody. Ever.