AD #2759 – Rivian Production Details; FCA Shows Off New Uconnect System; Have Sedans Bottomed Out?
January 27th, 2020 at 11:57am
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Runtime: 9:22
0:07 GM’s EV & AV Production Plans
0:42 Origin, Canoo Or Futurliner?
1:17 Israeli Startups Improve AV Testing
2:48 Rivian Production Details
4:19 Kia Boosts Telluride Production
4:56 Corvette C8 Fuel Economy
5:37 Thrilling 24 Hours of Daytona
6:37 FCA Shows Off New Uconnect System
7:26 Mike O’Brien Leaves Hyundai
7:48 Have Sedans Bottomed Out?
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GM’S EV & AV PRODUCTION PLANS
General Motors made big EV and AV news today. It’s investing $3 billion in its Hamtramck assembly plant in Detroit to make electric vehicles, as well as the Cruise Automation autonomous vehicle. The EVs will be built on a common architecture and will likely include sedans, SUVs, pickup trucks and the autonomous vehicle they’ve named Origin. The plant, which had been making Cadillac CT6s and Chevrolet Impalas, will reopen at the end of 2021.
ORIGIN, CANOO OR FUTURLINER?
Speaking of Origin, long-time Autoline viewer GM Veteran wrote in to say the Origin is interesting but he found the styling of the AV from Canoo to be more to his taste. In fact, he went on to say that the Canoo looks like a downsized version of the GM Futurliner from the 1950’s. Those were the vehicles that GM built to take around the country for its Parade of Progress presentations. So what do think, Origin, Canoo…or Futurliner?
ISRAELI STARTUPS IMPROVE AV TESTING
When it comes to Level 5 AVs, the ones with no steering wheel or pedals, the thing that’s been holding them back is all the testing that’s needed to teach their artificial intelligence systems how to recognize every possible situation. Waymo has racked up over 20 million miles of real world testing, but that’s not enough. Some say that it will take 500 years to accumulate enough test miles to ensure that AVs have 99.999% accuracy. But two Israeli startups may be able to supercharge those efforts. Cortica is a company that claims it can teach AI systems with a 90% reduction in computing power. For example, it can show the system a picture of one bottle of beer, and it will learn to distinguish any kind of beer bottle from any other kind of container. Another startup, Foretellix, can automatically generate “edge” cases or “corner” cases in simulation. In other words, you feed it a driving situation, and it can generate all the scenarios where things can go wrong. This allows AV companies to generate 100 times more meaningful tests than they can do today, and has 10 times the verification efficiency. So who knows? Foretellix says we could see Level 4 AVs in the next 3 to 5 years.
RIVIAN PRODUCTION DETAILS
Interesting new details about Rivian’s production plans are coming out. Test runs down the assembly line at the company’s plant in Normal, Illinois will start in the third quarter of this year, with full production of the R1T pickup starting in December. Rivian’s R1S utility vehicle will roll off the same line about 3 months later. Ford will also make a luxury SUV built on Rivian’s electric skateboard, but Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe says “it’s a very different product from our own SUV.” It’s not known if the SUV will be branded a Ford or a Lincoln. Rivian will also make 100,000 electric vans for Amazon, the last of which should be completed by 2024. All the vehicles use the same skateboard, but since there will be three battery options and each has their own different body, the plant will have a number of assembly lines. One will be dedicated to building the skateboard, another will make the batteries, which will feed to the skateboard line and then there will be two final trim assembly lines. One for Ford and Rivian vehicles, the other for Amazon vans.
KIA BOOSTS TELLURIDE PRODUCTION
Kia’s new SUV the Telluride is so popular it’s going to increase production. A Korean news site reports that the automaker will ramp up production to 100,000 units a year. Since it went on sale in March more than 58,600 Telludrides, which is made at Kia’s plant in Georgia, were sold in the U.S. market alone. The SUV also won the 2020 North American Utility of the Year award. And you can listen to what our panels of jurors on Autoline This Week (Part 1; Part 2) had to say about the Telluride here.
CORVETTE C8 FUEL ECONOMY
Most Corvette customers buy the car for its thrilling performance, but they are more than willing to brag about the car’s surprising fuel economy if you give them the chance. And the new C8 will be no different. Autoblog reports that Corvette’s chief engineer, Ed Piatek, says the new car will get 15 miles-to-the-gallon in the city and 27 on the highway. That’s pretty impressive from a car that has a nearly 500 horsepower 6.2L V8 and can do 0-60 in 2.9 seconds. By comparison, a Ferrari 488 gets 15 mpg city and 20 on the highway.
THRILLING 24 HOURS OF DAYTONA
Motor racing fans were treated to a break in the mid-winter doldrums with the 24 Hours of Daytona. The race ran at a blistering pace, with the winners going 25 more laps more than the last record. Cadillac pulled out another overall win in the prototype class, coming ahead of Mazda and Acura. BMW fought off a determined charge from a couple of Porsche 911s in the GTLM class, with the new C8 Corvette finishing 4th in its first race. In the GTD class, a Lamborghini Huracan took the win. That GTD class is hyper competitive. In qualifying, the top 8 positions were taken by 8 different manufacturers, making this one of the healthiest racing series in the world.
FCA SHOWS OFF NEW UCONNECT SYSTEM
FCA revealed its new Uconnect infotainment system. The fifth-gen version is five times faster, can support up to eight connected devices and is now scalable across all of FCA’s brands. It’s powered by the Android Auto operating system and includes an Alexa in-vehicle assistant. But Apple CarPlay is still available. The fully customizable interface can store preferences for five user profiles and the system can be used on a screen up to 12.3 inches. TomTom is built into the Navigation system and SiriusXM 360L as well as personalized stations from Pandora are also available. The Uconnect 5 system will start being equipped in vehicles later this year.
MIKE O’BRIEN LEAVES HYUNDAI
Hyundai’s vice president of product planning, Mike O’Brien is leaving the company. He was a repeat guest on Autoline After Hours and we always enjoyed his candid conversation and wide scope of knowledge of Hyundai’s Vehicles. Mr. O’Brien is going to pursue other interests and we can’t wait to learn what those interests are.
HAVE SEDANS BOTTOMED OUT?
Automakers once again struggled to sell sedans in the U.S. last year. According to Wards Intelligence, sales dropped nearly 11% in 2019. So has the segment finally bottomed out? On last week’s Autoline After Hours we were joined by auto analyst Jeff Schuster from LMC Automotive, and in the following clip he discusses if we will see sedans bounce back this year.
Jeff Schuster, LMC Automotive
“So, we don’t think so. We think sedans and cars in general, we’re expecting them around a quarter of the market. If you look at ‘car’ as a broad term including sporty and a couple of wagons and so forth that are there. So falling and not quite the bottom yet, it’s still got a few more years but we’re starting to see it bottom out over the next couple of years. Kind of in that low 20% range. And at the same time, to kind of go to the opposite of that, we expect, and we got really close in 2019, 2020 we’ll see SUVs at 50% plus for the market this year.”
You can watch that entire discussion right now on our website, Autoline.tv or just look for it on our YouTube channel.
But that’s it for today, thanks for watching and we’ll see you right back here again tomorrow.
Thanks to our partner for embedding Autoline Daily on its website: WardsAuto.com
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Comments (40)
January 27th, 2020 at 12:24 pm
A. There seems to be a rivalry between Amazon’s Bezos and Tesla’s Musk. Bezos ordered those 100,000 vans with Rivian in a blatant scheme to support this startup and make sure it will survive. Other than Tesla, Rivian and a few Chinese BEV makers, the rest are more likely to go broke, especially since none of them has a compelling product at a compelling PRICE.
B. GM’s 3 billion investment will be down the drain, along with the 5 or so billion it lost on the VOLT and the BOLT, if the same kind of undesirable and/or ugly COMPLIANCE vehicles continue to be made, that cost twice as much as their ICE cousins. That is the hard truth and no amount of spin can change it.
I bet GM will CONTINUE to produce losers in this area, and Tesla will continue to dominate the BEV segment with not much less than its current gigantic 78% share. (as for Amazon’s 100,000 vans, are they included in light vehicles, and if they are, how many years until the last one is delivered? In any case, 100,000 is not much compared to Tesla’s 1,200,000-1,500,000 ANNUAL production capacity (in the US, CHina and Europe)
C. Corvette vs Ferrari Fuel Economy. Seriously? Who (except for Kit of course, who uses his Corvette as a Highway trip vehicle) cares?
But if you do, I got news for you. The Tesla S performance versions get 4 times the MPGe these two get, AND Beat them easily on the drag strip, AND can carry SEVEN and their gear, not two and a purse (Ferrari).
C.
January 27th, 2020 at 12:31 pm
I will disagree on the IMAA racing series comment they only had 38 cars total starting event and just made a deal with ACO to shore up prototypes class if they can
Like all racing they need more cars and it is very very pricey to race any class they have so we will see
January 27th, 2020 at 12:45 pm
The Rolex 24 had rain during qualifying but the weather cleared and was part of the reason for the high number of laps driven. There were also fewer than ‘normal’ (hate to use that word) of cautions during the race which also helped.
The C8 rated at 27 mpg (hwy) is huge; even today’s C7 with a highway rating of 25, routinely posts over 30 mpg at highway speeds; the C8 will also tip to over 30 mpg in my estimation. This helps the Corvette maintain the reputation that it can be an everyday driver (that and the fairly compliant around town ride).
I still can’t get over the Rivian’s look (front) but I think it has a chance to make its mark in the electric auto industry (especially with the help of the Ford model).
January 27th, 2020 at 12:58 pm
Origin, Canoo…or Futurliner? I have to say I think the Origin has the most unique design and looks less like anything else. (good or bad).
The Canoo looks to me like the VW bus concept.
https://kazr-fm.sagacom.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/12/files/2017/09/Screen-Shot-2017-09-01-at-9.12.32-AM-620×400.png
Its rounded top edges do not look like a futurliner at all as that has more pronounced rounded corners not so much the top. My 2cents
January 27th, 2020 at 1:10 pm
Today was the first honest reality check when it comes to AVs. No I don’t think we are 500 years away from level 5 AVs but we are much further than so many reports have led people to believe. They perform promising in set environments and conditions and yet so many reports have given the impression we are within 5 years of self driving cars.
Even at a 99.999% success rate we will need to be willing to accept 1,420,000 accidents per year. A number far lower than we currently have but we are more forgiving of human error than we are of automation that is just suppose to work all the time.
January 27th, 2020 at 1:15 pm
John; Are crossovers classified under sedans or SUVs? I fully expect to see continued decline of sedans and the ones that stay around will continue to get a more crossover look with higher roofs and a little higher seating position. Which I also believe will bring a resurgence to the hatchback.
January 27th, 2020 at 1:22 pm
1,C
Yes, most Ferraris are used mainly as garage queens, but the people who actually drive them WOULD care about fuel economy, if for no other reason, than it determines how often you have to stop for gas. The Tesla you worship so much would lose big, even compared to the gas hog Ferrari, which would have 350 miles of highway range with a safe amount in reserve, and in 5 minutes, would be ready to go another 350 miles.
January 27th, 2020 at 1:30 pm
3 For some reason, the EPA numbers of C7s change year to year, though there were no changes to the engines are gearing that I’m aware of. I have gotten about 29.5 for munliple ~1100 mile trips with my 2016 base automatic.
I still think Rivian should rethink the front end styling of those things. It’s not too late, and shouldn’t cost much to change. Maybe the Ford will be essentially the same vehicle, and will look better.
January 27th, 2020 at 1:33 pm
8 cont.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=41688&id=39873&id=36440
January 27th, 2020 at 1:46 pm
3 I heard that they had a 7 hour stint without a caution at the Rolex 24 during the overnight. I doubt if that’s happened before.
January 27th, 2020 at 1:46 pm
With Tesla stock at ~$550/share while GM stock remains more modest, pressure from the stock holding, board of directors is likely to change GM goals and objectives. The Ford Mach-E is also instructive.
January 27th, 2020 at 2:27 pm
11 You are too charitable for GM stock. Because of its perceived potential by investors, Wall Street etc, Tesla is the number ONE Publicly Traded Automaker in the WORLD, and its value is higher than both ALL of GM and ALL of Ford combined.
Note Toyota’s value is still higher, BUT Toyota is not a publicly traded co apparently.
January 27th, 2020 at 2:34 pm
7 What amazes me, is no where in todays broadcast was there a single mention of Tesla. Yet in the comments section we get dragged down into the same old beat that dead horse to death discussion.
January 27th, 2020 at 2:37 pm
On cars vs SUV sales: I think the product mix is gradually becoming what all journalists have seemingly been long advocating for…except they are called crossover/SUVs (not wagons) and don’t come with a 5-speed & diesel.
January 27th, 2020 at 2:55 pm
I don’t know where they got their information, but CR shows the C8 Corvette as having an 18.5 gallon gas tank. It should be a good road car, with probably an easy 450 mile highway range at any speed you can drive without getting lots of tickets.
January 27th, 2020 at 2:58 pm
a computer than can identify a beer. Interesting. I would be more impressed if it could identify an ipa from a lager,or an
ale from a light beer.
January 27th, 2020 at 3:00 pm
13 You are 100% wrong. The RIVIAN segment, and the Amazon 100,000 van order there, (even tho Rivian started with NO van designs, just the weird looking truck and suv, had direct ties to Tesla, and I explained this in full detail in my post. Go read it again, and hopefully you will catch up.
January 27th, 2020 at 3:03 pm
16 It probably could, but you would have to open the beer.
January 27th, 2020 at 3:07 pm
17 No actually YOU are 100% wrong. Read carefully through the transcript you will not see a mention of Tesla. Believe it or not it doesn’t really matter what link /full detail post you had I typically skip them. Because just as today proves its the same old Tesla cheerleading hoopla without any real substance.
January 27th, 2020 at 3:08 pm
16,18 It should be able to read the label, with proper training.
January 27th, 2020 at 3:09 pm
https://fossbytes.com/25000-tesla-model-2-could-earn-elon-musk-37-5-billion/amp/?fbclid=IwAR2qPgvJZcxkXtPVuluLbZlLY_dvyZAwDvTwYw43UdTkeYEfSh1lTVVI83Y
This is new and probably inevitable. a $25,000 Tesla Model 2?
(posted especially for Lambo)
January 27th, 2020 at 3:19 pm
21 Thanks for taking extra time to post even more crap that I wont read. (Clue) This isn’t one of your dissertations or required readings to the group. Actually believe this! This isn’t the Larry automotive forum. We are not your captive audience. As far as catching up goes I’ve forgotten more automotive knowledge than you could ever post. Stuff you don’t find in books.
January 27th, 2020 at 3:54 pm
I still maintain that people like a hip point and eye height roughly the same as that of a bench-seat 1955 Chevrolet sedan and that is why SUVs and CUVs are so darned popular.
With arthritis in my cervical vertebrae, I can barely crawl into a contemporary sedan. If I don’t stop and deliberately crawl in, I invariably smack the side of my head against the drip rail.
I have held this suspicion about SUV/CUV success since the first day I drove my 1988 Jeep (XJ) Cherokee. I had a 1956 Plymouth Savoy in high school and the similarity was unmistakable.
January 27th, 2020 at 4:23 pm
23 You got me curious. I couldn’t find any information about seat height, but found that a ’55 Chevy’s roof height is lower than that of even the “compact” CUVs. The Chevy is 60.5 inches tall, while a RAV4 or CR-V is 67 inches tall. A Kia Soul is closer, at 63 inches height.
A car I drove in high school, a 1950 Plymouth, is close to the height of the CUVs, 65.6 inches. Surprisingly, a ’55 Chevy is only about 3 inches taller than a current midsize sedan, like Camry, Accord, or E-Class. The ’56 Plymouth is about the same height as the ’55-’56 Chevy. I got the dimensions from the old cars here.
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/auta_details1.php
January 27th, 2020 at 5:28 pm
#2
One of the big reasons that the number of prototypes was off this year is that many decided not to invest in the fairly new DPi. The ACO / FIA has always been rather off-putting to relinquish any inclusion of IMSA as to the rules of prototypes. However, with the decline of participation in the WEC, and even at Le Mans with only one manuf (Toyota) participating in the top class, I guess they finally saw the writing on the wall.
The agreement that they announced Friday, shows a small, but potentially seismic shift, in the timeline for introduction of the second generation of DPi protos. This apparently will allow a full season of second generation ‘DPi’ protos (to be renamed LMDh, or Le Mans Daytona – we will have to wait to see how the ‘h’ will be defined ) to compete in the full 2021/22 FIA WEC alongside the ACO-regulated Le Mans ‘Hypercars’.
In short the Hypercar and LMDh will be able to race together in a single class, with BoP (Balance of Performance) set to be used to provide a level playing field.
IMSA now will completely replace the current generation of DPi protos with LMDh from the start of their 2022 season – with the discussion still open as to whether the ACO-Le Mans Hypercars will be eligible in IMSA races. Another detail that hasn’t been worked out yet – in fact, the ACO has not been very specific about how the Hypercar is going to spec’d either.
The LMDh formula is scheduled for a staggered rollout. LMDh will debut in September of 2021 alongside Hypercars in Europe, and in IMSA, LMDh will replace the current DPi formula in January of 2022 at the onset of the new WeatherTech Championship season.
So it is easy to see why sponsors/OEMs balked at putting $$$$$ up for the new DPi chassis – with the future unknown. They tend to like to see their investment last at least 4 to 5 years – not just 1 or 2. The result is a decline this year. Apparently the LMDh will have a minimum five years cycle now.
But then I believe all but 2 entrants at Daytona plan to run the full season, so that isn’t all that bad. Better than having only 2 entrants in the top class (like ACO/WEC ~Toyota).
It has been said that more specifics will be announced at Sebring in March after the FIA world meeting in Geneva the first week in March.
Yes, the lower car count had something to do with the record distance, however, only six full-coarse caution periods for the entire 24 hour race, greatly contributed to it.
January 27th, 2020 at 5:41 pm
25 I question whether OEMs get their money’s worth out of this. Does Cadillac sell many XT5s because of their participation? It seems more relevant for Porsche, Corvette, and BMW, etc. in the GT classes.
January 28th, 2020 at 9:50 am
26 I love motorsports in general and glad that manufacturers spend the money to participate. However I think the benefit to them comes from R&D and lessons learned in building a race car. I doubt that winning races does a whole lot of anything for sales these days. Having a well designed attractive vehicle has to do more for sales than winning any race.
January 28th, 2020 at 9:57 am
27 cont- Pushing a vehicle and drivetrain to its limits will highlight its weakest links. When they have an engine failure no doubt they dig into why it failed and how to make a better design that will prevent that failure. That’s the real advantage to sponsoring a race team. Is it worth the money it takes to participate? Not sure but it certainly would raise concern if 4 out of 5 vehicles running a particular engine DNF for engine problems. Also on the other hand when all racecars running your engine finish in the top 10 says a lot about the reliability of the design.
January 28th, 2020 at 10:11 am
22 You are under the false impression that YOU are the person I am posting my links, and especially THIS link for.
I hope I can make it this as clear to you as possible:
There are a few OTHERS that participate in this forum and they can APPRECIATE the VERY important links I post 1,000 times BETTER than some dude with a fake Lambo with a Chevy engine and a Ram Pickup truck EVER will.
So do NOT think the Universe revolves around you. It sure does NOT.
January 28th, 2020 at 10:15 am
22 PS We aim to please. So if any of my posts continues to displease your majesty ( you must have posted complaints about my posts about 100 times already), give me your address and CC info and I will give you a FULL REFUND of your $.
January 28th, 2020 at 10:15 am
Cadillac has done well in the top class. Maybe they should call the car a Chevy, though. Doesn’t it have Chevy V8 power?
January 28th, 2020 at 10:29 am
29 Are you mental? You posted this (posted especially for Lambo). Direct copy from 21. Then in 29 claim you didn’t post it for me. You are either getting dementia in your old age or just focus on a idiotic reply to back-peddle from stuff you actually post.
As far as my fake lambo goes when you can even begin to build a car from the ground up then talk to me about the vehicles I own. Doubt you can manage an oil change without watching a You tube video first.
Oh and if you haven’t noticed, Which I’m sure you haven’t because you didn’t post it. I’m not the only one that has complained about your posts. Those 100s of complaints are from almost everyone on this site. Mine account for maybe 10.
Hey how many times have you said, I’ve posted this before and people always forget.. They haven’t forgotten, They skip your posts because they are just pompous boasting or snide remarks to everyone else that doesn’t think that same as you. So next time you feel you need to repeat yourself,..Dont! just know its cause people are just skipping over your posts.
January 28th, 2020 at 10:30 am
31 Yeah basically. Caddy might change some things slightly but no doubt both divisions benefit from the experience.
January 28th, 2020 at 11:31 am
#1 – In the section on Rivian, John advised that the final van for Amazon would be delivered in 2024. Perhaps if you would listen to & read the transcript instead of jumping into the never ending Tesla genuflecting.
January 28th, 2020 at 12:22 pm
29
Irony, at its finest.
January 28th, 2020 at 1:27 pm
1A) Probably not. More than likely Amazon went to Tesla and found 2 sedans, a roadster, and a low roofline SUV. Amazon needs vans. They likely asked Tesla for a van just as they asked Rivian for a van. Tesla likely declined and Rivian accepted. I doubt very much Amazon cares whether Rivian or Tesla succeeds. They just need an electric delivery van. As simple as that.
January 28th, 2020 at 2:22 pm
https://photos.google.com/?tab=iq1&pageId=none
Found a picture of Larry and his colleagues.
February 2nd, 2020 at 3:52 pm
Thank you for giving the Imsa Daytona 24 the recognition it deserves. Allstar drivers, allstar cars and latest tech in automotive that helps our cars perform better. The crocette did great for first outing but the balance of performance hurt the corvette as usual. Happy to see mazda do well and beat penske. Hard to believe konica taylor car has won 3 years in a row. Many drivers then flew to this weeks Brathurt rafe in Australia. Long flight! Impossible track. Kangaroos were on track. Find the clip. Hilarious.
February 2nd, 2020 at 3:53 pm
Corvette I meant.
February 2nd, 2020 at 3:56 pm
I highly recommend going to the Daytona 24. Best racing experience you can get. You can walk anywhere on the track, sit anywhere with good comfortable seats, talk to drivers ect. Also recommended St. Petersburg for Indycar opener in March. Check them out they are a blast.