AD #2761 – Lordstown To Debut Electric Truck in Detroit; Cadillac Updates Super Cruise; Global Car Parc Explodes

January 29th, 2020 at 11:54am

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Listen to “AD #2761 – Lordstown To Debut Electric Truck in Detroit; Cadillac Updates Super Cruise; Global Car Parc Explodes” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 8:35

0:07 Tesla to Report 2019 Earnings Tonight
1:23 Coronavirus Disrupts Auto Industry
2:41 Cadillac Updates Super Cruise
3:19 Hyundai Ioniq EV Range Boost
3:58 Karma Plans Electric Pickup
4:19 Lordstown To Debut Electric Truck at Detroit Auto Show
5:06 GM Working to Cut EV Charging Time
5:50 Nissan Offers Severance Packages to Workers
6:30 Jeep Idles Cherokee Production
7:03 Global Car Parc Explodes
7:30 Big Shift in U.S. Vehicle Preference Since 2000

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45 Comments to “AD #2761 – Lordstown To Debut Electric Truck in Detroit; Cadillac Updates Super Cruise; Global Car Parc Explodes”

  1. Larry D. Says:

    Ioniq BEV: The only reason to buy this loser is the Fed Tax credit and the state and local ones. It is a disgrace that the Fed Tax credit is still available to the LOSERS (those who still have not managed to sell 200,000 BEVs and Plug-ins), but is denied to the Winners, like a Reverse Natural Selection and Survival of the dumbest! (GM, thanks to the Volt mainly, and of course Tesla, have NO Fed tax credit).

    If you remove the ill conceived Fed tax credit, which benefits the wealthier, since the poor pay few taxes to deduct it from, AND is massive transfer of wealth from the AVERAGE Taxpayer to the very affluent (median income 170,000+) who buy these green vehicles, then you can have an even playing field.

    AND in that field, the Ioniq is DOA, since at a(only starting, base) price of $33,000, it is far inferior to the Model 3 from every point of view. ANd comparably equipped and adjusting for performance, the Model 3 runs cirles around it, as it does around the Bolt, the E Mach thingy and any other.

  2. Larry D. Says:

    The Lordstown truck may be a GM venture, but it looks far more like an F 150 than a Silverado. I don’t know if Ford has a suit here, but it might try to scare these clowns so that the production version is not as similar.

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Why I was driving, Larry asked if there was even one state that taxed EVs more than gas cars. There is, and here’s one of several articles about it.

  4. Larry D. Says:

    Nissan and its ill conceived campaign to surpass Honda in US sales is now officially a FIASCO.

    Similarly, VWs earlier goal of selling 800,000 Vehicles in the US failed miserably, and if anything, the once tiny Subaru may get there first.

    WHat is wrong with these two campaigns? Obviously, their silly goals.

    The RIGHT goal would be to build the best car in its class. OR the most fuel efficient, or the best performer. Not meaningless pissing contests like the two above.

    Now everybody related to Nissan is miserable. Blue and white collar workers, soon Dealers and those working at dealerships, and of course, as always, the suppliers, who pay the price for the stupidity of their customers.

  5. ChuckGrenci Says:

    The Lordstown pickup is, to me, the best application of design to an electric pickup that I’ve seen so far. I like it.

  6. Larry D. Says:

    Re the world car population, I strongly disagree that it is anywhere close to saturation. If you mean just for the US (and Europe and Japan), maybe. But you mentioned this in the context of WORLD car population.

    That will keep growing at a healthy rate. China is nowhere near saturation, and has the $ and infrastructure for hundreds of millions of extra cars. INDIA has not even begun a serious car population. And on and on.

  7. Larry D. Says:

    Finally, in anticipation of Tesla’s earnings for the year. WHether it will turn its first annual profit or not is utterly unimportant to me and will not change the high regard I have for Musk and his people one iota. This is NOT a mature cash cow like Coca COla which charges $1.50 for two liters of colored, flavored fizzy water, which costs it 5 cents to produce and 50 cents to advertise so fools buy it. This is a company in its INFANCY. And when you have an infant, you don’t expect profits, even if you are a… pimp!

    And as far as Musk surprises, the one that will impress me the most is if he announces that they will produce a $20-25k Model 2 in China, (where they can make it at a profit, and the demand is next door) in another new plant with 1 million a year or more capacity.

  8. Larry D. Says:

    Hyundai Kia may have failed for the 15th time in trying to sell luxury cars, BUT they are getting much better in SUVs, which is key to their turnaround. AND after the very successful launch of the Kia Telluride big SUV, they hit again with a small SUV that not only starts at only $17k, but ALSO looks far better than the porkers from GM (Buick Encore, Chevy Trax) and even the crazy styling of the HRV and the small Toyota, which must cost much more.

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 I’ll be surprised if the hub motors are very efficient, but they should be great for packaging, allowing a low load floor, and maybe a big “frunk.”

  10. Lambo2015 Says:

    It would be interesting to see the % of buyers that pay for Cadillac’s Super Cruise. Plus how much is that option? Would give an indication if people are that interested in this feature and what they are willing to pay to have it.

    The big shift in US vehicle preference explains the push for EV trucks.

  11. GaryPaul Says:

    Hmmm. Regarding the comment on growth in automotive sales, what is meant by “the saturation point for planet Earth?” What is meant by saturation?–In what way? Do you mean it is not possible to produce more vehicles? Why not? Do you mean that it isn’t “Green” to produce more vehicles than that? As capitalism generally spreads (and hopefully continues to do so) more and more people have lifted themselves out of poverty and they will want some type of vehicle whether electric powered or not, especially as they move into the middle class. Yes, if they do not intelligently design infrastructure, roads, highways, do not enforce good traffic laws, or if emission controls are not enforced (such as in many third world countries like the Philippines where I lived for 3.5 years), yeah then i can see concerns about reaching a saturation point. But having lived with a car or truck in areas that have acceptable or even quite good roadways and decent emission controls I do not see why we are reaching a saturation point. Perhaps I am missing something. I mean this sounds a little like The Great Horse-Manure Crisis of 1894, where horse manure, horse urine, and horse dead bodies lying on the street were problems that all modern cities of the world experienced back about 1900. They honestly thought there was no way we could figure out how to deal the mountains of horse refuse, spewed out onto the streets each day. The massive problem had gained worldwide attention but was rapidly ended with the advent of the affordable motorcar…

  12. Larry D. Says:

    3 Thanks for the link, but as I read it, I see that all of these are just PROPOSALS, none has been enacted (sure not the ones that allegedly charge BEVs three times what the average gas driver pays).

    And since they claim the measures are NOT punitive and only try to make BEV drivers, correctly, to ALSO pay their fair share of highway maintenance etc, I really doubt that any of them really WILL ever charge BEV drivers even 10% more what gas drivers pay. Othwerwise, if our journalists ever did their job, they should challenge them about it.

  13. Lambo2015 Says:

    1) If the Gov really want to provide an EV incentive they should just offer a cash rebate.
    Get away from a tax break for the rich.
    Wouldn’t have to wait till tax time to get the incentive.
    Could come off the sticker price so its not financed
    People would actually see a lower cost to buy an EV. The current system requires a buyer to finance a 40K vehicle and then get potentially 7k off their taxes the first year, meanwhile their stuck with payments and interest on that 7K for likely the next 5 years.

  14. Kevin A Says:

    Larry, Try to see the EV subsidy policy in terms of ITS goals, not YOURS. The government wants to encourage MANY EV manufacturers, not create a monopoly for one. So far it has produced one winner (TESLA) and one not-dead-yet (GM). Once there are 5 decent manufacturers, maybe it is time to stop the subsidies. Since Tesla is already up to speed on volume it does not need a subsidy.

  15. Lambo2015 Says:

    11 I was wondering the same thing. Saturation meaning; 1)Current roads cannot handle anymore volume? 2)Resources depleted preventing the build of new cars? 3)Air quality cannot handle anymore vehicles? or 4)Everyone in the world has got at least one car and no more are needed. None of the above seems to be true so please explain saturation point..

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    12 I think some are in effect, and some are proposals. I’ll check that. As far as I’m concerned, laws that would have EVs pay triple what the gas tax would be for an “average,” gas vehicle are punitive.

  17. Larry D. Says:

    14 I am amazed that, after explaining it clearly again and again, you still did not at all understand what I said, which has NOTHING, I repeat so that you hear it, NOTHING to do with Myself or MY goals, and everything with JUSTICE and EFFICIENCY and the survival of the FITTEST and not the DUmbest. I do not have the time to tutor you so that you also, after everybody else here, understood what I clearly wrote.

    As Lambo said, NO tax credit to the wealthy (and of course I would personally 100% benefit from that), but a REBATE. AND as I said, NO to the survival of the DUMBEST, but reward the WINNERS who have the best product, for the benefit of not just ME but ALL.

    And if you still think that getting the AVERAGE US taxpayer, who pays for the tax credits, to subsidize the average buyer of green cars, who have THREE TIMES ($170,000+) the income of that taxpayer, makes sense to you, then you are really a hopeless case.

    The current system is a reverse Robin Hood, taking from the poor and giving it to the rich, and is absulutely UN acceptable.

    I hate to waste time to repeat the obvious for the 100th time every time somebody makes a false charge.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    12,5 At least two states, Louisiana and Wyoming already have EV fees that are more than double what the gas tax would be for a typical vehicle.

  19. Lambo2015 Says:

    15 Cont- Many large cities have reached their saturation point in the amount of vehicles that occupy their roads. L.A. and NY probably a long time ago. They’ve reached it by what can move around the city efficiently and in available parking spots. They need to have limits like building fire codes restricting the amount of people allowed in a building at one time. For years when we got close to those limits we just built more roads or added lanes. We build more parking garages basically fix the problem but cities that are fully developed with very expensive property don’t have the financial ability to just buy up more property and widen the highways or add new roads. Hence the double decker hwys in Cali. So although I agree some areas have reached a saturation point of what the infrastructure can handle it still is a problem that can be solved with money. Just a matter of priorities and how much people are willing to spend.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    19 Cars, other than taxis, just don’t make much sense in big cities, especially those with good public transportation, like London, Paris, NYC (sort of), and by now, probably Shanghai. The traffic is a mess, probably half of it driving around looking for a parking place, and city garages are a waste of space that could be used for something else.

  21. GM Veteran Says:

    Lordstown Motors and its Endurance pickup are not GM ventures. GM sold LMC the plant; that’s all. And, this is just an art rendering. Nothing to take too seriously at this point.

  22. Lambo2015 Says:

    17 Larry no one needs your tutoring, the point I believe Kevin was making is that the government is trying to jump start a technology. Not any particular manufacturer. Knowing that it takes often times 3 to 4 years to bring a vehicle to market it wouldn’t be fair to provide all the incentives to whoever just happen to be first. Just as its not fair to offer more to the manufacturer that just happens to sell more. They want to promote the technology throughout the industry and give all manufacturers a chance to come to the party and get rewarded the same incentive initially until they sell 200k. Seems fair and doesn’t benefit one manufacturer over another. However I would agree that it should have had a price limit of say 50k to even get the tax break. Don’t think our tax dollars should be used to help people buy 80K cars.

  23. Lambo2015 Says:

    20 Yeah! While living in L.A. we would Uber most places especially the airport. We could get a ride from Hollywood to the airport for like $25 and a single day parking was over that. In fact parking most places justified the Uber cost. If I was in a hurry I would take the motorcycle. That’s about the only real efficient way to get around that city.

  24. John McElroy Says:

    @all commenters:

    At Autoline, we strive to post thought-provoking content for our viewers. Please keep your comments respectful so that we can continue to have lively discussion on this forum.
    Thank you!

    - The Autoline Team

  25. GM Veteran Says:

    22 – Well put Lambo!

    7 – Since Tesla has been selling cars for ten years now, I hardly think they qualify as an infant in the car business. And, if they can’t produce an annual profit by this time, maybe their business model is flawed. The other major automakers that you like to characterize as fools, do regularly make annual profits AND pay dividends to their stockholders. Tesla may have a soaring stock price and some interesting products, but I won’t be a shareholder when the Musk music stops and the share price comes crashing back to earth. Many people like to say that Tesla is viewed as a technology company, not a car company. But, selling cars (and CAFE credits) is how they pay their bills, so like it or not, they need to find a way to produce a profit in the business they are actually in.

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    23 I’d probably find it too risky to want to ride a motorcycle in LA, but it would be a good way to get around, and easier to find parking than for a car.

  27. ArtG Says:

    24 Thanks, John, but it seems that chief offender never seems to get the message.

  28. veh Says:

    agree with 27. Don’t punish the whole class because one kid was misbehaving :)

  29. cwolf Says:

    Has anyone read info on how super chargers effect battery life? Specifically, I wonder the effect of using an 800 V charger vs a 400 V one. I’ve read that it does have an effect but then again most charging is done at home. Another question that would follow would be,; How often can a higher V charger be used before a noticeable difference in battery life be realized?

  30. cwolf Says:

    All good comments about auto saturation points. IMO, a main limiting factor would be how many people will be able to purchase a car in any country. As we all know, mortgages extend way beyond the old standard 3 years and as time passes they owe more than the car is worth. And EVs cost more than the average family can afford.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 I suspect the more fast charges the batteries see, the less long they will last. At least it’s that way with batteries for my model airplane. I suspect keeping the batteries cool during fast charging helps a lot, though.

    Isn’t part, or most of the 800 vs 400 volt thing just to reduce the size of the wire needed between the charger and the car?

  32. Drew Says:

    I agree with 27 & 28. Thanks John.

  33. Lambo2015 Says:

    29 All good questions, and there might be some info from lab tests. However considering how new the technology is, and these new faster chargers are being developed I would bet there isn’t any real world data to reference.
    If I were an owner of an EV and mostly charged at home, I would want to know if taking 2 or 3 trips a year using fast chargers is going to reduce my battery life by a month or 3 years. If it was real damaging to the life span then you’d really have to consider if its worth the time savings to use a rapid charger.

    Also it would be even more concerning buying a used EV. Was it mostly charged slowly or rapid charged all the time? Wonder if there will be a way to check battery health per say. When you start talking $7000 batteries those are major concerns. Kinda like did previous owner of the ICE change the oil?

  34. cwolf Says:

    The faster you charge a battery, the likelihood of a build up ( scum) on the plated and anode. This is why the battery is cooled. Doing so is about 80-90 % efficient or something like that. This build up is not good for battery life.

  35. Kevin A Says:

    Larry, Did it ever occur to you that your explanations are not clear. (Please note that repeating your same incorrect point is not clarification). The government policy is intended to produce MANY EV players. Period. You don’t have to like it, but the intention of the policy is clear.

  36. cwolf Says:

    Larry probably will mind his manners for now but will try his limits.
    If we all can agree, I think the best way to handle this unfortunate situation is not to respond to any of his comments for awhile. At least not until his comments have conformed to something “ normal” for a week or two. Maybe then he will get the hint that we all value the forum which we are a daily part of.

  37. Bobby T Says:

    36, a great idea. Let’s try it. And, if we don’t even read the offending comments, think how much faster we could get through the good ones.

  38. Ctech Says:

    For current (no pun intended) used electric vehicles is there quick, convenient way to test the battery life without taking it back to a dealer? How can you tell how much life is left in a Tesla, Bolt, or Leaf battey pack?

  39. Larry D. Says:

    18 Both LA and WY have fossil fuel industries that produce most of their local govt revenues. This may explain it, assuming again that the BEV owners really pay that much more than the ICE owners. Otherwise I can’t think of another reason why they would penalize BEVs.

  40. Larry D. Says:

    The numbers speak for themselves. See especially how the most crucial Model 3 Production keeps reaching new highs every single quarter and has NO sign of flattening.

  41. Larry D. Says:

    Oh, and for the myopic among you, here it is, the first ever Tesla ANNUAL PROFIT.

    I did say yesterday that this will not change the highest esteem I have for BRILLIANT Musk and Tesla ONE IOTA, and I 100% stick by my statement. But if you have myopia, and most of Wall Street does, you may be impressed by it. Beads and Mirrors. Expect a further skyrocketing of T E S L A stock.

  42. Larry D. Says:

    41 I was SO right again!

    “Tesla’s shares jumped in after-hours trading, rising more than 12 percent to more than $650 a share.”

    Remember a few short months ago when they were at 180 and the usual Tesla hating ignoramuses (or is it ignorami) here predicted it would go bankrupt? Fat chance.

    But I am more impressed by the other news, that Model Y, which is expected to sell as much as ALL current Tesla models COMBINED, production, is AHEAD of schedule.

  43. Larry D. Says:

  44. cwolf Says:

    38) Ctech, the only way I know to test a battery is to simply use your meter to check the voltage. In the case of a battery pack, each battery would have to be checked individually to determine which battery cannot hold a proper charge.
    I had my car in service three times to correct a computer problem that caused all kinds of errors, blinking lights, break locking up and other nuisances. I was so ticked off I decided to look for something simple, like checking the battery. I was only getting about a quarter for the output. The battery was an easy fix at only $200. The 3 service trips cost over$600! Yup…. the dealer gave me my money back.

  45. Brett Cammack Says:

    Reed Nissan in Orlando has a 2015 Nissan LEAF S for $9k with about 40-50k miles on it. That’s a decent price point for something I could commute to work in for a week on a single charge.

    With regard to battery condition, I believe these vehicles have some sort of a battery life (not state of charge) indicator, no?

    I am enjoying watching Tesla’s success from the sidelines, BTW.