AD #2762 – Tesla Posts 2019 Results; Lincoln Confirms Rivian-Based EV; Frankfurt to Stop Hosting IAA

January 30th, 2020 at 11:55am

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Listen to “AD #2762 – Tesla Posts 2019 Results; Lincoln Confirms Rivian-Based EV; Frankfurt to Stop Hosting IAA” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 8:33

0:07 Tesla Reports 2019 Results, Stock Jumps
1:21 Tesla’s Sales & Financial Numbers
1:56 Model Y Range Greater Than Expected
3:14 Lincoln Confirms Rivian-Based EV
3:39 UPS Buys 10,000 Arrival Delivery Vans
4:25 Mercedes May Drop F1 Constructor Role
5:15 Lordstown Truck Sparks GM Impact Prototype Memory
6:06 Global Production Down Again
6:35 Frankfurt to Stop Hosting German Auto Show
7:09 Head of JLR Retires
7:42 President Signs USMCA

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41 Comments to “AD #2762 – Tesla Posts 2019 Results; Lincoln Confirms Rivian-Based EV; Frankfurt to Stop Hosting IAA”

  1. Larry D. Says:

    A. The Lincoln Rivian BEV: “it’s going to be stunning.” Translation: “All Hat and No Cattle”. Who wants to bet that, even when it arrives, years and years later than the Model 3 and a decade later than the Model S, it will have

    1. Far inferior RANGE to either of them and

    2. Far inferior MPGe.

    B. Why is the UPS playing sugardaddy to this unknown “Arrival” outfit? THey would do much, much better to partner with Rivian, and if not available, even better, of course, with Tesla.

    C. Mercedes should drop F1 silliness altogether. I could understdand a maker like Porsche or BMW participating, who sell cars based on performance and “FUN to drive”.

    Mercedeses are superbly engineered cars, but for ADULTS. They are Conservative vehicles, very SATISFYING to drive, but do not pretend they are drag strip vehicles or supercars. They do not have to either.

    D. The F-150 (and NOT the silly Impact EV) clone Lordstown truck. As I said, Ford should take them to court and WARN them that the PRODUCTION version better NOT look so much like the F 150. THey should take an example from the crooks at Mahindra and Jeep.

  2. Lambo2015 Says:

    Defiantly could see influence from the Impact on the Lordstown truck. As for it looking like an F-series. Not anymore than it looks like a Chevy. It at lease has the same boxed out wheel arches like a Chevy.

  3. Lambo2015 Says:

    1C apparently you never heard of the AMG division.

  4. Larry D. Says:

    4 3 PS what do F1 cars and an S 65 AMG have in common? NOTHING.

    Mercedes can do its R&D in house and save BILLIONs instead of the silly F1 races. Let the others do F1.

  5. ChuckGrenci Says:

    2, Lambo, absolutely correct: That rear tailgate could have easily had Colorado stamped on it and it would look like it belonged. (and the front end doesn’t look bad either)

  6. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Some breaking news on an electric Hummer from TFL truck, if interested:

  7. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’d hate to see Mercedes leave F1 as a constructor. They have a long, storied history in the sport, almost up there with Ferrari. Maybe they don’t want to risk a possible, or likely slide from dominant, to merely competitive with the coming rules changes.

  8. wmb Says:

    I glad for Tesla and their successes and I know that they have more product in the pipeline (Semi, coupe and such), but where are they on the Model S replacement? Most OEM’s have their vehicles on a 6-8 year product cycle, but with the Model S having hit the market around 2010, it’s become a little long in the tooth. That’s not to say that they haven’t kept their vehicle technologically up to dated, for its probably still years ahead of their closest competitor in terms of software and hardware beneath the vehicle metal skin. Yet outside of a few minor exterior and interior updates, there appears to be very little change from the original version and today’s. I have no complaints with is styling, but why would someone replace their old one, when it’s the same as the new one? Even with the complaints of the previous generation Silverado looked just like the one before it, buyers still had the confidence that it was built on the most up to date pick-up architecture GM was using at the time. But a new Tesla Model S is the same platform as the older Model S, with a little nip and tuck work on the inside and out. I’m a fan of Tesla and see them as the EV standard of excellence, though there still are a few things they have to work through. One of those being a schedule of replacement of their older products. It doesn’t have to be on in same time frame as legacy OEM’s, but waiting 10-15 years to get the new version of say the Model S, may cause some casual customers to flirt with other EV brands until the new arrives!

  9. GM Veteran Says:

    1 – UPS has been working with Arrival for nearly five years and has actively participated in the development of the 2nd generation Arrival model.

    UPS has an order in with Tesla for some of its Semi trucks, whenever those finally come to market. I think UPS is smart for working with a variety of different developers and OEMs to create vehicles that meet their different sets of needs. I think we all will enjoy electric delivery trucks vs the clouds of diesel exhaust most of them emit now.

  10. GM Veteran Says:

    So, even though Tesla had some better news in this quarterly update vs others, they are still a money-losing operation. If not for the sale of the emissions credits (which are 100% profit), their results would have been dismal. One day, no other OEM is going to need to buy their credits. Hopefully by then, they won’t need this financial crutch.

    Even with the ridiculous increase in their share price, Tesla is a long way from eclipsing publicly traded Toyota, which has a market cap of $200 billion.

  11. Larry D. Says:


    If you are really serious, you will admit that because of the compelling Economic and Demographic FACTS, any MINOR drop in the above will be UTTERLY insignificant, AND the long term trend is one that will go from REcord to new Record, AND 30 years from now will DWARF today’s numbers. WHy do you make me repeat the facts again and again? DO you really think CHINA has even begun to saturate with cars? And what about INDIA?

  12. Bob Wilson Says:

    We just took our Model 3 on a six day, 1,980 mile trip, costing $59.25 in EV charges. Given gas at ~$2.25/gal, that would be ~26.7 gallons or 74.2 MPG. Worst case, the winter weather, ~40 F, rainy, with head winds, and high speeds yet quite affordable.

    A month earlier, an over-the-air update increased the peak charge rate from 100 kW to 170 kW. Although Supercharger speeds vary 120, 150, 250 kW, in practice charging speeds peaked at 150 kW. Typical SuperCharger sessions took less than 20 minutes to reach the next charger which we combined with drive-in dining.

    This trip was cheaper than our former Prius Prime, ~55 MPG in nice weather, and a fraction of any other 5-seat, sedan.

  13. XA351GT Says:

    I for one wouldn’t be upset to see Mercedes go. I’d love to see Lewis actually try to set up his own cars. He is the luckiest guy in the garage. He stepped into McLaren at the top of their game with the cars all set up . As soon as the team started down he couldn’t right it. Then he stepped into a car that was ready to dominate at Mercedes after Rosberg and Schumacher did all the heavy lifting with the car development. To hear people even try to compare him to Schumacher irritates me. He developed 3 teams from mid pack to winning teams in his career. Had he stayed at Mercedes at least another year I believe he would have added to his win totals. We will never know. We do know that Lewis hasn’t developed a car on his yet in his career. Throw him in a mid pack team like Renault and see if he makes the podium .

  14. Larry D. Says:

    12 Very, very few sedans are really five seaters.

    Especially the 2nd gen Prius, which I was unfortunate enough to have to crouch in the back, its back seat could hold not even ONE adult, because of its terrible Head room (and leg room), or lack thereof.

    The Model 3′s back seat (I hear) is also not much to write home about.

    If you take a long highway trip, NO car, even gigantic flagship models, can hold three in the back seat in COMFORT, which is really needed for such a trip.

    So that prius II had room for two adults up front and at best three tiny kids in the back. Or three very petite females, but they would NOT travel in comfort on a long trip.

    In fact, a few days ago I thought about this and wished automaker STOP pretending their cars can take five or more adults on a long trip. NONE of them can, not in even basic comfort. Maybe a Suburban can take 8 or 9 in comfort, but even that is a compromise.

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    13 Didn’t Hamilton at least partly make his “luck,” in knowing to move from McLaren to Mercedes, kind of like Alonso made his bad “luck” with most of what he did, after the good years with Renault. It would be interesting to see Hamilton on the same team as Verstapin or LeCler, though.

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14 A 3rd generation Prius is reasonably comfortable for two in the back seat, but kind of narrow for three.

    Does anyone claim that their sedans are comfortable for five large adults on long trips? I don’t think so. As far as carrying more than 5 people comfortably, minivans are the way to go, better than Suburban, or any other big SUV, and for less money with better mpg.

  17. ChuckGrenci Says:

    13,15 I have to give Hamilton credit to make that move, to up until then, unproven M/B. Maybe luck but he did take the chance. It would have been interesting to see top of heep Ferarri up against the now top of the heep Mercedes but I guess we’ll just have to wonder. And you could also include top of the heep RedBull (if you wanted).

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    17 Didn’t Rosberg quit after winning a championship, knowing that Hamilton was better, and that it was very unlikely he (Rosberg) would repeat? If that’s not a lot of why he quit, let me know.

  19. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Larry #11 – And we’ll be right here reporting when they do go from record to new record.

  20. ChuckGrenci Says:

    18, Kit, Could be, he (Rosberg) knew it would be another uphill fight but with F1 politics and under dealings there’s no telling what made Nico leave. He seems happy (to be gone from the team) as he as been interviewed at races and doesn’t seem to hold any grudges either but I’m sure we aren’t privy to all the facts behind the retirement.

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    20 Yeah, he always seems happy when he’s on the TV broadcasts. He probably has enough money to last a few hundred lifetimes, and there’s a lot less pressure now.

  22. XA351GT Says:

    I believe Rosberg retired after winning the title ,because he achieved what he had set out to do. He only wanted and needed to win a single championship to make him satisfied with his career. He got to go out on top something many don’t do and stay to long at the party so to speak. I wouldn’t be surprised that he saw the writing on the wall that the team wouldn’t be able to keep 2 number 1 drivers happy and probably felt that Lewis was going to get more help in the team then he would have.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 et. al.

    I found this, which makes sense, and kind of goes along with what you said, XA, about “going out on top.”

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 Nico got more help from the team in 2016, when Lewis’ car blew up at Malasia, and Nico’s didn’t. Yeah, that was just a “stuff happens” occurance.

  25. Lambo2015 Says:

    12 Bob, I appreciate that you keep such great records of real world use on your model 3. Knowing that the cost in charging equates to about 74 MPG provides a real good comparison to using an EV on a trip. Do you have an idea the calculated MPG when charging at home as I assume what you pay for a charge has to be less? I would imagine that’s harder to calculate without a separate meter on your home charger. Sounds like the car works out great for you, but your retired a the charging time on a trip doesn’t sound like a big deal to you. Currently for me time is worth more than saving a few bucks and if on a trip I don’t like to waste anymore time on the road than I have to. So even a 15 min charge would be a nuisance to me. No doubt by time I’m retired charging will be as quick as a fill up. Thanks for the info!

  26. Larry D. Says:

    Listened to AAH, of course only the second half, not the silly AV debate.

    I am really surprised at the lack of understanding by some and in one case ALL of the panelists.

    Example 1: All agreed that just because Porsche priced the BEV Taycan at close to $200,000 ( and John’s two friends paid more than $200,000 due to options that are standard on most other cars),

    JUST because they paid $200,000 or even $250,000 a piece, this proves that the Taycan will make Porsche a ton of $, like its ICE cars do (they generate $20k profit per unit)

    NOTHING could be further from the truth, as a reason.

    Does none of you experts know that when VW built the Bugatti Veyron, it sold it for $1,000,000 to $2,000,000 and STILL Lost $3,000,000 PER CAR it sold????

    (and Bugatti, like Porsche, are part of the VW group)

    Second example: The panel raved about the silly GM Hammer, praised GM to high heaven because, after it admittedly screwed up with the Bolt, which never sold and lost $9,000 a unit, they now went to the other extreme and came up with this “Hummer” EV with the 1,000 HP and this and that.

    BUT, they did not at all mention, at the lofty price the Hummer BEV will sell, how many UNITS will they sell? I would bet, far FEWER than the Model S and the Model X, not to mention the 800 lb gorilla, the Model 3 and the Model Y soon!

    SO, AT BEST, this SILLY Hummer, is a ‘flagship’ or ‘curio’ BEV few will buy, and I am not even sure if GM will make a DIME off it. The fake Mustang from Ford may have a better chance, both in units sold, AND even in profitability.

  27. Larry D. Says:

    16 You just repeat what I said.

    And I also said, and I repeat, NO Sedan and I would say NO vehicle whatsoever has a back seat where three can travel IN COMFORT on a long trip.

    This means LEGROOM an adult male can STRETCH his legs, and Headroom so your neck does not hurt, like in the god-awful back seat of the Prius II, AND ELBOW ROOM so you are not packed like sardines. Seriously. NO CAR, even 78″ and 80″ wide dinosaurs from the past, can carry three in DECENT COMFORT, which is NEEDED for a LONG TRIP.

    I can squeeze in any back seat if the trip is 1-2 miles around town, but NOT for any duration long trip.

    The huge back seat of the 740iL I used to drive is strictly for TWO, especially on long trips, because of its RWD, the middle seat is for dwarfs and amputees only. AND the headroom was NOT good, when I sat upright in the back, my hair would brush against the roof. AND all this in a huge 4,300 lb 202″ 120″ wheelbase flagship $100,000 sedan, with HUGE LEG room in the back.

    If this was the situation in the 740iL, what hope does your Kia Rio really have?

    SO let’s agree. NO car or SUV can carry 3 in comfort. The Suburban may be ok in its 2nd row, but its third row may be very challenged for 3, and even for 2, due to much lower headroom, legroom AND elbow room if the tires get in the way.

  28. Lambo2015 Says:

    1,4, Might want to check this out;

  29. Lambo2015 Says:

    28 cont- or this;

    You just might see a MB-AMG at the drag strip.

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    25 I’m retired, but I still wouldn’t like the extra hours it would take to do my twice a year 1100 mile trip between FL and IN with a BEV. Still, I’d like a BEV as a “most of the time” car, if I had a way to charge it at home. I normally travel alone on my longer trips, a big difference from Bob’s situation.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    27,16 …I said no one CLAIMS that their sedans are comfortable for long trips, with 3 large people in in back seat.

    Also, since when was comfort NEEDED for long trips? Yeah, it’s nice, but needed? Airplanes aren’t that comfortable, and but people survive flying in them.

  32. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I believe the GMC Hummer is an extension to the GMC Denali (concept, and i.e. the Buick Avenir). And even the word hummer can be slightly interpreted as an electric (due to some of the sound emanations it will make). We’re in the era of innovation, throw it out there, see what sticks; some will fail, some will soar. Tesla’s on a roll and may lead the pack for the foreseeable future, but everyone else doesn’t pack their bags and genuflect…………..they compete dammit.

  33. Lambo2015 Says:

    31 For those that feel comfort is needed, pay to fly 1st class. But yeah there is a difference from wants and needs.

  34. Larry D. Says:

    While this pickup looked good in black last summer, it still was a lousy Nissan with Mercedes logos, and finally the dogs got wise and stopped eating this dogfood, and, long story short, Mercedes Killed it.

    Good riddance.

  35. Larry D. Says:

    34 PS it is surprising they never tried to sell this POS in the Pickup-friendly North Am market. I assume they did a market survey and found that Mercedes owners and the like, while they are buying a ton of SUVs, don’t care for pickups.

  36. Lambo2015 Says:

    32 Yep! and when your on top like Tesla currently is they say there is only one way to go (down). However I don’t believe that. Assuming your competition is improving if you maintain a lead your also improving. Better yet widen the gap. Is Tesla doing that? Maybe in volume but the next couple years is going to be a true test.
    Its nice to hear sales doubled but in an emerging market that should be expected and isn’t as impressive as say Kenmore doubling is washing machine sales. When almost every automaker (including the new EV only ones) have a full BEV on sale things will start to shake out.
    Tesla no doubt is the leader which could be a good or bad thing. They could be building a solid consumer base that will be repeat buyers. Or worse case as consumers are fickle and like whats new and shiny. Future EV buyers could think of Tesla as the leader and buying one is like being just another sheep in the flock. Time will tell.

  37. Kit Gerhart Says:

    34,35 They probably decided that their was a limit to how much they would cheapen the Mercedes-Benz brand in the US, and that limit was the CLA.

  38. Larry D. Says:

    half hour video with a ton of details of that cute “Honda E” BEV hatch.

    They allege this is the BEV that BEV haters love.

    I would say it’s the BEV that HONDA LOVERS love.

  39. Bob Wilson Says:

    #25 – asked, “Do you have an idea the calculated MPG when charging at home as I assume what you pay for a charge has to be less?” Actually I do.

    My home charger (JuiceBox 4 Pro) has a network connection and records every charge session. The residential charging rate is $0.11/kWh and I’m getting 4.5-5.0 miles per kWh (weather, rain, speed dependent.) Doing the math using $2.25/gal, 20.45 kWh or ~92-102 MPG.

    Of course my driving style, reaching the opposite side of an intersection and the speed limit first may not be the most efficient approach but it sure is fun.

    BTW, requirements come first and we have two, retired adults and her three dogs. So far, no complaints. Travel time is important.

    To charge the car, we stop at a fast food place for potty break and take-out, ~10 minutes. We then drive to the charger and spend 15-20 minutes eating and charging for the next leg. Each leg takes ~2-3 hours at traffic highway speed for ~120-200 miles. As for time, did I mention we’re retired?

  40. Larry D. Says:

    Yesterday I was recycling some old car mags at home and keeping the rest, and came across a Porsche 911 Turbo test from the late 90s, they almost ran out of fuel and attributed it to the fact that, at 180 MPH (181.x they did), the MPG is in the “low single digits”, which means at most 4 MPG to me, literally. COmpare this with the alleged difficulties to take a Tesla Roadster with its normal 620 mile range on the track.

  41. Lambo2015 Says:

    40 Yeah nothing like comparing vehicles of completely different technologies and 30 year gap.