AD #2769 – DoJ Ends Antitrust Probe; Geely & Volvo Combine Businesses; Will Cybertruck Inspire More Radical Design?
February 10th, 2020 at 11:54am
Listen to “AD #2769 – DoJ Ends Antitrust Probe; Geely and Volvo Combine Businesses; Will Cybertruck Inspire More Radical Design?” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 9:29
0:15 Geely & Volvo Combine Businesses
0:52 Department of Justice Ends Antitrust Probe
1:27 Tesla’s Short Term Issues
3:08 Will Cybertruck Inspire More Radical Design?
5:00 Daimler Boosts Number of Job Cuts
5:28 Ford Creates Emoji Jacket
6:03 New Chrysler Pacifica Design Feedback
7:46 Automakers Begin to Resume Production in China
8:31 Chinese Consumers Reject 3-Cylinder Engines
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“I think both the old, and new Pacifica looks pretty good, and except for maybe reliability, it’s the best minivan out there.” We’ve got your thoughts and much more on today’s Autoline Daily.
This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
GEELY & VOLVO COMBINE BUSINESSES
When Geely bought Volvo, the idea was to leave it as a stand-alone Swedish car company. Not anymore. Geely is going to absorb Volvo into one global business unit. It will have listings in both Hong Kong and Stockholm and each car brand would maintain their unique identity, meaning there won’t be rebadged versions of vehicles. The auto industry is going through a slowdown, at the same time automakers must invest heavily in new technologies. So by combining their businesses, Volvo and Geely hope to create financial and technological synergies between the two companies.
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ENDS ANTITRUST PROBE
In September of last year, the Trump Administration revoked California’s rights to set its own emission standards, but several automakers, including BMW, Ford, Honda and Volkswagen said they would still comply with any requirements put in place by the state. That led the federal government to launch an investigation into those automakers to see if they broke any antitrust laws. The Associated Press reports that the Justice Department found no wrongdoing and has ended its investigation. But California’s legal fight with the government is still ongoing.
TESLA’S SHORT TERM ISSUES
Tesla stock soared to the stratosphere this year. It hit a high of $887 last week, then dropped to $748 as some investors decided to sell and take some profit. Many investors believe it will crack $1,000 a share, and an investment group called Ark predicts it will hit somewhere between $7,000 and $15,000 a share in the next 5 years. But we think investors should be wary of a short-term correction, and here’s the warning signs to be on the lookout for. Sales of Tesla’s cars plummeted in the U.S. market last year and again in January. Tesla was able to overcome that by shipping cars to China and Europe. But with its gigafactory in China, Tesla won’t be exporting many cars there from Fremont. That leaves Europe, but we don’t know what’s going on there yet. Europe seems to take forever to report sales. The only January numbers we have so far are from Norway, the Netherlands and Spain. And Tesla sales are down sharply there. But those are small markets, so we really need to see what happened in the rest of Europe, and those numbers are just coming in. If they show a drop-in sales, it could trigger a stock correction. But keep this in mind. Tesla’s car sales always start out low at the beginning of each quarter and build strongly at the end of each quarter. So even if sales look weak right now, they could look good at the end of March. And we offer this insight so that all you Autoline Daily viewers can have a leg up on what’s going on in the market.
WILL CYBERTRUCK INSPIRE MORE RADICAL DESIGN?
And speaking of Tesla, it grabbed the attention of the automotive world when it unveiled the Cybertruck last year. It’s hard to believe a traditional automaker would introduce a vehicle with such radical styling, so how are the designers that work at those companies reacting to the Cybertruck? On last week’s Autoline After Hours we were joined by John Manoogian, a design veteran in the auto industry and here’s what he had to say.
John Manoogian, Director of Design, Quadrobot Corporation
“Are the designers today, looking at that Tesla and saying ‘Should we do something? Or should we just dismiss it?’ I’d like to think, and I don’t know this for a fact because I’m not in there, but I’d like to think that they’re asking themselves some serious questions about ‘what are we going to do next? Are we going to keep doing the same thing over and over until we’re out of business? Or are we going to respond with our own Cybertruck’, whatever that is. I don’t know, we’re going to find out.”
John McElroy
“Well you know, Syd Mead before he passed away, was asked what he thought about the Cybertruck. He said he found it visually breathtaking. And he said that the form language for pickup trucks has forever changed or words to that effect.”
John Manoogian
“And I think his words will be closer than what we might think.”
You can watch that show on our website, Autoline.tv or you can find it on our YouTube channel.
DAIMLER BOOSTS NUMBER OF JOB CUTS
Daimler is ramping up its cost cutting measures. In November, it said it would cut at least 10,000 jobs by 2022, but now German newspaper Handelsblatt says there will be up to 15,000 job cuts. The previous cuts would clear up $1.5 billion to fund future products and technologies. The new report also says Daimler will reduce investments in loss-making projects that are not part of the core business.
FORD CREATES EMOJI JACKET
Ford came up with a new way for bicyclists to communicate with car drivers. It commissioned a prototype jacket that displays a number of icons, which can tell drivers what their intentions are or how they are feeling. The LED panel displays left and right arrows, a road hazard sign or one of three emojis. The cyclist activates each icon via a wireless remote that straps to the handlebars. We like the idea, but it’s not available to buy yet and we think there would be a lot of sad and angry faces.
NEW CHRYSLER PACIFICA DESIGN FEEDBACK
On Friday, we asked what you all thought of the Chrysler Pacifica’s new styling. Some liked the look. Lambo2015 says, “The Pacifica is far better looking than the goofy looking Odyssey or Sienna.” and Kit Gerhart adds, “I think both the old, and new Pacifica looks pretty good, and except for maybe reliability, it’s the best minivan out there.” But most aren’t too fond of the styling. Max agreed with someone else who said the new front end looks like the old Chrysler 200 and adds “BORING!” BOB DE CARDENAS says, “… we have a 2018 Pacifica hybrid which is what my wife drives… I fell in love with it’s design, especially the grille… but I think the new grille looks terrible on it.” Clayton Root is right in line with Mr. DE CARDENAS. He says,”… Front End is a NO, Rear End is a YES. Now they need to work on the Rear 3/4 view as the ‘C Pillar’ is fugly.” And with the last thought, Roger T. wonders if the new rear lighting design is a sign of things to come. “I wonder if the Pacifica tail lamp is a sign that FCA is trying to blend Chrysler and Dodge, baby step to merge the two.” Now that’s certainly an interesting thought and we’d like to thank everyone for their feedback. There was so much we just couldn’t get to it all.
AUTOMAKERS BEGIN TO RESUME PRODUCTION IN CHINA
The coronavirus outbreak in China forced a number of automakers to suspend operations in the country but some companies are getting back on their feet. Tesla has resumed production at its factory in Shanghai with assistance from government officials. Daimler and Ford are restarting production at certain facilities and Volkswagen is opening a plant it operates with SAIC and its opening most of the factories its operates with FAW. And General Motors will resume production on February 15th. But not all automakers are getting back to normal. Toyota and Honda have extended production shutdowns in China and FCA is experiencing parts shortages at its European factories which is disrupting production.
CHINESE CONSUMERS REJECT 3-CYLINDER ENGINES
Speaking of China, car buyers there sure don’t like 3-cylinder engines. GM introduced 3-bangers in cars it sells under the Chevrolet, Buick and Baojun brands and they proved to be practically sales-proof. Chinese consumers believe they vibrate more and are noisier and are not very interested in them. The head of GM China, Matt Tsien, told analysts that GM’s key new product launches in 2020 will all have 4-cylinder engines, and it’s racing to redesign cars that only offered 3-cylinder engines so that they can accommodate a four.
But that wraps up today’s show, thanks for watching and we’ll see you again tomorrow.
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Comments (82)
February 10th, 2020 at 12:07 pm
Minor correction, TSLA stock, “a high of $887 last week,” on Tuesday it hit $962.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:14 pm
Α. NOBODY, not just Chinese consumers, wants 3 cyl engines. WHat GM and Ford learned in CHina ( the hard way) hopefully they will also apply to the US market.
Chinese consumers are a lot like US consumers, they prefer large, heavier cars and especially SUVs and CUVs.
However, gas is much more expensive there, and EV chargers twice as many as in the US, plus Beijing wants no ICE cars in the big megacities and you pay thru the nose ($15,000 US License fee) if you insist on buying a dirty car. Plug-in hybrids are OK there too.
B. STUPID Emojis. As if it is not bad enough to see them all over the web and email, now we will see giant ones too? Great. The march towards illiteracy will be greatly accelerated.
C. Tesla sales. I would lose very little sleep, and would waste even LESS time worrying about them, in the US or anwhere else. European sales will be HUGE in 2020, as GERMANY becomes a big BEV market, and the Netherlands become as saturated as no 1 Norway.
I was thinking about JAPAN as a prime candidate for Teslas, I wonder if the crooks in government there have barriers to Tesla like our dumb, corrupt and incompetent local politicians who seem to be in the pockets of the dealers in MI and 20 other states. Japan has the $ and the need (traffic jams) for BEVs. Plus they like to conserve their environment much more than most other nations.
ANd the place that most needs BEVs is INDIA, where pollution is REALLY Out of control even in their own capital. COrruption and Incompetence there are legendary, typical of Socialist regimes around the world. BUT they are permanently impoverished, barefoot and pregnant so they cannot afford even the Model 3. Maybe VW-Seat Up! BEV can find a profitable niche there.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:19 pm
Do Chinese buyer not want 3 cylinder engines “just because,” or are there valid reasons? I had a three cylinder car, a 1987 Chevy Sprint, which worked fine for a mini car. It got great gas mileage, for the time, and the engine was not particularly rough or noisy, compared to fours of the time. I’ve driven a recent Mini with the 1.5 turbo three, which also works fine. The one downside of the three in the Mini, compared to the four in the “S,” was that, with the manual transmission, you needed to keep the revs a little higher for it to be smooth under load. The S, of course, is quicker.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:19 pm
I posted this “Mother of all Comparison Tests” on Friday’s comments but apparently nobody saw it. It is as it should be, very detailed, and has all the data. Car and Driver comparison between the Porsche Taycan So-called Turbo S BEV and the Tesla Model S Performance.
The results are amazing. The 8-year old Tesla, far roomier for both passengers AND cargo, and the $85,000 more expensive Porsche. Tesla haters will really hate the results, where David beats Goliath HANDILY.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a30799498/2020-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-vs-2020-tesla-model-s-performance/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR1Pq_4s4SfMy0WgEfm7MQJCZ5xJrnngwK0RJANfg2uMcRxN3f1GYwSKup0
February 10th, 2020 at 12:21 pm
My wife’s Mini has a three cylinder engine (with turbo); it moves the car well and doesn’t lack anything for my driving requirements. It’s not a rocket ship, nor a slouch and though it requires premium fuel, gets 39 mpg mixed driving.
Well, the Cybertruck may get the other auto(truck) makers thinking of some styling changes, they, the others better not bet the farm on it; truck buyers are still the most traditional buyers of any vehicles.
p.s. For F1 fans, and this link is announcing the livery of the M/B 2020 car (not much changed) with inkling that M/B is going to stick around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agFU726VB_Q
February 10th, 2020 at 12:22 pm
CyberTruck? Tesla’s Aztec. Don’t get me started.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:31 pm
6 Agreed
The three cylinder kept the new Encore GS from making the list to replace our Vibe GT. It would be larger than the Vibe with less power. My wife still isn’t in love with her TourX but I would have hated the other options.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:38 pm
7 Yeah, the Aztec was at least a relatively intelligent use of space. A poor styling exercise and typical build it and let the customer be the guinea pig as is often the case with GM.
We’re anxiously awaiting your comment on Geely, Larry.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:41 pm
9
SEAN
Kick this ignorant moron out before I REALLY throw the book at her empty skull.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:43 pm
8 I’ll have to drive one of the new GM threes, to see what it’s like. The BMW Mini triple works fine, but in a somewhat lighter car than the Encore, with about the same power. The GM engines are smaller, so would be more highly tuned to get the same power, which may not be a good thing.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:43 pm
Maybe manufacturers have resumed production in China but the tool shops are still feeling the affect. This corona virus is going to play havoc with Tesla stock as well as many others. It will muddy the waters in the coming months to determine how much sales are dropping due to the affects of the virus or EV sales in general.
One good thing Tesla did, a few weeks ago they shipped their Model Y dies out of China to be completed elsewhere. They spent Millions of dollars to do this but is no doubt a good decision. I know of a die shop there that has over 200 people and today 12 people showed up.
As for cybertruck design. No doubt other manufacturers will be conducting some market research to determine if that’s the future. Is the design attractive cause its just so different? Or because its a Tesla? Or is it going to need some changes to sell to a mass market?
Fords Jacket is a little late. The motorcycle industry already has similar signal devices that can be added to the back of ones helmet. Minus the emojis.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:44 pm
8 sure, the Aztec was such a misunderstood genius design. WHY O WHY is the dog not eating this worthless, stale dogfood? WHY did GM go BANKRUPT? Why did the Bolt failed so miserably? (not to mention that PATHETIC Ford Focus Electric with its 7 mile range?
Stick your heads deeper in the sand. No wonder Tesla stock is worth twice what GM AND FOrd stock is COMBINED. Blame Wall Street now, geniuses, instead of ADMITTING that Tesla has FAR SUPERIOR PRODUCT. It is NOT a fad. It is NOT just ‘cool’ Get these things through your foot-thick skulls, geniuses. STUDY the Car and Driver comparison test, if you can read.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:45 pm
11 Don’t need to. Use your coffeemaker and the effect will be similar.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:46 pm
7 What does she not like about the TourX, except maybe the gas mileage? I haven’t driven one, but like the way it looks.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:46 pm
I have an ecoboost I-3 in my Fiesta, it is an amazing engine. Noisier, more vibration not in the Fiesta! It’s fun to drive too!
February 10th, 2020 at 12:47 pm
14 Have you driven one, or a Mini with the triple? Probably not. As far as coffee makers, mine doesn’t have any rotating parts.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:49 pm
11 Kit- Almost afraid to comment referencing a number, as it looks as though a few more post will and should be deleted since the biggest offender is still here.
Anyway I’m a bit surprised that the Chinese find the 3cyl offensive. As like many 4cyl engines they typically have a balance shaft and can be quite smooth and quiet. I agree with you though that the biggest change is they require higher RPMs to achieve similar power as a larger displacement engine.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:59 pm
17 Also, engines with fewer cylinders, even of the same displacement, need to be spinning faster to smooth out under load. An extreme example is an 1800cc 6 cylinder Honda Gold Wing, which is smooth under mild acceleration at 1000 rpm or so, while similar displacement twins need to be at significantly higher rpm to not feel like they are being “lugged” under load.
None of that applies much with automatic transmissions, which generally won’t let you under-rev the engine.
February 10th, 2020 at 12:59 pm
3 cyl engines can be properly balanced with a little more difficulty than 4 cyl. They are used extensively in outboard motors, motorcycles and other applications and are excellent at saving weight and improving fuel economy. So for small car efficiency, they are an excellent choice.
My feeling is that too many consumers follow the blowhards and know-it-alls on social media and suck up their ignorance as gospel. So if the loudmouth says 3 cyl engines are no good; well it must be true. Shame really, when you know they could be providing superior solutions.
Let ignorance prevail.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:05 pm
I think the Cybertruck will be a success because it’s a Tesla and in spite of its design. Honda did not see any success at all when they rethought the pickup with the Ridgeline.
So I think that companies that follow the Cybertruck design language, if they are not Tesla, are flushing their money.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:06 pm
2
As Japan says they are environmentally friendly, they plan on building 20+ coal firing power plants in the next 5 years. That will spew more CO2 than all the ICE cars sold in the US last year. Those Teslas and other Electrics will have a hard time justifying their existence there.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:09 pm
#1. Bob, you’re right that it hit that price during trading but did not close at that price. We reported the price it closed at.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:10 pm
I like the idea of the Ford jacket. Nice and big graphics. But I would put ‘happy’ and ‘sad’ emoji in the oversharing category. Don’t need to know.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:13 pm
15 She misses the numerous personal storage cubby holes the Vibe had. The TourX doesn’t even have map pockets on the backs of the front seats or cup holders for the back seat. I’m having to add cheap accessories to cover what is missing. I also love the looks.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:13 pm
13 The Aztec was a well designed vehicle from a functional aspect. It failed miserably when it came to body design. Not sure what that has to do with feeding your dog or the Bolt or the Ford Focus electric. But most of your rants don’t make much sense. Especially considering this vehicle hasn’t been made for 15 years. I guess its real stale dog food.
As for why GM went bankrupt, the main reason was they lost money right after the attacks in 2001, they offered 0% financing with rebates to customers. However, as time went on, they could not afford the rebates, but competitors kept upping their specials, so GM had to do the same. GM also began creating an electric car, but scrapped the project. This was a bad idea because this could have made them the leader in the green car movement. General Motors’ financing program also went down, so consumers could not get loans to buy cars. GM also bought 20% of Fiat, but Fiat’s CEO died, causing unintended circumstances, so GM paid $2 billion more to back out of the contract.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:17 pm
24 Joe, Who carries a map?
February 10th, 2020 at 1:21 pm
16 It does not matter if your coffeemaker has or has not rotating parts. My comparison was all about how they sound. Of course, why stop at 3 cylinders? Goto 2 or 1, like these tiny German cars after WW II, the BMW isetta and that Messerschmidt 1+1 that allegedly got 87 MPG at 65 MPH (so the poster said at Stahl’s collection museum). Those “cars” were thinly disguised motorcycles, with tiny 250 cc or smaller motorcycle engines. maybe some were indeed one -cylinder.
But at that time, people in Germany did not even have enough to eat. What is the excuse for bringing these unsafe, awful, tiny engines back in today’s unbelievably good economy?
Re your other “question”, which was probably more of a way to claim, if I had not driven a 3-cylinder, that I am not allowed to have an opinion about them. I am 99% sure I must have driven some over the years, but fortunately I never owned one. Was that god-awful Chevy-Suzuki SPrint that weighed less than a Smart, a 3-cylinder? It could barely move. I drove it in the 80s when I borrowed it once from our secretary for an errand. Was the Daihatsu Cuore 360 cc a 3 or a 2 cyl? I drove that too. Not even a TOY, and of course UNSAFE at any speed.
Here is the important question. How much is your life worth? People who own $1 million homes, or even $0.5 million, owning such unsafe vehicles. How smart is that? If, like me, who made the mistake of owning small and compact 4-cylinder cars for 30 years, they had an ACCIDENT in them, then they would make FAR WISER CHOICES.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:21 pm
24 Thanks for info. I haven’t looked at the interior, so wouldn’t have known those things. I guess it has too much European influence for the US market.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:22 pm
26 Grand kids carry books.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:22 pm
Ford has three cylinder engines that have cylinder deactivation down to only two cylinders under light loads. When is this Obama Era fuel economy nonsense going to end. How about in the junkyards of America this decade!
February 10th, 2020 at 1:27 pm
Tesla actually hit an intraday high of $968.99 on February the 4th. At that price it was quickly catching-up to Toyota which is truly incredible. Bitcoin fans were experiencing a phenomena called déjà-vu.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:33 pm
I recall the Ford 1.0L Ecoboost was awarded a best engine award several years in row. Its US sales were initially limited by lack of availability of an automatic transmission.
I hope people who criticize things have a basis of fact or humbly acknowledge they are providing an opinion.
The 2017 Focus electric had an MPGe rating of 118 city and 96 highway. It’s Range is EPA-certified at 115 miles. The earlier version had a range of 76 miles (although one website claims 105 miles). I have a good friend that has a Focus electric… had the 1st gen, too…. and loves it.
As for the cybertruck, I’m very curious about outward visibility given the high/angled quarter panels and its embarrassing fender bender when parking in LA after its reveal. I’m also curious about its garageability as the roof peak seems very high.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:37 pm
27 There is a widely held belief among some European car companies that 500 cc is about the right size for a cylinder, so they make 2.0 liter fours, 1.5 liter triples, 3 liter sixes, and 4 liter V8s. A 1.0 liter twin would be a good choice for a very small car. A 90 degree V twin, as in a Suzuki V-Strom bike is pretty smooth, even hard mounted in a bike, and rubber mounted in a tiny car, would be smoother yet.
And, yes, you have way too many opinions about topics of which you are clueless. Yes, the Sprint/Metro/Swift was a triple, of 1.0 liter displacement. A Geo Metro with the triple and manual transmission did 0-60 in a perfectly adequate 13.8 seconds, about the same as the diesel Jetta I had, and significantly quicker than the VW Beetle I drove all over Europe.
As far as safety, if I was paranoid about it, I wouldn’t ride motorcycles. That said, I don’t make motorcycling, or driving more dangerous than it needs to be, given my vehicle choices. I always wear a helmet when I ride, and always use seat belts when I drive.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:40 pm
25 The Aztec was a ludicrous and indeed DISHONEST design, whose aim was to take a MINIVAN, which was unpopular with soccer moms, and pretend it is something else. The problem was that this something else ended up being an EDSEL-UGLY Frankenstein. And this is not really debatable. CArs are made to be sold, and if they can’t sell, they are FAILURES. And Aztec’s problem was not that it was too expensive, the opposite, it was bargain-basement priced and STILL the dogs would not eat the dogfood! Bad Dogs! Then you wonder why GM went Bankrupt, and place the blame on everything else except GM ITSELF. RIght.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:44 pm
4 I read the test, and the Tesla “won,” mainly because it it a lot cheaper, and has a roomier back seat and cargo hold(s). Interestingly, they didn’t find nearly as much range difference between the S and the Taycan as the EPA numbers would indicate.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:49 pm
Here’s a great review of a Chevy Bolt ownership experience.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/08/the-2020-chevy-bolt-gm-changes-the-game-again/
February 10th, 2020 at 1:57 pm
35 Great to hear that you read it. You are minimizing Porsche’s rout. Its new Taycan socalled Turbo S was $85,000 more expensive (both prices as tested) and the diff in performance over the 8 year old Model S design were MINISCULE. The space inside was far inferior to Tesla’s, as I suspected, the cargo room was half that of Tesla’s. The Porsche handling was better, the way Porsches and BMWs are better than Lexuses.
C&D tests are NOT reflecting of most people’s use of the cars (commuting, long trips). The difference between th3e ‘official’ EPA range and the C&D observed range was huge, 326 vs 192 miles, and… C&D claimed they were almost identical. CD took them at 75 MPH on a 100 mile track, which sounds like a trip on an empty highway. I would wait to see the Consumer Reports actual ranges to break the ‘tie’.
Given Porsche is a legendary carmaker, this victory( by a wide margin) is yet another huge success for Tesla.
If I had a $85,000 margin over my rival, I would make sure I would be tops in Every One of the 25 or so categories that C&D uses to rank them. Instead, I saw as many, or even more, Tesla no 1s than Porsche ones in that comparison.
February 10th, 2020 at 2:06 pm
37 In case anybody misunderstood the above, the Model S should have pretty good handling, its center of gravity (I read in another car mag) at 18″ was shorter only than the Corvette’s (17.5″) at the time the Model S appeared in 2012-13. SHould have far better handling than most street-legal ICE cars, with the heavy batteries (500+ Lbs) on the floor of the cabin in a 3″ high aluminum box.
February 10th, 2020 at 2:10 pm
37 The Porsche’s handling was better, and the car could do more than one acceleration run without slowing down substantially. The 0-60 time of the Tesla doubled after 6 runs, while the Porsche stayed about the same. Of course, that doesn’t matter, as it doesn’t matter that a car will do even one sub-3 second 0-60 run.
Yeah, the Porsche is way overpriced, as are most Porsches.
February 10th, 2020 at 2:11 pm
36 I took a look. Seriously, a ‘great review”? I wonder if GM paid him to write it (if it did not, he is not very smart). He brags about how cheap the Bolt is, when, after years of terrible sales and GM losing $9,000 per unit and ‘selling’ half of all Bolts to CRUISE, not to retail buyers, they dropped the price to $26,000, now losing $20,000 a unit. Way to go (bankrupt again), GM! (Oh and in case you ask again, these are NOT numbers I made up! Google them)
I am curious what Bob Wilson’s take on this drivel will be…. lol
February 10th, 2020 at 2:22 pm
Thanks John. I tend to follow TSLA a little closer. I set a price limit on my TSLA sales so the trades happen in the middle of the day. FYI, I let some TSLA go a couple of weeks ago and paid-off my Model 3. This killed the remaining interest and converted my insurance to just liability, both secure cost avoidance.
February 10th, 2020 at 2:27 pm
3 To respond to your Q, I think the Chinese are sick and tired of “crappy cars”, to quote Mary Barra. The place I worked there in Nov, at the SE corner of the Shanghai region, is not particularly wealthy, wages for profs there must be much lower than wages for even K-12 teachers in the US, yet everybody seemed to drive substantial vehicles, many times European and US luxury models, or their Chinese clones. I am sure they spend a far bigger % of their pay on the car than in the US.
In my 1st visit to China in 2006, cars were mostly ‘crappy’, old VW Passats (Santana) taxis that were far smaller, narrower, and uglier than the 2006 US Passats, buses whose seats were useless but for dwarfs and amputees, I had to sit in the last row, the only one my legs could fit, small death-trap Mitsu Minibuses, really tinny, etc. from 2006 to 2019, all these disappeared. Maybe they were recycled, maybe they went to the poorer provinces inland.
A significant part of this is “pride of ownership” as well as the actual superiority of the bigger vehicle over the crappy ones. And the same was observed in India, where the Tata Nano, which I used to be a fan as a far safer alternative for families than those scooters with 5 passengers, failed, not just because it was shabbily made, but because Indians did not like to be thought of as cheapskates who bought this bargain entry-level sedan or whatever it was.
February 10th, 2020 at 2:27 pm
40 Yes, there is on-line speculation that GM lost $9000 on every Bolt sold at ~$37K, but there is on-line speculation disputing it. Neither of us know for sure, but with the relative bargain price they are said to be getting battery cells for, the ~$46K manufacturing cost doesn’t make sense.
Yeah, I agree that the review seemed a little biased, as are all of your opinions on this forum.
February 10th, 2020 at 2:32 pm
Posted this on last weeks link this morning, but for those that don’t go back days later. Its a pretty good explanation on why ICE development cannot stop and why car makers are not pushing the EVs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hatav_Rdnno
His calculations are not precise but close enough.
February 10th, 2020 at 2:33 pm
I hope I’m wrong, but I suspect COnsumer Reports will not bother to test the Taycan “turbo” or not, because of 1. its lofty price, 2. CR taking priode that they never accept cars from their makers for free but they always go buy them from the store or the dealer as do regular consumers, and 3. they will estimate very few people will actually buy the $205,000 Taycan, so they will not bother, and the discrepancy between the EPA and CD ranges of the Taycan vs the Model S will remain unexplained.
February 10th, 2020 at 2:34 pm
I’m glad to see the “new” DOJ ending their automaker probe. It made no sense to begin with. US automakers need to be on the cutting edge of technology in order to remain globally competitive.
February 10th, 2020 at 2:35 pm
Another point, the C&D Review said that, amazingly, Model 3 buyers still have “free Access” to the extensive Tesla Supercharging network. Does this mean free juice for life, or that there is some kind of fee you need to pay to use them, when you have a Model 3, for example, and then both S and 3 have to pay for the electricity? Maybe Bob Wilson knows.
February 10th, 2020 at 2:42 pm
that ford cycling jacket i find a bit silly as a cyclist.there is currently available a helmet with a red led strip across the top of the back plus built in turn signals that operate from the handle bar. that to me makes much more sense.
February 10th, 2020 at 2:46 pm
43 Lots of that speculation comes from the enormous development costs of EVs. If you want to try and recover those costs in a single low volume vehicle I’m sure it looks like a loss.
If battery development/EVs is the future and that technology will be used across the board at GM then those expenses are cost of doing business and keeping up with technology. Not really the development costs of a single vehicle.
February 10th, 2020 at 3:00 pm
45 If CR tests a Taycan, it will probably be the base car, when it arrives, but they may not test it at all. They haven’t tested a Panamera, at least the current generation. They’ve test a 911 Carrera S, a base Boxster, and both Porsche SUVs.
February 10th, 2020 at 3:07 pm
47 It’s Model S Performance buyers who have free access to the charger network. From the article:
“Meanwhile, the price of the top-performing variant started at $105,400, rose to as high as $136,200, and is now back down to $101,190, which once again includes free use of Tesla’s expansive Supercharger network.”
February 10th, 2020 at 3:27 pm
51 so the juice is still 100% free for S performance owners?
50 The Base Taycan is still $150k base price, and as tested probably closer to $165k. I’ll be surprised if CR buys one.
February 10th, 2020 at 4:15 pm
52 There is, or will be a “base” Taycan 4S, for $105,150.
https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/taycan
If CR buys a Taycan, I suspect it will be the 4S. They sometimes rent cars, and do a general overview, but without the instrumented tests. They did that for a Porsche Cayman S and, I think, a Jaguar F-type.
February 10th, 2020 at 4:48 pm
The main reason GM and Chrysler went bankrupt (and Ford almost did), was because of an incredibly one-sided UAW labor contract and a total unwillingness over many years of the union to revise several key elements of their contract that really screwed the automakers. Uncompetitively high wages and benefits and the Jobs Bank that forced the automakers to pay UAW workers 95% of their pay when they were not working, were key to the demise of the financial health of the Big 3.
I’m not saying that GM, Ford and Chrysler management did not make some poor decisions, but gaffes like the Pontiac Aztek can be absorbed. Don’t forget that they sold five other vehicles on that same platform, which were fairly successful.
And now, with more sensible contracts in place, the domestic automakers are making big profits. Except for Tesla. One day they will have to figure out how to do that.
February 10th, 2020 at 5:07 pm
The Aztec sold 27K for three years, but the related, but better looking Rendezvous sold more than 60K for four years.
February 10th, 2020 at 6:02 pm
The Tesla Cybertruck looks like a POS. Looks like it was built in some guy barn. Reminds of the TV series Top Gear, back when Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May attempted to bodge together their own electric vehicles which ended up showcasing just embarrassing vehicle they ran through some challenges.
February 10th, 2020 at 6:08 pm
Elon beat up on the shorters. WSJ reported today that investors who shorted Tesla lost $8.4 billion when they had to sell out. On the other hand, we were in Norway in late 2018, and the country seemed to be swimming in Teslas. So they might still be a big market for Tesla, or maybe they are saturated by now.
February 10th, 2020 at 6:29 pm
Is this the inspiration for the styling of the Cybertruck?
https://www.hotcars.com/ranking-the-20-worst-electric-cars-ever-made/2/
February 10th, 2020 at 9:02 pm
58 The link didn’t work as intended. See #17 (and #19).
February 11th, 2020 at 5:26 am
New from TFL truck; another electric pickup, this one something that can be ‘looked’ at, the Nikola Badger. Seems way more mainstream (but still cutting edge for an electric full sized truck). Link, if interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC5ZwPm8TkA
February 11th, 2020 at 7:41 am
60 They sure want those wheel wells to look big. Will there be a market for even one of these things, much less the half dozen we are hearing about? They will be very expensive, if they have enough battery for decent range, and will have little range if actually hauling or towing anything. We shall see.
February 11th, 2020 at 8:04 am
Dec is usually a very good month for Euro Luxury makers. In Dec 2019, Porsche sales were as follows: (Dec 2018 in parentheses)
ALL 911 models: 663 (789)
ALL 718: 191 (237)
ALL Taycan: 130 (0)
All Panamera: 592 (332)
All Cayenne: 1,482 (1,383)
All Macan: 1,675 (1,345)
Total Dec 19 (18): 4,733 (4,086)
About 2/3rds of all sales are the two SUVs.
What would be the monthly steady-state Taycan (all models together) sales, after the initial peak and after they reach steady state?
a. 100
b. 200
c. 300
d. 400
e. 500
Anybody seriously thinks they will sell more than 500, esp when the early reservations are filled?
February 11th, 2020 at 8:14 am
62 I don’t think they are selling the “cheap” $105K Taycans yet. They should help keep sales going after the early $200K+ ones are delivered. Taycan may take sales from Panamera, more than from Model S, though.
February 11th, 2020 at 8:20 am
63 so how do you vote, abcde?
Taycans are performance cars with less room than the Panamera, maybe some of the 911 buyers will also shift.
February 11th, 2020 at 8:22 am
62 Wow The Aztec sold at least 750 a month for 3 years and only two of the Porsche models exceeded that.
Didn’t someone say:” CArs are made to be sold, and if they can’t sell, they are FAILURES.” I guess, according to that failed logic the 911 is a failure.
February 11th, 2020 at 8:38 am
65 Are you kidding us? Yeah, compare $10k APPLES and $200k WATERMELONS, genius.
Go out and play.
February 11th, 2020 at 9:54 am
66 Oh back peddling again. Boy you hate to be schooled especially when its by your own ridiculous posts. What I wont do is respond with your typical demeaning arrogant responses like go play. It just shows your immaturity and that when you have no real good response you resort to name calling like a small child. Its okay it doesn’t bother me I just consider the source and laugh it off.
February 11th, 2020 at 10:02 am
66 If you haven’t realized it yet most people that post here regularly consider you a joke. If you were as intelligent and as well educated as you boast, it just seems you would have better manners and social skills. Your responses in caps and the name calling lead people to believe your actually some teen in his parents basement. A internet troll. If you could just step back for a second and realize that opinions are much like A-holes and everyone has one. So its nothing special. A little consideration goes a long way.
February 11th, 2020 at 10:07 am
“Jeep dealers are now discounting Gladiator models by as much as $9,000″
After the loser Bolt, now the other poor seller, the “all hat and no cattle” Gladiator, who failed even as Jeep was breaking records every month for several years.
Buyers are dumb, but even stupidity has its limits. They refused to pay $60k for this worthless POS just as Bolt Buyers refused to pay close to $40k for a fat, ugly subcompact when they can get a Honda Fit for $20k or less.
February 11th, 2020 at 10:08 am
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/02/big-discounts-could-mean-big-trouble-for-midsize-jeep-gladiator/
Here is the whole sordid story in case you care.
February 11th, 2020 at 10:30 am
Lambo2015, I completely agree with your sentiments. I think most people posting here can respectfully disagree with others, I don’t understand why Larry cannot.
February 11th, 2020 at 10:43 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_o_ZQ2LQ3w
Informative video about the various generations of the Tesla 7,000+ supercharger network and its much smaller rival, “Electrify America”
February 11th, 2020 at 10:48 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGH85aWqnfE
The case for yet another gigafactory, in Texas.
February 11th, 2020 at 10:57 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW6oU6dfDK0
And a fact-based investigation of Tesla’s claim that the Model Y will outsell all other Tesla models combined.
February 11th, 2020 at 10:59 am
FCA inflated the price of the Gladiator at launch because like anything else market demand drives price and there were plenty of people willing to pay 60K for one. Now that those that were clamoring to get one have. The price will have to be adjusted to a competitive level. I doubt it ever will get down to the same price as a Ranger or Colorado as Wranglers in general have great resale and for that reason pull a premium price beyond reason.
Anyone at FCA who didn’t think the Gladiator would steal some sales from the Wrangler is an idiot. Which is why I knew their projected volume of 111k a year was a joke. That truck will most likely settle in around 80K this year and drop to 40K in following years. Then Jeep will drop it due to poor sales. Is it a POS? No its just priced too high for what it is. Had Jeep had a target price inline with Ranger and Colorado it would probably be and remain very competitive. But the price will end up killing it in the end. JMO!
February 11th, 2020 at 11:15 am
I am now watching Jay Leno’s test of a Taycan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgWXNL7wAPE
February 11th, 2020 at 11:38 am
75 Also, they can make less expensive versions, like selling it with RWD, like Colorado, Taco, and Ranger. At some point, they might want to make a 2 door version, on the 4 door Wranger wheelbase. That would cost some money to tool, but it might make sense, especially when, and if there is a next generation.
They could always just lower the price, but that would seriously PO the buyers who paid the inflated prices to be the first kid on the block to have a Gladiator.
February 11th, 2020 at 11:48 am
3 cylinders – While I have never had a 3 cylinder vehicle (I’d rather have a V-8), both of our daughters have recent Ford Escapes with the 1.5L Turbo 3 cylinder, & I find them acceptable when driving them. Also had a few Italian sport bikes with V-twins and enjoyed them immensely (really don’t want a V-2 in a 4 wheeled vehicle).
February 11th, 2020 at 11:48 am
74 If it’s not too much more expensive than a Model 3, I’d expect it to sell very well. It’s, basically a Model 3 with hatchback utility, and not enough lift to hurt much.
February 11th, 2020 at 11:55 am
Musk said it will be 10% more expensive than a similarly equipped 3, justifying it by saying that it is also “10% bigger” (mostly taller).
It is a very high bar, as it will have to sell over 400,000 units in 2021. the video analyzed the competition, the very successful “big 3″ Rav4, CR-V and Rogue, and many significant other competitors from Subaru, VW and the domestics. The “big 3″ above sell a million copies a year.
February 11th, 2020 at 11:58 am
80 was re 79. The 400,000 don’t have to be all US sales, though, and in that sense I think they can make it, because of the huge demand from China and later from Europe.
I am still curious about Japan and India, and what is stopping Tesla from having major league sales there too.
February 11th, 2020 at 1:27 pm
#68 +1