AD #2846 – 23 States Sue for Fuel Rollback; Automakers Fail Trying to Become #1; Lamborghini Sian Lego Car

May 28th, 2020 at 11:58am

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Listen to “AD #2846 – 23 States Sue for Fuel Rollback; Automakers Fail Trying to Become Number 1; Lamborghini Sian Lego Car” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 10:08

0:07 23 States Sue Trump Admin. for Fuel Economy Rollback
0:58 Ford & GM Using Fast-Payment Programs for Suppliers
1:29 How the RNM Alliance Will Divide Duties
2:24 Automakers Fail Trying to Become #1
4:13 GM’s Plan for White-Collar Workers Returning
4:59 UAW Execs. Sued for Sexual Harassment
5:32 Ford Update Allows for Virus-Killing Heat
6:29 Lamborghini Sian Turned Into Lego Technic Kit
7:23 Learning to Fix the Mach-E with VR
8:38 Sony to Feature Hyundai’s in Upcoming Movies
9:00 Virtual 24 Hours of Le Mans Race

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44 Comments to “AD #2846 – 23 States Sue for Fuel Rollback; Automakers Fail Trying to Become #1; Lamborghini Sian Lego Car”

  1. Barry T Says:

    I appreciate the innovation of Ford, automating a process for killing viruses (and I guess murder hornets) with some HEAT. That feature would be lightly used in Arizona this summer…

  2. Albemarle Says:

    The Ford heat solution sounds wonderful. I would be able to pre-heat the car in the winter and all the snow on it and even around it would be melted. From the melted plastic thermometer I think I would not want to keep anything in the car.

  3. ChuckGrenci Says:

    So what is Autoline’s take on Trump’s reduction of economy standards. They aren’t removed from what I can tell, just delayed. I do remember that Autoline suggested that some standards be delayed for one auto-cycle but I also get the ‘vibe’ that Autoline doesn’t particularly care for Trump (as President). I don’t intend to provoke a political discussion but wouldn’t mind your take on the States suing and the program (as a whole).

  4. bradley cross Says:

    There is a Chinese car company that has the virus killing max heat feature via their app. I recall Bjorn tested it on an EV recently.

    And yes Carlos rescued Nissan and then destroyed it just for his ego. And it takes years to get a good reputation back if at all. Likely too late for Nissan now.

    I hope the emission lawsuit folks can speak to the extra costs of cars. I think as long as we are slowly increasing the requirements across this large country its a good start. Should do the same with the gas tax. Up 2 cents every year.

  5. Lambo2015 Says:

    I believe the states are really reaching to be suing over something that is not for them to decide. They certainly have the power to increase registration fees based on fuel economy or tax gasoline higher to try and curb consumption but national fuel economy requirements is an over-reach. But in todays society if you don’t agree you complain and sue until you get your way.

    I think pursuing the #1 spot as an automaker from a volume level is an utter waste and being the #1 in quality or profitability should be a more admirable endeavor.

    I wonder if you buy a Mach-E if you can get access to the VR service?

  6. Lambo2015 Says:

    Didn’t the CDC or WHO just announce that CV doesn’t really survive on surfaces very well and it would be unlikely to contract it that way? So the Ford heat feature could just be a new way to torture a back seat passenger.

    Next move; make the interior waterproof and have a sprinkler system that sprays everything down with a mixture of water and bleach.

  7. Kit Gerhart Says:

    6. The virus can survive up to 5 days on some surfaces, depending on temperature.

    That said, I suspect the Ford superheater is mainly a publicity thing, and is something they can do very cheaply.

  8. ArtG Says:

    #1. LOL. Thanks for the chuckle. My son lives in AZ. He sends me screenshots of the temps in the summer.

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    1,8. It some parts of Arizona, and in Las Vegas, a car can get to 133 F with the windows down at times.

  10. John McElroy Says:

    #3. Chuck, I’ll give you my personal opinion. I think the Trump Administration is correct to keep the mpg improvement rate at the same 1.5%/year track that it was on over the last decade. The 5% improvement rate the Obama Admin set was unrealistic, though you have to remember that was set around 2011 when everyone was sure we were running out of oil. At first the Trump Admin was going to freeze the standards, but then agreed to continue the 1.5% improvement rate. Where I don’t agree with the Trump Administration is where it’s trying to gut the mandate for EVs.

  11. cwolf Says:

    I understand what the RNM Alliance is trying to achieve, but leaves me wondering if the move isn’t also open to price fixing and/or monopolizing certain areas.

  12. ChuckGrenci Says:

    10, John, points taken and agree.

  13. Wim van Acker Says:

    @3,4, 10, 12: there is an additional effect to slowing down fuel efficiency standards. It will allow FCA, Ford and GM to maintain two different product line ups, one for the U.S. and Canada, and one for the rest of the world, for a longer time. While I personally appreciate many of the U.S. products (I am working on buying a Jeep Wrangler right now, as an example), it is a competitive disadvantage for FCA/Ford/GM in the long run: they are second tier players in overall volume behind VW and Toyota to begin with and then have roughly half of that volume for each regional product line up. That hampers profitability per unit over time. Example: when GM CEO Wagoner was touting time and time again “GM is the world’s biggest automaker” during public appearances in 2007/8, GM had actually the economies of scale of players like Renault and Fiat at that time.

  14. Kit Gerhart Says:

    All of the recent data is that Nissan is doing poorly, but on my recent trip from Florida to Indiana, it seemed that about every other car on the interstate was a Nissan. Maybe it’s because a few hundred miles of the trip was in Tennessee, where Nissan has most of their US manufacturing.

    As far as RNM, in ways, it makes sense, in that the three companies are strongest in different geographic areas, and in different market segments. It makes less sense, though, in that none of the three is particularly strong anywhere. Maybe Mitsubishi will bail them all out, with their deep pockets from ship building, aerospace, etc. I think Mitsu Heavy Industries is only a partial owner of Mitsu Motors, though.

  15. Lambo2015 Says:

    7 Kit you might want to read the latest info from the WHO (May 20th).

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    15. I don’t trust the CDC too much, when it is run by an administration whose leader recommends drinking bleach, etc. Also, I certainly take most of what’s in the Murdoch/Fox New York Post with a grain of salt. I agree with what they say, though, with “This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about this” referring to contact with surfaces.”

    This is a little of what the WHO says about it, which mostly agrees:

    “Although fomites and
    contaminated surfaces have yet to be conclusively linked to transmission of SARS-CoV-2, demonstration
    of surface contamination in healthcare settings3 and experiences with surface contamination linked to
    subsequent infection transmission in other coronaviruses, have informed the development of cleaning
    and disinfection recommendations to mitigate the potential of fomite transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in
    3 healthcare and 4 non-healthcare settings.”

    They then go over the usual methods of cleaning surfaces with alcohol and chorine.

  17. XA351GT Says:

    So what is stopping manufacturers from still hitting those original goals for mileage ? Is it maybe these States want these all but unobtainable numbers so they can fine manufacturers for not making the numbers? How many can make the fleet numbers now ? Also how is it calculated? One of each model made by a manufacturer or do they take in consideration that some higher mileage models will sell in lower volume numbers than say trucks that won’t get ,but maybe 1/2 of that 40 MPG number. Also do they take the best performing model and use it’s numbers or do they take all the different versions of a model and average it? There are so many factors that can change those numbers drastically. Also who does the test of the vehicle mileage numbers? We know manufacturer numbers vary wildly .

  18. XA351GT Says:

    16 Really?? Drink Bleach? I’m pretty damn sure that was never said. Bleach , Lysol none of the BS mentioned was ever said. Grossly misquoted to fit a agenda. Like him , don’t like him that’s fine , but enough with the outright lies and misinformation.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    17. I’m pretty sure the numbers for a manufacturer are based on the number of each vehicle sold. If that is the case, the manufactures can improve their numbers by raising the price of the gas hogs, and lowering the price of their more efficient vehicles. With the trucks, they could improve their numbers by lowering the surcharge for the diesels.

    Probably everyone here knows, but the numbers used for calculating CAFE are much higher than the window sticker numbers. The window sticker numbers are adjusted downward from actual test results, to be closer to what people actually get in real world driving.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    18. Yeah, an exaggeration, but not much. You could tell what Dr. Birx was thinking by her expression when that speech was going on. Sorry about that.

    Here’s the BBC’s take of the whole thing.

    Anyway, sorry about my post that was offensive to some.

  21. Wim van Acker Says:

    @18: see for yourself:

    Facts are great.

  22. Brett Cammack Says:

    I am confused. Does your report mean that Mitsubishi is going to leave the North American market?


    17) There is absolutely nothing stopping any manufacturer from raising the MPG all on their own.

  24. Dave Says:

    Of coursed running an ozone generator in the car will disinfect in about 5 minutes and leave it smelling nice too.

  25. Bishop Says:

    @18 “. . .outright lies and misinformation”?

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22. The linked article would indicate that future Nissan and Mitsu CUVs might be more alike, but there was no mention of leaving the North American market, though that certainly could happen. They specifically mention that Renault and Nissan would share a platform for B segment in Latin America. From the article:

    “In Latin America, the B-product platforms will be rationalized, evolving from four variants to only one for both Renault and Nissan products. This platform will be produced in two plants each producing for both Renault and Nissan.”

    That sounds like some Nissan and Renault products sold the the south might be mostly “badge engineered” near-clones.

    I’d think that would happen with the CUVs in North America too, between Nissan and Mitsubishi.

  27. Kerri Says:

    Fuel economy standards are already too severe and should be rolled back. Not everyone wants to be forced into buying a vehicle the size of a ‘Smart Car’.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Fuel economy standards are too lax, or more importantly, fuel taxes are way too low. That’s why we have this ridiculous vehicle mix with all of these huge trucks and SUVs few people need, and why we have the deteriorating infrastructure, with no money to fix it.

  29. XA351GT Says:

    @21 Nice try . He never said Bleach or Lysol which every MSM was trying to push. What he said was disinfectant. Which in a video I watched of a healthcare worker who specializes in lung cases said. that certain drugs they use to treat with are for lack of a better word is called a disinfectant. Now whether that is what he was referring to I can’t tell you. But he admits he is no medical expert and for him to come out with that , he heard it from someone in the medical fields. Maybe he used the simplist term he could think of to describe it . He also posed it in the form of question to his medical experts on the stage . Seeming to me to try and find out if that is a valid solution. Much like the idiot that took fish tank cleaner and then tried to say He said to them to take it and then later found to have been a probable murder plot it wound up being debunked.

  30. ChuckGrenci Says:

    29, XA, I was going to respond similarly to what you said but decided to just let it go; thumbs up for all you said (and you did it better than I could have). When there is zero tolerance (on both sides of an argument) these are some of the things that are said; so much ‘grey’ in this world and the pundits only see black and white.

  31. Lambo2015 Says:

    16 The link I included was from the WHO and not CDC but I see you used it as a great oportunity to pile on with the typical Trump bashing. Which has nothing to do with whether or not the virus can be transmitted on surfaces.
    29 Two thums up!

  32. Lambo2015 Says:

    28 Where is your supporting data that fuel economy standards are too lax or is that just your opinion? You continully state that these trucks and SUVs are not needed but with current seatbelt laws what choices are available for a family of 5 or 6? If you own a boat, camper, snowmobiles, side by side or tow anything over 5000lbs what are you do? Yes I know you see many people everyday driving trucks alone with the bed empty. I’m one of them. I like many people cannot justify buying some hybrid or EV at 30k+ just for work, and then also buy a 40K truck to tow the things I need. So yep I end up driving my truck (that does everything I need) on many days that I dont need the bed or the space. My main reason for owning the truck is towing and so yep a look into the bed without a liner looks prestine. Doesnt look as though Ive ever used it even though I have.

    Its actually the very same delima that people buying and RV sruggle with. Buy a motorhome that will likely only get a few thousand miles a year on it or buy a trailer but then you need a truck to tow it with and will need to drive it everyday. The tree huggers answer is just tent it, and buy a Prius. Sounds cool until your 50 sleeping on the ground and trying to take 4 kids or grandkids along. Its just not as simple to say trucks and SUVs are not needed.

  33. Kit Gerhart Says:

    31. WTF, exactly, are you talking about. The headline from your link is:

    “CDC now says coronavirus ‘does not spread easily’ on surfaces”

    There is a picture of the CDC building in the article. Take a look at your own link. The article mentions mainly the CDC.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    32. It could be called my “opinion,” but having been other places around the world, it’s clear that people many places do fine without using 5500 pound trucks to take one person to work.

    It sounds like you are one of the small percentage of people who tow something big enough to need a larger vehicle. Most people driving big pickups, Tahoes, etc., are not.

    Regarding motor homes, renting them might be a good market for the Hertzes of America, renting them to people to use a week or two a year. Some motor homes are used a signifiant amount, but many are rarely used, as you say.

  35. Larry D. Says:

    FYI John, I never, ever considered the UAW an “honest and clean” union, and the recent financial scandals of its so-called corrupt leadership, for those who ARE paying attention, should not have anybody surprised that these clowns (and possibly several of their rank and file) had sexual harassment scandals as well. And those that come out are the TIP of the iceberg.

  36. Larry D. Says:

    34 The problem is that most people do not want to own 10 different vehicles, each one of them being the optimal one for each of their ten activities, one of which may be commuting, another suburban driving kids to lessons, a third Vacationing and towing your boat, a fourth etc. ESPECIALLY for small, up to single person families, in which case it would be ridiculous and utterly unaffordable to most people.

  37. cwolf Says:

    Has anyone looked at what it cost to rent a motor home lately? It costs more than an arm and a leg. The kicker is most charge another $200 for cleaning once returned.
    I would consider good old fashion tent camping as a better alternative.

  38. Larry D. Says:

    37 makes perfect sense, and it should be so. Good old supply and demand under the new reality, where very few will still vacation on planes and cruiseships and trains.

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    37. Yeah, it is expensive to rent a motor home, but it is expensive to have a $100K+ machine sitting for 50 weeks a year, to use two weeks a year. I know retirees who have motor homes, and travel around several months a year, spending most of the time stopped rather than driving, but still, for these people, owning the machine makes complete sense. I’ve know others who have one that mostly sits at home, use once or twice a year for a vacation. They would be rental prospects.

    Regarding towing, does anyone have a good explanation for why, say, Larry’s E-Class is rated to tow 1650 pounds without trailer brakes, and ~4000 pounds with brakes in Europe, but zero pounds in the USA?

  40. cwolf Says:

    The UAW has had its share of scandals, but the automotive industry also has had more than its share. I also think sexual harassment has gained the spotlight only because of the women’s movement to have the same respect, fairness and equality men have had for centuries. They are deserving, yet finding equilibrium between being treated equally, yet still realizing it is natural for men and women to show attraction.
    Where is that fine line?

  41. Kit Gerhart Says:

    40. The UAW scandals I knew of years ago were local, with the committeemen being known to be clocked in, while “working” at the neighborhood bar, and similar cases of “padding the clock.”

  42. Lambo2015 Says:

    33 My apologies Kit I had read multiple articles and thought the one I posted was from the WHO. They keep changing recommendations for protection and its just ridiculous that 3 months into this, they still provide vague and conflicting information.

  43. Fensterlips Says:

    I don’t understand the lawsuit myself. We are missing data. If the manufacturers want to get to 45 mpg as quick as possible, do it. If states feel compelled they can do this too. Look at the California clean air standards. For better or worse that was the drummer they marched to. A lawsuit isn’t necessary unless you’re trying force costs and penalties. Kit – I lost a lot of respect for your comments that I have followed and appreciated for years with your bleach comment. You’re free to totally dislike our current president. These feelings, left and right, have gone back and forth over the last couple decades. My complaint is that you accepted what the media was feeding without analysis because it fit a narrative you liked. There’s too much, way too much of this these days. I saw you as a voice of reason.

  44. Kit Gerhart Says:

    43 Sorry how you feel about my comments, but it’s not just the “media” that is “feeding” what I say. It’s physicians, scientists, and scholars of government and history all over the world. I need to try to refrain for non-automotive discussion here, though.