AD #2897 – Is the Polestar 2 A Tesla Killer?; UK Denies Bailout for JLR; Judge Throws Out GM Racketeering Case

August 17th, 2020 at 12:00pm

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Listen to “AD #2897 – Is the Polestar 2 A Tesla Killer?; UK Denies Bailout for JLR; Judge Throws Out GM Racketeering Case” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 11:07

0:07 Judge Throws Out GM Racketeering Case
0:48 UK Government Denies Bailout for Jaguar Land Rover
1:37 CATL Developing Batteries w/o Nickel & Cobalt
3:04 Rolls-Royce Develops New Suspension System for The Ghost
4:09 Super Cruise Subscription Fee Revealed
5:52 Michigan Creates Autonomous Vehicle Corridor
6:43 Viewer Barn Find
7:41 Is the Polestar 2 A Tesla Killer?

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48 Comments to “AD #2897 – Is the Polestar 2 A Tesla Killer?; UK Denies Bailout for JLR; Judge Throws Out GM Racketeering Case”

  1. Rey Says:

    Jaguar LRR is done like diner, they will eventually be sold off to the Chinese, who have deep pockets , You heard it here first!
    Anybody see TSLA stock price lately? Yeah, almost

  2. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Those trucks look like they have been abandoned for decades, but the tires are not flat. Does someone pump them up every couple years.?

  3. Bob Wilson Says:

    To replace my Std Rng Plus Model 3 would cost $38k. So how much is that Polestar 2? Then it has to use Electrify America and EVgo away from home

  4. Kit Gerhart Says:

    1. Tata is a huge conglomerate which, presumably, has deep pockets, but there may be a limit to how much they want to spend on JLR.

  5. Kit Gerhart Says:

    3. Also, it sounds like it isn’t any batter, if as good as a model 3, except for having more user friendly controls. Being boomy and having gear whine doesn’t sound very good. I’m not too crazy about the gear whine my van has at 55 mph, even though it is 31 years old.

  6. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Is the Polestar a Tesla killer, well as Sean said, “no”, however it sure is a lot nicer to look at (inside and out); at least to me.

    How long will it be before instead of saying C.A.T.L., we/all just say ‘cattle’.

  7. Lambo2015 Says:

    GM’s Super Cruise subscription. Well, that alone would make me look at other brands that offered autonomous features for free.
    Have the automakers not figured out that people do not want to add another fee to their car payment. The smart phone has already killed many of their previous attempts. Navigation which worked great for a couple years and then would require an update for a few hundred bucks. Now people just use their phone and it makes navigation on the vehicle basically worthless. Same for On-star and to some extent satellite radio. People can call for help or stream music to their car from their phone and not have multiple subscriptions for each vehicle.

    Certainly autonomy isn’t something you can get from your phone but I think the previous examples prove most customers are not going to be thrilled about paying a monthly fee to use a feature their car has.

  8. Dale Leonard Says:

    Subscription service’s are just Auto Maker Greed. The system is already built into the vehicle,and prices are threw the roof,but they want you to pay for them. My view if it’s in there then it’s free.

  9. WineGeek Says:

    Sean give me a break. $61,000 for a glorified (?) baby Volvo that booms on the highway and whines so you have to turn up the radio. Is that the best they can do? Tesla killer? probably not it may end up being a Polestar killer as a poor attempt to produce a viable electric vehicle. These manufacturers don’t seem to understand that they have to up their game if they want to be successful in the electric market. A nice interior sophisticated controls and electronics. Have a real story to tell not just we are making an electric vehicle and you should buy one because we told you to.

    Where are the great engineers that can really design something people want and the marketing geniuses that can convince people that they ought to buy one. More and better content not plastic soda bottles on the floor and phony leather on the seats.

    Get a life!

  10. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Chuck – We used to say “Cattle” but when we had Bob Galyen on AAH, he said most people in the company prefer C.A.T.L. So, that’s what we’ve been using since.

  11. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    GM charging monthly for Super Cruise Control? I’m going to go with a no on that. You can’t pass these subscriptions on to the next buyer thus lowering your resale and Cadillac’s resale was already pathetic to begin with. It moves Cadillac from maybe to absolutely not when looking for a new vehicle.

  12. JWH Says:

    GM Subscription Fee for Super Cruise – If I was in the market for a vehicle of that type, the fee would be a negative factor in my decision. We have a 2016 GM product & 2018 Ford product, & while both attempt to sell us map updates for the navigation systems, our response is No. Agree with those that have said. “They consider this part of the purchase price & updates should be included”.

    My 10 year old Garmin with Lifetime Maps & Traffic is this way.

  13. Roger Blose Says:

    Cadillac charging for Super Cruise is another MBA dream. What’s next, charging for heated and cooled seating based on the season? They should follow the korean model of loading their cars with useful surprise and delight features as standard which lowers the cost overall and assembly complexity.

  14. Kit Gerhart Says:

    With Tesla, you pay $7000 once for “autopilot.” With Cadillac, you pay $540/year for the fancier system. Break even is 13 years. I guess it depends on how long you keep the car, how depreciation works out, etc. I’d rather pay once, and don’t subscribe to anything, except cell phone service. I’m still getting mailings for SiriusXM trying to get me to subscribe for a car I haven’t had in years.

  15. Ed Says:

    GM super cruise… kinda like going for a hamburger on a string. As your leaving they take it back. I have the same “gut reaction” to both. Like the Tesla model S at resale who loose some features previously bought, but removed from the new owner at the next update. Not a good plan, not interested.

  16. ChuckGrenci Says:

    10, thanks Sean, I figured something like that. Probably similar to why there was no Chevy Nova in Mexico (or if there was, it didn’t go over very well). No va………no go

    On Cadillac’s monthly charge for Supercruise; it appears that Cadillac is not the lone wolf on these type charges as Tesla, Ford and others are also charging to help finance these systems. Supercruise seems to be really cool, and having to purchase the option for 5,000 dollars outright, it doesn’t come cheap to begin with, so it does rub a little raw that there is a monthly maintenance fee too.

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    12. I have a 12 year old Garmin that I got specifically for a trip to Europe, where I would be mostly in rural France and Belgium. I used it a few times in the U.S., but since I’ve had a smart phone, that is my navigation. I’ve never had a car with built in nav.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    10,15. The batteries are still “cattle” to me.

  19. MJB Says:

    Gonna have to weigh in with 7,8,11,12,13. No way GM should be trying to initiate a subscription service on Super Cruise.

    If autonomy is to be the way of the future, let it be baked into the purchase price of the car.

    Unless at least 50% of other car makers follow the same subscription model, GM’s climbing out on a limb that will surely break. I hope they realize this and simply back off before loosing sales to competitors who don’t charge monthly for similar tech.

  20. RickW Says:

    Sean,
    This is the second time I’ve heard you mention that CATL is making batteries that can become part of the frame of a vehicle, supposedly to save weight and space. Am I correct.???

    Well, all cars, CUV’s and most SUV’s have unibody construction. So I don’t understand how you can use the frame any differently than is currently being used on these vehicles. The battery’s are currently being made to fit the spaces on top of the Unibody (frame) or anywhere in between.

    Maybe I’m just old school, but when it’s mentioned that Batt’s will be made to fit in the frame, I think of open “C” channel frames.
    That would mean the battery maker is just packaging the battery in such a way to fit into the open “C” channel. Nothing earth shattering or progressive in my mind.

    I know I’m missing something regarding this topic but I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what the heck they are talking about.

    Maybe you can help me understand.
    Thanks

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    19. I agree. If no one else is going to use “subscription” for autonomy, Cadillac shouldn’t either. If everyone else used it, especially a leader in autonomy like Tesla, then, it would be ok.

    In my case, I’d pass on it, whether a $8K option on a Tesla Model Y, or $45/month on a CT5, two cars I might consider. I guess it’s not available on the CT5 anyway, though it might be at some point.

  22. XA351GT Says:

    Everyone brace yourselves for the response to the last story of the day . Oh boy .

  23. Larry D. Says:

    9 well said , agree 100%

    Written from the summer home balcony overlooking the after-sunset glow.

    Had two of my best flights ever, my exit row seat (two, one was empty) had more room than a FIRST Class seat, let alone a business class one. From Amsterdam on, a short 3 hour flight, I had 3 seats (sat at the window). At the destination, they made me wait in line and took the CV test again, but the upside is by then all y luggage pieces had arrived, and were the only ones on the belt, so I had quick exit. Then taxi to home, got the web set up, did some shopping, rested, a few phone calls, and enough time to do my first swim, 30 mins before and after sunset.

  24. Lambo2015 Says:

    I wonder if Cadillacs subscription service fee is just a way for them to gage consumer interest. Is it an option consumers are willing to pay for? If so are they willing to pay a monthly fee? Seems like answers that could be had with surveys but maybe they just want to test the waters.
    I really hope automakers don’t continue to think the way to generate revenue is by continued cash flow through subscriptions.. If so I’m thinking they will see a serious drop in sales on the horizon.

  25. Larry D. Says:

    on top of all the rest of it, the Polestar seems to not have discovered COLOR, glorious COLOR, in the interior. Everything is a bland and boring grey, white and black, very industrial and not luxury looking at all. No serious wood veneer (ironic, since the Scandinavians produce huge amounts of top quality wood)

    I dont know if Geely, the owner of Volvo, did sa market survey and the resPonders went for this lame styling, and what is this subsegment of the market. I doubt it.

    (typing in the dark)

  26. Lambo2015 Says:

    20 I too have wondered exactly what they mean by battery frame integration. I could easily see using the battery pack as a structural member. Due to the weight and structural integrity that would already be needed for the batteries it only makes sense to use the pack as a structural part of the vehicle.

    Plenty of upsides however seems at that point the battery may need replacing in an accident.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    24. It’s been a few years, but I once heard some numbers for “take rate” for Onstar, and it was in the low single digits for Cavalier, Cobalt, or something like that, but around 50% for some Cadillac models. Maybe typical Cadillac buyers won’t mind the subscription thing. Obviously, though, all of today’s commenters here would.

  28. Phred Says:

    As to Cadillac (aka GM) wanting to monetize as much in their cars as possible, why would you buy a car that requires a monthly fees to just drive ?? If you just must have this car, lease it and when you are tired of it including the fees as they are increased by GM…..walk away from all the monthly fees!

  29. Drew Says:

    If Cadillac is still charging $$$$ for the SuperCruise initial purchase, a subsequent monthly (or any time frequency) subscription fee seems very inappropriate. I just don’t see how the razor blade or cell phone revenue model applies. If there is no up-front acquisition fee, then I understand the subscription model…. but not both.

  30. Scott-in-Cleveland Says:

    In the barn find picture all you need to do is put a set of cardboard eyes in the GMC and you got yourself “Tow Mater” right there.

  31. Jon Says:

    POLESTAR GEELY VOLVO ARE A CHINESE COMPANY.

    AFTER THE WUHAN VIRUS RELEASE TO AMERICA FROM CHINA WHILE BANNING ALL FLIGHTS FROM WUHAN TO SHANGHAI AND BEJING ..

    CHINA and CHINESE CARS ARE BEING BOYCOTTED!

    Want to sell chinese trinkets to americans? Fine…want to sell 50 or 60 grand cars here…No Thanks.

    We will be at war with china in the south china sea soon enough. Try and get oarts for those ev polestar and Volvos then.

    Volvos leasing out volvo xc40s for 1000 DAS and $250 a month and while two years ago i looked at them. Now as my alfa lease is up…ill NEVER LEASE A VOLVO OR POLSTAR.

    Corona virus up their @$$. Boycott chinese communist party crap.

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    31 People will miss getting new iPhones.

  33. Tom Cain Says:

    If GM were to put the SuperCruise hardware in their entire product line, as they do with OnStar, I can see the subscription model. For me, I’d want to make sure it was easy to turn the subscription on and off at will. For most of my driving I’d have no use for it. For a road trip, I’d turn it on.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    25. Maybe you hadn’t noticed, but no one, except some premium brands have color. Tesla are worse than most in that regard with only 5 paint colors, all except one costing extra, and two choices for the interior.

    I’m surprised that Volvo even released the Polestar 2, given that it’s boomy and whiney. I wouldn’t want that in any car, even a $20K econobox. They should have done their homework before releasing it. As far as it looking “generic,” that should be ok with a lot of people, given the hate we’ve heard against Priuses for 15 years, because they do not look generic.

  35. Sunrack Says:

    After reviewing the Power Wagon and GMC truck pics, I still am wondering what kind of vehicle is the red cab at the upper right in the first pic of the trucks?

  36. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Totally off-topic and probably a topic in Tuesday’s show, Ram announced the TRX pickup (Raptor competitor) with the ‘Demon’esk’ supercharged hemi; 707 h/p. Fully off-road capable and fast/quick. There are videos available on TFL Trucks (no link from me, but available if you want to peruse).

  37. ChuckGrenci Says:

    36, Oops; 702 h/p, not 707. (as if that’s makes a difference) ;)

  38. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    I too doubt that the polestar will be a TESLA killer with boom and whine noises. In fact, the TESLAs I have driven all had boom and whine at about the same speed too and I hate it on those cars. I haven’t driven the Audi E-Tron yet but I have driven the Jaguar I-Pace and that car is eerily quiet without any driveline noise anywhere. Jaguar really did a good job on NVH with the I-Pace. A shame nobody will notice LOL

  39. Ukendoit Says:

    I checked out the TRX, it will be over $70K and not for me, but looks cool. I like the interior, except there is an exclusive metal badge right where my right elbow would rest (ouch!).
    The Challenger/Charger/Durango variants make 800 horsepower with that engine, so I wonder why they used the smaller supercharger and only 702 HP for the TRX. Maybe they wanted to leave room for improvement if Ford responds with a souped-up Raptor?

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    39. The TRX may cost a LOT over $70K. Car and Driver just wrapped up a long term test of a top trim Ram with the 5.7 mild hybrid, and it was $66K. They generally liked it, except for a few problems they had. It was luxurious, as promised, but thirsty, averaging only 14 mpg over the 40K miles, and they found that its hugeness was clearly not a good thing when parking, and when making turns in town. I see that a lot where I am now, these big pickups going far left of the center line, when making turns at some intersections.

  41. Larry D. Says:

    34 Ι am aware and notice everything.

    BTW

    Geely-VOlvo reported a 43% drop in earnings.

    No wonder.

    And Ford, you will hear it in today’s show, is slashing the prices of the Explorer and its other SUVs I wonder why. (remember their ridiculous heights, esp the top editions. a few months back?)

  42. Ukendoit Says:

    Hi Kit, I actually do drive a RAM 2500 now, so I know exactly what you are talking about. It is very thirsty; 13 mpg is about what I average without being a hybrid. I just averaged 17 MPH on a 1100 mile roadtrip from ATL to STL and back. I’ve gotten used to driving the RAM, but it is larger than any vehicles I come across unless they are 4X4 or lifted.
    I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee, Explorer, and Element, so I thought I would downsize for a commuter car when I was ready to trade the Jeep, but ended up buying a large travel trailer and needed something with more towing power. I only drive 5 miles to work, so with a huge fuel tank I don’t have to fill up often, but it hurts when I do!

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    42 C and D got 17 mpg with their Ram 1500 4wd test truck at a steady 75 mph. Slowing down makes a huge difference in highway mileage with big vehicles like that, as Consumer Reports got 24 mpg at 65 mpg with a similar truck in their tests. CR seems to do a good job with their gas mileage testing, but I don’t know how C and D does their steady speed testing.

  44. Larry D. Says:

    Checked my investments on the web just a min ago and yesterday (I was traveling and with all the unpacking forgot to check) new all time records were made (US Markets only! European ones, I also found out, did MISERABLY all this time), and my total jumped (it was close for days) to its next million. Very strange difference, Euro markets fell by 20, 30 and 40% in 2020, while the US market goes from new all time high to higher ones every day. I am sure there will be a ton of exlpanations and excuses.

  45. Larry D. Says:

    Checked my investments on the web just a min ago and yesterday (I was traveling and with all the unpacking forgot to check) new all time records were made (US Markets only! European ones, I also found out, did MISERABLY all this time), and my total jumped (it was close for days) to its next million. Very strange difference, Euro markets fell by 20, 30 and 40% in 2020, while the US market goes from new all time high to higher ones every day. I am sure there will be a ton of exlpanations and excuses.

  46. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    43) That is terrible fuel economy. When I had my 2018 F150 4×4 I was averaging 19MPG at 85MPH. slowing to 70 and taking it easy netted me 22MPG. I would expect much better from the Ram, but I guess that is not the case. Must be one of the reasons why the F150 outsells the RAM.

  47. Kit Gerhart Says:

    46. Did you check your mileage by dividing out a few consecutive fillups, or just use the readout? Those readouts are sometimes “optimistic.”

    CR’s F150 with the 2.7 turbo got 2 mpg better “overall” and highway than a Ram with the 5.7 V8. Both were 4wd “crew cab.”

  48. Ukendoit Says:

    The RAM is a 2500 with the HEMI, geared for pulling, and a bit loaded down (not towing anything this time though). The 1500 rides much smoother and gets better MPG. The best I’ve averaged on a highway trip was 21.5, the worst was when towing at just over 7 MPG.