AD #2903 – Musk Teases Higher Energy Density Battery; Active Wheel Alignment System; Toyota Maximizing CUV Sales
August 25th, 2020 at 12:02pm
Listen to “AD #2903 – Musk Tweets About Higher Energy Density; Active Wheel Alignment System; Toyota Maximizing CUV Sales” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 11:22
0:07 Elon Musk Tweets About Higher Energy Density Battery
0:46 Tesla Teases Interesting Image
1:12 Tesla Model 3 Holds Its Value
2:04 Hyundai Mobis Wants to Sell to More OEMs
3:27 How Mazda Will Manage Sales Downturn
5:21 Porsche Expands Subscription Services
6:21 Australian Company Develops Active Wheel Alignment
7:14 Rolls-Royce Ghost Gets Illuminated Fascia
8:19 Toyota RAV4 PRIME vs. Venza Impressions
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
MUSK TWEETS ABOUT HIGHER ENERGY DENSITY BATTERY
Elon Musk is dropping all kinds of hints about where battery development is going, even before Tesla holds its much anticipated Battery Day on September 22 that has Tesla fans giddy with excitement. The Panasonic 2170 battery cells that Tesla uses have an energy density of 260 watt hours per kilogram. But Musk tweeted out that’s probably going to 400 watt hours in the next three to four years. That suggests Tesla could chop the battery pack in half without losing any range, which would significantly cut the cost of its cars.
TESLA TEASES INTERESTING IMAGE
Tesla also teased a picture on its website that looks like the image from an electron microscope. Reuters quotes a battery expert from South Korea who believes it shows a silicon nanowire anode which could increase energy density and battery life. Tesla stock briefly rallied on the news, then settled back down again. So we’re probably going to see more teases like this over the next month.
TESLA MODEL 3 HOLDS ITS VALUE
One of the things that has held back EV adoption is low residual values. But that could change thanks to the Tesla Model 3. It’s only a small sample size but early data shows the Model 3 is retaining its value better than other small luxury vehicles and it sells quickly once it hits the used market. According to ISeeCars.com, it was the fastest selling used car between March and June of this year, only taking about 30 days on average to sell. And three-year old models only lost about 10% of their value on average. The Model 3 has done a good job of retaining its value because there isn’t really a comparable alternative in the used market and inventory is low, so you have to pay up to get one and Tesla’s over-the-air updates help improve the vehicle as it ages.
HYUNDAI MOBIS WANTS TO SELL TO MORE AUTOMAKERS
Speaking of EVs, Hyundai’s in-house supplier company called Hyundai Mobis wants to sell EV components to other automakers. Even though it already does business with some other automakers, Mobis gets 90% of its revenue from the Hyundai Group. But the only way it can get the economies of scale it needs to drive down the cost of EV components is to sell them to as many automakers as it can. Hyundai wants to capture 10% of the global EV market by 2025 and it can only get there if it can cut the cost of its electric vehicles.
HOW MAZDA WILL NAVIGATE SALES DOWNTURN
Most automakers are struggling due to the pandemic but not Mazda. While its sales are down in the U.S., it’s far less than any other automaker this year. And as a result, it’s picking up market share. On Autoline This Week, Jeff Guyton, the President of Mazda North America, talked about how it’s been able to navigate the downturn.
Jeff Guyton, President, Mazda North America
“You know it’s interesting to us, when we look at market share in Mazda because we’re modestly sized and we don’t participate in the whole industry in the U.S. When we look at our share, actually it is tempting to see it as something that exploded after the whole COVID crisis began. But we actually saw it beginning to trend well at the end of last year, last calendar year, after the introduction of CX-30. And there are a number of factors, including CX-30, but we’ve seen a pretty steady upward trend since then. And we’re really excited, first about CX-30 but also about the fact that we have now completed more than 140 of our, we call them retail evolution outlets, and that’s really changing the face of Mazda in the United States. Both in terms of appearance and also customer experience. Then coming out of the pandemic we also launched a partnership with Mazda Financial Services, which is powered by Toyota and that’s also making a big impact on our sales. So we see a pretty steady upward trend for our share, starting even before the pandemic.”
For more about Mazda and its plans in North America, you can watch that entire show now on our website or YouTube channel.
PORSCHE EXPANDS ITS SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE
When most automakers are closing or scaling back their subscription services, Porsche is actually expanding its. The automaker introduced a new Single-Vehicle Subscription program that is offered alongside its Multi-Vehicle Subscription, which allows users to switch between models. The new service allows access to a single model for 1 or 3 months, starting on September 25th and is available in Los Angeles, Atlanta, Phoenix, and San Diego. Pricing ranges from $1,500 to $2,600 a month, depending on the model, but those who choose the 1-month subscription will have to pay a nearly $600 activation fee as well. Porsche said it’s launching the new service due to member feedback, but the subscription program, in general, also attracts new people to the brand with 80% of participants new to Porsche, many of whom are much younger than the average age of its current buyers.
AUSTRALIAN COMPANY DEVELOPS ACTIVE WHEEL ALIGNMENT
An Australian company, called DOFTEK, developed an interesting solution to improve vehicle performance, while also improving emissions. Its active wheel alignment system electronically adjusts the camber, caster and toe of the front wheels of a vehicle in real-time to the conditions of a road surface. DOFTEK says the system is compatible with existing suspension geometries and improves handling by 15%, reduces rolling resistance by 10% and peak tire temperatures by 10%. We love the idea of being able to push our car even further to the limits on the track or getting the best possible fuel economy going to the grocery store and all while getting even more service life out of our tires. But messing up your vehicle’s suspension is already an expensive repair, and we wonder what this would add to the cost?
ROLLS-ROYCE GHOST GETS ILLUMINATED FASCIA
The new Rolls-Royce Ghost makes its world premiere in one week and to hold us over until then, the company is showing off one of its features. It’s a bespoke illuminated fascia located in the interior of the vehicle on the passenger side of the dashboard. The Ghost nameplate is surrounded by 850 stars, which are invisible when the car is not in operation. It’s made up of 152 LEDs that are located above and beneath the fascia, which are color matched with the clock and instrument dial lighting. While it doesn’t look like much, it took two years and over 10,000 hours to develop. But it was deliberately minimalistic based on feedback from current Ghost owners who didn’t want a busy design.
TOYOTA RAV4 PRIME VS. VENZA
We had a Toyota RAV4 Prime and a Toyota Venza come through the Autoline Garage and it’s fascinating to compare the two together. Toyota is clearly trying to see how it can maximize sales in the crossover segment, even though, under the skin, each of these vehicles look very similar. They both sit on Toyota’s TNGA platform and both have the same 2.5 liter gasoline engine, and the same CVT. They also have the same wheelbase and track and very similar interior dimensions. But the Prime gets more powerful electric motors than the Venza does. While the Prime delivers 302 total horsepower the Venza delivers 219. And the Prime can go from 0 to 60 miles an hour in 5.7 seconds–according to Toyota, while the Venza does it in 7.6 seconds–according to Car And Driver. The EPA says the Venza will deliver 39 miles to the gallon while the RAV4 Prime delivers 38. But being a plug-in, the Prime can travel 42 miles in EV mode and is also rated at 94 MPGe. So the RAV4 Prime is clearly faster and more fuel efficient but you pay substantially more for that performance. The one we drove was priced at $48,000, while the loaded Venza came in at $41,000. One thing is for sure, both these vehicles are infinitely better than they were a few years ago. The Venza and RAV4 are now very well put together but they used to be hollow-sounding boxes with plenty of shake, rattle and roll. In fact, the Venza sold so poorly that Toyota yanked it off the market in 2015, and is just bringing it back now. The question is why? After all, the RAV4 is Toyota’s best selling vehicle in the American market. But maybe Toyota thinks that with some different styling and a few tweaks here and there it can take that platform and squeeze a few more sales out of the CUV segment.
Even though General Motors keeps hyping its future EVs like the Cadillac Lyriq, what’s going into its showrooms right now are its all-new full-size SUVs. That includes the Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon and Escalade. And to learn more about them we have Tim Herrick, the vice president of GM’s global products coming on Autoline After Hours. GM absolutely dominates that segment and we’ll learn how it plans to maintain its dominance. So join John and Gary this Thursday for a deep dive into some of the most profitable vehicles in the automotive industry.
But that’s it for today’s show, thanks for watching and we’ll see you again tomorrow.
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Comments (42)
August 25th, 2020 at 12:05 pm
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/08/as-ford-moves-forward-with-electric-f-150-preparations-online-chatter-leaves-it-in-the-dust/
Pickup trucks IMO are the least likely candidates for pure BEVs. Did FOrd do a market study? Or does it believe, that just because it sells a million F150s in a good year, it can sell 50 or 100k BEV versions of them?
August 25th, 2020 at 12:12 pm
Sure sure, if you can believe Musk! That’s how he manipulates the market by spewing out hints of something much better that’s in the making. I’ll believe it when it happens maybe in 3 years.
August 25th, 2020 at 12:14 pm
The new Venza seems to be a much smaller lighter vehicle than the Failed Venza of a decade ago, which was a fat 4000 lb + wagon.
The most ridiculous story in today’s news was the bit about the fake stars on the dash of the RR Ghost. It contrasts so starkly to the previews of HUGE battery breakthrus from Caddy (I’m JOKING, poor Joe! from ALMIGHTY TESLA!)
August 25th, 2020 at 12:25 pm
If you want to stick your head in the sand like a dumb ostrich and assume there is nothing in Elon Musk’s hints about Battery Breakthrus (while the idiots at Caddy do styling exercises and rearrange the chairs in their Titanic-Lyric),
you cannot however ignore the 100% FACT, the VERY important fact, of the Tesla 3 (I noticed it also in the Tesla S for years) retaining much of its value.
Its success is DOUBLY impressive because BEVs is a FAST moving, not a mature segment, and MEDIOCRE BEVs (hint, Joe: all NON-Teslas) command PITIFUL resale prices. Remember when you could buy a used Leaf for $5,000 with low miles?
August 25th, 2020 at 12:28 pm
according to Sandy Munro Elon Musk consistently lies, in last few years, by understating what Tesla is doing and their technology advancements
August 25th, 2020 at 12:33 pm
The new Venza is 2 inches shorter, 3 inches taller, and 235 pounds lighter than the old one. It’s so close to the RAV4, what’s the point? Why won’t they just build the ultimate, practical car, a Camry hybrid wagon, without making it 10 inches taller like the Venza? It would probably sell in Europe, and might sell better in the US than they think.
August 25th, 2020 at 12:38 pm
GM will have an electric truck in 2021 that will do 400+ miles on a charge.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/18/21329752/gm-electric-pickup-truck-tesla-ford
Many other auto builders are also working on electric trucks
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-electric-trucks/eight-electric-pickup-truck-manufacturers-to-load-up-u-s-market-by-2021-idUSKBN1XZ1W7
Poor little Tesla, what will they do? They do not have the infrastructure to build so many. Maybe they can build more tents!
August 25th, 2020 at 12:45 pm
According to Kelly Blue Book the Model X is the best full electric when it comes to resale. No mention of the other Tesla models. Subaru has a lot of models that hold their value.
https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/best-resale-value-cars-trucks-suvs/
August 25th, 2020 at 12:53 pm
People tend to care for a vehicle when they are invested and when I say invested meaning the resale value will depend on how well they take care of the vehicle. Not to mention reducing repairs.
Which is why people say buying a used car from a rental company is like looking for a wife at a whore house. So how much abuse do you suppose these Porsche vehicles will see that are part of this subscription service? It would be interesting to see how often the tires alone need replaced on these vehicles. Hopefully being part of a subscription service shows up on the car fax report. Something I would certainly avoid.
August 25th, 2020 at 1:00 pm
I have a suggestion for KIA. Please add the surround view camera to all trims of the 2021 Telluride. Also provide a chrome wheel option for the SX trim. Some of us are not into the Blackout look on our rides.
August 25th, 2020 at 1:06 pm
@Sean, could you please explain your statement: “That suggests Tesla could chop the battery pack in half without losing any range, which would significantly cut the cost of its cars.”?
August 25th, 2020 at 1:11 pm
4
Here’s a fact for you. Where does Tesla rate in quality by JD Power? Answer, at the absolute bottom of the list. Chevrolet (an inexpensive car) rates number 3.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/06/29/j-d-power-rates-tesla-electric-vehicles-as-lowest-quality-auto-brand-in-2020-study/
August 25th, 2020 at 1:17 pm
I posted something similar yesterday, but given the discussion of resale value of EVs today:
A big question regarding residual value of EVs, is what happens as they approach 8 years of age, when the batteries go off warranty, and a few years after that when the batteries start failing in large numbers? The price of batteries, and the status of the battery “rebuilding” business, availability of batteries from wrecks, etc. will have a lot of bearing on value of used EVs with a lot of miles, and especially, years. Still, I wouldn’t want to pay much for an 8 year old car that might soon need a $15K battery.
August 25th, 2020 at 1:22 pm
@12: thanks fro those interesting facts, Joe
August 25th, 2020 at 2:12 pm
11 The statement needs NO explanation. There is a DESIGN SPIRAL thru which further savings are achieved once you save on weight. IT is really obvious. Use your brains.
August 25th, 2020 at 2:15 pm
2 RIght, Joe… It’s all market manipulation. Even the WORST of the WORST students in a class learns something. NOT YOU, though. Keep believing the earth is flat.
PS are the BRILLIANT Elon MUsk’s EPIC, STELLAR achievements in his more glamorous SPACEX company also.. market manipulation?
DO you REALLY have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, or are you just trying to annoy me?
August 25th, 2020 at 2:23 pm
@15: “needs NO explanation”, “Use your brains” as answers to a question to Sean for an explanation. Your platitudes without any content are, as usual, a waste of space, Larry.
August 25th, 2020 at 2:36 pm
It’s common knowledge that the price of batteries has dropped significantly in the last 5 years. Yet manufacturers have not responded by dropping EV prices. So as a consumer, I could care less what battery technology is leading to until the $ benefits leak down to me.
The Renault idea of leasing the battery is an excellent way to get the price of EVs down to ICE prices. The actual cost of leasing the battery is quite low. I would buy an EV that way.
August 25th, 2020 at 2:52 pm
@17–Larry can express his opinion, don’t care either way. But it grates me that it’s invariably accompanied by insults to others’ intelligence. Seriously, can’t you disagree with someone without being a jerk?
August 25th, 2020 at 2:54 pm
18 I think many people expect electric cars to be similar as what has happened to say, the gas weed wacker or gas power-washer. Those are items that in their gas versions were much more expensive than their electric equivalent. People would learn to deal with some of the shortcomings of EVs if their was a cost advantage. Its just a real hard sell when they are not as convenient and cost more. Batteries dropping in price is a critical obstacle for EVs.
August 25th, 2020 at 2:56 pm
19 Someone left home without his meds.. Hopefully somewhere in EU they have what he needs. Although happy pills can only do so much.
August 25th, 2020 at 3:02 pm
16
The next thing you’ll tell me is SpaceX invented the rocket.
For you information, NASA gave all the blue prints to SpacexX. Your so call genius, Elon, would like to take all the credit for himself.
August 25th, 2020 at 3:08 pm
17 In case Sean doesn’t get back to you:
I believe his comment implied that if Elon can double the density from 240 to 400 watts per kilogram that would correspondingly double the range. They then could theoretically maintain the existing range with a battery of half the current size. Due to the reduction in weight I’m guessing they could double the range without an actual doubling of capacity.
August 25th, 2020 at 3:28 pm
22 you cueless fool:
It will be a cold day in Hell when I will take any “information” from the clueless and bigoted likes of YOU seriously.
NASA and the BRILLIANT ELon Musk are COLLABORATING, of course they gave him all kinds of info, you silly clueless clown.
BUT MUSK DID WONDERS with it!!~!! He Cut their costs WITHOUT compromising safety by 90%!!!!!! ANd this is REAL info you can put in your clueless pipe and smoke it.
My mistake wasting time with the likes of you…keep believing the earth is flat and that…. CADDY of all makers will… Beat… THE ALMIGHTY TESLA.
Dream on… LOL
August 25th, 2020 at 3:30 pm
@18 – I understand your point, but it is also helpful to recognize that most (if not all) electrified vehicle manufactures have been loosing money on them due to the battery costs. So as battery prices have dropped, the vehicles start to become profitable. At some point when the margins catch up, we can see how much of the future cost improvements are passed along to the customer.
August 25th, 2020 at 3:40 pm
I don’t see what all the hype is about regarding EV breakthroughs in technology when none of it becomes available for many years. What counts are what is available this year and next. A lot will happen in 3-4 years but it doesn’t matter much until that time comes. By then, Tesla may not rein supreme; And that is a sure thing.
August 25th, 2020 at 3:46 pm
@23: thank you, Lambo. The background for my question is that the energy density would double and I wonder whether what effect that would have on the cost. Just like a 280 HP 2.0 liter ICE costs more than a 200 HP engine. How those cost are per HP, per pound or any other relevant parameter I do not know, either. I am just trying to learn.
August 25th, 2020 at 3:47 pm
“HOW MAZDA WILL NAVIGATE SALES DOWNTURN”
Mazda has an advantage here, because it has decades of experience in falling sales. I seriously DOUBT that its sales losses are “far less” than any other automakers, and I would BET that TESLA sales, for one, suffered much LESS than MAΖ, IF they suffered AT ALL.
THis story was even more amusing than the ROlls fake stars on the dash silliness.
August 25th, 2020 at 3:50 pm
Oh, and another thing for clueless, Tesla hating Joe.
Unlike YOU, I listened to HOURS of NASA and SPACEX presentations, and the NASA people NEVER said anything about giving any blueprints to the Brilliant Elon Musk, BUT instead, they Praised MUSK TO HIGH HEAVEN FOR HIS ACHIEVEMENTS.
On the other hand, Cwolf may think that Tesla hating Joe knows better… HAHAHAHAH….
August 25th, 2020 at 3:51 pm
24. He’s cueless? I guess he can’t play pool today.
Do you talk to people in person like this or are you another Internet tough guy, emboldened by the anonymity of same?
August 25th, 2020 at 4:07 pm
27. It’s mostly about the cost/kWh, but higher energy density cells would reduce weight for a battery of the same capacity, always a good thing, as long as the higher energy density cells have as long of service life.
August 25th, 2020 at 4:08 pm
@30 If you ask me, Hysterical Larry is an emotionally unstable airhead.
August 25th, 2020 at 4:17 pm
Larry, your comment was undeserving and I don’t care about SpaceX one iota!
But these are facts that cannot be disputed:
Tesla is overvalued. It cannot depend upon selling credits to show a profit in the long term.
It’s stock splits mean something. I believe large investors are starting to question its value, so Tesla is turning to the small guys in an attempt to make up the difference.
Other EVs will soon become more competitive, then Tesla will have no choice but to alter their manufacturing to address their QC issues. Increasing production at the sake of QC will become a cost factor that cannot be ignored and a pricey one at that.
The Tesla interior is drab and others already are capitalizing on this weakness.
I do not dislike Tesla’s. They just do not appeal to me, yet wish them success.
So, Larry, get off my a$$ implying I am a Tesla hater.
August 25th, 2020 at 6:54 pm
Source: JD Powers initial quality ranking -> Tesla is dead last after JD Powers self-selects their confessed incomplete sample set
Source: Consumer Reports car rankings -> Tesla Model 3 is first in all age groups.
Source: Autoline Daily, Aug 25 -> Tesla Model 3 resale value highest retained value.
Source: Tesla Investor Relations -> 5-to-1 stock split, closed $2,023.34 on Aug 25 (bought my shares at $300.)
Personal experience: $2.70/100 miles or less from free chargers; $3.00-3.50/100 miles highway using overnight free charging for the lower rate, and; neck/shoulder ache from accelerating in “chill” mode at lights. No oil or coolant changes; no brake pad wear; no emissions testing or emissions system maintenance, and; no “Cop calling noise” doing hard acceleration. Immune from catalytic converter thieves and no risk of tall grass fires.
August 25th, 2020 at 10:09 pm
Regarding the cost of batteries coming down and automakers passing the saving to their customers, I doubt it or the customers will not see much saving. I believe this for two reasons. First, for the years that the automakers sold the EV’s and made little to no profit, as the cost of the tech lowers, they are able to recoup some of those initial costs. Secondly, and most importantly for the automakers, if people will buy the vehicles at the big price, why lower it?! The prices come down as the market demands it through competition. ‘If the customer is willing to buy the product at the price I set, why sell it cheaper? But if the competition sells the same thing for less, then so do we if we want to stay in business!’ Businesses want your money and as much as they can get and the will not leave any of it on the table, if they don’t have too.
August 25th, 2020 at 10:44 pm
I hope that there is better and cheaper battery tech. Battery prices need to come down to have parity with ICE cars otherwise it won’t really take off. Another way for ICE sales to take off is for all of us to suddenly get 20% raises in pay. As I don’t see that happening anytime soon, it would appear that we need to head down the make it cheaper path.
GM has the lead on battery tech at the moment. I suspect that this is why Elon has been spouting off about some nebulous tech that is 3 or 4 years away. He can’t be seen as behind on EV tech; even though he currently is. 4 years from now GM should already be in the next gen of their battery tech. Lets see if they can keep the lead on it. Either way, it will be an interesting future for sure.
August 25th, 2020 at 10:44 pm
36) Meant to say BEV sales to take off
August 26th, 2020 at 5:40 am
37 LOL General Mediocrity ( or, more accurately, the ‘new’ General Mediocrity, after the old one went BANKRUPT and was bailed out by ME the TAXPAYER AGAINST MY WILL, will never have the lead in ANY technology or anything else. They are born LOSERS.
Keep your irrational hatred for the BRILLIANT ELON Musk and TESLA, which ALREADY DOMINATES EV markets, BY FAR, going. Maybe you can have a CONTEST (like the one in SEINFELD) with Ziggy, Joe and Cwolf. Perfect quartet too!~!! LOL!!!!!
PS “Mekur Driver”? Seriously? Is this what you want us to call you? If it was “Ferarri Driver”, “Lambo Driver”, even “Rolls or Merc Driver”, it might make some sense. But that UTTER LOSER “Merkur”???!!!!
August 26th, 2020 at 5:45 am
Speaking of taxes, I look forward (not really) to my 2020s… yesterday was another six-digit gain day for my mutual funds in my investments and the 401ks. I will not be surprised that by Dec 31, my cap gains and divs distributions will be 2-3 times my not inconsiderable salary again… I need to move to a tax haven.. anybody here know the details? (I’m sure you do…) DOn’t give me anh Carribean crap. I prefer Monaco.
August 26th, 2020 at 8:16 am
38) Nothing in your message showed any data as to why the GM battery tech is behind TESLA tech. The rest of your screed is meaningless.
August 26th, 2020 at 8:25 am
38 OMG Larry give it a rest. Would you like me to venmo you the $75 that was your part of the GM bailout, even though it has been paid back in full ahead of schedule. Oh and just for comparison the banks were given $2,153 of your money. All but 33B (or your portion $103) of it was paid back. I for one think a $75 loan to keep thousands of people working was worthy it.
27 Yeah I’m no electrical engineer but I also wondered if just increasing capacity has a direct linear result of power /range output. And as you elude to does the cost for that density double making weight and space the only savings.. All good questions.
August 26th, 2020 at 8:46 am
38. Larry, why your irrational hate for GM, while you are completely ok with Tesla’s crappy build quality? Even my “old” C7 Corvette is a great sports car, competing well with cars twice its price, and the the C8 is even better. GM products are far from mediocre.