Episode 280 – Sweden’s Automakers In Turmoil, Nissan Working On New Battery, New Mustang Engine
November 30th, 2009 at 12:00pm
Runtime 7:11
New developments in regards to the future of both Saab and Volvo. Nissan said its working on doubling the range of its lithium-ion battery for electric vehicles. Ford announced that the Mustang will get a brand-new base engine for 2011. All that and more, plus a look at Volkswagen’s redesigned Golf.
Transcript and Story Links after the jump . . .
Here are today’s top headlines. Sweden’s automakers are in enormous turmoil. Nissan has a new battery that will double the range of its electric car. And the Mustang will get a new engine to battle the Camaro.
Up next, we’ll be back with the news behind the headlines.
This is Autoline Daily for Monday, November 30, 2009. And now, the news.
The people in Sweden must be sitting on pins and needles. The news is coming fast and furious in regards to the future of both Saab and Volvo. Saab, as we reported last week, is on its deathbed unless a last minute deal is put together. The AP reports that Saab’s CEO Jan Ake Jonsson is in Detroit today to confer with General Motors about potential new bidders who might buy the car company. Bloomberg reports that BAIC, the Beijing Auto Industry Corporation says “stay tuned.” It may put in another bid. And there are several private equity firms that are interested as well. We should know more tomorrow.
Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal reports that Geely has reached a deal with Ford (subscription required) to get the intellectual property rights to Volvo. That includes access to key technology related to safety and the environment. And that seems to remove the last impediment to the Chinese automaker taking control of the iconic Swedish brand.
Nissan said its working on a lithium-ion battery that will nearly double the power of the one that will be used in the Leaf. According to the AFP, the new battery can power an electric car for 190 miles or 300 kilometers on a single charge. Nissan said it would like to use the battery by 2015 and that it will cost about the same to produce as other lithium-ion batteries.
Car sales in the U.S. may finally be turning the corner. According to Bloomberg, November sales are expected to come in at a higher rate than last November. The seasonal annual adjusted rate is predicted to come in at 10.5 million vehicles up from 10.2 the prior year.
Mustang enthusiasts rejoice, today Ford announced that the iconic ponycar gets a brand-new base engine for 2011. The 3.7-liter Duratec V-6 six delivers 305 horsepower and 280 pound-feet of torque – 95 more ponies than the ANCIENT 4.0-liter lump it replaces. Available with either a six-speed manual or six-speed automatic transmission, the company estimates that it’ll get up to 30 miles per gallon on the highway. Looking at the numbers, they’re all over the new Camaro’s, which delivers 304 horsepower and 29 miles per gallon.
With flocks of Tata Nanos about to descend on roads all over India, two companies have teamed up to offer buyers customization options for the tiny car. Autoblog reports that Carnation Auto and DC Design will launch a range of body kits sometime next year. The custom designs for the Nano are still under development, but judging by the pictures they’re really trying to make a statement. With one of these kits you won’t lose your Nano in the Wal-Mart parking lot.
Coming up next, a look at Volkswagen’s redesigned Golf, we’ll be back right after this.
Recently Volkswagen invited us to Germany to test-drive the new, sixth-generation Golf. You heard right, I said Golf. The company dumped the Rabbit name AGAIN in North America, and is going back to calling the car what the rest of the world knows it as.
The Golf comes in a couple different flavors. The two-door hatch is the value leader starting around $18,000, including shipping and handling. The four-door is a little pricier, starting around $20,000. Don’t think these entry-level models are bare bones though. They come standard with amenities like cruise control; power windows, locks and mirrors; and complimentary “Carefree” maintenance for the length of the factory warranty. It covers things like oil changes and tire rotations.
Under the hood, buyers can opt for either a 2.5-liter five cylinder engine or a 2.0-liter TDI diesel. The gas-burning I-5 delivers 170 horsepower and up to 30 miles per gallon on the highway. The turbocharged diesel offers 140 horsepower, but can smoke the tires with 236 pound-feet of twist.
Both engines have plenty of power, but the five-cylinder sounds gruff when you rev it up. The TDI is definitely the one to get, delivering tons of torque and better fuel economy to boot – 30 in the city, 41on the open road.
As for transmissions, a five-speed manual or a six-speed automatic are available with the five-cylinder. The diesel offers either a six-speed manual or a six-speed DSG – Volkswagen’s fast-shifting, dual-clutch gearbox.
Venturing out into the German countryside, and later the Autobahn, the Golf impressed us with its solidity. It’s capable on twisty roads and handles triple-digit speed with ease. On the highway, it’s totally comfortable up to about 110 miles an hour, beyond that though it starts to feel a little nervous, as does the driver.
The redesigned Mark VI Volkswagen Golf sports fresh exterior styling that gives it a little more edge and an updated interior. It should be available at dealerships right now.
This coming Wednesday we’ll be webcasting live right from the floor of the LA Auto show, from 11:30 AM Pacific Time to 1:30 PM. That’s 2:30 to 4:30 Eastern time. And then on Thursday we’ll be live with Autoline After Hours from the LA show in its normal time slot.
And that’s it for today’s top news in the global automotive industry. Thanks for watching, we’ll see you tomorrow.
Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog, The Auto Channel, WardsAuto.com and WWJ Newsradio 950
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Comments (70)
November 30th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Not hard to beat last Novembers auto sales. That’s right when their was talk of not bailing out the domestic automakers…
November 30th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
I read on another forum where GM actually put SAAB in the NEW GM vs the old one, making it much more difficult to just let it be liquidated. Not sure if this is true or not, but would be a significant difference between it and Saturn.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
“Car sales in the U.S. may finally be turning the corner. According to Bloomberg, November sales are expected to come in at a higher rate than last November. The seasonal annual adjusted rate is predicted to come in at 10.5 million vehicles up from 10.2 the prior year.”
I remember John McElroy strongly protested doing year-to-year comparisons, as we always should, and for several months insisted on doing month to prior month ones, when it suited his theories. Now it is very amusing to see that he endorses the year to year method once again, now that Nov 2009 can’t possibly be any worse than the utterly dismal Nov 2008!!!
November 30th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
And no, the above is no proof at all that sales are turning any corner. They are utterly dismal any way you cut it, whether they stay at last Novs 10.2 mill or inch up to a virtually identical 10.5 mill this year. After all, this year the US population is 4 million higher than last year, and the above difference is even smaller than that, %-wise.
5 years ago and 20 million fewer Americans, the sales rate was 17 Million annually. This year, with 10.2 or 10.5 million, will give CHina the chance to be the world’s no. 1 Auto COnsumer market! And not with POS but with 67% imported, high quality and very highly priced cars too!
November 30th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
“Mustang enthusiasts rejoice, today Ford announced that the iconic ponycar gets a brand-new base engine for 2011. The 3.7-liter Duratec V-6 six delivers 305 horsepower and 280 pound-feet of torque – 95 more ponies than the ANCIENT 4.0-liter lump it replaces.”
Why not give Mustang the same 360 HP ECOBOOST Turbo v6 the SHO Taurus gets instead????
November 30th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
The Golf is a very high-quality auto, you get an almost luxury German interior for a fraction of the price, and great handling and MPG especially with the Diesel. John correctly points out that the Diesel is the way to go, but forgets to tell us the price, which should be higher (or much higher, because of different option packages) than the base $18k bargain gas Golf.
Also note that actual MPG with the Diesel will be much higher than the low-ball EPA estimates, as proven by independent testers last year.
Fortunately VW corrected their mistake to go from Golf to the Silly Wabbit name quickly….
November 30th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
@ Jim S.:I’m just guessing here,but the new v6 Ford will use as it’s BASE engine,not to compete (yet) with the higher output 5.4L V-8,same same as the Camaro.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
The Golf TDI Diesel base model costs +$24,500.00. If thats the starting price. I hope it has an upgraded interior!
November 30th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
“# dcars Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
The Golf TDI Diesel base model costs +$24,500.00. If thats the starting price. I hope it has an upgraded interior!”
Both interiors should be excellent, but the $18,500 base gas golf and the $24,500 diesel have very different option levels. In principle, the diesel is only about $1000 more expensive than the gas version, if equipped with the same options. But in the past all diesels allocated to the US were sold early and there were shortages.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Now that Golf, esp. the GTI version, might be a car to consider when shopping for a Mini. They are about the same price too. But most other makers do not really have a mini-fighter, the Mazdaspeed3 is too weird looking, the Civic SI has been discontinued (?) etc.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
The ‘Pony Wars’ are heating up again. Hope it maintains some excitement in the automotive community. hmmmmmm, another Trans-Am series of yore? Sounds good to me.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Jim Sachetti Says:
Why not give Mustang the same 360 HP ECOBOOST Turbo v6 the SHO Taurus gets instead????
–
Good question…. Although; JohnMc. said the base version of the Mustang and I guess 305 it’s OK.
-I think the SHO starts at $35,000 and the Mustang at around $24,000.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
# G.A.Branigan Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
@ Jim S.:I’m just guessing here,but the new v6 Ford will use as it’s BASE engine,not to compete (yet) with the higher output 5.4L V-8,same same as the Camaro.
You are right. they could use the ecoboost instead of the 5.4 v8. After all, they dropped the v8 from their $50k Lincolns…
November 30th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Salvador, your price point is correct.
For me, as long as the Mustang has a solid rear axle, it takes it out of consideration regardless of engine. I know why they decided to do this antiquated type of suspension, but it really compromises its sports car handling.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
From “The Truth about Cars”: a Kia Sorrento Horror Story:
Anonymous writes:
I have a 2008 Kia Sorento with the 3.3L, about 11k miles. The other day, I took it to my local mechanic for an oil change. Drove it all over town during the course of the following couple days. Then, last night, as I am about 3/4 mile from home, my low oil pressure light goes on. At that point, I roll down my window to listen to the car and can hear a grinding type noise (valves sticking?) on acceleration. I limp the rest of the way home and turn off the engine. This morning, I call the mechanic and they send the service manager right over. No oil on the dipstick whatsoever. He adds oil to the engine and drives it down the street to the shop. They inspect, and tell me it is a bad o-ring on the cone filter that caused all the oil to leak out over the course of 2 days, and that it is possible that they had not tightened it sufficiently when the changed the oil. They said no other damage had been done, replaced the o-ring, changed the oil and filter and sent me on my way.
So my question is this…what is the possibility that other (long term) damage could have been done? Should I have the vehicle checked out by another mechanic, or even the Kia dealership? Should I not even inform the dealership, as they may use it as a way to deny future warranty claims? The vehicle is no longer making the grinding type noise, and seems to be fine. I may drive it lightly the next few days just to be sure.”
Ideas, anybody? HyundaiSmoke in particular? LOL..
November 30th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Nick,
In fairness, the problem does not seem to be with the Sorrento or even with the Dealer service but with the idiot non-dealer mechanic that screwed up the service. The owner now is in deep excrement, esp. if he wants to keep the nice 10 yr 100k warranty…
I once had the oil changed on my old manual Accord at a Shell station, and they screwed up. I drove half a mile down the road and there was some kind of smoke coming from under the hood. I stopped and took it back to the station and they forgot to screw some lid on or something.. what a bunch of clowns! And I was a fool to not ask for some compensation…I just let them do it right and left. FOrtunately it did not produce any further problems in the car, and I drove it another 5 yrs and an additional 60k miles.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
I can’t think of any car make that hasn’t had one horror story or another about either a bad service call or a lemon, there have been transmission problems in the new Camaro, for example, but not everyone of them is affected. A relative of mine bought the same identical 86 Camry as mine, he did not bother to check the oil every 2 weeks like I did, he blew his engine at 120k miles. mine went on for 240k miles. if you read Edmunds.com customer reviews under used cars you will see people gloating abouta particular car, and you will also read about some unlucky owner that has had a bunch of problems with the same model. Generally speaking,certain models have been exceptional: Tacoma, Prius, Tercel, Civic, Sentras to name a few.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
re: oil changes:if you can’t do it yourself, then watch carefully what they do, I stopped a young punk from starting my car b4 he had put the new oil in, It would have killed the engine and they would have probably not taken responsibility for it.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Almost 60% of the posts have come from “Nick-Jim-Thor”, and now he’s even responding to himself ………. very amazing trio you are!
November 30th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
SInce Mad Max is into conspiracy theories now, I will give me one of my own.
Max Christensen is the same poster as that Paulstweart dude who used to literally post and reply to himself. The two were equally obsessed with that THor character. A non-trivial similarity.
Whenever you have something of value to contribute to the forum, (like when hell freezes over) CHristensen, don’t let us hinder you… LOL.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
“# Pedro Fernandez Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
I can’t think of any car make that hasn’t had one horror story or another about either a bad service call or a lemon, there have been transmission problems in the new Camaro, for example, but not everyone of them is affected.”
I never heard of a dealer botching an oil change. The Sorrento horror story was inflicted by an idiot0careless independent mechanic, such as you find at gas stations.
After my Shell experience, I did all my oil changes on the old Accord at Firestone, every time with such a deep discount that it was not worth doing it myself, and never had a problem.
” A relative of mine bought the same identical 86 Camry as mine, he did not bother to check the oil every 2 weeks like I did, he blew his engine at 120k miles. mine went on for 240k miles.”
You may not believe this, but a friend had a German luxury V8 car with a ton of miles once, whose hood had repeated and inexsusable difficulties opening, and once he drove the car for a Full year without ever opening the hood!!!! Nothing happened, and he drove the car for many more years. This should be read by those who think German cars, the best in the world, are unreliable and the like!
“. Generally speaking,certain models have been exceptional: Tacoma, Prius, Tercel, Civic, Sentras to name a few”
Of these, the most amazingly reliable, despite its complexity, is the PRIUS. TOday I read an article of how it obliterated the new Honda nsight in sales, and no wonder, I have driven it and it is fantastic, as well as its MPG, far, far higher than any other new hybrid on sale now.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Umm, “anonymous” should have pulled over and stopped IMMEDIATELY, not kept on going for 3/4 of a mile. One can imagine the damage that did (or could have) resulted from that decision.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
I get a huge kick reading the posts of my paisan Christensen (or is it a Danish and not Norwegian Christensen?).. and of course the dozens by Paulstweart, the dude was really obsessed with me…I have not posted in weeks here, death in the family and other stuff going on…but I have had dry spells before, in summer 09 I posted only about once a week or so..
November 30th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
The “Nick-Jim-Thor” Show continues ……… it’s amazing that all “three” of you have the same infatuation for German cars and you all “three” seem to misspell the same words on a regular basis, and several times all “three” of you have used the same phrase (ugly whale) when speaking of the Lincoln. Hmmmmm, call me a conspiracy theorist, but you have to admit the facts are in my favor.
And no, I’m not Paul Stewart, though Paul has invited me to Michigan for a beer someday, and hopefully I can take him up on that offer someday.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
“# Tony Gray Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Umm, “anonymous” should have pulled over and stopped IMMEDIATELY, not kept on going for 3/4 of a mile. One can imagine the damage that did (or could have) resulted from that decision.”
Of course, and this was already pointed out in the replies in the website I got it from. But the light comes on not when you are totally oil-less but when oil levels are just low, so maybe it did not totally destroy the engine. I would not be surprised if they fidn metal shavings in the oil next time they look, though.
November 30th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Jim, define “botching” I had a Toyota/scion once forget to zero out the oil change reminder in the computer and failed to reinstall a clip that held a plastic panel under the oil filter. Minor things but still should have been done. Prius reliability is truly amazing considering how complex that car is. GM has their work cut out for them with the Volt.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
“Max Christensen Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
The “Nick-Jim-Thor” Show continues ……… it’s amazing that all “three” of you have the same infatuation for German cars ”
I wonder why, Little Sheer-luck Holmes. And Nick and Jim can speak for themselves, but I do not even like all BMW’s, let alone other german makers. I remember posting how I did not like the rental my delaer courteously gave me one day he was not able to finish the service byu the end of the day, he gave me a current 328Xi all or four wheel drive which drove far inferior than my old 1998 “MAgnificent 7″ 740iL RWD! and the interior of the 3 was cheap too.
So that the record is straight.
BTW, don’t make me laugh Christensen, you are sso effing obsessed with me, that you have not offered ONE intelligent comment in WEEKS, other than spewing conspiracy theories. I would care less if you are Paul Stewart, or if you really are, BTW.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
“# Pedro Fernandez Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Jim, define “botching” ”
I use it in its usualmeaning, when a mechanic screws up an oil change by negligence, like in that Kia example, done by an independent mechanic. Usually the dealer staff are careful, but they of course charge more.
“I had a Toyota/scion (dealer?) once forget to zero out the oil change reminder in the computer and failed to reinstall a clip that held a plastic panel under the oil filter. Minor things but still should have been done.”
Sure.
” Prius reliability is truly amazing considering how complex that car is.”
Yes, and even toyota dealers are amazed by it!
” GM has their work cut out for them with the Volt.”
When that Audi US CEO said that the Volt will fail because only idiots would pay $15,000 more for a corolla sized car with quastionable quality and reliability, the entire Detroit crowd tried to eat him alive. But GM does not care, we th4e taxpayers will pay for the whole VOlt deal, and of course it will never make a dime for anybody.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
“Tony Gray Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
I read on another forum where GM actually put SAAB in the NEW GM vs the old one, making it much more difficult to just let it be liquidated. Not sure if this is true or not, but would be a significant difference between it and Saturn.”
Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, Hummer along with these plants:
GMVM – Wilmington Assembly
Stamping – Indianapolis
GMPT – Flint North
GMPT – Livonia
GMVM – Pontiac Assembly
Stamping – Pontiac North Campus 1
Stamping – Grand Rapids
GMPT – Willow Run
GMPT – Massena
Stamping – Mansfield
GMVM – Moraine Assembly2
GMPT – Parma Complex3
Stamping – Pittsburgh
GMPT – Fredericksburg
GMVM – Shreveport Assembly
Stamping- Shreveport
were not part of the new GM.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Saw a report on that Volt mule being driven by a reporter, very misleading, engine never kicked in because it was a short drive. Reporter did mention that due to lack of any engine sound, other noises, like wind, road and even noises coming from the car itself were more audible and distracting and GM had to do a better job in making the interior quieter than that test mule. It happened to be a Cruze.
November 30th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Jim Sachetti – Are you the same Jim Sachetti who is the editor of the ‘Press Enterprise’, a daily newspaper published in Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania?
November 30th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Max
You hit the nail on the head with this “Jim / Thor / Nick” thing.
Dwight Barnes
November 30th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Thanks Dwight! Thor knew we all got tired of him monopolizing the forum, so he just simply branched out. This guy obviously loves to “hear” himself write ……….
November 30th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
T. Bejma @29.
That’s what I thought but a lot of stuff I am reading now says that SAAB is being sold by General Motors COMPANY, not Motors Liquidation. I went to the ML website and there is no mention of brands for sale, just plants and other facilities.
The plot thinnens.
November 30th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
thor aka cheap,substandard,2nd rate at best Marvel comic book hero. Please,please stay with your Ménage à trois of Jim/thor/Nick. I notice you get it coming and going. Congrats ! Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Shame your still ashamed of your real name still. I had to tune in over 30 comments, over 11 by the idiot Jim Sachetti. Good luck with the Psycho-Therapy on your sexual issues. I’m sure your boyfriends can help you deal with your issues
Max Christensen keep up the good fight.
November 30th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
thor, I’m sorry for the death in your family. Sincerely, PaulStewart.
November 30th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
This is beginning to look like a soap opera blog site, can we please stick to cars and the car industry?
November 30th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Pedro, sounds like a plan I will if they will. I’ll be a Gentlemen if they will. I’ll even cry uncle if they need to hear it 1st.Pedro calling uncle in any a fight is considered giving in, just thought you might like to know. That’s different than calling the President, Uncle. Take care.
November 30th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
So, am the only one that thinks Communist China is really after the Technology and I.P. from Volvo and Saab ?
I bet that this Technology will be spread all over China and will be as common as a No.2 phillips head screw driver at Harbor Freight Tools.
It is just a matter of time before the decades of Volvo and Saab technology show up in the U.S. in a Communist Chinese vehicle at a fraction of the price of a domestic vehicle.
Is the price of the sale of this technology worth the long term destruction of the vehicle market?
Do the major auto manufacturers think that basic low cost transportation will be replaced with their new expensive high tech alternative fuel hybrid/battery electrics ?
China will jump right in to fill the low cost demand with Saab/Volvo technology at “Harbor Freight” prices.
This sale of Technology is so short sighted, that the people making these decisions to sell to Communist China must be blind.
I think we are witnessing the beginning of the end.
November 30th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
John: Having lived i under a communist dictatorship, I fully understand where you’re coming from. China opened up economically cause they realized the communist economy plan just doesn’t work anywhere. So they started this half-ass pseudo capitalist system where the government still controls everything. notice how many of their high tech products incl. cars are third rate at best and by buying these companies like Volvo, they acquire the technology to build a better more desirable product to compete and eventually knock out competition world-wide. And we just let these commies roll over us. First cars and electronics, next aerospace and eventually military. But most here think I’m paranoid.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Pedro,
You are correct.
Have you ever gone into a Harbor Freight store?
It may be denial, or bean counter greed, but one thing is for sure, … this Technology Transfer to Communist China , will bite them in the ass.
You are not paranoid.
Pedro you are a realist.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
You baby Boomers are still trying to hang on to your SAAB and Volvo dreams I see. Give it up, Baby Boomers, VW, Hyundai and Subaru are cranking out better products than these guys. SAAB and Volvo are 2 Red Ink Companies that have been teetring on the brink for the last 15 years. The Economy is just a lion picking out the weak injured wilderbeats in the herd. You guys want to hang on to old dreams, while VW puts out yet, another Near Luxury Small car like the Golf that puts you guys to shame. Hyundai plans to do the same but with 4 cylinders, the same power, and 10+ MPG. Subaru plans on bringing their Justy over, and the Next Gen Suzuki Swift coming to America in Q4 2010 wont be an econo car either.
Or, havent you seen the spyshots of it?
This will force MINI to play some serious ball, which will be great if you buy premium small cars.
Accept change old guys, or sit down.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
If GM and Ford had not purchased the Swedish duo, most likely they would have gone bye- bye, let’s face it, the era of the Swedish car and what it offered is long gone, replaced by others that did it better at a better price. Ironic that GM that was bailing out dying auto makers had to be bailed out themselves by American taxpayers. Now if only VW could get that reliability up, they could really be more of a player in the US.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
I mentioned several times about the technology transfer involving china(read commies)buying Volvo.No good will come of it,and now with GM relinquishing intellectual rights to the commie chinese if they buy saab,this will indeed come back and nail us.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Hey Pedro,
do you think “HyundaiSmoke” has a clue about technology transfer to Communist China ?
Noise.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Given that Suzuki Auto. U.S. is hanging on by a shakier thread than Volvo, and Subaru’s narrow product line makes its independence questionable, perhaps you should quit smoking that good stuff, Hyundai?
November 30th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
The Chinese have shown over and over that they’ll stop at nothing to steal or buy western technology, violate copyrights w/o repercussions, copy it, sell it cheaper due to almost slave labor wages, and thus taking sales from legitimate companies that have spent millions on research. Just look at some of their cars, they’re almost identical to well-known western brands. ps b4 you know it, they’ll be here and they will sell, cause people will respond to their low prices.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
“Jim Sachetti Says:
You are right. they could use the ecoboost instead of the 5.4 v8. After all, they dropped the v8 from their $50k Lincolns…”
And they could call it the Mustang II! Brilliant!
Jim, ever thought it might be you who should wait to post until he has something of value to contribute?
November 30th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
I dont know C-tech, Suzuki made a big turnaround in India, and Europeans are actually beginning to buy their products again. They claim they are Following VW and Hyundai Upmarket. The Kizashi looks like it, the Next SX4 and Swift will look like it. I think Suzuki has got something going for them with this upmarket idea they have. They have been climbing up the reliability charts.
VW is ranked 9th on JD Power to 18th on a couple of other lists. Subaru has supassed SAAB in every way years ago. Hummm, maybe that’s why people in my generation prefer them over SAAB. As I have said before, the target SAAB Audience due to age/heightened Career can afford Tier 1 luxury cars like: BMW, Benz, Lexus, Cadillac. Why would they buy a Tier 3 Near Luxury car like a SAAB? SAAB should have given up on the Baby Boomer market 10 years ago and focused on Gen X Gen Y. The same with Volvo.
Instead Hyundai, VW, Suzuki, Mazda, Subaru will become Tier 3 Luxury for a New Generation, while the old guys are dusting off SAABs and Volvos harkening back to the days when they used to make them.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Things change. If I have my Automotive history correct, Buick used to be a Doctor’s car? Today’s Doctors can afford Maseratis, Porsches, and Ferraris.
Buick has to do something to capture the Gen X Gen Y Buick Customization Culture. That will be Buick’s road to Success, and future continuance. Anything Else Buick tries to do will lead to Doom and Failure; like SAAB.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Subaru enjoys a very loyal customer base here in the US.Although their popularity irregardless of “old technology”,or not seems to lie in the winter states,here in Oregon included.Next year they are supposedly bringing over their diesel lineup.Hopefully they will see a sort of revival.
However,they desperately need to get going with 6 speed manuals and autos just to keep pace.I haven’t read anything yet,but I would not be surprised to see them introduce a direct injected/updated 4 cyl boxer,leaving the turbo as an option (like they do now),unless it’s needed for direct injection to work properly.Just some thoughts… I have always liked subbies.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
G.A. they are already on a revival. Or havent you been looiking at their sales? Subaru is the only besides Hyundai KIA thats been unstoppable.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:06 am
Supreme Court Thumbs down for Ford:
“Ford Motor Co. had its plea to review a rollover-liability case rebuffed by the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday, leaving the automaker to pay the $55 million punitive-damage award.
Ford had requested that the court review a California judgment for Benetta Buell-Wilson and her husband. She was paralyzed below the waist in 2002 when her 1997 Explorer rolled over several times on a San Diego expressway and its roof collapsed. The crash happened when Buell-Wilson swerved to miss debris that fell off a vehicle in front of her.
A jury first awarded the California couple nearly $123 million for personal and economic losses. The jurors said Ford should pay an additional $246 million in punitive damages for “maliciously” making an unsafe product.
A trial judge and an appeals court changed those amounts. Ultimately, Ford was ordered to pay $27.6 million in actual damages and $55 million in punitive damages…. “
December 1st, 2009 at 8:08 am
Hyundai Cries “uncle”, leaves Japan in defeat after 8 years.
“TOKYO — Hyundai Motor Co. may be growing globally despite the recession, but business in Japan is so bad the carmaker has decided to pull out after just eight years in the country.
On Dec. 1 Hyundai will notify its 46 dealers in Japan about its intention to halt sales here, company spokesman Oles Gadacz said today.
“If you’re not a Gucci or a BMW, there are very few who prosper there,” Gadacz said. “Mass-market players have it very tough.”
Hyundai has sold just 15,095 passenger vehicles in Japan since entering the market in 2001. Volkswagen AG, the biggest selling import, sold 61,996 units in 2008 alone….”
I bet John will mention this and the Ford thing in his newscast at noon today…
December 1st, 2009 at 8:11 am
“G.A.Branigan Says:
November 30th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Subaru enjoys a very loyal customer base here in the US.”
Yes, and I do not know if it is the AWD or 4wd they all got, or also the fact that they are one of the very few makers that offer small and midsize WAGONS any more. I hope Honda, TOyota and Nissan and the domestics wise up and cover this market segment!
It sure is not the exterior styling, Subarus are among the ugliest designs, if not THE ugliest of any automaker!
December 1st, 2009 at 8:13 am
“Geely Claims Ford Deal on Volvo Intellectual Rights”
By PATRICIA JIAYI HO and JEFF BENNETT
WSJ Online NOVEMBER 30, 2009, 1:18 P.M. ET
BEIJING—China’s Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co. said Friday it had reached a deal with Ford Motor Co. on intellectual-property rights in its bid for the U.S. company’s Volvo unit. …..
—-> “Through the Volvo purchase, Geely would own the intellectual-property rights to Volvo’s key technologies, including those related to safety and the environment, the Chinese auto maker said. “<—-
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703499404574561910396286466.html
*******************************************
FOCUS ON THIS KEY PHRASE:
"…key technologies, including those related to safety and the environment…"
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SAFETY and EMISSION TECHNOLOGY IS WHAT COMMUNIST CHINA NEEDS TO FLOOD EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES WITH CHEAP VEHICLES TO DESTROY THE MARKET.
Without this technology it is very hard to sell into the largest markets in the world.
Who the hell is making these decisions at FORD ?
December 1st, 2009 at 8:44 am
John,
of course China needs both Safety and Emissions tech, otherwise why would they waste their good money on these terminal $-losers like Volvo and Saab? They are no fools!
But the above is not all they need to sell cars in Europe and the US, they need far more refinement than their current chinese brands have. In a few years, I am sure they can improve significantly if they put their minds to it.
PS China is not “communist” like North Korea or Cuba is. In Business there is considerable freedom. ANd I do not believe all these chinese automakers are all nationalized companies, many are PRIVATE and profitable good capitalist companies!
December 1st, 2009 at 8:48 am
I too am one of the many baby boomers who frequent this site. I’ve seen many GOOD marques go down the drain that at one time were very real automotive powerhouses – Plymouth, Pontiac and Oldsmobile to name a few. I hated to see them go, but change is inevitable and time does indeed march on.
I think the biggest problem in the automotive world is the fact there are simply too many nameplates on the market. Including all the little foreign and domestic startups, I truly wonder how many different brands of cars are actually available on the world market? John, can you help us with this question?
December 1st, 2009 at 9:08 am
Finally something that I agree on with Nick/Jim/Thor! China is not a communist country in the true sense of the word, and yes, their business climate is actually quite free and a good deal of the companies are private.
I know we all hate to think that the United States will most likely one day soon NOT be the largest automobile market in the world. Again, change is inevitable.
I love the United States and all that we stand for, and I am a firm believer that anyone buying a new car should at least look at the domestic brands first. If you can’t find one that satisfies you or that does not fit your needs, fine, go to a foreign make – but at least give the domestics a chance as the big 3 build some truly remarkable vehicles (despite what the automotive press and that rag Consumer Reports might lead you to believe). And I absolutely enjoy the new GM commercials where they are comparing their vehicles to some of the Japanese makes, and then saying “Let the best car win.” They are now finally hitting the marketing concept right square on the head!
But lest I digress any farther, despite my love of the USA and our domestic car companies, there is at least a small part of me that admires the Chinese and their quest to be a powerful force on the world automotive stage. And cuss them all you want, but apparently their business model is working better than ours, at least for the time being. Through a keen business sense on their part and sheer stupidity on the part of the United States and many of our greedy companies, the Chinese hold a majority of our debt and are also accumulating a good number of companies that used to be ours. Do I like it? No. But they are simply doing business better than we are right now, so we need to get over it, maybe even tip our hat to their determination and skill, and move on.
And the fact the Chinese will most likely soon own Saab and Volvo – who cares?? At one time, those two nameplates were quite impressive, but they lost their luster as soon as Ford and GM took them over, so what’s the big deal? At least the cheap little Chinese cars we will soon be seeing on our roads will have some good safety and environmental technology in them, which is something we should all be thankful for.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:19 am
The previous posts were mine, they were not written by a committee including Jim, Thor, or whoever.
One further thing I want to mention re China is that they should be commended for having their car market far more open for all kinds of foreign makers and imports than South Korea and even Japan, both allegedly good Capitalists.
CHina provides GM especially with a ton of sales and profits, 500,000 cars a year, almost 300,000 Buicks, about three times the number of buicks sold in the US, and the Chinese Buicks are actually better made and more luxurious than the US models were until recently.
If they keep their market open, this will be the new “wild West” in automaking around the world.
UNlike China, India may make a lot of cars but the local market absorbs only about one million (Vs the 7-11 million of the CHinese market), and they rely a whole lot on locally made small motorcycles like 125 and 150 cc Hondas made in the Honda Hero factory in India. The $2,000 tata nano may change that, but it will take years for its production to reach full levels.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:20 am
About 8 million largely small motorcycles are sold in India annually, vs only 1 million or so cars.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:32 am
Car sales are due later today. Sales arer expected at a dismal 10.5 or so million cars. compare that to:
“”U.S. sales were 13.2 million in 2008, after averaging 16.8 million this decade through 2007.”
We had 17 million car sales back when the US population was 15,000,000 LESS than it is now, when we barely sell 10 million!
The US will have 400,000,000 million in 30 years. How many vehicles will be sold annually then? I am optimistic and expect 20 million at least, assuming markets will be OK.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:33 am
400 million people, not 400,000,000, of course, above.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:24 am
It doesn’t matter how many millions we have, if the unemployment numbers stay high, people just won’t buy new cars, they’ll keep buying used.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:50 am
Despite some beliefs here,china is,and remains a communist govt period.Because they are opening their markets and allowing some “private” ownership,they are still communists none the less.
They will subvert foreign car technology over to military,that is what they do.I spent too many years fighting against them and their puppets.No good will come of this.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:56 am
# Pedro Fernandez Says:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:24 am
It doesn’t matter how many millions we have, if the unemployment numbers stay high, people just won’t buy new cars, they’ll keep buying used.
I thought it was clear that I was not talking about 2010 oir even 2012!
I was clearly talking about 30 YEARS from now, only then will the pop exceed 400 million.
Pessimists lose in the long run, as the historical record shows, especially re the USA. We survived MUCH worse in the 30s.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:57 am
“G.A.Branigan Says:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:50 am
Despite some beliefs here,china is,and remains a communist govt period.”
It has nothing to do with faith or beliefs. It has to do with the facts. You are woefully unaware of them. In your mind, the China of today is like the China of 1975. NO WAY. Get wise.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Guys, calm down. We can agree that China is a Communist Dictatorship of the Proletariat, however we can also agree that China has a Laissez Faire Capitialist Economy, correct?
Max I agree. As someone in Gen Y I can imagine for our generation companies like: a VW, Hyundai, Subaru, etc… growing into very respected Luxury Marques, just to only be shunned by our kids. I hope these aspring makes learn from the Mistakes of SAAB, Oldsmobile, and Volvo that you cant just stay in the same Luxury Tier and expect people to still buy without radical change to the product over time.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Max says:
“And the fact the Chinese will most likely soon own Saab and Volvo – who cares?? At one time, those two nameplates were quite impressive, but they lost their luster as soon as Ford and GM took them over, so what’s the big deal?”
Volvo and Saab may have lost their “luster” under GM and Ford, but they both survived another decade or so because of GM and Ford. Both Swedish car brands were terminal cases, and GM and Ford saved them, for a while.
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