AD #2938 – Lucid Reveals Base Air Price; CARB Urges Automakers to Admit Cheating; Startup Claims to Slash Lidar Costs
October 15th, 2020 at 11:44am
Listen to “AD #2938 – Lucid Reveals Base Air Price; CARB Urges Automakers to Admit Cheating; Startup Claims to Slash Lidar Costs” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 10:12
0:07 Lucid Reveals Base Price of the Air Sedan
1:09 BMW Awards Points for All Electric Driving
1:55 Daimler to Cut F1 Spending in Half
3:24 New EU Regulation Bans Illuminated Hood Ornaments
4:21 CARB Urges Automakers to Admit Cheating
5:19 Japan Plans Hydrogen Fuel Network
5:56 Startup Claims to Slash Lidar Costs
7:01 New Manufacturing Techniques Improves Acura’s Styling
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
LUCID ANNOUNCES BASE AIR PRICE
The battle between Lucid Motors and Tesla is starting to heat up. Lucid revealed that the base version of its Air sedan will have a starting price of $77,400 but when you include the $7,500 federal tax credit, it drops to just under $70,000. And it didn’t take Elon Musk long to respond. After Lucid’s announcement, Tesla’s CEO tweeted “The gauntlet has been thrown down! The prophecy will be fulfilled. Model S price changes to $69,420 tonight!” That undercuts the price of the Air by about $500. But Tesla still has some breathing room before the base Air sedan hits the market in 2022. Lucid is launching its more expensive models first in 2021. This is an interesting development. Up to now Tesla has pretty much had the EV segment to itself. But with more and more EVs entering the market, we could see more price cuts from Tesla to try and stay ahead of the competition.
BMW AWARDS POINTS FOR ELECTRIC ONLY DRIVING
BMW has a unique way to encourage the use of plug-in hybrid vehicles. It created a points system that owners can then exchange for free charging. Here’s how it works. A point is awarded for every kilometer driven in pure electric mode. Double points are given out when travelling in ‘green zones,’ which are areas that don’t allow vehicles to run on internal combustion. The points are collected automatically via the My BMW App. 1,250 points is the equivalent of a 10 euro credit, 3,000 points equals 25 euro and 5,800 points is 50 euro. The service is only available in Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium, but BMW will roll it out to other markets throughout the remainder of the year.
DAIMLER TO SLASH F1 COSTS
When Ola Kallenius, the CEO of Daimler, announced that the company is going to slash costs including R&D we wondered if Mercedes-Benz would continue its involvement in Formula One. After all, Mercedes could probably save $300 to $400 million a year if dropped out of F1. But Kallenius just gave his full-throated support for their Formula One effort. However, he said they are going to cut their F1 costs in half over the next three years. We wonder if that means Mercedes will only be an engine supplier and not field its own team. Kallenius said Mercedes is also working on a plan to make motor racing emissions-neutral by using synthetic fuel.
NEW REGULATION BANS ILLUMINATED HOOD ORNAMENTS
We know that rules are regulations are in place for a reason but sometimes there’s little stipulations in there that make absolutely no sense and keep us from having things that we think are cool. Like in the U.S., rules and regulations don’t allow for adaptive high beam headlights or true, fully sequential turn signals. And newer lighting rules in the EU have banned the use of illuminated hood ornaments. It’s believed to be part of a wider crackdown on so-called ‘light pollution.’ This particularly impacts Rolls-Royce, which has offered a light up version of its Spirit of Ecstacy for four years now. The feature costs 3,500 pounds or a little over $4,500, but Rolls is now telling owners it’s required to shut them off by law. So, the automaker is offering full refunds, a silver-plated Spirit of Ecstasy as a replacement or another option from its list.
CARB URGES AUTOMAKERS TO REVEAL CHEATING
The California Air Resources Board is urging automakers and engine manufacturers to tell it about any unapproved hardware or software that could impact a vehicle’s emissions. If you’re like us, your first reaction might be ‘Why the – blank – would an automaker do that?’ But here’s our Autoline Insight. Companies that self report will have their fines reduced, which can be a big incentive when fines creep into the hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars range. CARB could also go after harsher penalties by saying, ‘hey, we gave you a chance to turn yourself in’ and failure to report may affect the result of future enforcement actions as well. The California Air Resources Board has already collected more than a billion dollars in fines from automakers and it could soon rake in more. It currently has other emission investigations going and next year it will open a new state-of-the-art testing facility that could find further violations.
JAPAN CREATING HYDROGEN FUEL NETWORK
One the biggest obstacles fuel cell vehicles face is a proper refueling infrastructure. It’s basically non-existent. So to help kickstart that segment, Japan announced plans to develop a hydrogen fuel supply chain by 2030. And at the same time, Toyota and eight other Japanese companies formed a committee called the Japan Hydrogen Association, to promote the creation of a hydrogen supply chain as well as global partnerships in the hydrogen segment. While there’s many skeptics who question the viability of fuel cells, it seems like every week more and more companies are investing in the technology.
STARTUP SLASHES COST OF LIDAR
Elon Musk says autonomous vehicles don’t need lidar. But almost every other automaker in the world that is working on AVs is giong with lidar. And Innoviz, an Israeli lidar startup, says it’s coming out with a new unit that will slash the cost of lidar by 70%. While it did not say what it’s new unit will cost, Innoviz hints it will be under $500. What we found significant is that Innoviz already makes solid state lidar, so that 70% cost reduction comes from a lot of other improvements, and not from switching to solid state. BMW already uses lidar from Innoviz for hands-free driving on the highway, and presumably will use the new unit when it becomes available in the third quarter of next year.
Design and manufacturing teams are often at odds over styling. Wild, dramatic designs look cool but building vehicles like that in high volume is a logistical nightmare. That’s why the production version of a vehicle isn’t as expressive as the concept. But on last week’s Autoline After Hours, Ken Sheridan, the Manufacturing Leader of the Acura TLX, told us about new manufacturing techniques the company is using to make that car more stylish.
Ken Sheridan, Manufacturing Leader, Acura TLX
“So if you look at the styling lines on the hood, it has a first time applied sharp edge technology for us. So, we’re able to take advantage of some of our equipment that we have in house. So we have a high tonnage stamping servo press, that we can start getting into stamping these complex shapes onto that sharp edge hood. Where this is the first time in our factory that we’ve been able to do aluminum fenders with some of those complex shapes. Or if you look at the back of the car, the back of the car has those really deep hips that come out. So this is the deepest drawn SVO that we’ve ever done in high volume manufacturing. So back to your question, when you talk about when you get to that clay model of those first concepts, the kind of stuff that Jason’s (Performance Development Leader, Acura TLX) dreaming about, a lot of times the manufacturing side has to push back and say ‘we can’t do that.’ But in this case, we were actually able to take advantage of some of these weld equipment we have in-house or stamping equipment we have in-house and really collaborate as one team and deliver that concept that Jason and his team kind of dreamed about.”
John McElroy
“Ken a follow up on that. You know Honda has historically avoided deep draws, because it slows your press line down. Instead of running, I don’t know, 18 to 20 strokes a minute, you’re probably running 12 strokes a minute or something like that. What was the thinking behind changing that philosophy, going more for styling, even at the sacrifice of manufacturing efficiency?”
Ken Sheridan, Manufacturing Leader, Acura TLX
“I think we have to do that because in the automotive industry, the way that we’re kind of turning right now, the sedan or the car market, sales continue to be more competitive or shrink and the SUV sales continue to go up. So we have to come up with a car that looks different than the other cars that we have. We really need to get that seven second knock-out or that wow factor when you first see this car. So, in order to do that we really got to go after those deep styling lines and we really got to try to make an impression.”
Be sure to join us for Autoline After Hours this afternoon at 3 pm eastern time. Our guest is Thomas Mally, the Associate Chief Vehicle Engineer, from Nissan’s Technical Center. We’re going to learn how Nissan significantly upgraded the all new Sentra and Rogue. Tom Murphy from Wards will also be on the show, so join John and Gary as we let you learn from some of the top talent in the automotive industry.
That’s a wrap for this show. Thanks for watching.
Thanks to our partner for embedding Autoline Daily on its website: WardsAuto.com
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Comments (39)
October 15th, 2020 at 12:11 pm
Light pollution; I’ve heard it all now.. So illuminated billboards are okay but a low lighted hood ornament is not? I would guess most RR owners will pay attention to that law like most people do with the tinted windows.
October 15th, 2020 at 12:15 pm
The EU’s banning of illuminated hood ornaments is silly, but not as silly as people paying ~$4500 for a plastic hood ornament, to make their Rolls-Royce more like a ’50s Pontiac.
October 15th, 2020 at 12:20 pm
@lambo – I thought the same thing, but then I wondered what happens when you go in for regular service, like an oil change? If you go to the RR dealer, will they be forced to make the change? I’m guessing not too many RR owners take their vehicle to an independent shop, which might not have to make the change.
October 15th, 2020 at 12:25 pm
3 Won’t that rule apply only to cars sold in the EU? The UK isn’t even in the EU any more, and China or the US is probably the biggest RR market (just guessing).
October 15th, 2020 at 12:29 pm
#2: Those lighted up Pontiac hood ornaments were my favorites.
October 15th, 2020 at 12:33 pm
1) The EU has never met a silly regulation it didn’t like.
October 15th, 2020 at 12:34 pm
@Sean; I assume they must not have reciprocity laws like we do. If the car was legal when it was sold they shouldn’t have to change it for a law that was passed after its release. We don’t make pre-1965 car owners install seatbelts. But that’s the US.
October 15th, 2020 at 12:36 pm
7 I didn’t mean reciprocity but grandfathering clauses.
October 15th, 2020 at 12:38 pm
“Light Pollution” has actually been a term thrown around in urban planning circles for a couple of decades now. I recall reading an article ten years ago about light pollution from gas stations and the like. Something about how all the ‘excess light’ thrown out by parking lots and whatnot causing people’s natural nighttime body rhythms to be thrown off, and how there needs to be a stop put to it. Pure nonsense if you ask me.
October 15th, 2020 at 12:38 pm
Japan is missing a big step with hydrogen. Instead of creating refueling infrastructure, they should be working on a way to make hydrogen more efficiently. Lots of companies/people have been working on this problem for years and no major breakthroughs have been found. This is why 95% of all hydrogen is made by burning fossil fuels.
October 15th, 2020 at 12:46 pm
The new Lidar unit is great. A good step in the right direction if Autonomous driving is the goal. Of course Elon Musk is wrong about Lidar. His camera system couldn’t detect a huge white 57 foot long trailer in the path of his car. A fault in his system that TESLA promptly blamed on the vehicle owner no less. Lidar would have detected it regardless of the color or orientation of the trailer or placement of the sensor or who was driving. But sure…Lets say that Lidar is not necessary. Even the US military cast aside camera based systems long ago for Lidar because it is far superior.
The truth is that TESLA can’t afford to upgrade their vehicles to a better system and he has to make his vehicles still seem relevant as technology moves past TESLA. What a clown.
October 15th, 2020 at 12:48 pm
9 As someone who used to do some “star gazing,” I certainly don’t light pollution, but blaming those hood ornaments for contributing is quite absurd.
5 Were the lighted Pontiac ornaments standard during the years they used them, or were they an option?
October 15th, 2020 at 12:53 pm
So let me get this straight:
The CORRUPT IDIOTS, the criminal class called US COngress ( those were the Great Mark Twain’s words, not mine)
is handing out $7,500 per unit tax credits to the buyers of 67% SAUDI owned Lucid (in case you forgot, ALL 9/11 terrorists AND Osama Bin Laden were SAUDIS),
While the 100% AMERICAN, Legendary Tesla Model S, due to the SUCCESS of the company which has sold way over the 200,000 threshold ( more like 1,200,000 and counting), is given $0 tex credit.
THIS is a JUST PERFECT Example of why Donald J Trump got elected Prez in 2016, AND is a perfect example of what he meant that the US under his idiot and/or corrupt predecessors were the SUCKERS OF THE WORLD.
Other examples is allowing every other nation, many with far lower wages than the US (which lower wages are ANOTHER form of subsidy of their industries and another blow to US industry!),
every other nation, rich and poor, had a TON of tariffs and restrictions on US Exports, and we did not even Retaliate, like every OTHER nation does, and when Trump CORRECTLY punished them, he was accused of… protectionism!!!
October 15th, 2020 at 1:28 pm
Larry, Again. Don’t beat around the bush. If you have something to say, just YELL it out!
October 15th, 2020 at 1:43 pm
… also Larry, what do you mean WE when you talk about Americans. I Thought you said you lived in ‘the old country’, where life is better and less expensive.
October 15th, 2020 at 1:48 pm
13 I can hear it now, the Chinese and Germans ranting about those GD Americans investing in their countries, like you rant about the Saudis investing in the U.S.
October 15th, 2020 at 1:50 pm
@13
How is it possible that any “thinking” commentator would not understand that a tariff is a surcharge on the citizens of the purchasing nation?
October 15th, 2020 at 1:55 pm
@13 What a surprise…a supporter of Donald tweet. That clears up a lot of the “intelligent” posts
October 15th, 2020 at 2:32 pm
13 – Of course, the first 200,000 buyers of Tesla vehicles received their tax credits, which helped sell more Teslas, which helped build up Elon’s company. Ditto for GM. Now others are bringing their products to market and its not fair that they enjoy the same benefit that Tesla did?
It doesn’t matter who backs or invests in or owns a company. What matters in this land of free market capitalism is the value of the product to the consumer. Only time will tell if Lucid has produced a viable competitor to Tesla. But, please stop ranting about how unfair it is to poor Tesla. They were fortunate to get the benefit of this incentive before Trump killed it. Some of the new makers coming to market may not get the benefit of it before its gone. (Trump is still working to kill this purchase incentive).
October 15th, 2020 at 2:32 pm
@16: Hysterical Larry lacks even the most basic economic knowledge. Exports are great for a country’s economy. FDI is also great (Foreign Direct Investment): import of capital to the country, creation of jobs, paying taxes (local, state, federal, payroll, personal income tax, etc., creation of indirect jobs (retail stores, hairdresser, physicians). I do not know of any relationship between the 911 perpetrators and the investors of Lucid.
I have written it before: as dumb as a brick.
October 15th, 2020 at 2:33 pm
Why am I picturing in my minds eye, the “old man yells at cloud” Simpsons cartoon?
October 15th, 2020 at 2:36 pm
18. LOL.
October 15th, 2020 at 2:40 pm
20. It reminds me of the people around here who say they shouldn’t have to pay school taxes because they no longer have children in school. They didn’t complain about that when other people were supporting their kids.
October 15th, 2020 at 3:03 pm
19
Larry sees Tesla getting real competition and can not stand it in fear Tesla could fail. My prediction is when more car companies gets into EV’s, the Tesla stock will take a steep dive and will not be as relevant and ultimately will be in serious financial trouble.
October 15th, 2020 at 4:10 pm
24 You sad idiot. The war has been over MANY MANY MONTHS AGO and the AMERICAN COMPANY, TESLA, WON AND DOMINATED THE WORLD IN BEVS. NOBODY ELSE COMES CLOSE, BUT YOU AND THE OTHER SAD MORONS WIL NEVER ADMIT IT OR REALIZE IT. Saudi Owned Lucid is a SAD JOKE just like YOU SAD CLOWNS ARE. And the most unbelievable thing is, I believe must of you are US CItizens, not ISIS THUGS. JUST STUPID.
October 15th, 2020 at 4:12 pm
you all get complimentary membertship in the flat earth society, clowns. Kevin, Joe, Cwolf, the whole sad lot. You are TRULY unbelievably DUMB and UNINFORMED. SOrry John and Shaun, but I call a SPADE a SPADE. I am the exact opposite of a DUMB POLITICIAN.
October 15th, 2020 at 4:33 pm
This string of comments on here today makes me want to go out a buy a Volvo, just on general principles! Maybe even a Polestar!
October 15th, 2020 at 4:37 pm
25 The war is over? LOL with only a 2% market share going to BEVs I wouldn’t hardly say the war is over. Its just getting started, and yes its everyone else that’s a fool.. That’s the definition of Narcissist. But everyone here already knew that. There are people that can help you Larry. Just not here.
October 15th, 2020 at 6:09 pm
Before Larry speaks we have learned it is safe to assume that he is a fool.
After he speaks, it is no longer necessary to assume it!
October 15th, 2020 at 6:24 pm
Larry speaks ill of the Saudis yet he boasts about how great China is and of his teaching in a country who is our adversary. What a patriot!
On the other hand, having Larry teach in China just might be one of USA’s greatest weapons; A bunch of dumb, rude Chinese in the making who will argue with themselves!
October 16th, 2020 at 6:36 am
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/10/facing-emission-fines-ford-becomes-ravenous-for-carbon-credits/
Another day, another great piece of news for whom, Poor little Joe, KevinA and Cwolf? WHo do you poor haters think will make more hundreds of millions of US $ off FOrd’s stupidity and greed??? (Hint: NOT the Crooks at Nikola, nor your latest pet, Osama Bin Ladin (67% ownership) Lucid Motors, which will get $7,500 credit per one of the very few units they will sell (fortunatel for the US Taxpayer, VERY few!)
October 16th, 2020 at 7:23 am
31) Your issue is not with any one of the commenters here. Your issue is with your government representatives. They developed the incentives with the goal to promote electric vehicle adoption irrespective of manufacturer. Not to promote TESLA. If you do not like it, you need to speak to your representatives. Complaining to commenters here will not resolve your concerns with the tax incentive.
October 16th, 2020 at 8:29 am
12, not sure Kit. Might have been standard some years or on high series.
October 16th, 2020 at 8:59 am
12,33 I found on a search https://forums.aaca.org/topic/125370-1950-pontiac-hood-ornament/?tab=comments#comment-570386 that the amber hood ornament was an option. This is a forum response but seems to be believable.
October 16th, 2020 at 9:23 am
33,34 Thanks. I found them intriguing as a kid, as I did with “blue dots” in tail lights.
October 16th, 2020 at 10:19 am
EV’s: Hyundai, Tesla, BMW PHEV etc. have had fire risk issues….how many recalls now? Should we rename EV’s to FEV’s….”Fire Electric Vehicles”?!!! Besides EV’s being high cost, low range, long charge time, and little charge infrastructure now we need on-board fire suppression systems! How many people park in attached garages to their home. No one wants their home to catch fire. What is going on with all these fires and recalls? Remember when airlines would not allow people with certain phones or battery packs to get on the plane? If Engineers can Manufacturers cannot assure safe battery packs then STOP! EV’s have been available in USA for a decade and only have 1.5% market share. They do not add value for consumers and appear to come with a large safety risk. How long will the industry keep pushing EV’s? When will the group think end?
October 16th, 2020 at 10:21 am
35) My dad always liked the blue dot tail lights. The color blue is a better hue for night time. Its shorter wavelength is easier to see at night. Even though hot rodders still use them out of nostalgia, Those blue dots were a popular safety upgrade due to such poor lighting technology at that time. It was hard to see a dimly lit tiny tail light that existed on cars back then.
A few years ago there was a proposal to switch our current red tail lights to blue for this exact reason. That was prior to the wide spread introduction of LED lighting. LED lighting unfortunately won out because of it’s quicker response time to electrical input and the concerns of getting the populace used to a different color stop lamp. A blue LED tail lamp would be perfection though. One can dream I guess.
October 16th, 2020 at 10:34 am
37 Blue LEDs have a really nice color. Yeah, blue LED tail lights with clear lenses would be cool.
October 16th, 2020 at 11:13 am
Some States, I know at least in S.C., any blue lights are reserved for law enforcement. No accent lights are allowed and can be ticketed in the Sandlapper State.