AD #2958 – Rivian Announces Pricing; Porsche Designed a Van?; New Type of Spark Plug Makes Big Claims

November 12th, 2020 at 12:01pm

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Listen to “AD #2958 – Rivian Announces Pricing; Porsche Designed a Van?; New Type of Spark Plug Makes Big Claims” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 9:31

0:07 Nissan Earnings Not As Bad As Expected
0:48 Detroit Automakers Double Down on CDC Protocols
1:28 Rivian Announces Pricing for Truck & SUV
3:21 Small Van Sales Down More Than Overall Market
4:11 Porsche Designed a Van?
5:18 Renault Reveals All-New Kangoo & Express Vans
7:03 Tesla Finds Fix for Screens Going Blank
7:58 New Type of Spark Plug Makes Big Claims
8:48 Ford F-150 Hybrid Rated at 24 MPG

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24 Comments to “AD #2958 – Rivian Announces Pricing; Porsche Designed a Van?; New Type of Spark Plug Makes Big Claims”

  1. Larry D. Says:

    Rivian prices are VERY High, assuming the interiors are no better than those of ICE pickups and SUVs.

    Yet Rivian will be one of the very few BEV Pickup makers who will not go bankrupt.

    WHY? Because its sugardaddy Bezos of Amazon ordered 100,000 VANS from Rivian, and I assume he is letting them make some $ on each of those.

    In other news, that ugly TURKEY from BMW, the BEV crossover with the twin Edsel grille, is touted by clueless journalists, even in Automotive News, as a possible.. Tesla fighter.

    Seriously, clueless ones??? That, and ALL Lucid models too, are two to three times as expensive as Tesla’s MAIN, make or break models, the 3 and the Y. NOBODY can TOUCH Tesla UNLESS they build an AFFORDABLE Model 3 or Y fighter, that is AS GOOD AS THEY ARE. anything else is clueless BS.

  2. Kevin A Says:

    Sean, I like the new small vans, but you didn’t mention whether it is likely to have a Nissan version available in North America. Also, Peugeot makes a similar small van that is more attractive to me than the FIAT vans. Do you think it is likely FCA will offer that?

  3. Kevin A Says:

    Larry, Just another reminder. Your opinions are opinions, no facts. Your opinion of the future is also not a fact.

  4. Todd Says:

    Kevin, I’ve met Larry, his opinions are fact, I read it somewhere.

    Sean! I’ve always told everyone who will listen to me, that minivans are just a clever ploy to slowly effeminate Americans and bring us closer to Communism. I’d considered a minivan when Pontiac showed the RAM-AIR version of the Montana… but that never materialized. If Porsche makes a van, I may have to consider it!


    For reference, 67.5K gets you a platinum edition crew cab F350 1 ton dually 4×4 that would run circles around the Rivian in doing actual truck things.

    Given the level of equipment and size of the Rivian, it is competing with the Ranger XLT which you can get for $30K. You could even spring for the fully loaded Ranger Lariat model for $35K.

    Just another BEV that sells to rich people. The line forms behind TESLA for that segment of buyers.

  6. Lambo2015 Says:

    So what is Tesla charging for the blank screen issue for those that are over 100k miles?

    The Porsche van is an attractive design even if not very practical. I think they should pursue it.

    The F150 getting 24MPG is good but seems that has been a target for automakers for a long time. Many cars from 1990 to 2010 seem to get 24MPG no matter if they had a 4,6 or 8 cylinder engine. So is that the new target for trucks?

  7. veh Says:

    5. I’d be thrilled if my 2019 F-150 2.7 Ecoboost got 24 mpg. True, it’s mostly either driven in the city or towing on the highway, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen better than about 18 mpg.

    That said, it’s a great truck. Will probably get another in a couple of years when the lease is up.

  8. wmb Says:

    While I know full size, and even midsize, truck can run this high cost wise, it is my understanding that they are nearly fully loaded. With the R1T starting at $67K for the basics, what all are you getting at that price, compared to an ICE pick-up? I know BEV’s are a small market and the tech is expensive right now, but if the Big Three see that people are willing to spend this kind of money in big numbers, how might this impact the cost of “regular” trucks? The R1T is in between the size of a midsize truck and a full, but its starting price is on the high end of a nicely equipped full truck, what will this mean for the cost of the EV F-150 and Silverado? They WIIL be full sized and if the Rivian’s ‘tweener’ is pulling in this kind of money, how can one expect GM and Ford to ask for less?! I think Ford promised the electric F-150 to start about $50K, but if that holds true, what all will that get you and how quickly will the price rise, when they know the market will bear $67K for the basics from the competition?

  9. Larry D. Says:

    re 1, I saw the interior of the RIvian pickup and I don’t need to assume anything. It is NO better or more luxurious than that of BASE versions of ICE pickups. In fact it looks quite boring, a sea of grays as usual.

    The high price condemns it to a few private sles only, and NO FLEET SALES.

    But as I said, with that 100,000 van Amazon order, RIvian should survive.

  10. GM Veteran Says:

    I think the Rivian pickup and SUV will do quite well at these price points. And they are in the range that they stated early this year. Many domestic pickups with luxury trims run higher than these prices, so I think they are competitive. Price out a Denali Sierra and see where you end up. There is a reason Rivian is not offering a basic work truck.

  11. Drew Says:

    @7 – My 1997 F-150 SuperCab (there were no crew cab <8500 GVW trucks then) 4×4 4.6L V8 consistently returned 18mpg. My neighbor’s 2018 F-150 CrewCab 4×4 with the 3.5L Ecoboost and Max. Trail package is also getting 18 mpg with an occasionally heavy right foot (gotta have some fun). I think you are possibly having too much fun.:)

  12. GM Veteran Says:

    By the way, for those wondering about actual unit volume and pecking order in the minivan market, here is how they stacked up thru the end of the third quarter versus same time period in 2019.

    Chrysler Pacifica 64,290 vs 70,224
    Dodge Grand Caravan 36,155 vs 99,403 (discontinued model)
    Honda Odyssey 59,691 vs 74,258
    Toyota Sienna 28,781 vs 58,245
    Kia Sedona 10,131 vs 11,576

  13. Cycles Says:

    6- The charge to repair the EMMC chip in the Tesla MCU is $400.

  14. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Kevin A – No word if there will be a Nissan version of these vans, but I would not be surprised. The NV200 is quite old and I’ve not heard of a replacement coming. Also, the Renault Kangoo will be offered as an electric and in their reworked alliance partnership they said Renault would handle electric architectures while Nissan would provide e-powertrains. So, it would make sense that these could also be Nissans. As for Peugeot and FCA, I think it also comes down to electrification. Peugeot offers electric versions of its vans, FCA does not. Rebadging the Peugeots would be an easy way to electrify Ram’s vans and start earning carbon credits. One other thing I’ve considered, Peugeot wants to re-enter the American market, could it do it on the commercial side rather than the passenger side? Would someone be more willing to buy a Peugeot commercial van in the U.S. than a Peugeot sedan or SUV? I don’t know, but I think it’s an interesting thing to think about.

  15. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Kevin A – I did a little more digging. Nissan did get a version of the Kangoo, called the NV250, which replaced the NV200 in Europe. The U.S. did not get this version and still offers the NV200. It looks like the NV250 is based on the old Kangoo and not the all-new one we showed today. But it would make sense that there would also be a Nissan version of this as well. And hopefully, the U.S. would also get that version.

  16. Lambo2015 Says:

    14 Interesting question Sean. When I think about commercial vehicles though, I believe they often get more use than your average van. So would a business owner consider a Van that essentially will not have much of a dealer network? Will parts be readily available or will their van be sitting at the dealership waiting for a part to be shipped over from France. The price would have to be so competitive to even consider over-looking those considerations. So many domestic manufacturers have a parts network that would allow almost any part to be had within a day. For businesses time is money and they cant afford to have vehicles sitting in the shop.

  17. Dave Says:

    1 Tesla has done an excellent job of utilizing the space exploration side of the business in the battery, wiring and software side of their automobiles. Even with that they have yet to turn a profit on the base business and relies on fuel economy credit buying from the other automakers. So while they are doing well in the stock market based upon potential, there is no guarantees that the past performance will continue.

  18. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Lambo – Good question about the dealer network. I just figured they’d use FCA dealers. The current Ram commercial vans are just rebadged Fiats from Europe and I’ve not heard of any parts availability problems. That’s not to say it can’t happen. I remember when the Mercedes Sprinter was first offered in the U.S. and getting brake parts in particular (outside of the dealership) was a nightmare.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The vast majority of pickups sold in the US are “lifestyle” vehicles, and that seems to be the market nearly all of these BEV things are going after. That said, if a commercial operator approaches Ford wanting 2000 long bed, regular cab electric F-150s with batteries sized for 150 mile range, I suspect Ford might build them.

  20. Larry D. Says:

    19 have you seen stats for this or is it just a guess? I would guess that even if this is true, and as it is in cars and suvs, the vast majority of those lifestyle vehicles would be in the 30k-40k range, and not in the $70k (and much more) range Rivians, Fake Hummers, and other BEV pickups are.

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    20 I’ve read that 75% of pickups tow once a year, or less. In most cases, that probably means never. As far as what they haul, or don’t haul, I haven’t seen data.

    Looking at the inventory at a local Chevy dealer, the MSRP of most of the Silverados are over $50K, and only one of the 30 trucks was under $40K.


    21) Why is everyone so quick to compare the Rivian to a full size truck? The dimensions are right there on the Rivian website. It is the same size as the mid-size Jeep Gladiator. The only thing full size about the Rivian is the price.

    When you compare the Rivian to the Gladiator, Tacoma, Ranger, and Colorado….It is grotesquely overpriced. You can put every single option on a Gladiator and price it up to $65k which is still $2000 less than the base price of a Rivian. However, then you will have numerous features that the Rivian doesn’t even offer.

    It is quite simply an overpriced mid-size truck.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 Yep, all BEVs are more expensive than equivalent non-EVs, and will stay that way until batteries get much cheaper.

  24. Lambo2015 Says:

    23 That’s the problem right there Kit. Manufacturers seem to keep saying that price will come down as economies of scale go up. However the only manufacturer of high volume EVs is Tesla. What will batteries have to come down to until EVs are actually on par with ICE prices. The batteries use rare earth metals and don’t really show any sign of dropping to the level needed to make them competitive. Yet some manufacturers are already talking like their entire lineup will be BEVs in the next 4 years. So as consumers are we just going to be forced into a 60K vehicle? Are we going to mandate and regulate the new car business right into the ground? A cheaper battery better come soon or we will soon see new car sales go right down the drain.