AD #2960 – Mazda3 Turbo Impressions; Nissan May Sell Mitsubishi Stake; Ford Considers Making Its Own Battery Cells

November 16th, 2020 at 12:13pm

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Listen to “AD #2960 – Mazda3 Turbo Impressions; Nissan May Sell Mitsubishi Stake; Ford Considers Making Its Own Battery Cells” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 9:33

0:07 Nissan Considers Selling Mitsubishi Stake
0:30 Tesla No Longer Selling $35,000 Model 3
1:09 Hyundai Looks to Collaborate with Startups
1:41 Porsche Creates Flexible Manufacturing Joint Venture
3:11 Toyota Introduces New Mirai
3:58 Rolls-Royce Launches New App for Customers
4:48 Audi Unveils New SQ2
6:11 Ford Considers Making Its Own Battery Cells
6:51 F-150 Equipped with New Max Recline Seats
7:30 Mazda3 Turbo Impressions

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52 Comments to “AD #2960 – Mazda3 Turbo Impressions; Nissan May Sell Mitsubishi Stake; Ford Considers Making Its Own Battery Cells”

  1. Larry D. Says:

    So… in your book, Mazda, LAME Mazda, of the 1.6-1.7% market share despite its many models. compared to 4% for SUbaru, 9% for Honda and 14% for Toyota, is the.. champ of this utterly irregular year, because it did not even stay flat, but fell 0.7%? DOn’t rush to put all your life’s savings into Mazda shares.

  2. Larry D. Says:

    and as for the reasons you give why this turkey will not sell, on top of the three you give, how about… $25,000 and in your test model $35,000 for a CIvic-sized car that is not even a Civic? So do the regulars here think that even the lowe limit, a bare-bones $25k piece of junk is a good bargain? Then what were the $10.5k and $11.0k, respectively, I paid for my 2007 and 2008 Magnificent, option and luxury-filled, IMMORTAL E class DIESELS? WHich I have owned since 2016 and 2017 respectively and neither had the SMALLEST defect or problem?

    Everybody together now, with feeling: “They were SCREAMING Bargains!”

  3. bradley cross Says:

    Since Nissan was forced to by Mitsu by the Japanese government it makes sense it now wants out that the dust has settled. Would the govt let them sell it to a Chinese company?

    Perhaps Tesla like to make money and stop dealing with limits and restriction in their software tree.

    I drive a hatchback now and love it but yes the looks of the Mazda3 are different.

  4. Lambo2015 Says:

    Magna is a huge automotive supplier that produces and even assembles parts for many manufacturers. One quick way to lose a lot of that business is to become a competitor to the automotive manufacturers. This is why back in 1998 Magna passed on buying Chrysler which they considered. It was not worth losing all the other business they already have with other manufacturers.
    So as they continue to expand into running manufacturing plants for the other manufacturers, I don’t believe Don Walker will state that Magna wants to become a automotive manufacturer.

  5. ChuckGrenci Says:

    While the Toyota Mirai isn’t a mainstream vehicle, it sure beats the looks of the current Camry; maybe Mirai should be the new direction for Toyota’s styling. It is clean and well proportioned as opposed the the cluttered mishmash the Camry provides (as also, some of the other Toyota vehicles).

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    At ~$35K, that Mazda is too close to the price of the Golf R and Civic Type R. The Mazda is 4wd while the Civic is FWD, but from everything I’ve read, the ~300 hp Civic performs very well, even putting all of that power through the front wheels.

    The Golf R is pretty much the global leader of the “premium performance hot hatch” segment, and sells for about $40K.

  7. Lambo2015 Says:

    Sean; My thoughts on why Tesla stopped selling the 35k model 3. Basically why not? There isn’t any competition for a vehicle of that size and range at that price point. Also to avoid anymore fines with the SEC he delivered on what he told investors he would do. Might as well put the price up higher where they are still setting the bar for all other EVs yet pull in more money.

  8. Lambo2015 Says:

    Did anyone else think the Rolls Royce looks a lot like a Chrysler 300? Even the interior looks very similar in layout. No doubt the materials and quality are night and day but you cant deny the similarities.
    If it wasn’t for the grille and emblems they could easily be confused.

  9. cwolf Says:

    I bought a Mazda 3 sedan about 10 years ago. I used it as my go-to-work car for a short time until my son started collage. I really had fun with it and it was perfect for my boy. I really liked the simple controls, handling and good mileage. We both drove the faster Model 3, but much to his disappointment, mom and dad said no way Jose! Mazda’s are a good car for the money.

  10. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 The current Camry looks great. No, I’m not serious, but my 2018 LE hybrid certainly works well. Yeah, they should use some styling cues from the Mirai when doing the next Camry. While about the same size as a Camry, the current Mirai is less roomy than the Camry. I suspect the new one will be too, maybe because of space used for the fuel cell, batteries, etc.

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    6 A friend had a Mazdaspeed 3, I think about 2010 model year. It was a fun car, reminding me of my 1991 Dodge Spirit R/T in the way the powertrain worked, with a kind of peaky, but strong turbo 4, with manual transmission.

  12. Bob Wilson Says:

    At battery day, Elon said there may be a $25k Tesla coming. Per the ‘Osborn Effect’, a $35k Model 3 could look pretty lame … once the $25k Tesla comes out.

  13. Kevin A Says:

    Sean, There has been much discussion in the past about how Subaru SUV’s are really just jacked up cars. Are there any suppliers that make aftermarket kits like that for any other cars? Since most car based SUV’s seem to be $10K more than the car they are based on, there seems plenty of price room for the aftermarket.

  14. cozy200 Says:

    Hello Sean, Parked in my garage is a 2020 Mazd3 hb in poly mtl grey. I got the red interior. stunning. I have had a 99 Miata 06 Miata and this thing just sticks to the road. Driving it is great fun and I like a small size car. By the way,the WCA gave this car best design of 2020. You do not need to have sales of millions of cars per year to make a fun car to drive with great fit and finish.

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    13 What the world needs is lowering kits for CUVs. That would make them more like a real station wagon. Yeah, there wouldn’t be much market. Years ago, I tried to find lowering kits for my first generation Dodge Caravan, but none were available. It turned out that there were lowering kits for GM “M” vans (Astro/Safari).

  16. Victor West Says:

    I have a friend who in his close circle of friends have had 3 Subarus in the 80 to 90K range blow head gaskets. Engine removal is required for repair. Costs can run $3 – $5K.

  17. Scott-in-Cleveland Says:

    RE: Mirai… When is Toyota going to move on from the ‘mustache’ front end styling?

  18. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    7) That is what I was thinking as well. Their buyers are price and quality insensitive so why bother with making a cost leader.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    7,18 I thought they quit selling the $35K Model 3 years ago. At least it hasn’t been shown on the Tesla web site.

  20. XA351GT Says:

    Chuck @ #5.I feel the exact opposite about the Camry. As I feel it finally IS actually styled instead of being automotive vanilla. For decades the Camry was the most bland m boring styled car on the market. The only saving grace was it’s reliability . It is now actually a car I’d consider buying. Different strokes I suppose.

  21. Roger T Says:

    #7 – I agree, reason is no decent competition. I suppose I would do this, too. I think when the Mach-E comes out, Model Y may come down in price, but no one is investing in an appealing sedan.

  22. Lambo2015 Says:

    16 I was surfing through You Tube over the weekend and as often with that site fell down a rabbit hole in the car and engine category. I saw a few video titles on why Subaru boxer engines don’t last. Sadly I did not watch them as I don’t have a Subaru and wasn’t interested and didn’t know they have a durability problem with their engines. So found it funny you posted that today. Maybe now I need to go back and watch the videos.. I was somewhat curious only because my Honda Motorcycle has a boxer engine.

  23. Roger T Says:

    Mazda – I agree Sean completely. Mazda is doing a terrific job all around, their products look great, and (at least initial) quality is superb. At least in my area Mazda dealers are incredibly attentive to detail, polished as in a luxury brand. Subarus and Toyotas look primitive in comparison, and Nissan dealers… Yuck.

  24. cozy200 Says:

    Kit, I installed a Eibach lower kit on my 17 CX5 got the good stance and handling inprove quit a bit. Check out TireRack.com

  25. ChuckGrenci Says:

    20, XA, comment noted; certainly styling is subjective. And Toyota certainly sells a bunch of vehicles, just too frenetic for me.

  26. JWH Says:

    Mazda 3 hatchback – Being a fan of hatchbacks & wagons (still have & still like our 2004 Volvo V70R), I like the new Mazda 3 Turbo & would consider purchasing one if in the market for an additional vehicle. We had a 2008 Mazda 3 hatchback with the 2.3L NA that rolled up about 163,000 miles with minimal issues. While I realize U.S. consumers have an issue with wagons & hatchbacks they remain at the top of my list when looking for a daily driver.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    24 They now seem to have only lift kits, and performance shocks, not lowering kits. I’m not currently in the market anyway, but it was interesting to see what’s available.

  28. Larry D. Says:

    12 Remember what year was it when Musk said the Model 3 will start at $35k? I estimate around 2015.

    IN previous shows comments, I remember the Tesla haters repeatedly accuse Musk of not delivering on the $35k Model 3.

    Of course, I did not expect any better from the econ illiterates, who cannot do a simple conversion, what are $35k in 2015 corresponding to in 2020, with roughly 3% annual inflation, and compounded as well?

    If they could do the third grade math, they would find that $35k in 2015 is more than $40k in 2020.

  29. merv Says:

    not sure why hatchbacks don’t sell well in N.A. I have had plenty over the years and still have one as a daily driver. That Mazda 3 is very nice.

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    20,25 etc. After having my Camry almost 3 years, I have certainly gotten used to the styling, which I don’t mind. It still seems a little “busy,” though. Last summer, I replaced the OEM steel wheels with some aftermarket wheels which I like, to “dress it up” a little.

    https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/results.jsp?&autoMake=Toyota&autoModel=Camry+Hybrid&autoYear=2018&autoModClar=LE

    I got 16 inch and the same size tires as came on the car, to preserve the gas mileage, ride, and less road noise compared to bigger wheels. At one time, 13 inch wheels were used on cars the size of the current Camry, but with huge wheels now being the rage, the 16s look kind of small on my car.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 I’ve had a number of hatchbacks and wagons. Unfortunately, wagons are now barely available in the US. A Camry hybrid wagon would be the ideal primary car for me. The sedan works most of the time, and during the summer, I have my van when I want to carry my toys (R/C airplanes)

  32. Drew Says:

    For the “econ illiterate” emeritus, U.S. inflation has not been 3% for many years. Inflation rates have been 0.7% in 2015, 2.1% in 2016 and 2017, 1.9% in 2018, 2.3% in 2019, and forecasted 1.2% in 2020. Only once in the last 10 years has inflation hit 3% (2011).

    That $35k for a Tesla in 2015 would be inflation adjusted to about $38k today… not more than $40k. It’s just real math.

    And if health care and education were removed from the equation, inflation would be much lower.

  33. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7toeUaKDQEo

    After 2 mins of BS, a young dude from CA with a weird accent interviews our Sandy Munro on the Hummer, the Rivian, the Cybertruck etc.

    Munro thought the ICE age would end by 2030, but in this interview he thinks it may end sooner.

  34. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGr-I_hDSjA

    From the Hummer’s 36″ rims to this 65 MINI’s 10″ (!!!). Jay Leno gets to drive it.

  35. Brett Cammack Says:

    #15
    I’d love to drop Old Red, the 2006 Outlander about 2-2.5 inches, but Eibach quit making their lowering kit long ago and the only other avenue is a $1,200 coilover kit for all four corners.

    Considering the 2022 Outlander is supposed to be sharing the same platform as the Nissan Rogue, I will be watching how this all plays out over time. While the existing platform is well-sorted and provides satisfactory results, it is getting old. Designed in 1999 by Chrysler and Mitsubishi, it lives on in both the Mitsubishi Outlander family and the Dodge Journey.

  36. Kit Gerhart Says:

    #34 The Hummer’s “36 inch rims” have tires with an outside diameter of 36 inches. The rims are probably 20-22, or something like that.

    The video is great. There were a lot of those Minis on the road when I was in Scotland in the navy in 1970-71. A friend had an 875 similar to the one in the video which I drove some. It seemed almost as quick as my 1600cc VW, at least at lower speed.

    #35 I lowered my van a little, by switching from 75 series tires to 65 series. The speedometer is driven by a gear from one of the axle outputs, and I was able to get a gear the right size to keep the speedometer accurate with the smaller rolling radius.

  37. WineGeek Says:

    Hey Sean I think that that new SQ2 from Audi looks like a small Subaru Outback. As far as the Mirai looks pretty good compared to the old one. The fuel cell to me makes the most sense long term for automobile propulsion no pollution only emits water. Now if we could only get enough fueling infrastructure in place. What we need is a low cost hydrogen generator that could be installed at all gas stations we could probably sell…

  38. Joe Says:

    So Ford is considering making it’s own battery cell. Isn’t that a bit too late to jump on the band wagon unless they get a partner that’s been in the game for a long time.

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I guess I don’t understand this rush of car companies to make battery cells. For decades, they have been moving away from vertical integration, as with GM and Ford spinning off parts divisions. None of the car companies know how to make batteries, and would need to work with Sanyo, LG Chem or someone to get started. Isn’t materials access the likely problem with increased demand for batteries, and won’t actual battery companies build battery factories, if there is demand?

  40. Bob Wilson Says:

    TSLA is joining the S&P 500 (see web link.) The short sellers are doomed.

  41. Larry D. Says:

    36 I found the old MINI video way too long so I did not see more than half of it, FFWding the boring parts. The MUnro interview was more interesting. I was joking about the 36″ rims, but if the tires are 36″ it’s a coincidence.

  42. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/11/quebec-banning-gasoline-dependent-passenger-vehicles-in-2035/

    To reinforce Munro’s belief that the ICE age will end sooner than 2030, this article. Initially I saw 2035 and said ‘big deal’, assuming the ban was for Quebec CITY only, but reading it, it is the ENTIRE HUGE PROVINCE of Quebec, with its vast sparcely populated lands. So it IS a big deal and one more reason Tesla shares rose exponentially this year.

  43. Larry D. Says:

    https://teslaphilippines.com/elon-musk-fortune-jumps-15-billion-on-teslas-sp-500-inclusion/?fbclid=IwAR0AvBvcpCArXZTaqDnKOUbmCkHgH2VPvJE22kc2vbMQKaUmerLPEvCaQGw

    Musk haters will probably declare two weeks of official mourning..

    PS In case you did not read the title carefully. It does NOT say that Musk is worth $15 billion, but that his fortune INCREASED by $15 billion JUST BECAUSE Tesla was included in the S&P 500 Index.

  44. Sean Wagner Says:

    38 & 39 / Joe & Kit / I’ve predicted for a while that access to sufficient cells would become a prime concern.

    That’s precisely why Volkswagen AG first partnered and recently invested a substantial sum in Sweden’s Northvolt (founded by two ex-Tesla guys). They’re building a Gigafactory in Germany.

    It doesn’t preclude buying from established Asian suppliers, but puts car manufacturers on a more equal footing in a sellers’ market.

    And it’s worth repeating that Tesla is already focussed on the last hurdle – actually building enough cells asap to make EVs ubiquitous (as cost parity in the very near future is all but certain). It’s a gigantic challenge nooone else even dares talk about.

  45. Sean Wagner Says:

    Incidentally, I think the advanced research on battery chemistries is quite available in the West. Tesla leveraged that very early by partnering with Jeff Dahn (look him up).

    Nevertheless, a couple of years ago CATL (from China) was already employing 300 PhD level scientists and now has an entire research city dedicated to the task of further improving cell chemistry.

    Very large scale manufacturing is another hurdle, and it’s no coincidence Tesla snapped up two German automation engineering & services companies and is basing their European factory there.

    There are over 420’000 [!] electric buses zipping around China already…

  46. Sean Wagner Says:

    Just one more thing… in the US, under-investing – or far worse, extracting capital – or terminally bad, saddling corporations with outsize debts – has become too common.

    It’s not possible to compete that way on the gigantic (and greatly rewarding) global market.

  47. Kit Gerhart Says:

    If CA, Quebec province, and other places around the world stick with their plans to ban sales of new ICE vehicles in 15 years, the value of used cars will increase substantially. There will still be a lot of people who will want to be able to drive 400-500 miles with a 5 minute stop, rather than 200 miles per 40 minute stop.

  48. Lambo2015 Says:

    I think expecting the ICE to die before 2030 is a bit aggressive. There are still some huge obstacles for EVs to overcome. No doubt a ton of cash is being spent on battery R&D but without a major breakthrough we are still facing very heavy large batteries with slow recharging times.
    Lots of things look good in theory but when it comes time to actually put them in motion reality sets in. Id say we should ban all coal fired electrical plants before we ban all ICE’s. I mean if its clean air your after than pushing EVs onto the public while they are charged from burning coal seems a bit counterproductive.

  49. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/11/2021-jeep-wrangler-rubicon-392-yes-it-has-a-hemi/

    When do 17″ rims look tiny?

    When the tires are 33″

  50. Larry D. Says:

    49 In addition, while the thing looks good from the outside, (except for the tiny-looking dark wheels) sure better than that whale Hummer BEV or the Bronco, the truly joyless interior is a deal killer, and I could care less if instead of the 470 HP Hemi they put in the 700-800 HP ones from the Hellcat.

  51. cwolf Says:

    Sean, I find your comments interesting and thought provoking.
    I think it is frightening in believing China’s push for dominance in EV and cell developement is not for the common good but for power motives. Tesla, one the other hand, is purchasing related businesses and talents in an attempt to monopolize the industry while it is still in its infancy.
    This leaves startups no alternative to follow suit, forcing them to get caught in these leaders vacuum and to over extend themselves.
    There will be a point in time when the supply of battery cells exceeds demand. Then every manufacturer will be looking for governments to bail them out at taxpayer expence. They were caught in that vacuum of being over ambitious and growing too fast, just like GM.
    The only winner will be China because they control their markets.

  52. Kit Gerhart Says:

    An area where China really seems to be setting themselves up for dominance, is in “latching on” to supply sources of materials for batteries and motors in unstable countries in Africa.

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