AD #2969 – Mustang Mach-E Performance Edition; Hindenburg Says Kandi Mislead Investors; All-New Genesis G80 Review
December 1st, 2020 at 11:40am
Listen to “AD #2969 – Mustang Mach-E Performance Edition; Hindenburg Says Kandi Mislead Investors; All-New Genesis G80 Review” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 10:45
0:38 Lucid on Track for Spring Production
1:19 Mustang Mach-E Gets Performance Edition
2:07 Hindenburg Says Kandi Mislead Investors Too
3:35 Ford Urges Automakers to Back California’s Standards
4:27 Will Automakers Buy Into More Voluntary Safety Agreements?
6:22 Webasto Gives Corvette Its 1st Retractable Hardtop
7:43 All-New Genesis G80 Review
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
LUCID ON PACE FOR SPRING PRODUCTION
EV startup Lucid Motors says it’s on track to start production in spring of next year. The first phase of construction is done at its site in Arizona and the company is now commissioning and then will be testing the equipment needed to make its Air sedan. The factory, which first broke ground about a year ago, is currently a shade under a million square feet and will have an initial capacity to build up to 30,000 vehicles a year. In 2023 production of Lucid’s first SUV is scheduled to start. By 2028, it expects the facility to be over 5 million square feet and have the ability to produce 400,000 units a year.
MUSTANG MACH-E GETS NEW PERFORMANCE EDITION
The Mustang Mach-E is feeling like any other Mustang. It’s barely been on the market and it’s already getting a special edition model. The Mach-E GT Performance Edition is able to draw more power from its battery pack and has a target 0-60 time of 3.5 seconds. With 480 horsepower and 634 lb-ft of torque sticking to the EPA estimated range of 235 miles might prove difficult. Other enhancements include 19 inch Brembo front brakes, 20 inch wheels with summer tires, MagneRide dampers, sculpted front seats and an aluminum bezel around the instrument panel. The Performance Edition will be available late next summer.
HINDENBURG SAYS KANDI MISLEAD INVESTORS TOO
Uh-oh, Hindenburg is pointing its finger at another company. The investment firm that specializes in shorting the stock of startups took down Nikola earlier this year when it documented how the founder Trevor Milton had lied and exaggerated about his company’s capabilities. Yesterday Hindenburg went after Kandi, the Chinese startup that wants to sell the lowest cost EVs in the American market. Hindenburg documented how Kandi falsified its sales and revenue to dupe investors. And that was enough to eliminate a quarter of the company’s value in just a matter of hours. In fact, that triggered a sell off of other Chinese EV companies including BYD, Nio, XPeng and Li Auto. So, it feels like we need to say, startups beware! You better tell the truth or Hindenburg will hunt you down.
FORD CALLS ON MORE AUTOMAKERS TO BACK CALI’S EMISSION STANDARDS
Last week, General Motors announced it’s no longer backing the Trump Administration’s legal battle with the state of California to set its own emission and fuel economy standards. And now Reuters reports that Ford sent a letter to other automakers urging them to adopt California’s standards. The letter was sent to members of the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, an industry group that is meeting today to discuss the issue. Last year, Ford, Honda, Volkswagen and BMW reached a deal with California to voluntarily reduce vehicle emissions. A few months later, GM, Toyota, FCA and other automakers backed the Trump Administration’s battle with California. However, automakers just want one national standard and now that Joe Biden is president-elect, automakers will likely get behind California’s rules.
WILL AUTOMAKERS BUY INTO MORE VOLUNTARY SAFETY AGREEMENTS?
Four years ago, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety along with the Department of Transportation, got all automakers that sell vehicles in the U.S., to voluntarily agree to equip automatic emergency braking in their vehicles by 2022. Usually, a mandate like this is regulated. But some automakers have already met the deadline and others are close behind. So could we see more voluntary agreements for other safety technologies moving forward? On Autoline This Week, David Harkey, the President of the IIHS had this to say.
“So, another technology that is being worked on in paramount is a big issue and has been for decades. We still have almost 30% of the fatalities in the U.S. involve alcohol impairment. And so, we’ve been working on the Driver Alcohol Detection System for Safety, the DADSS program, for a long time now and it’s about to reach a point where it’s ready for primetime production. And so one of the real questions there is, whether the automakers will pick that up and put it in all vehicles or select vehicles? How will that be implemented? That’s an example where I think it’s going to take regulation in order to get automakers to adopt that particular technology and put it in all vehicles. I don’t think you will make that work with a voluntary agreement. Something like headlight technology on the other hand, I do think we can potentially use a voluntary agreement to do something similar we did with AEB and get automakers to advance their headlight technologies. So, I think it’s going to be a mix of those two things moving forward.”
WEBASTO GIVES CORVETTE ITS 1ST RETRACTABLE HARDTOP
We love highlighting what suppliers are developing because they can add so much value to a vehicle. Here’s another example. For the first time the Corvette will be available with a retractable hardtop, which was designed by Webasto and is assembled in Michigan. The two-part top features 6 electric motors, which is said to create a more compact package compared to a hydraulic system. Four of the motors have integrated controllers, eliminating the need for a central control unit. It’s able to open and close in 16 seconds at speeds up to 30 MPH or 48 km/h. Because the roof panels fold on top of the engine trunk space is not affected even when open, but also requires the small back window to operate independently of the top, so it can be used as a wind deflector. The roof system weighs about 140 pounds or 64 kilograms.
GENESIS GOES AFTER VALUE & STYLING WITH ALL-NEW G80
Genesis, the luxury brand from Hyundai, kind of botched its launch into the market a couple of years ago. But now it’s trying to make up for lost time. We just had the all new G80 come through the Autoline Garage and it’s pretty clear that Genesis has a two-pronged strategy to elbow its way into the luxury segment: great value for the money and head turning styling. Let’s look at prices first. The base, rear-drive G80 starts at $48,700. That’s almost five grand cheaper than a Mercedes E-class, BMW 5-series or Lexus GS. But the one we drove, with the Prestige trim line, had all-wheel-drive and a 3.5 liter turbo, came in at $69,000.
Now to the styling. The G80 almost looks like it could carry a Bentley badge, which should come as no surprise. Sangyup Lee, the head of design at Genesis, previously worked at Bentley. So he knows what kinds of details make a car stand out. The G80 has sweeping lines that take your eye from the bold grille and move them all the way to the back of the car. Note how the headlamp graphic is picked up again behind the front wheel wells and yet again at the taillamps. Study this carefully because every Genesis is going to use this look.
Inside, the G80 is tastefully appointed and quietly comfortable. But the instrument cluster behind the steering wheel looks rather bland, and there’s a rotating ring on the center console to operate the navigation, radio and HVAC controls that takes some time to figure out.
Under the hood you get a choice of a 300 horsepower 2.5 liter turbo, or a 3.5 liter turbo V6 with 375 horses.
Overall this is a sophisticated car that deserves a test drive if you’re in the market for a luxury sedan. But one thing’s for sure. Genesis needs to get the word out. In October sales of the G80 in the US market fell 86%. And we think this is a car that deserves far better than that.
Henrik Fisker tried to launch a car company a decade ago but it crashed and burned. But rather than give up and slink away, he’s back. And this time he’s going all electric. But that’s not nearly as interesting as how he plans to develop and build his new cars. What’s that all about? Well join us this Thursday for Autoline After Hours when Henrik will be our guest.
But that’s it for today, thanks for watching and please join us again tomorrow.
Thanks to our partner for embedding Autoline Daily on its website: WardsAuto.com
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Comments (72)
December 1st, 2020 at 12:10 pm
Too soon, Ford. Trump will be here another 4 years. (don’t flame me – time will tell)
December 1st, 2020 at 12:12 pm
I’m getting this uneasy feeling that some things are happening behind the scenes that justifies this whole change to electrification.
Typically when a new technology is growing at the rate we see manufacturers preparing for, its because there is this huge demand and customers beating down the door to get their hands on a product. Mach-E hasn’t even built a saleable car yet and they’re already planning a special edition.
Ford also urging other manufacturers to adopt California standards for emissions. That would certainly help push this push towards electrics.
I really hope we are not going to be mandated/regulated into buying EVs. Customer demand should drive this change and I for one don’t believe the demand is there.
December 1st, 2020 at 12:19 pm
Great show today, Shawn
“So, it feels like we need to say, startups beware! You better tell the truth or Hindenburg will hunt you down.”
Good advice, and they should thank you for it, BUT was this Hindenburg’s job to out those crooks, or should it have been the Automotive and Business Journalists who should have investigated them and asked the critical questions??
WHere was the Wall Street Journal, Investors Business Daily and CNBC (and that Fox business channel too)????
Where were the 100s of journalists of Automotive News and Ward’s????
They were asleep at the wheel.
Hindenburg will make BILLIONS off the crooks at Nikola and Candi and all the rest of them cheats, and I am very happy for them, most deserved!
Isn’t capitalism wonderful?
December 1st, 2020 at 12:26 pm
Will automakers buy into a technology of nanny state features for their cars that will likely be cheated/bypassed as quickly as the sale of said vehicle? I’m not in support of drunk driving but this is a feature I doubt few consumers would want let alone have government make a mandatory feature.
Can this system tell if you are impaired or just had a single beer? Far as I know most states still allow a .07% before being considered impaired.
Is it also going to detect if your high since many states legalized weed now? How about prescription drugs and what if your just sleepy? Where does it end?
December 1st, 2020 at 12:26 pm
I am assuming LUCID is planning to go downmarket very quickly. 400,000 units per year of $75K SUVs is a bit optimistic. 30,000 per year of a $75K SUV from a unknown startup is Sporty.
December 1st, 2020 at 12:27 pm
If California is leader then I would turn and head the other way as that place has gone off a ledge and there is no way back other than to watch sane people continue to leave
December 1st, 2020 at 12:29 pm
Genesis, the sick division of Hyundai
“…That’s almost five grand cheaper than a Mercedes E-class, BMW 5-series or Lexus GS. But the one we drove, with the Prestige trim line, had all-wheel-drive and a 3.5 liter turbo, came in at $69,000…”
$5k in this segment is NOTHING. Remember back in 1989, when the Lexus LS400 had a base price of $35,000 and was MUCH bigger and more powerful than the E class, which, in the V8 version, cost almost twice as much? And some compare it to the S class (although it was much smaller than the S class)?
And as for American car buyers spending $69,000 and more (if they choose still more options) for this underwhelming vehicle, good luck with that!
“But one thing’s for sure. Genesis needs to get the word out. In October sales of the G80 in the US market fell 86%. And we think this is a car that deserves far better than that. ”
Seriously, Shawn, do you believe the Genesis has not been advertised to the hilt, costing Hyundai probably $5,000-$10,000 for each of the pitifully low number of units sold?
Haven’t all of you auto journalists given the Genesis models 100s of awards (remember the G70 ’3 series fighter’? Talk about fighting the last war, when the Model 3 has been eating the 3 series’s lunch AND dinner, and now everybody tries to develop “Model 3 fighters”?
I think the dog is fully aware of this dogfood, and still does not want to buy it, much less eat it. THere must be OTHER reasons for this DISASTROUS performance, which is in fact Hyundai-Kia’s 12th or 15th attempt in peddling a so-called “luxury’ car in the US market.
December 1st, 2020 at 12:30 pm
2. Don’t worry. Battery technology still has a long way to go, so cost and depreciation will be very high on current BEV’s. The number and cost of battery factories is so high that no one can built what would be needed for complete change over to BEV’s in 15 years. Then we come to the electrical grid. The thought that most people will charge at night will have to change as very little renewable energy is generated at night and grid cannot support everyone charging during the day.
December 1st, 2020 at 12:33 pm
How much cost will DADSS add to a vehicle? Will the insurance companies that fund David Harkey provide a reduced premium for vehicles equipped with DADSS? Both of our daily vehicles are equipped with AEB, but my insurance premium doesn’t care. Fundamentally, IIHS does not support its mouth with its money.
So, why should I pay more for it? Will DADSS be seamless (no delay on starting a vehicle on a cold day; no false positives such as detecting the alcohol in mouth washes)?
Drunk driving statistics are tragic. The majority of the tragedies are caused by a small percentage of drivers… mostly by repeat offenders. Why punish the entire population of drivers for the sins of a few? It’s easy to go after the population of repeat offenders… 1. The courts order the restrictions; 2. The DMV/SOSs can record those restrictions on a “smart” driver’s license; 3. The vehicle can read the smart driver’s license restriction (just like it reads a keyless start) and implement the restriction. Easy peazy, lemon squeezy.
December 1st, 2020 at 12:33 pm
As far as that fat pig the so-called “mustang” BEV:
As you all should know, the name Mustang originally meant a sleek wild HORSE, NOT a Hippopotamus or a Cow or a Rhinoceros.
So the name is just RIDICULOUS on this breadvan.
As for the “peerformance” version, 500 or so HP and 3.5 ” are very nice, but they are WASTED on a STUPID BREADVAN.
This does not mean it will not sell well, there are no limits on people’s BAD TASTE, as shown by the US car market SUV and Pickup sales figures. If the price is right, it will sell OK.
December 1st, 2020 at 12:39 pm
5 You are right, but so far it has nothing to compete with the mass market Models 3 and Y, or with the VW models. If their SUV is $75k, forget it. Musk needs to lose no sleep about Saudi-owned Lucid (or Osama) Motors.
December 1st, 2020 at 12:58 pm
Is there any way a completely passive drunk driver system can be made? I doubt it, and if cars came with a “blow through the tube to start” system, there would be a backlash like we have never seen, both from drinkers and non-drinkers.
It’s not too late for Ford to change the stupid name for their Model Y near-clone. It could turn out to be a decent vehicle, but the name remains really stupid.
7 I agree with Larry about something. That Genesis is way too close to the price of an E-Class or 5 series, even if it has more standard equipment, which I’m sure it does. Even Cadillac is now selling their cars at more “bargain” prices for their near-luxury sedans, with the base CT5 at ~$38K.
December 1st, 2020 at 12:59 pm
Larry, Clearly you are from the school of “if I repeat it often enough, it becomes true”. We ALL heard you the first time, and the twentieth. You gave your opinion, now stop claiming it has become a fact! People like you are the reason most countries in the world laugh at Americans. They respect America, but laugh at oud and repetitive Americans. Give it a rest.
December 1st, 2020 at 1:00 pm
https://www.ft.com/content/a2901ce8-5eb7-4633-b89c-cbdf5b386938
The Financial Times just updated their excellent pandemic history graphs (they skipped a week).
Europe is by far the worst area in the world (see the blue areas in the graph). Amazingly, between June and September, the deaths were miniscule, but currently they are expanding out of control. almost HALF of world deaths are in Europe! ALSO, the total world deaths is now almost TWICE the previous peak deaths in April.
The US is also increasing CV deaths. Generally we did expect more deaths in cold than warm weather, and this is also proven by Brazil data, where the seasons are reversed (their winter was in our summer).
December 1st, 2020 at 1:05 pm
Doh me Larry D., da smartest person there is(beat chest)! I call Mustang Mach E “peerformance” version STUPID BREADVAN, but would3dat mAke my beloved Tesla Model X STUPID BREADVAN toO! Me No knO, thinking is really Reel HaRd noW! Mus fiNd and Open more BeeR. Nappy time.
December 1st, 2020 at 1:08 pm
14 Here is a more meaningful chart, also from Financial Times, showing new cases per 100k population. Scroll down to see data by US state.
https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=usa&areas=gbr&areas=deu&areas=eur&areas=esp&areasRegional=usca&areasRegional=usfl&areasRegional=ustx&areasRegional=usin&areasRegional=usny&areasRegional=usnj&byDate=0&cumulative=0&logScale=1&per100K=1&values=cases
December 1st, 2020 at 1:17 pm
The EU is doing much worse in deaths/100k.
https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=usa&areas=bra&areas=gbr&areas=deu&areas=eur&areasRegional=usca&areasRegional=usfl&areasRegional=ustx&areasRegional=usin&byDate=0&cumulative=0&logScale=1&per100K=1&values=deaths
14 The equator goes through the northern part of Brazil. Yeah, the seasons are reversed farther south, but the big cities of Rio and Sao Paulo are closer to the equator than, say, Miami, so are not very “wintery.”
December 1st, 2020 at 1:21 pm
I usually don’t like the idea of convertibles as they seem to have more negatives than positives but that roof system on the C8 looks pretty wild. Maybe some day…
Of all the tech that could be on cars I still don’t understand why all cars don’t come with auto headlights?? My chevy’s have had them for 20years, a feature I think is very nice.
December 1st, 2020 at 1:23 pm
15 The Model Y and “mustang” Mach E are very close to the same size and shape. We will know in a few months how they compared in performance, comfort, etc.
December 1st, 2020 at 1:27 pm
18 Auto-on headlights are great, but I’ve rarely use auto high beam lights when I’ve had them. I think auto-on lights should be mandatory. It is very cheap to do, and I see far too many cars driving in the dark without lights on, making them very hard to see, even with street lights.
December 1st, 2020 at 1:32 pm
19 Also, the ID4 will compete with them. It is a little smaller, 5-6 inches shorter, but the same type vehicle, an electric, mildly lifted 5-door hatch.
December 1st, 2020 at 1:46 pm
15 is NOT mine, of course.
Some COWARD Loser is lamely trying to impersonating me, it seems.
Pathetic. I trust the show will kick his worthless, cheating ass off the forum.
December 1st, 2020 at 1:48 pm
@10: so your point is?
It is nothing, so the usual baseless ranting.
December 1st, 2020 at 1:49 pm
@18 – GM had daytime running lights (DRLs)… not always Auto Headlamps. DRLs in combination with newer instrumentation (always lit) is a problem if not combined with Auto Headlamps… as the driver can falsely believe the exterior lamps are “on”, but is lacking taillamps/side marker lamps /proper headlamp intensity (fundamentally, too many OEMs standardized DRLs without standardizing Auto Headlamps). I’m glad to see many OEMs are doing it right now.
December 1st, 2020 at 1:54 pm
@19, “are very close to the same size”: thanks for sharing the facts. Ahh, so sorry to learn that the “breadvan rant” was pointless.
December 1st, 2020 at 1:55 pm
@15, 22: great job, though. Imitated Hysterical Larry, Larry the Dinosaur, very well. Show more of this, maybe the idiot will understand how pathetic he is.
December 1st, 2020 at 2:07 pm
@17: Sao Paulo is at 2,500 ft of elevation, and it does get colder in winter. 40F At night, 60F during the day in winter. I have lived there for ten years.
December 1st, 2020 at 2:14 pm
15
:-O lol Indistinguishable from all other posts from Larry the D.
December 1st, 2020 at 2:30 pm
@22 – Be careful what you ask for. For your sake, you better hope it’s not a group vote. And it wasn’t me… I’m too OCD to improperly use caps that much (I like “…”).
December 1st, 2020 at 2:30 pm
Me Larry D., strongest leader, knO everytHinG! Mach E stupid BreAdvAn, but but Not Kool Model Y, Even tho TheY same Size. What i say bE riGht all tiMe, you wRong (beat chest 2 times)! I kNo breadVan when i see 1, causE i eAt bread every day. Make Me strong alL da time aNd Smart’r den U.
December 1st, 2020 at 2:37 pm
Where was Hindenburg when Tesla first started? Tesla lied over and over again. They sure got lucky!
December 1st, 2020 at 2:40 pm
@30: oh, here is the real Larry D. again, not the impersonator. I liked the impersonator as well. Both are hilarious. Keep it coming, this is great.
December 1st, 2020 at 2:46 pm
Ah, fond memories of trying to outrace the rain in the two-seater Honda CRX VTEC with that exceedingly complicated electric hardtop. Woo hoo!
2 – Lambo – It’s actually quite discernible. Battery prices have come down massively and the trend hasn’t stopped, while the global regulatory environment is already leading to massive investments (thus further driving down costs).
In the space of ten years, the streets of Manhattan completely changed over from horse-drawn carriages to being dominated by automobiles. As the Germans say, the laggard gets bitten by the dogs.
My personal prediction is that demand for explosively propelled vehicles will evaporate way before enough replacement capacity is ready.
8 – George – wind energy is quite predictably strongest at night, thus excellently complementing photovoltaics. Texas is the US leader by far (nearly 30 GW installed, humongous), and TXU has a plan based entirely on renewables with free nighttime charging.
Factoid: last year, Germany generated 21% of its electricity with wind power.
December 1st, 2020 at 2:51 pm
22
Are you sure it’s not you? I don’t see much difference in style and context. If it’s not you, I’m sure Sean will get the culprit.
December 1st, 2020 at 2:53 pm
Need to bring up an observation on “Fertigungstiefe” – vertical integration.
I recently mentioned that Volkswagen AG (the umbrella company of VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Lamborghini, etc.) employs north of 600’000 people [!].
They just published a document showing their in-house component suppliers add 40% of the ID.4′s value. See the Volkswagen newsroom.
December 1st, 2020 at 2:58 pm
@31, 34: are you the good Joe or the bad Joe? I lost count.
December 1st, 2020 at 3:42 pm
I’m happy Larry has become more of his real self. This Larry’s comments are far more intelegent and realistic.
December 1st, 2020 at 3:43 pm
Time to celebrate the new Larry by having the last slice of cherry pie!
December 1st, 2020 at 3:49 pm
36
There are two joe. One is “joe” and the other is “joe s”. I’m the “joe” who Larry D does not like, and says “joe s” is ok.
December 1st, 2020 at 3:56 pm
@39: got it, thanks for clearing that up. So you are the bad Joe. I apologize if “bad joe” is a “bad joke”. Wow, what a difference one letter makes.
December 1st, 2020 at 4:01 pm
Here is a good one for King Larry.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2020/12/01/adding-tesla-to-the-sp-500-was-a-bad-idea-in-september-even-worse-now/?sh=7aa99b456008
December 1st, 2020 at 4:27 pm
33. I have to disagree with you. Wind is NOT predictably and is stronger during the day. https://wxguys.ssec.wisc.edu/2013/11/18/why-does-the-wind-diminish-after-sunset/
Keep in mind that large windmills can only generate power when the wind speed is above 8 mph and below 45-50mph where they have to shutdown keep for damaging themselves.
Germany is at a much higher latitude than we are which makes wind energy much better choice for them. California get 7% of its power from wind and 20% from solar.
December 1st, 2020 at 4:57 pm
@33, 42: I was surprised to learn the high share of wind power in Germany’s fuel mix, at 21%. In Western Europe the strongest winds are along the Atlantic Ocean/North Sea coast. Germany, like Belgium, has a small coastline relative to the country’s size. Unlike Denmark, Netherlands, U.K., Ireland, France, Spain and Portugal, which have relatively large Atlantic coastlines.
Now I am turning into a Larry for a moment, since the following has nothing to do with the global automotive industry: my mother-in-law lives in the Northwestern part of the Netherlands and from her apartment I can see at least 35 large scale on-shore wind turbines. One was built 10 years ago, 500 yards from her place, and was at 7.5 MW Europe’s largest wind turbine at that time. It is beautiful and does not make much noise, even when you are right in front of it. The local population baptized it “The Public Servant” during its first year of operation, because it had a lot of down-time. The world’s largest wind turbine, a 12 MW General Electric prototype, is located 20 miles away, off-shore. It stands 900 feet tall, and has 300 feet blades. Have not seen it, yet.
December 1st, 2020 at 5:05 pm
@33 – I am not a meteorologist, but my personal observations are that the wind more often settles down at night. The ripples in the lake are a good indicator.
December 1st, 2020 at 5:13 pm
@44: I share your observation. The near-surface wind speed is highest in the early afternoon, yet not relevant for wind power generation. The wind speed at 150 feet above ground is relevant. And it is highest on average between midnight and sunrise.
December 1st, 2020 at 5:19 pm
27 Thanks for the info. I just looked at the latitude, and saw ~23 degrees S, but didn’t check the elevation. It sounds like the winter temp range is more like central-northern Florida, than south Florida.
December 1st, 2020 at 5:21 pm
Not to knock the value of wind turbines, they sure are an eye sore. What do any of you know about the placement of turbines altering bird migration or the number of birds killed by them?
The strings of turbines out west are away from the population, but I live on Lake Erie and don’t want one anywhere near my line of sight.
I have heard a string of them is/was planned to be built off the shores near Cleveland. I wonder if the vibration waves travel through the water enough to scare the fish away.
I don’t think I would like to find all the many answeres by trial and error.
December 1st, 2020 at 5:23 pm
@44, 45, I stand corrected: the wind at 500-600 feet above ground matters, not at 150 feet as I just wrote. For 5-7.5 MW wind turbines.
December 1st, 2020 at 5:36 pm
47 There is a wind turbine next to a school about 3 miles from my house in Indiana, with recycling collection right next to the base. I take stuff there a few times each summer, and have never seen a bird carcass.
I guess the “eyesore” thing is in the eyes of the beholder. I rather like seeing them, both because they are cool technology, and are good for the environment. There is an area with a bunch of big ones about 30 miles away in Indiana, and even right next to them, there is no vibration in the ground, and the only sound you hear is fans in the base of the tower cooling the electronics.
December 1st, 2020 at 5:37 pm
@46: yes, that’s it.
December 1st, 2020 at 5:38 pm
42 & 43
George, no problem. – Capacity factors for well-sited modern turbines are 40%+. Can’t pull up the TX hourly stats over several years, but they support my claim, if I remember correctly. Maybe it needs some qualifying by location? You can however observe generation in real time, say for Austin: https://austinenergy.com/ae/about/environment/renewable-power-generation
Wim – I’ve seen quite a few of the giant turbines in NL. Hope to catch a glimpse of the Haliade one of these days when travel can resume.
Wind at (ever increasing) hub heights is indeed the relevant metric. We’re close to an average of 90m now, roughly 270 ft. There’s a map for US onshore wind resources here: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/wind/where-wind-power-is-harnessed.php
Texas just keeps installing like mad – at half Germany’s current capacity, their proportion of electricity generation from wind is similar, at about 17% right now.
https://windexchange.energy.gov/states/tx
Comparison of top states:
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45996
OK, that was quite an excursion. There are dedicated sites for the schtuff too, but the discussion of EVs tends to meander.
38 – cwolf – I want some cherry pie too.
December 1st, 2020 at 5:45 pm
@47, 49: eye sore or not is a matter of personal taste. I am with Kit, I like the way they look. I look at it this way: would I rather be looking at a coal-fired power plant at this location or at 30 wind turbines (the equivalent of 150 MW, the average coal fired power plant)? The coal fired power plant will pollute the water with its mercury emissions and the air. I respect anybody’s choice.
Bird migration: birds adjust their migration pattern. Just like they don’t drop down by the millions at oil refineries, chemical plants, cities with high rises.
December 1st, 2020 at 6:39 pm
49,51) Your points well taken. Guess I have never gave turbines much thought. I must admit I have the attitude that I think these things are just great,….as long as they’re in your back yard. I can see the Davis Bessie Power Plant stack on a clear day from my port and there have been no problems other than what gets sucked into the intake and I don’t think coal powered plants are long for the future, unless some new technology happens.
So for now or until I become more enlightened, any man made object placed in the lake was not natures intension and does not belong there.
Are the benifits of turbines placed in lakes and oceans the same as the Dams built years ago? we are just starting to realize the long term consequences of some dams and they are not so good! Because of that I continue to question the proper use of turbines.
December 1st, 2020 at 7:02 pm
@52: I am with you. Location of wind turbines should be carefully selected. In the Netherlands many have been built along freeways to increase buy-in of the population: if you are fine with a freeway, its noise and its pollution, you cannot be opposed to wind turbines along that freeway.
I do not know much about wind turbines in teh U.S. In Western Europe wind turbines are built along the coast for the following reasons: the predominantly southwestern winds are strongest along the coast line, population density is high and cost of land (especially along the Atlantic coast), which is mostly privately owned, high. Off-shore is not privately owned and governments can auction off concessions. If you fly from the U.S. to Amsterdam and you look out of teh window, you can see hundreds of off-shore wind turbines 10 minutes before landing at the Amsterdam airport.
December 1st, 2020 at 9:42 pm
53 In central Indiana, most of the wind turbines I’ve seen are scattered around in farm fields, in sparsely populated areas. The land is very flat. The wind usually dies to almost nothing at night in the summer, but that would correlate with reduced demand as less A/C is used, and the TVs, lights, etc. would mostly be off. Of course, if and when there are a lot of EVs, there’d be more demand for power at night.
The turbo I mentioned earlier near a school is a one off, relatively small one, a few miles from town.
December 1st, 2020 at 9:48 pm
53 I’d think it would be expensive to put the turbines out in the ocean, but it sounds like it’s a lot cheaper than to put them on very expensive land near the coast. The land where they put them in Indiana would be cheap to lease, and the farming continues around them.
December 1st, 2020 at 11:11 pm
@55: I forgot to mention that from France to Denmark the coastal waters are shallow, so foundations for off-shore wind turbines are not prohibitively costly.
December 1st, 2020 at 11:11 pm
@55: I forgot to mention that from France to Denmark the coastal waters are shallow, so foundations for off-shore wind turbines are not prohibitively costly.
December 1st, 2020 at 11:41 pm
It’s just a matter of time when off shore wind farms will be erected in all of the Great Lakes. The installation of turbines on the eastern seaboard states is in full swing. New York, RI, Conn and Mass states are leaders and New Jersey come lately is getting in now too.
December 2nd, 2020 at 2:20 am
58 There was an article today I was not allowed to read, but the title said that Musk predicted that “EVs will double electric demand”. I have no idea when he thinks that will happen, and what will be the total car fleet and the new car sales BEV % at that time.
December 2nd, 2020 at 2:24 am
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/12/elon-musk-says-evs-will-double-worlds-need-for-electricity/
58, 59 but this one, we can all read the full article and the comments on it.
December 2nd, 2020 at 2:53 am
That was a nice discussion! Wind speeds at hub level is the relevant metric for judging a turbine’s siting, and the (US?) average has crept up to nearly 90m/300ft, with increasing capacity factors.
I’ve seen some of the Netherlands’ giant turbines and hope to catch a glimpse of GE’s (French-made) Haliade when travel resumes.
Where can I get cherry pie over here?!
December 2nd, 2020 at 8:45 am
59 There don’t seem to to be any offshore of Florida so far. Maybe too many people wouldn’t want to see them, or maybe too much hurricane risk.
December 2nd, 2020 at 8:52 am
EVs show poor reliability in CR’s surveys.
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/12/01/consumer-reports-finds-many-evs-unreliable/
December 2nd, 2020 at 9:07 am
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/musk-says-evs-will-double-electric-demand-tesla-would-consider-merger?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20201202&utm_content=article5-image
This will happen in 20 years.
With $500 bill valuation, Tesla can buy any automaker it wants, but Musk said no hostile takeovers, only discussions with interested companies.
I hope he does not waste his time with… Volvo/Geely or Nissan/Renault!
December 2nd, 2020 at 9:11 am
64 yeah, right. If this is true (implying that ICE appliances are more reliable than electric ones), then you should replace all your kitchen appliances by ‘horse and buggy’ dirty ICE ones. And don’t forget to install plenty of smoke detectors.
COMMON SENSE should tell you that Electric cars are far cheaper to maintain and require far less repairs than ICE ones. This has been the main argument of BEV fleets, the low fuel AND emissions AND maintenance and repair costs should more than make up for the higher first cost.
December 2nd, 2020 at 9:40 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ6GZp7LEWo
For the ICE nostalgia crowd.
Doug de Muro alleges that the first Porsche sedan was commissioned by Merc to save Porsche from bankrtuptcy, and ended up looking exactly like an E class of the time, a bit wider, and with a bigger 5.0 V8 than the usual 4.2 V8 of the E420.
December 2nd, 2020 at 9:48 am
45) With a 500B evaluation you would think TESLA could afford better quality than a Hyundai Excel from 1985.
December 2nd, 2020 at 9:51 am
Kit, as the last paragraph states, many of the problems stem from the added new technology and gizmos to give the PERCEPTION of luxury and high tech.
I think the one who offers just the basic EV city car will have the most initial success.
It appears that many of these are selling well in the EU and may be a reason why they are now selling better than a Tesla.
December 2nd, 2020 at 10:00 am
There is a learning curve to get the bugs out of new EV’s hitting the market; Like motor spindle issues and suspension problems, but after more than a decade of continuing body and interior issues that Tesla has is unacceptable!
December 2nd, 2020 at 10:58 am
69 Yeah, I suspect just poorly designed, non user friendly controls hurts survey results for some ICE cars too. I was surprised that the Kia Niro EV has motor bearing problems, but it’s well know that the Tesla Model Y has generally crappy build quality.
I suspect they pre-emptively predict below average reliability for the Porsche Taycan, based the the results for the E-tron which is also from VW group.
December 3rd, 2020 at 8:31 am
EV ARTICLES and TALK PUSH: Battery EV’s have been available in USA for a decade now. Total US sales is only 1.5% share with no signs of hockey stick growth. EV’s are expensive, have low range, take long to charge, and there is little charge infrastructure. Long trips are basically impossible. Needing to fool around with charge cord also inconvenient. High voltage fast chargers are high cost. EV’s are not green as most electricity comes from burning fossil fuels and the rare earth minerals for batteries are limited and causing human rights abuses in their mining. Consumers do not buy EV’s because they offer no/little value. Tesla owns the market because they over high end luxury performance EV’s with beautiful styling and high technology. Auto makers improving range helps but ignores the other issues.
China communist tyranny government and other EU socialist tyranny governments mandating EV’s does not add value to consumers. The global warming hoax was exposed in emails and CO2 was made clear is not a pollutant. CO2 is vital to existence of all life on earth. The ice caps are not melting away and sea levels are not rising. So why has China let their country become so polluted? Most pollution in China does NOT come from cars. The truth is coming out…slowly but surely.
Thank God in USA our founders created the US Constitution to protect INDIVIDUAL Liberty and 98.5% of Americans do NOT buy EV’s. The internal combustion engine will live onward for centuries to come…or at least until we can make hydrogen from water cheap enough for fuel cells to transition in and gas station pumps transition to hydrogen.