AD #3068 – Ford Adds New Tech To F-150; Suppliers Push Back on ICE Ban; Lotus Aims to Be All-Electric by 2028

April 28th, 2021 at 11:48am

ZF 468 x 60 driving intelligence March 29 2021

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Listen to “AD #3068 – Ford Adds New Tech To F-150; Suppliers Push Back on ICE Ban; Lotus Aims to Be All-Electric by 2028″ on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 9:09

0:08 Auto Suppliers Push Back on ICE Ban
1:16 Ford Plans New Battery Lab
2:08 Ford Adds New Tech To F-150
3:33 Mercedes Allows Customers to Choose What Data It Collects
4:36 Lucid Makes Progress on Air Sedan Production
5:08 Toyota Gives the Sienna a Bit More Ruggedness
6:31 Hino & REE To Develop Modular Electric Vehicles
7:20 Lotus Aims to Be All-Electric by End of The Decade

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43 Comments to “AD #3068 – Ford Adds New Tech To F-150; Suppliers Push Back on ICE Ban; Lotus Aims to Be All-Electric by 2028”

  1. GM Veteran Says:

    Regarding the story yesterday about the launch timing for the Ford F-150 EV, Andrew Frick, Ford’s North American Sales Chief was quoted yesterday saying that the BEV Transit will launch this year and the BEV F-150 will launch next year.

  2. Sean McElroy Says:

    @GM Veteran – Yesterday’s story was about the next-gen F-150 BEV that comes after the version that is scheduled to launch next year. Maybe we weren’t clear enough?

  3. Roger Says:

    It surprised me when read a few months back the new Sienna has a less powerful engine output than the last gen model, and no improvement in MPG. I guess you call that a lose-lose deal.

  4. Rey Says:

    Auto suppliers afraid or scared of change?LOL
    They are Dinosaurs bidding their time, hey China will buy your company out and turn you into a BEV supplier, fear not for your jobs , according to Michael Dunne a guest here in Autoline in 2013 and a Chinese Auto Industrial watcher,”The Chinese are here”, adapt to the changes or go the way of Kodak and Nokia, you MEMA folks and ICE are pathetic,The Europeans are trying to pivot ASAP esles the Chinese put them out of BZNZ, you old

  5. Marshy Says:

    Do we think the Ford has load cells built in or is it measuring suspension height/angle to calculate loads?

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    3 Huh??? The new Sienna has a huge improvement in mpg.

    https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=41386&id=43470

    CR’s tests show similar improvements.

  7. Rey Says:

    You old dinosaurs afraid of change,the pogey line starts here,if you can’t afford Walmart or the Dollar store.
    The Chinese aim to disrupt the American auto sector and follow in the heels of Tesla, no Stealerships needed or ICE for that matter.
    Time to wake up smell the coffee.☕

  8. Marshy Says:

    Micro manufacturing. I look forward to hearing the pitch. For me it sounds like more logistics, more variables, more HR and training, more commissioning, more of every overhead imaginable.

    If you are making locally, each factory will go in and out of production (on and off) as demand moves around. Centrally,
    Demand is averaged out, keeping things productive.

    I could go on, but you get the jist. John and Gary, don’t softball him!

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 Load cells, or maybe measurement of ride height at both ends.

  10. Rey Says:

    Auto suppliers afraid or scared of change?LOL
    They are Dinosaurs bidding their time, hey China will buy your company out and turn you into a BEV supplier, fear not for your jobs , according to Michael Dunne a guest here in Autoline in 2013 and a Chinese Auto Industrial watcher,”The Chinese are here”, adapt to the changes or go the way of Kodak and Nokia, you MEMA folks and ICE are pathetic,The Europeans are trying to pivot ASAP esles the Chinese put them out of BZNZ, you old

  11. Marshy Says:

    Rey,

    While I don’t assign any corporate activity to an individual nation, and I don’t wish anyone loss of their job, I do believe that the model that needs disrupting is the franchise dealership. Almost no customer assigns any value to their existence. Compare that with going into an Apple store.

    I just don’t trust them and with good reason. They tried to tell me my 3/16” parking brake cable was stretched. I asked by how much and what was the acceptable good length. No answer. Then I asked how they knew it was stretched if they couldn’t answer the first question.

  12. GM Veteran Says:

    2 – Perhaps my aging ears missed that detail. It seems weird that they would update the truck so soon, but then I’m sure there is a huge internal mandate to make sure that Ford is the light truck leader regardless of the powertrain.

    Thanks for the clarification Sean!

  13. Rey Says:

    Fords battery plans are 10 years too little too late, they wasted precious time fighting BEVs and even now say stuff vs Tesla, who will by next year will have solved 4680 battery ” manufacturing hell”, Progress is not kind to laggards and Tesla moves ” at the speed of thought” Sandy Munros words , not mine, oh if there is one thing Ford has done right , it might be the Mach E , go see it in the latest ” Munro Live ” in Youtube ,have a nice day

  14. Lambo2015 Says:

    4 Certainly MEMA has an interest in maintaining the jobs that already exist. Does that make them scared, afraid or old? Certainly not they want the transition to EVs to be inline with getting new graduates trained and or current workers retrained to manufacture EVs, batteries and such.
    Also Europeans have the ability to adapt quicker as the countries there are more dense and smaller. Making EVs more ideal than the wide open spaces of the US. Sure Europe and the US are about the same size but driving from east boarder to West boarder of say France is like 200 miles less than driving across Texas a single state. The highly populated West coast and East coast of the US will adapt much quicker to EVs than middle America. So a mandated move to EVs may sound great on paper but could have serious affects to the auto sales if half the country isn’t on board. Dropping a few million in sales is huge but if you ban ICEs and half the country stays with there old ICE and refuses to buy an EV sales could tank. I think that’s more MEMA concern as the supplier industry is huge.

  15. Rey Says:

    #11 Marshy, never met or stepped in a Stealership i wanted to get back in after going into one, and I’ve been to a dozen of them , both into the sales and service depth. There’s a reason why they are in one of the most despised professions and that model of sales and service needs overhauling, makes you wonder why they ( NADA & Old Auto) are so against Tesla…

  16. Rey Says:

    #14 Lambo , change is needed , adapt or see the jobs disappear before your very eyes, the
    legacy Auto have to pivot now, not tomorrow,the Chinese are already in the midwest , they bought companies during the great recession according to Michael Dunne , if you go back to all his interviews here in Autolinedaily, you Fossil heads have no clue about the speed of change about to happen, and consumers don’t care about national or source of origin of the vehicles , bottomline is cost..

  17. Sean Wagner Says:

    Oof. Just right now, Munro is predicting 5% ICEs in Europe by — 2028.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14 The coastal areas will adapt to EVs much more quickly, if people can charge them at home in apartments. As things are now, I could charge an EV at home at my 90 year old house in “middle America,” but not at my condo 1/2 mile from the east coast.

    13 It will be interesting to see how the 4680 cells do in the real world, especially with fast charging. Heat is generated throughout the cell, and it has a long path out with those big, cylindrical cells.

  19. Lambo2015 Says:

    16 The speed of change is still driven by market demand. They could ban the production of all ICEs for 2022 and you know what would happen? The auto industry would crash. EVs are too expensive and not practical for many people. Consumers do not need to buy a new car and will hold onto their old ICE or buy a used one. All a mandate is going to do is drive the price of used cars up dramatically.
    For many people like myself an EV doesn’t have the range and I’m not spending 60K on a vehicle that does half of what I need it to do.
    Sure things may change in the next ten years but a lot of that is dependant on high hopes. Technology that hasn’t been developed yet or charging stations that haven’t been installed yet.

  20. ChuckGrenci Says:

    It looks like the Ford pickup system is using height sensors for the weight estimations and taillight indicators which can be turned off (I’m guessing when you’re overweight and are proceeding home anyway). The weight feature is available for XL pickups and higher trim levels and will be available for $650, but with the XL, you’ll need to add another package. The smart hitch, while giving you weight estimates won’t help too much unless you know the weight of the trailer you’re towing and you’ll also have to enter (into the system) how much weight that will be in the cab (driver and passenger weights).

    With the continuous controlled dampers, you’ll need to have a Lariat package or higher and this will cost $695.

    These seem as they could be some useful features and at not too an expensive price but they will need some driver interaction to gain the maximum benefit.

    I gleaned this information from watching a video from TFL truck; link, if you want to watch for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oexI5EIIg0

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    20 That stuff is interesting, but doesn’t sound terribly useful. I’ll watch the video and maybe find out if it reads the gas gauge, and accounts for the fuel in the tank, or if you need to enter that manually.

  22. Sean Wagner Says:

    8 Marshy – I’d like to know more about the hard numbers/requisite machinery too. A product specifically designed for low-volume distributed production should be interesting.

    19 Agree that the product must fit the market.

    Which is why I’ve been saying for a while that ICE sales will practically vanish before the end of this decade, at least in Europe and (I presume) Asia. Noone is going to spend their money on old tech if the need isn’t acute.

    This may actually lead to a sales contraction, as battery cell capacity will probably not be there yet.

    However, battery tech and cost will continue to accumulate small gains for quite a while – the tech we’ll see on the road in four to five years’ time is largely locked in. It all comes down to cost.

    Incidentally, has anyone wondered why Ford never released an optionally V8-powered Mustang crossover before the Mach-E? Would have sold well.

  23. Sean Wagner Says:

    5 Marshy – I’m thinking cheap silicon gyros/accelerometers that are built in anyway. They must still be widely available…

  24. 1949view Says:

    19 – I agree. A too rapid change-over from ICE to EV is a real concern, with potential for many negative impacts to industry. Living in a rural area, I see problems with many EV designs and business plans: too little range (about half of what ICE gas tank range provides); too few charging stations; at present US electric grid does not appear capable of handling charging demands for a 100% nationwide EV fleet (where will that electricity come from?); excessive cost for EV initial purchase; limited life and high replacement cost for replacement batteries; lack of complete end-of-life recycle plan for batteries; lack of access to rare earth ores and domestic processing plants; on and on. The private sector is on it and the transition to electric will be made, but time will be needed to fit all the pieces together. Overly aggressive deadlines by government to force the changes have potential to do real and lasting damage to auto industry.

    na

  25. 1949view Says:

    19 – I agree. A too rapid change-over from ICE to EV is a real concern, with potential for many negative impacts to industry. Living in a rural area, I see problems with many EV designs and business plans: too little range (about half of what ICE gas tank range provides); too few charging stations; at present US electric grid does not appear capable of handling charging demands for a 100% nationwide EV fleet (where will that electricity come from?); excessive cost for EV initial purchase; limited life and high replacement cost for replacement batteries; lack of complete end-of-life recycle plan for batteries; lack of access to rare earth ores and domestic processing plants; on and on. The private sector is on it and the transition to electric will be made, but time will be needed to fit all the pieces together. Overly aggressive deadlines by government to force the changes have potential to do real and lasting damage to auto industry.

    na

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 Interesting. If ICE sales practically vanish in Europe by the end of the decade, sales might contract, a lot. In addition to battery cells, will the industry be ready for a ten fold increase in demand for power electronics, and the “rare earth” materials used in permanent magnet motors? Things in the auto industry will be interesting over the next few years.

  27. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    26) There are a lot of moving pieces and I take literally everything Sandy Munro says with a grain of salt. Especially since he is heavily vested in pushing BEVs so he can sell his 3 wheeled electric thing that he is a business partner on.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    27 In a video, Sandy M. was really excited, in a positive way, about the beer cooler in the frunk of the Mach-E. I’d rather just have open storage space, and use a regular cooler, where the ice would last a lot longer.

  29. Sean Wagner Says:

    26 It will be interesting to see how things shake out. The number of suppliers who are investing heavily in EV components for China has been notable. Many of the industry’s best-known names, from GKN to Schaeffler to Nidec.

    And so-called rare earths are not rare, of course (for the general public). While electric motors can and are also designed without permanent magnets.

    The guys over at Benchmark Minerals have a lot of intimate knowledge and say the time to develop and fully rev up new mining operations will be the pacing function (well, they might be biased).

    In any case, it’s good to hear Ford is (finally) investing in pack-level and cell-level knowledge acquisition – they may have realized being overly dependent on the VW group can’t be a recipe for sustained success.

    Whose profits will plunge first and the most? And when are those Rivian delivery vans hitting the road for Amazon? How long will the transition take? What role autonomy?

    We’ll still be eating pizza for sure. And a Porsche Cayman will still be loads of fun to drive.

  30. 2doorit Says:

    Anybody else wondering where all this electricity is going to come from for all these electric vehicles when big cities can’t even keep up with demand during the summer for air conditioning and have to have rolling brown and black outs? Anybody seen any plans to upgrade the grid or add more capacity with more electric generating plants? They sure won’t be coal or oil fired plants with the green future we are heading into.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 One thing great about the Cayman is the lack of adjustability. They decided how the steering should be, and it is great. There is a “sport” mode, that makes the exhaust louder and makes the throttle more sensitive off idle. To me, quieter is generally better, and I like low gain throttle, the better for driving smoothly, so I don’t use sport mode. On the rare occasions I want louder exhaust, there is a separate button for that.

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    30 Adding 100 million EVs would increase the total electricity need by ~7%, and if the charging were done off-peak, current generating capacity would be adequate. Actual charging locations are the big thing, as far as making the US more “EV friendly.”

  33. Sean Wagner Says:

    31 I’m all for a sportscar (or roadster) being engineered and optimized by the same set of experts. So Porsche’s way or the Autobahn!

  34. Lambo2015 Says:

    #2 I’m less concerned about the production of enough electricity and more concerned with the transference of the power. The cost to get power to the street so a charging station can even be installed is a huge cost. The millions of home owners that will need to upgrade their electrical panel and service to their garage or driveway.
    I think it would be very inconvenient to own a home yet need to charge your EV at a public charging station. Certainly anyone buying an EV will want the ability to charge at home even if they don’t have a garage they can be charged outside. So your adding a charging station to your driveway or garage.
    One of the best way to assist in EV transition is for the Gov to offer tax credit or rebates toward installation of a charging station at home. Of if the manufacturer provides the charger for free with purchase. They need to start thinking about how to expand the charging network and not as much about subsidizing the car purchase. That’s really only getting us half way there.

    I’m upgrading my electrical system in my home this year and plan to install enough capability for two EVs even though I have no plans to buy one anytime soon. If I don’t, I can plug in a motorhome and or my welder.

  35. Lambo2015 Says:

    my comment in 34 was to 32 Kit not #2.

  36. 1949view Says:

    32 “if charging were done off-peak, current generating capacity would be adequate” Don’t know if folks in Texas would agree with that. Also, as to whether EV drivers are willing to limit their charging to off-peak hours, my observation is that they seem to want their charging when they want it. For example, it’s interesting to see Teslas queuing up at a local charging station on Sunday afternoons, just in time for their trips back to their homes in urban Northeast areas. Their mantra: “Just in time” charging.

  37. Kit Gerhart Says:

    36 Yeah, Texas recently showed the world that they should join the 20th century, and be part of the national grids, rather than “doing it alone,” putting millions without power. Also, they need to build stuff to handle a winter storm, even though winter storms occur only about once a decade in most of the state.

    34 The need to update electrical service depends on how fast you want to charge a car. Most garages would have a 120v outlet, which will add ~4 miles of driving per hour of charging. For many people using an EV for commuting, this would be adequate. For faster charging, even with the 100 amp service in my old house in Indiana, I could add a 40 amp, 240v outlet for minimum cost. That would charge a Model 3 at ~25 miles/hour. That would charge a Model 3 Long Range in 9 hours.

    https://www.clippercreek.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/SMUD_Charge-Times-Chart-20171208_Final_Low-Res.pdf

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    34 The need to update electrical service depends on how fast you want to charge a car. Most garages would have a regular 120v outlet, which will give ~4 miles of driving per hour of charging. That would be adequate for many people who use an EV only for commuting. A 40 amp, 240v outlet will charge a Model 3 Long Range at 25 miles per hour of charge, fully charging it in 9 hours. Even in my old house in Indiana with 100 amp service, I could add such an outlet for minimal cost.

    https://www.clippercreek.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/SMUD_Charge-Times-Chart-20171208_Final_Low-Res.pdf

  39. Lambo2015 Says:

    36 Yeah someone already pointed out the fact that we really need to have more chargers than gas pumps due to the fact that the charging time is 6 to 10 times longer than pumping gas. Could be pretty aggravating to wait 20 minutes just to plug in then wait the 20 more minutes for your charge. How that wait is managed will be important too. As I could see some pretty ticked off people at some of the chargers I’ve seen in rest stops that are at a single parking spot. So if your next you can pull behind them you’ll block them in. So if you park elsewhere and come back to find the person left and now a new person is charging I’d be more than frustrated.

  40. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    39) Why these charge points aren’t pull through is amazing to me. Given that there was fist fights over simply boarding on a plane, I suspect there will be fist fights when the larger group of people get hurt about someone taking “their” charger. I suspect that every non-pull through charger that exists today will be obsoleted soon enough.

  41. Kit Gerhart Says:

    40 Would “pull through” work when some people would be there 20 minutes, and others for an hour? I suppose all of this will be “in flux” for years, and will eventually sort itself out.

  42. 1949view Says:

    34 Also, California’s grid, with its history of brownouts, seems to need work, if charging of a 100% EV fleet is ever to become a reality there.

  43. Joe G Says:

    I think just as important to EV range is dealing with range ‘loss’ in cold weather climate areas. We had a customer who’s 270 mile range was 219 fully charged in winter and wanted to set a service appointment to fix this problem. Another point to consider in EV adoption in this country.