Episode 305 – Big Reveal From Cadillac, Lincoln’s New Look, Designers Name Best In Show
January 13th, 2010 at 9:00am
Runtime 5:59
Cadillac unveils a new vehicle of heroic proportions. A look at Lincoln’s new direction. Designers from a number of companies name best car in show. All that and more, plus more from Autoline Daily correspondent, Issac Bouchard on the floor of the Detroit show.
Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog, The Auto Channel, Car Chat, WardsAuto.com and WWJ Newsradio 950
Share
Embed
Permalink
Comments (60)
January 13th, 2010 at 10:16 am
http://www.autoextremist.com/
Today’s Autoextremist Rant, I agree with everything except the positive review of the so-called “flasgship” and “heroic proportioned” Caddilac, which is neither-nor!
John Mc Elroy: Do you really believe what you are saying, that this mid-size Caddy with the v6 and the rather pitifully short wheelbase of 111 ” (vs 126″ of flagship cadillacs of the past and, more importantly, of S classes and BMW 7s of the present!) is a “flagship”? Give me a break!
If Caddy aks $60k for this LITTLE POS (with options; or $50k base price), few will buy it. Deja Vu!
January 13th, 2010 at 10:21 am
Can someone please raise the salary of poor Issac Bouchard to a Corolla or Civic?? (that was really sad) -oh, wait, he is at the auto show not me, Screw him.
Also, I got to say – I’m not too kin of the Cadillac interior: Brown to Browner plus grey, and the MKX all black, don’t any of these people ever heard of contrast colors.
January 13th, 2010 at 10:35 am
I second Salvador’s motion. It is indeed a cruel life to drive a Hyundai Accent around.
The Bentley now, that was NICE! And, John, look at the Bentley Mullsanne, and learn what a car of TRULY “Heroic Proportions” and a TRUE Flagship looks like!
But you do not have to go to supercar territory, just look at the old Caddy Fleetwoods, or the current S class, 7 series, or the Lexus 460 (the LONG versions for all).
THAT is what a flagship should look like for Caddilac as well. An unbeatable V8, and a SERIOUSLY big interior! With limo-like leg room in the back, just like in any S class or 7 series long version!
January 13th, 2010 at 10:35 am
I do like what I see in the new Cadillac. While I don’t think that “heroic proportions” properly describes it, I do think it is the best Cadillac I have seen in a long time.
Not sure about all those digitally displayed gauges though.
Ford or Lincoln’s new “knobless” design is a failure in my opinion. Knobs are much more ergonomically correct than a bunch of buttons.
January 13th, 2010 at 10:43 am
Isn’t the entire auto industry getting smaller (vehicles, not to mention size)? Wouldn’t you expect a smaller flagship? Even at $50K it’s still A LOT cheaper then a 7 Series or a S Class. Also, I am sure the performance of the V6 will be compareable to previous V8′s. Come on Nick, can you be optomistic about ANYTHING??
January 13th, 2010 at 11:01 am
I think the Cadillac XTS looks very good, at least in the pictures, but I agree with Nick that a “flagship” Cadillac needs to be more like an S-Class or LS460. The XTS should be marketed below, rather than above the CTS, given its platform roots. If Cadillac wants a “flagship” on a budget, maybe they should make a long version of the CTS. The CTS is about the same width and height as an S-Class, so maybe it would look ok stretched.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:04 am
T Beima,
I have been an optimist all my life. Get a grip with your silly attacks.
Go to a dictionary and read what a FLAGSHIP is,
and in answer to your Q, NO, absolutely NOT, the entire auto industry is NOT AT ALL gettign smaller, you have obviously NOT paying ANY attention!
We have MANY TIMES here (Esp. PEDRO) lamented the continuous CREEP UP in sizes, where every new generation is BIGGER, NOT Smaller, than its predecessor.
BUT regardless, my point is that Detroit HAS ABANDONED the Segment of TRUE TOP OF THE LINE Luxury cars, and I repeat so evgen Beima gets it, the S-class, 7 series and Lexus LS and Audi A8, ALL in their LONG versions, all with MIGHTY V8s, NOT v6s, and NO, the v6, no matter how many turbos you stuff in it, will NOT match the V8, and anyway it is a moving target, since the base v8 in today’s 7 is a 400 HP machine, WHILE the base v8 of the Mercs and BMWs a decade ago had 100+ LESS HP than that.
The new caddy is perfectly acceptable as a CHEAP MID SIZE offering with a v6. NOT as any kind of a FLAGSHIP. PERIOD. END OF DICSUSSION.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:06 am
Drew Says:
January 13th, 2010 at 10:35 am
“Ford or Lincoln’s new “knobless” design is a failure in my opinion. Knobs are much more ergonomically correct than a bunch of buttons.”
I agree, and have felt that way for a long time. I always liked the big, round heater control knobs in a “beater” Saab 99 I once had, compared to the buttons and sliders everyone else used at the time. With buttons and sliders, going over a small bump can easily produce the wrong control input.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:17 am
Nick, I finished my homework assignment…
“Flagship \Flag”ship’\, noun (Naut.) The vessel which carries the commanding officer of a fleet or squadron and flies his distinctive flag or pennant.” LOL. Thought that was funny…
or more appropriately:
“The chief one of a related group”
Hmm… Nothing about size…
I work for one of the big three in a field related to product development and I can tell you that EVERY vehicle that we are developing is smaller than what used to be called midsize, no matter what you think. Sure, some are bigger than their previous version, but overall the focus is on smaller vehicles.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:28 am
Part of a definition of flagship I found:
“Auto companies usually have a flagship in the form of their most important car. The Mercedes-Benz S-Class is one example, and the Jaguar XJ is another.”
January 13th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
Kit,
No, the flagship car is NOT the most imoportant car, usually it sells in very small numbers and contributes a small amount of the profits.
But, as in your examples, the flagship is typically the largest, most powerful and most Expensive Executive Sedan of the company. Such as the S-class, 7 Series, LS and A8, all in their LONG versions.
A LONG wheelbase is extremely critical in a flagship sedan, as many are used to carry execs around, the execs are in the back seat and want AMPLE leg room, limo-like leg room! Which the S, the 7 , the A8 and the new LS (all in the LONG versions) provide.
Caddilac USED to have such sedans. NOt for many years, though. Even in CHINA, they HAD to lengthen the STS to make it a true executive sedan. The new so-called flagship suffers from a VERY small 111 inch wheelbase, this is smaller than even the mid-size E class and 5 series! This kills interior comfort and room in the back seat, and makes the car look goofy with the large overhangs (if the car is long).
I will not include the XJ among executive sedans since it has always had less (or, in earelier years, significantly less) rear seat room than all its competitors.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
The reason cars are not getting smaller here is the relatively low cost of fuel in the US. But it will go up again for sure, everyone from the govt and even car makers are asking for it to happen. But you know what when it rose up to $4 plus in the summer of 08, car sales plummeted and they have not bounced back, so be careful what you wish for. PS re flagships, if I’m not mistaken Caddy’s WAS the Fleetwood Brougham when the regular Caddy was that FWD POS Devile.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Bentley: the official car of the NBA players association.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
The other reason cars are not smaller is that there is no need to make them as small as in Europe and Japan, where streets are often narrow and one needs to parallel park every day at work.
Gas is already TWICE what it was a year ago. It is far from the driving season and last time I filled my tank, premium was $2.95 already. Even regular will well exceed $3 soon, or at least by Memorial day. It is yet to be seen if this changed behavior, in 2008 it took well above $3 for people rto seriouslychange buying habits.
Car sales did not plummet because of the high gas prices Pedro, car sales SHIFTET from F-1250s to Civics. PROFITS may have plummeted because of the change.
Car sales plummeted later, after the financial crisis, and when gas prices had also plummeted to less than $2!
January 13th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
But shouldn’t the flagship also be the most expensive ones? In that case you have those specialty AMG and M 2 door high performance models from the German brands that cost more than their larger S and 7 class.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
The most important car (or model series) for BMW is actually the next-to-smallest 3 series, since it sells in huge numbers and gets it a lot of profits. For Mercedes, it is the E-class, not the S or the C, for the same reason, best seller.
Ford’s most important division is by far the one selling the cheapest vehicles, Ford division. yet its flagships are Lincolns. Same with Chevy, Chevy is by far the most important division in GM, but Caddy has the flagships.. or used to…
January 13th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
“# Pedro Fernandez Says:
January 13th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
But shouldn’t the flagship also be the most expensive ones? In that case you have those specialty AMG and M 2 door high performance models from the German brands that cost more than their larger S and 7 class.”
Actually the most expensive MErc, with the exception of the exotic SLR Mclaren at $440000 or so, is the CL class, same as S class but in personal coupe style with modest rear leg room. They still are not really the flasgships. MErcedes CEOS are not driven around in these, their legs would hurt after a few miles if they are taller than 6 1″. The regular S class (AMG if you prefer, but long S class still() is the flagship.
Look at any bigshot meeting like in Copehnagen when heads of state are driven around. Invariably, this is done in black long versions of S class or Audi A8s or 7 series. In the US, it used to be fleets of Cadillac Fleetwood long sedans and limos.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
PS PEdro, no M class BMW is half as expensive than the Top 7 series, the imposing V12 760iL that easily exceeds $130k, $150 k with options. The M5 or M6 is much less than that, the M3 less than half that.
There is no M 7 series, but they are bringing back the Alpina B7, this is a 500 HP v8, but the regular 760 V12 has just as much power, only less sporty delivery.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Nick said:
“But, as in your examples, the flagship is typically the largest, most powerful and most Expensive Executive Sedan of the company. Such as the S-class, 7 Series, LS and A8, all in their LONG versions.”
These were not my examples, but those from a definition I found on the internet which also included the “ship with the Admiral” definition.
Anyway, there are differences in what you might mean by “important.” There is a case for saying the S-Class is the most “important” car for M-B because it largely defines the companies “luxury” image. If you are talking about the big sellers that pay the bills, other cars are obviously more “important” to Mercedes. Yeh, the XJ is not that good of example for either meaning of “important.”
January 13th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
I hope if they intend to go forward with the Granite as a production car (UUV; urban utility vehicle), that they bring more to the table than just another squared off box to the market; there are already too many of them now.
And I still like the XTS; I like it alot. (I heard estimates of pricing from around 45(base) to 55(fairly loaded) thousand dollars. I think they are talking about a 2012 model so what finally makes the final cut is arbitrary at this point.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
oil prices are a joke, there is no reason that it is 80 bucks. 10+ % unemployment and a heck of alot of people NOT driving as far or much. The talking heads say there is so much oil in the market it is hard to sell…so why the 80 dollar tag!!!!!
January 13th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
The car fleet in China is growing at a double digit annual rate. They are using a lot more oil there, even if we aren’t.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Applaud the trend to glass dash,but why are dials still represented when simple numerals need no translation?
January 13th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
“# Kit Gerhart Says:
January 13th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Nick said:
“But, as in your examples, the flagship is typically the largest, most powerful and most Expensive Executive Sedan of the company. Such as the S-class, 7 Series, LS and A8, all in their LONG versions.”
“These were not my examples, but those from a definition I found on the internet which also included the “ship with the Admiral” definition.”
The S class was indeed explicitly mentioned in your example. And I am sure you have no objection to include all of the others above.
“Anyway, there are differences in what you might mean by “important.””
I did not use the term “important”, and in fact I replied that if “important” is what you want, then the 3 series and the E class are far more important for merc and BMW profits and overall, than the S and the 7.
January 13th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
“# dave Says:
January 13th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
oil prices are a joke, there is no reason that it is 80 bucks.”
It is unsusual to be that high in the middle of the winter, with far less oil used than in the Driving season (Mem Day-labor day).
BUT note that these are WORLD, not just US, oil prices, we are NOT isolated or protected. With the rest of the world in recovery, and 13-15 million new cars every year in China ALONE, oil demand will grow again. Prices would still be low IF the world oil SUPPLY rose to match the demand (there is plenty of excess capacity in OPEC especially), BUT OPEC does not want to help!
So if $80 is high to you now, be prepared for $100 and $120 in the summer.
January 13th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Nick,
What I posted that included the word “important” and used the S-Class and XJ as examples was someone’s definition I got from the internet. This was not MY example or MY use of the word “important” to describe certain cars in a compenies fleet, though I agree that the S-Class is M-B’s flagship, and is an “important” car for the company, even if the E-Class pays more of the bills.
January 13th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Don’t forget home heating oil; very cold winter this year, usage is got to be higher than average. Gasoline is just part of the equation.
January 13th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
hey dave it is called speculation because if the amount of oil they sell goes down they need to charge more per barrel to make up the difference in $$$$
January 13th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
Kit:
Just look at the posts in their chronological order, we are going back to the same thing again and again,
LONG before YOU clauimed that the smaller less expensive cars are more imoportant, I had already made the SAME POINT, using the E class and the 3 series as far more imoportant than the S and the 7 as an example. I said that already in post #16!
You said a similar thing in post 19!! hadn’t you read post 16 by that time????
January 13th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
That takes nothing away from the fact that the FLAGSHIP vehicle is not the same as the most important vehicle, and the flagship car should be a large executive sedan that is typically the most expensive, luxurious AND powerful car of a maker, that “bears its flag” and sells in small numbers.
Even when the flagship makes no profits for the maker, it is very crucial in attracting people to the brand, and also in having every c class and 3 series driver pleased to know that the same type of vehicles includes the vastly superior and more expensive S and 7, respectively. Also see the “halo effect” etc..
January 13th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
# Chuck Grenci Says:
January 13th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Don’t forget home heating oil; very cold winter this year, usage is got to be higher than average. Gasoline is just part of the equation.
I am fully aware of it, but I also check the inventories weekly and the crude invcentories are at all time highs.
The cold weather was just a couple days, and now we have a week of very pleasant and mild weather here, upper 30s!
Also, the percentage of homes heated with oil is tiny, less than 3% or so, so this could not have made a big dent.
It is not the speculators either. it is the supply and demand balance, but world-wide.
January 13th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Nick,
As I said in post 19, different cars are important to car companies in different ways. The S-Class is important to M-B in that it establishes the image of the company. Yes, halo image. The E-Class is important to the company because it pays more of the bills. Mercedes-Benz would not be the same car company without the S-Class, or without the E-Class. That makes both cars important to the company, but for different reasons. I think we are arguing semantics about the meaning of the word “important.”
January 13th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Please tell me if I’m wrong, but recent history shows that when a car maker builds something TOO expensive for their brand image, they fail, I can think of the Maybach and Phaeton both very nice cars indeed, but if you got the bread for a Maybach you get a Bentley/Rolls or in the Phaeton range you go with Merc S or BMW 7. That’s why I think the Panamera will fail and Ford is not selling many Tauruses. By the way, where is Chevy’s flagship? They desperately need a better Impala.
January 13th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
I know its supply and demand balance, I try to follow it, but “they” say that the market has too much oil and is hard to sell. That is not just in the US it is the world wide market has too much oil, why is the $$ so high…CONTROL.
You wait till Isreal hits Iran the prices at the local gas station will jump over 5 bucks before the first bomb hits the ground
January 13th, 2010 at 4:35 pm
These oil folks have us by the gonads, for every little reason the price goes up: Simon quits American Idol, Haitian earthquake, Iran or No. Korea fire a missile, So Fl had a week of low temps. Blizzard in the north, pot legalized in California (I wonder if the governator will be lighting up the first legal bong?)
January 13th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Isn’t Chevy’s flagship Corvette?, Sort of?
January 13th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
I like the XTS, the Interior is no more Bland and says Baby Boomer Mobile than a BMW or Hyundai Equus does. The car can only be judged on it merits, as its equitably stacked against the competition.
Hey, Im trying to be fair and nice about GMOYOTA (I still think they will merge when the next economic Bomb drops).
John, I think Lincoln finally found that missing refinement. The current look is nice, but it needed to be refined just a teeny bit more. Issac is right about that Accent its a very good little car, but I unlike Issac wouldnt go for the super cheap trim though. The Rio will take its place on the budget trim front.
January 13th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Its a fun lttle car too when given the right equippment after tuning it. It puts a smile on my face every time I drive it, after ringing the neck out that little 1.6. Yes, it makes me feel good.
Becuase of the Accent Hyundai has a customer in me for life.
January 13th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Kit: I don’t think people who buy a Vette buy it because it’s a Chevy, but because there’s nothing quite like it for the money, it is a very niche car. But Chevy does need its Impala of Caprice flagship. Why GM didn’t turn the G8 into a Caprice is unexplainable. H/S would you drive an Accent instead of the Bentley, if you had to pay for gas, insurance maintenance etc? I couldn’t afford those expenses even if they gave me the car for free!!!
January 13th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
Its a good FWD drifting car too, Hyundai should market that more. Its an absolute ball of fun in the snow. Weapon R Intakes with exhausts work really well in this car.
The achilles heel though is the 4 speed tranny (Next gen model will get 6 speed). The best way to get what you want in terms of performance is to just manually shift the Auto trans yourself, that’s what they do in Korea anyway. Plus, your reaction time with this tranny is a little faster (like 0.3 secs) than the computer.
I love that little 4 cyl roar, kind of like the Gen Coupe 4 cyl roar. That’s one of my most favorite things about this car. Its an Accquired taste I guess, but I love roaring 4 Cyl engines just like some people love roaring V8s.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
Pedro, Im a grass roots Hyundai guy helping the company, myself, and customers. They listen to their customers. Just say some of the details in the latest Hyundai refreshes and redesinged models are some my ideas. KIA on the other hand needs a few managment changes, as they dont listen to their customers very well.
Hyundai is being slowly but surely being developed to be a credible Luxury brand, so I want help to push them along the way.
And besides, if I wanted a VW product and had to pay that much for it Pedro. Im getting me a Bugatti Veyron. I just never felt, nor understood Bentley.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
Id think about getting a Maserrati Quatroporte if I wanted a sedan that cost more than a House, but Id back out at the last moment as my thrifty nature would kick in. Id buy the Equus instead.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
“You wait till Isreal hits Iran the prices at the local gas station will jump over 5 bucks before the first bomb hits the ground”
Dave, they are pricing that in today with gas prices rising….
The closer the price gets to $4.00 plus per gallon, the faster the U.S. economy will fail.
January 13th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
If Cadillac truly wants the XTS to be a flag ship car then it better be RWD with available V-8 power. You won’t fool Audi,BMW and Merc owners by disguising a FWD Buick/Impala in Cadillac skin with AWD and a $50K-$65K price. Seems like some of the old GM is still alive.
January 13th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
H/S said”
“And besides, if I wanted a VW product and had to pay that much for it Pedro. Im getting me a Bugatti Veyron. I just never felt, nor understood Bentley.”
While I couldn’t afford the insurance and tax on a Bentley, even if I got the car for free, I think Bentley has some REALLY COOL CARS. VW, IMHO, has done a lot better job with Bentley than BMW has with Rolls Royce.
January 13th, 2010 at 9:34 pm
I kind of sort of like the Continental, and he Brooklands is my least favorite. Itsjus ttoo old school. Companies like BMW, Merc, Audi I think will go even further upmarket as the population ages and Dies. Gen Yers who are going to obtain wealth ar going to want something more modern. Benz, BMW, and Audi are going to be New School Ultra Luxury.
Watch Youll see. I may sound crazy to you now however, 10-20 years from now Youll see these old Ultra Luxury marques start dropping like Flies.
Europeans:
Mercedes=New Aston
Audi=New Bentley
BMW= New Rolls
Aston=Done
Rolls=Done
Bentley=Done
Jaguar=Done or Same
MINI=More Upmarket
Volvo=Done
VW= New Audi
Japanese/Americans:
Lexus=New Merc
Infinti=New Audi
Cadillac=New BMW
Acura=Done, or New Audi
Nissan=New Infinti
Subaru=Done or New SAAB
Buick=Done, or the New Caddilac
Lincoln=New Acura
Mercury=Done, or the in the same spot
Chrysler=Done
Koreans:
Hyundai=Lexus
Ssangyong=In US Market
Daewoo= Building Cadillacs with BMW Fit and Finish.
Chinese:
Riich=New Chrysler/Hyundai (What I like Riich, they are a promising Chery Brand)
and a few others
I can see luxury looking like this in 20 years
January 13th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
H/S must be breathing too many Accent exhaust fumes.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:16 pm
20 years ago Lexus was a joke, and now they are the new Mercedes. Hyundai can do that by 2020, Lexus taught them a lot, VW taught them a lot, and I think they are well on their way executing the program.
Think about this:
Just on Hyundai alone, as you guys talk about high gas prices, and international events making them that way tied to a “New Normal” Economy, Hyundai’s future is super bright as it goes upmarket.
Ill Explain:
Hyundai is the most fuel efficient automake in the US already. Could you imagine 5-10 years from now, here comes Hyundai the savior of the High Volume luxury Market with their highly fuel effieicent and reliable powertrains? As the years go by the cars become more sophisticated, and they keep the prices relatively low the following that “Frugality” thing.
Hyundai is totaly banking on High Gas Prices.
They have the bandwith like Benz, why waste Billions on a Luxury brand, when you can acutally make even more money through a global upmarketing scheme of the Hyundai brand itself.
Look at Hyundai Europe, the i20 is as good as a Merc A class in interior fit and finish, and the Merc A-class is about $7500 more. It has more powerful and Fuel efficient powertrains than the Benz too. US will get small cars functoning in this manner like this and the Europeans will get the big Sedans. Its s much cheaper, and with a more diverse customer choice and option range, you can make more money.
Taking 20 years to build Hyundai into a Premier Luxury name is cheaper and will make tons more money, than a $2 Billion Dollar Mistake (That could be a $20 Billion Dollar Mistake if things get really bad on the gas price front) thein building another useless RWD Luxury Brand.
The changes to the rest of the brands will happen as well. Have some imagination. Most of you didnt see Bye bye: Saturn, Pontiac, SAAB, Chrysler (Almost), Hummer, Volvo (almost), etc… Years ago.
I saw it coming. Those brands are very irrelevant to the times we live in, and they couldnt be modified to fit that role either to be more modern. Like Beer, Potato Chips, etc… Cars have a Brand dying-off period too.
Guess what???!!!
THE TIME IS NOW!!!!!
January 14th, 2010 at 9:26 am
Kit wrote:
“I think Bentley has some REALLY COOL CARS.”
The GT was a huge success, largely because it wa spriced right, ie, very LOW for that segment. Same for its 4 door version later. The initial sales bubble has burst, though.
” VW, IMHO, has done a lot better job with Bentley than BMW has with Rolls Royce.”
Rolls under BMW may have produced a very ugly (het truly huge and very expensive at well over $350,000) Phantom, but it was a HUGE sales success. Rolls does NOT compete with Bentley, it is well above it in price, UNTIL a few months ago when bentley unveiled the MULSANNE which is a large Phantom fighter.
Rolls competed with MAYBACH, and it TROUNCED it. All the respurces and pedigree of Mercedes were not enough. Maybach sold a trickle, a joke really, several times less cars than the very exclusive Rolls. So, BMW 1, MErc 0, I hate to say.
January 14th, 2010 at 9:28 am
PS if you want bentley substance without the badge, get a VW PHAETON! They were built on the same assembly line in that glass walled factory in Dresden. You save more than half the price vs the bentley Continental sedan. And a used Phaeton is the only one you can buy now, save even more..
January 14th, 2010 at 9:30 am
“Denis Says:
January 13th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
If Cadillac truly wants the XTS to be a flag ship car then it better be RWD with available V-8 power.”
Yes. That old Northstar V8 with its 275-300 HP was a ROCKET and back then in the 90s few luxury imports made more power.
“You won’t fool Audi,BMW and Merc owners by disguising a FWD Buick/Impala in Cadillac skin with AWD and a $50K-$65K price. ”
Exactly. And you ALSO need to make your flagship a car WITH some rear room, the wheelbase needs to be longer by more than a whole FOOT, from 111 ” to 126″, to keep up with the “L” S-class or 7 or A8
January 14th, 2010 at 9:34 am
“Id think about getting a Maserrati Quatroporte if I wanted a sedan that cost more than a House”
The Q-porte costs more only than the cheapest CONDOS. it is not nearly as high as the price of any new house, even a tiny one. It is in fact much cheaper than such mainstream cars as the top end Merc and BMW v12 sedans.
AND if you get a Q-porte, good luck! LEMONS, true lemons, are not uncommon. if you get one of them, the dealer will exchange it for a new one. HAppened to a business school colleague and old friend that has a knack to lease or buy unreliable POS such as the Jag XJ… and kept doing it by gettign the Q-porte next. SOme people never learn.
January 14th, 2010 at 9:52 am
The Bentleys that I like are the totally impractical ones that don’t compete with Rolls, like the Continental GT coupe. Some would disagree, but I think it is gorgeous, and the cabin even more so. It is a totally rediculous car, but that is part of the appeal.
January 14th, 2010 at 9:57 am
“# Kit Gerhart Says:
January 13th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Isn’t Chevy’s flagship Corvette?, Sort of?”
I’d say so. It is the priciest model (its top versions are far more expensive than the most expensive Suburban or Silverado, and close to the luxury top imports.
But Chevy is not in the luxury car business. IN a way, Cadillac is Chevy’s flagship.
And note that Corvette usually prefers to advertise as just the Corvette and no tthe Chevy Corvette. (to appear more exclusive and upscale?)
January 14th, 2010 at 9:58 am
But the most “important” chevy is probably a toss among the Cobalt-Cruze, Malibu and Impala, its top 3 selling cars, and the Silverado on the truck side, as of today.
January 14th, 2010 at 10:22 am
“# Pedro Fernandez Says:
January 13th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Please tell me if I’m wrong, but recent history shows that when a car maker builds something TOO expensive for their brand image, they fail, I can think of the Maybach and Phaeton both very nice cars indeed, but if you got the bread for a Maybach you get a Bentley/Rolls ”
Correct. the above two examples clearly failed. In other cases, a maker will make a “halo” car that he knows will not make any profits, but it is still a good idea to make it so the other buyers that buy the cheaper models can always brag that they have the same DNA as that Halo car.
“or in the Phaeton range you go with Merc S or BMW 7.”
Yes, in the US especially, who would buy a $70k-$90k VW Phaeton, and an obese 5,000lb one at that, when one can buy its aluminum, Audi twin for the same price and have almost 1,000 lbs less weigth and better pefrormance and MPG.
” That’s why I think the Panamera will fail”
The Panamera is a totally different example and so fat it is doing GREAT< they already made over 10,000 copies to satisfy the HUGE demand. Porsche is MORE expensive and exclusive than merc and BMW, NOT much LESS, as is VW! And there are enough wealthy people who can afford a Porsche who want to carry 4 people from time to time, so the panamera is guaranteed to succeed. After all, if the ugly-ass Cayenne, which is only a VW Touareg clone, was so successful, one can only think that the panamera, which is a TRUE porsche with NO VW clones, and looks far more than a 911 than a breadvan on stilts cayenne, will be far more successful than the Cayenne!
" and Ford is not selling many Tauruses."
Ford never planned to sell many, their production schedule is only 100,000 instead of the 400,000 of the old taurus of the 80s. BUT the SHO, which is even more expensive, is sold out, very successful!
" By the way, where is Chevy’s flagship? They desperately need a better Impala."
See post 55 above
January 14th, 2010 at 10:26 am
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/daimler-back-from-the-brink-saved-by-china/#more-341786
Which is the world’s largest market for the S-class?
a. The US
b. Germany
c. Japan
d. Saudi Arabia
e. REd China
SURPRISE!!!!!! it is e. RED CHINA!
They even use the S-class as a police cruiser!!! (See photo in link)
January 14th, 2010 at 10:36 am
Porsche must have the highest brand loyalty of any car company around. That is the only thing that could explain the success of the truly mediocre, grossly overweight Cayenne. The Porschephiles who wanted a truck just HAD to have the one with the Porsche name plate.
January 14th, 2010 at 11:20 am
Please, enough about flag ships. We’ve beaten that poor horse to death. Thanks Nick Stevens for the discertations about the car biz. What a windbag you are. You must be a short guy.
January 15th, 2010 at 12:43 am
Nick, Im talking a regular Plain Jane house.