Episode 306 – UAW Resort For Sale, Marchionne Gets Heckled, BYD Aims Big

January 14th, 2010 at 12:00pm

Runtime 7:19

The UAW will sell its 1,000-acre resort known as Black Lake. Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne gets heckled at the World Congress. BYD plans to become the world’s largest automaker by 2025. All that and more, plus John answers viewer questions about Cadillac and Ford in this week’s “You Said It!” segment.

Transcript and Story Links after the jump . . .

Here are today’s top headlines. The UAW will sell Black Lake. Marchionne gets heckled at the World Congress. And BYD sets out to conquer the world.

Up next, we’ll be back with the news behind the headlines.

This is Autoline Daily for Thursday, January 14, 2010. And now, the news.

The website 2point6billion.com reports that BYD says it will offer an electric car in California THIS YEAR, making it the first Chinese automaker to sell vehicles in the U.S. The company’s battery-powered e6 supposedly offers a 205-mile range with a top speed of 87 miles an hour. We’ll have to see if it can meet strict U.S. safety standards. In related news, Gasgoo reports that the company announced it plans to become the largest automaker in China by 2015 and the world’s largest by 2025. It has a LONG way to go to meet those ambitious goals. Last year it only sold 450,000 cars.

The UAW is going to sell its resort. The Detroit News reports that to cut costs, the union will sell its 1,000-acre resort known as Black Lake. It lost $23 million over the last five years and the UAW had to borrow money to keep it going. The union used it for training, golfing, and conferences. And it is even the site where the ashes of Walter Reuther, the famous labor leader, are kept.

Automotive News magazine may have to hire additional security for its World Congress. Yesterday, two hecklers confronted Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne as he spoke at the conference. WWJ is reporting that one man shouted “shame on you” in Italian, presumably for Fiat’s plan to close a plant in Sicily. Later, a woman jumped on stage saying her mother died because of a defective Chrysler product. In his speech, Marchionne also predicted only six automakers would survive worldwide, and Fiat-Chrysler would be one of them.

GM will stop Hummer production beginning next week. According to the AP, no more Hummers will be built until its sale to Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery is completed. GM says there is plenty of inventory to keep dealers stocked during the sale. Since Tengzhong is not an established manufacturing company, the deal still needs approval from the Chinese government and GM’s president of China says he is still optimistic that will happen.

Russian automaker GAZ says its seeking a foreign partner in order to survive the year. According to Bloomberg, CEO Bo Andersson says GAZ’s technology is outdated and it needs a partner to boost production and sales. Last year, the company built 90,000 vehicles compared with 285,000 in 2007.

The Pontiac G8 may be long gone in the U.S., but its spirit lives on in Australia. Four months ago GM started slapping the car’s twin-grille front fascia on Holden Commodores to create a special-edition model. The company was only supposed to do this until it ran out of parts, but now Autoblog reports that the body kit – a $1,000 option down under – was so popular that it’s being offered indefinitely. It’s also reported that dealers are ordering “Pontiac” and “G8” badges to help buyers complete the transformation. The bumper fits on the Commodore, Ute and Sportwagon models.

Coming up next, I respond to you, we’ll be back right after this.

It’s time for You said it. Here’s my chance to answer some of your letters.

Nick Stevens saw our report on the Cadillac XTS concept car and wrote in to say, “Do you really believe what you are saying, that this mid-size Caddy with a V-6 and a rather pitifully short wheelbase of 111 inches is a ‘flagship’? Give me a break!”

Sorry Nick. You’re right, a proper flagship should have a wheelbase over 120 inches long. But after looking at all those A- and B-class cars at the auto show, the XTS looked pretty big.

Kit Gerhart heard everyone gushing about Ford and says, “I think this Ford lovefest is going a little overboard. What do they have that’s so great? The Fusion is a good car, but so are Camry, Accord, Malibu, and more. Taurus/Sable are roomy, but nothing special. The Lincoln cars are just much more expensive versions of Fusion and Taurus. I could go on.”

Kit, I agree with you, the Ford mania is going a little bit overboard. Don’t get me wrong, I’m real impressed with Ford’s progress. But it’s not quite there yet, especially with Lincoln. Until Lincoln gets its own proper stand-alone platforms, it will never catch Mercedes, BMW or Audi.

And ziggyzedly reported in from Down Under to say, “Hi John, here in Australia it has been reported that our local-designed and -made Ford Falcon might be axed, and a global, large rear-drive platform is to be made elsewhere. Can you find out any more to this?”

No ziggyzedly, I haven’t heard anything yet, but I’ll keep my eyes and ears open and you’ll be the first to know when I learn anything.

Dcars sent this in, “I have a question.  Does Jim Hall ever breathe in when he’s talking?”

No dcars, Jim doesn’t breathe at all. You see, he’s not from planet Earth, and he gets all his nourishment from gamma rays directed from deep space. Scientists think those rays are coming from galaxy known as Centaurus A.

Don’t forget to join us tonight for Autoline After Hours when our guest will be Don Runkle, long-time enthusiast, former executive at GM and Delphi, and now leading an effort to come out with a radically new type of engine. That’s tonight at 7 p.m. Eastern Time, for the most honest insight and commentary in the business.

And that’s it for today’s top news in the global automotive industry. Thanks for watching, we’ll see you tomorrow.

Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog, The Auto Channel, Car Chat, WardsAuto.com and WWJ Newsradio 950

36 Comments to “Episode 306 – UAW Resort For Sale, Marchionne Gets Heckled, BYD Aims Big”

  1. dcars Says:

    Hi John,
    In response to the Jim Hall answer….. that was great! Thanks, it made my day. Jim certainly has a lot to say.
    Love your show.

  2. Nick Stevens Says:

    It bugs me when Jim refuses to explain the meaning of his company’s name “2953 analytics or whatever. I guessed it is from 1953X2, maybe Jim and the wife were both born in that year. I am not sure about that, but I hate meaningless names, so I had to find an explanation.

  3. Pedro Fernandez Says:

    Ford gushing indeed, is it just a coincidence then that both Ford vehicles won the best of the year award? I don’t think so.

  4. Nick Stevens Says:

    If John will forgive me, I do not believe all these awards and the Employee of the month stiff is worth diddly squat.

    The rewards will be in the annual sales figures, and, more importantly, in the PROFITS and the increase in market share. And the consumer, not some journalists in the Detroit area, with various levels of automotive literacy, will be the judge.

  5. Nick Stevens Says:

    stuff, not… stiff!

  6. Bruce Hubbard Says:

    What the heck is the matter with offering diesels from Ford in USA? Billy says no? They are the number two seller of diesels in Europe. The Peugeot PSA engines are superb.

    Even at the shoiw this week SUBARU told me that they will have the BOXER diesel in USA soon.
    Australia wants all they can get and Director of the Board of Subaru Masatsugu (MAT) Nagato said Australia is demanding as many of the Boxers diesels engines as they can get. Future looks bright fro their QUIET and clean diesel BOXER engine.

    HONDA held off and said no way for a few years (BECAUSE JAPAN wants Hybrid). I just drobe 17 of the worlds finest diesels. Mini got 77 mpg! CRV was way over 50. Audi, BMW X5 and the ML 320 were superb. Longevity of the engines makes up for fuel cost difference.

    Look what VW is doing. No more GAS for some of their products ..just diesel. Then the Toureg will be all diesel. No gas. 70% of diesel buyers never go back to gasoline except for the HOT ROD buyers.

    GM had a wonderful engine for dielsels. Imagine the millions they spent for this and the products is shelved somewhere?

    Bruce Hubbard

  7. Nick Stevens Says:

    Worried about rising gas prices? You can neutralize them if you have the discipline to drive slower.

    Consumer reports published accurate data for Highway MPG at 75, 65 and 55 MPH respectively, for some models. if you can live with the cheap interior of the Honda Insight, you can get real 50+ MPG at 55. Unfortunately no prius, civic or corolla data are given:

    For each model, MPG at 75, 65 and 55 MPH follow:

    Acura TSX 2.4 lt 4: 30.7, 35.5, 39.9

    Insight 1.4 lt 4 Hybrid: 36.5, 44.8, 51.9!

    Lexus RX 350: 23, 27.4, 30.9

    Mercury Mountaineer (Explorer clone) v8: 17.8, 21.2, 23.8

    Camry 4-cyl: 29.8, 34.9, 40.3

    Rav4 2.5 lt 4: 25.9, 29.3, 34.6 (!)

    Yaris 1.5 lt 4: 34, 37.9, 42.5

  8. Bruce Hubbard Says:

    John

    You were probably at the event for Wards BEST TEN engines.

    BOSCH was involved in four of the engines development.

    Audi 2.0 L TFSI 4 cylinder won.
    BMW’s 3.0 liter DOHC Inline SIx Turbo Diesel WON!!!!!
    Volkswagens 2 Liter DOHC Turbo diesel won on Jetta Sport Wagon!

    Get serious Bill Ford and Gm and Fiat get them over here. FIAT has DIESELS now and bring them over !! WHEN they have not stated.

    Turbo Diesels and HYBRIDS also have a future.

    Reason for second e mail is I forgot how many DIESEL engines this year won awards!

    NOW that VW has 49.5% of PORSCHE they may even look into the potential. NOT yet according to my sources.

  9. Salvador G. Says:

    I think you people are forgetting that Ford won the ‘North AMERICAN” car and truck awards, not the International awards.

  10. LEX Says:

    John,

    The Ford Mania has become too much. Their are still many of us who owned a Ford and found out that F-O-R-D meant: Found On Road Dead! Now if FORD had “real guts” it would back their vehicles with the same warranty as Hyundai.
    If Ford did that, their vehicles would be selling like hotcakes!

    Every GM Executive you interviewed at the Auto Show appeared to have come out of the pages of GQ magazine. Where are the real Car Guys who get their hands dirty and brake their nuckles under the hood? Government Motors needs Jay Leno as a spokeman who can breathe enthusiasm and Life back into GM!

    Please ask Mr. Delorenzo what he thinks of these two phrases / sloguns for the Chevrolet Brand: “Chevrolet is Here to Stay!” or “See the World Today in your Chevrolet”. I can remember when Chevy used to have Dinah Shore sing “See the USA in your Chevrolet” as it’s company slogun. Now that Chevrolet is a Global Brand maybe they would consider using the one I am proposing. Please make sure they put a check into the mail for me.

    Jim Hall of 2953 Analytics has so much information stored in his head that all his hair burned off from it getting overheated. Jim Hall you are the BEST!

    What happen to David Welch? Did Bloomberg forbid him from appearing on AAH?

    John please stop rubbing salt into Roger Penske’s “Smart” wound, or he will never agree to appear on AAH. I still believe their is a market for the Smart. Maybe the rural US Mail Carriers can use them to deliver the mail as they retire those wore out Gumman Postal Vehicles.

    Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne better be careful because remember what recently happened to the Italian Prime Minister. Consumers today are looking for real value in what they spend their hard earned money on. If Sergio thinks that he can take a Fiat or Lancia and slap a Chrysler or Dodge emblem, and put it into a US showroom and it will sell he is sadly mistaken!
    FIAT like FORD has another meaning “Fix It Again Tony”! Americans need jobs and customers want great product so I hope Sergio can get the rubber to meet the road.

  11. Nick Stevens Says:

    LEX,

    What about “it is the product stupid!” don’t you understand?

    The “Dumb” is an unacceptable product

    1. It is WAY overpriced for what little it offers,

    2. It gets ATROCIOUSLY LOW MPG given its TINY size and even TINIER Engine. Unfortunately the Smart DIESEL with its alleged 70 MPG (More like 55) is NOT imported!

    3. Most important, it has a TERRIBLE Transmission that has been Thumbs downed by everyone who drove it!

    The Almighty CONSUMERS have spoken and nobody buys the POS any more. WHY are you blaming JOHN for HONESTLY pointing out its faults?

    I have no expectation that fanatics like you will ever see the light.

    But you do not even have the COMMON SENSE to realize that a POS toy vehicle that lost money 10 years in a ROW in EUROPE, despite the $6-$8 gas there, and despite the other favorable conditions there (marrow streets, tight parking spots!).

    Do you have the common sense to realize that if the “Dumb” did not make it under such very favorabel conditions in Europe, it has ZERO chance of ever making it in the USA????

  12. Nick Stevens Says:

    Even if gas prices go back to $4 and $4.50, the “Dumb” will still not sell.

    because consumers have a TON of far better, HIGHER MPG, 5-seater, Hybrid, Diesel or non-hybrid gas alternatives!

    Such as:

    Civic, Fit, Corolla, yaris, Versa, Sentra, Aveo, Jetta and Golf DIESEL, and above all the Almighty 50++ MPG 5-seater REAL car PRIUS!

  13. Chuck Grenci Says:

    It will be interesting to see what Don Runkle has to say tonight on AAH. A new engine (or any new powerplant) is always a tough sell but it should be interesting to see what he has to offer. The Sterling, Wankel and turbine (among others) looked pretty good on paper but just didn’t have the ‘legs’ to make an important impact. Always willing to listen to new ideas though.

  14. Nick Stevens Says:

    I’d like to see more details on that CA E-small minivan BYD is trying to sell in CA by year’s end. The 200km or so range should be attainable in CA’s mild and warm climate. The configuration is practical, with max interior room and a tasteful exterior design.

    The van may have quality and fit and finish glitches, but so did the orignal Hyundai Excel in 89 or so.

    Do not dismiss the Chinese makers, and BYD in particular. Warren Buffet is a big fan of its CEO and has invested billions in it.

    In fact, for this class of very costly electrics, maybe making them in China is the only hope of being able to sell them at a reasonable price and not a ludicrous one.

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’d like to see that 75, 65, 55 data on a Golf/Jetta TDI. It should get close to 60mpg at 55mph.

  16. Jeff Mohr Says:

    Enjoy reading these informative comments—especially the ones without endless negativity

  17. c. wolf Says:

    I believe Ford does deserve its rewards. For the price,maintainace and quality, there is no comparable auto that leaps ahead. I,for one, don’t see many on the side of the road. Of my many Fords, I have never incurred costly repairs. and I drive 55K/yr and 200/250K mi. before replacement. Break rotors were problematic, but, my new Milan’s are holding up much better.
    I,too, am fond of many foreign cars,but I am one who couldn’t buy anything but built in the U.S and, preferably , UAW.
    Nick Stevens: I really like BMW’s,too, but to feel that driving experience is just too costly to buy and maintain. From what I gather,your driving distance is not that far. So how could you ever posssibly maximize your cars potential going from stop light to stop light or travel expressways much beyond the speed limit?
    You are either a real car nut or just a kid, full of balogna by copying info from the net and calling it self intelect.

  18. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Why cant these makes make cars that get 55 MPH mileage at 75 MPH? Oh that’s right they are starting to crank cars like that out.

    I dont know but in my personal experience with Hyundais I use more gas at 55 than I do at 60-75, and Highway Mileage as advertised is understated by 2-3 MPG while City Mileage as advertised is Overstated by 2-5 MPG. My Accent was advertised for 28/37 when I got it I feel like I get more like 23/40 under normal use. Since I use the highway a lot since I work 60 miles from Home, its fantastic. However, when I drive in the city the car sucks gas.

  19. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    BYD is banking big on Hybrids, but if they want to make some real bucks they need a few Plain gas engines in the mix as well.

    I think it would be smart if they came to the US with a lineup of 3 cars and 1 truck.

    Subcompact=give it no less than 90HP and 50 MPG and price it at $7500.

    F3DM=Redesign the car or do a few tweaks to the car. Add a Gas only version, and price that at $9900. Sell the Hybrid version for $13K.

    Midsized Sedan= 4cyl/V6 price it at $11K to start. Hybrid at $17K.

    They wouldnt sell like hotcakes, but they will sell enough to get them started, and to make their hybrid business Easier, Cheaper to Buy, and cheaper to run.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The way to get fuel economy at high speed is to have an efficient power train and low aerodynamic drag. A stock VW TDI in a low-drag Prius body, geared a little taller than in a Golf/Jetta, should get at least 60 MPG at 75 MPH.

  21. Andy S Says:

    Finally I can agree with something Nick said. The smart is the “Dumb”. And, I know the secret behind Jim Hall’s 2953, but I am not telling either!!!!!

    With regard to the recent praise of Ford, that praise comes from independent 3rd parties, including Consumer Reports. While I believe the praise is well-earned, we need to keep in perspective that newspapers, radio, TV and magazines are in the business to make money. As such, they make the “bad” seem much worse, and the “good” much better (dare I say sensationalize”!?!?!?).

  22. LEX Says:

    Hey Nick Stevens,

    My comments and suggestion regarding the Smart are “Common Sense” solutions. It is just my opinion in an effort to suggest alternative uses for a vehicle which is obviously bad business decision by Roger Penske from becoming a Total Loss! Your Ranting does not aid in the problem solving process. Why don’t you start suggesting some idea’s that can improve the automotive industry or maybe just a specific product. Collaboration and the Exchange of ideas is where you should focus your abundant energy.

    You must have alot of time on your hands, so put it to some good use.

    Your suggestion that the only way BYD can be profitable is by building their vehicles over in China may be good for the Chinese but what about all the unemployed Americans who once worked in the US Auto Industry? If they don’t have jobs because all the US manufacturing jobs when to China would you buy their product? I say – Hell No! The Asian Auto Manufacturers who build US Plants and employ US labor and part suppliers have been very sucessful in North American Market.
    The Chinese have to do the same. Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and Nissan have all demonstrated their comittment to establishing Plants and Bases of operation in North America. The Chinese will have to do the same and also prove that their products are worth buying not only because they are cheaper that the competiton.

    Keep Americans Working! Stop sending American jobs overseas. Buy Products manufactured and built in the USA.

  23. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Id throw a shoe at Marchionne for his criminal attempts at dumping these POS products on us.

  24. Nick Stevens Says:

    Lex,

    Your posts are neither common sense NOR do they offer ANY practical, cost effective solutions. You are obsessed with the DUMB, a toy car with terrible transmission and terrible fuel economy that is not even BUILT here. Spare me. TYou are not a serious poster. You belong to other, auto-illiterate forums, not this group.

    And PS nobody is buying the “Dumb”. Look at the other posters. Even if they disagree with me on everything else, they DO agree that the “Dumb” is a DOG beyond any hope.

  25. Nick Stevens Says:

    “# Kit Gerhart Says:
    January 14th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    The way to get fuel economy at high speed is to have an efficient power train and low aerodynamic drag.”

    Most of the 200,000,000 drivers in the US already own a vehicle, with a given powertrain and a given body. Driving slower, from 75 to 55, is the only way they have towards SERIOUS MPG increase, as the CR data show. And it will not cost them a penny, it will actually make them $.

    But the above CR suggestions are mainly for those that whine and bitch about high gas prices, there are plenty of us that never do, do not drive a ton of miles, and could easily afford twice the gas price.

    In fact, I am advocating a HUGE tax on gas as a far better way towards a slender, fuel efficient fleet, and most economists are with me. CAFE has been largely a joke. Only makers like Merc and BMW, who do not have high mpg low-cost divisions in their companies, will be forced to import the smaller gas and ma ny diesel engines to meet the New CAFE standards.

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Nick says:

    “In fact, I am advocating a HUGE tax on gas as a far better way towards a slender, fuel efficient fleet, and most economists are with me.”

    I’m with you too. With very expensive fuel, car companies would start building my dream “highway cruiser,” a low-drag hatchback body powered by a smallish diesel.

  27. Nick Stevens Says:

    Kit: I agree. I Like your concept hatch with the small diesel. This should be quite good around town, perhaps more than on the highway, because of its small size, weight and short wheelbase. To remedy the last thing, the wheels should really be pushed to the four conrners. It does not have to be a hybrid, but it should have the much less expensive brake energy regeneration and of course the start-stop system.

    If everybody drove such small hatches, I’d drive one too. But as long as the roads are still filled with giant breadvans on stilts SUVs, the need for both active and passive safety will make me keep driving s-class or equivalents with plenty of power. Thankfully used car prices are still huge bargains.

  28. Nick Stevens Says:

    After hearing maybe 100 times from H-S how great his “Accent” is, I checked out its stats. it is a very tiny vehicle, 2,400 lbs or so, less than 160″ long, 105 or so HP and torque. I remember my old 4-door Pontiac 2000, it had also 2,400 lbs and about 102 lbft torque (but only 84 HP), but it was WAY longer than the Accent. However, the Accent is much taller at about 58″ vs the 53 or so for the old car.

    The major problem with the accent is that it should really be a HATCH, not a coupe, since its very short length makes it tiny inside in any config other than a hatch.

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The Accent two door, or 3-door IS a hatch, but as you say, it’s small, and far from a class leader except for the low price in base trim.

  30. Pedro Fernandez Says:

    On last night’s AAH I asked the panelists if making better vehicles was enough to get the Detroit 3 out of their decline, they all answered that quality was not an issue anymore, basically saying all are created equal. To that I say BS! GM and Ford have not yet proven that their new vehicle will stand the test of time and mileage. Indeed they’re much improved, specially the new models, and their initial quality has improved quite a lot, but what will it be 5 years down the road, and if they’re so confident about the new stuff, put your money where your mouth is and increase the bumper to bumper warranty to at least 5 or 6 years at least as long as you’re paying for the damn thing. In my opinion they still need to prove themselves. Most people I talk to, still would buy a foreign brand over an American one. Perception takes a long time to change.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It’s good for Hyundai that they didn’t sell all that many of those early accents, or they wouldn’t be making the progress they are making in establishing a good reputation. A friend at work had one of those early cars which was an unmitigated lemon. He won’t be buying another Hyundai any time soon.

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    LEX said:

    “John please stop rubbing salt into Roger Penske’s “Smart” wound, or he will never agree to appear on AAH. I still believe their is a market for the Smart. Maybe the rural US Mail Carriers can use them to deliver the mail as they retire those wore out Gumman Postal Vehicles.”

    You need some storage space to deliver mail, and the smart doesn’t have it.

    The thing that could save the smart, AS A LOW-VOLUME “CULT” CAR AND NOTHING MORE, would be a decent transmission. The interior of the smart is bright and attractive, and the car is even kind of fun to drive, except for that horrid tranmission. A smart would do everything I normally do with my MINI, carry one or two people, and a small amount of stuff. Based on Consumer Reports tests, the smart would get 39 MPG under conditions that my manual transmission MINI gets 30. No, I’m not saying a smart with a decent transmission would compete with MINI or any other “normal” car, but there would be a lot bigger market than there is now. With a better transmission, the smart would do better in Europe too, but would always be a low-volume cult car for those with more than one vehicle.

    All this said, I doubt that smart will be around much longer, in America or Europe, because there is no indication that I’ve found that they ever intend to put a decent transmission in the car.

  33. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Kit I never called the car the class leader, but its one of the leaders. Its second place in sales, its 3rd in power behind Versa, MINI new Fit (Tied). Its tied with MINI manual for best fuel Economy in the segment. Its 1st in reliability in the class. It has the largest interior volume. Its a good contender. Plus, its getting replaced by this time next year, so its no big deal if we arent the undisputed leader right now.

    It will be the undisputed leader in the class soon, just say I spy too. Though I think the MINI still might have the most upmarket interior the class.

    Also, on the early Accents, most of them were decent, but I will admit some of them were unmitigated lemons.

    Ford is still not being smart, they are advertisng the Fiesta as the Class Leader with only 40 MPG, When 90% of the product in that segment is about to be replaced and on the lots the same time as Fiesta.

    Nick, That’s 110 HP and 106 TQ by the way. The right intake and exhaust will quickly bring it to about 130 HP. About ~10 HP per upgrade. In a car that size it packs a nice litle punch. There are guys who put turbos on them that can push it to as much as 200 HP.

    The Mitsubishi Colt they are about to bring over Uses the last gen Accent engine that gets 105 HP and 105 TQ.

    Nick hatch was a dirty word at Hyundai up until a few years ago, but you see more places where they call it a hatch now. I hope they keep the height about 58 inches too for the next one. Im 6ft 2 and it gives me headroom. They could have worked on rear head room, however.

    I didnt like 3 door hatches. I was going to buy the sedan, but at the dealerhip I sat in the back and the salesman who is the same height sat in front of me. There was nice room for the both of us. That sold me on the car, as the Sedan has miniscule rear seating, not fit for an average American child, much less adult.

    Nick, on the 2000 the Excel at that time had only half of the Accents HP today, thats 30 less HP than 2000. The modern equivalent of the 2000=G3 has less power than Accent.

    Thats how far Hyundai has come ahead.

  34. FrankCanada Says:

    In a country where Toyota slaps a fancy L on crappy Toyotas, & people pay premium prices for a made up name, there are worse things Fiat could do to Chrysler then rebadging Fiats & Lancias. At least those are proper cars, ask any Petrolhead. As for Smoking Hyundai, Marchionne dumping POS? As in Point of Sales? Why would you throw a shoe at him? And Hyundai pony, that they sold to welfare people in canada, now that sir, is in the dictionary as the meaning of Piece of Shit. Go drive your walmart imitation Mercedes benz rip-off genesis, and hold your head up high.

  35. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Frank what do you drive, you sound like a BMW asshole?

  36. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    FIATs and lancias are Junk.

    Why is it that Hyundai Accent is the most reliable car in its class in Europe, and your precious FIAT Grand Punto`Nee Punto is at the very bottom of the list?

    At least Lexus, Hyundai, Toyota, KIA, make real cars. I hate Toyota and Lexus, but Id rather drive one than Your Precious FIAT POSs.

    Crapsler Lover!!