AD #3176 – Nissan To Make Old Parts Without Dies; Honda Invents New Airbag; EVs Could Cost People Their Jobs

October 6th, 2021 at 11:42am

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Listen to “AD #3176 – Nissan To Make Old Parts Without Dies; Honda Invents New Airbag; EVs Could Cost People Their Jobs” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 7:40

0:07 IIHS Finds Big Improvement in Car-To-SUV Crashes
1:14 Nissan To Make Old Parts Without Dies
3:21 EVs Could Cost People Their Jobs

4:24 OEMs Unlikely to Make EV Motors In-House
5:36 Honda Invents New Airbag
6:33 Audi Develops Digital OLEDs

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27 Comments to “AD #3176 – Nissan To Make Old Parts Without Dies; Honda Invents New Airbag; EVs Could Cost People Their Jobs”

  1. MJB Says:

    Sean, given the outlook for EV motors that you give here (being outsourced instead of produced in-house), it sounds like carmakers will then be able to focus a lot more dollars and design on good-ole “coach building”. Exciting times to be in automotive design and engineering, for sure!

  2. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Isn’t the car/SUV death ratio change mostly the result of “average” SUVs being smaller, as they dominate the market? Several years ago, SUVs were mostly Suburbans, O.J. Broncos, etc. and there were a lot more actual small cars. Now, Rav4 and smaller SUVs are probably the majority.

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    2 cont. Meanwhile, the pickup trucks just keep getting bigger, and more of a hazard to those who share the road with them.

  4. Dave Says:

    One EV maker has a lot of aluminum casting for its skateboard much more than 80lb and is going to be a lot more than that, before the end of the year as it gets more large casting parts; which goes to prove even more so the point that there will be even fewer jobs as better design makes the building of cars more efficient

  5. Danny T Says:

    #3 if they pay the license plate fees and have insurance they have as much right on the road as small little electric vehicles, everyone doesn’t want the same vehicles to drive as certain people do. If some people have there way we will be riding bicycles and walking.

  6. wmb Says:

    Are the OEMs again leaning toward OUTSOURCING another major component to a supplier, that being electric motors! Has the chip shortage taught them nothing! I get it that with all the automakers around the world and their need to role their vehicles on tires, there has never been a tire shortage! This is despite the fact that there are fewer tire companies around the world, then they are automakers. Having said that, there was the Takata airbag situation that touched just about every automaker around the world, because most of them, in one way or another use that air bag! As mentioned in today’s report, automakers are going to be saving billions because of the fewer components that are required for an electric vehicles. Are OEMs so determined to send moore of that money to the top Executives and CEOs, that they will hand off these important aspects of their electric vehicles, to suppliers and only hope for the best? Is it really worth the risk? Will it really cost them that much to build them themselves, for, as was said, they have few parts compared to and ICE?! Look at GM and their Bolt’s electrical Hardware! They had to stop selling the vehicles, because of a problem with the battery packs assembled by A supplier! What is the saying, if you don’t consider the past, you are doomed to repeat it!

  7. GM Veteran Says:

    I’m not so sure about the generic EV motor concept. GM has already started branding their batteries and motors using the Ultium name. And Lucid is claiming their proprietary technology makes their EVs the most efficient on the market.

    I am sure the supplier community would love to own electric motor manufacturing but I think some OEMs will keep it in-house to claim unique advantages and native compatibility with their software and batteries. I think its too early to call this one.

  8. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 All true, but the fact remains that as pickups get bigger, they become even more of a hazard to other road users. Maybe insurance for the 6000 pound trucks is too cheap.

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    6 Maybe the companies now making starter motors and alternators will just switch over to making motors for EVs. Aren’t there only about 3 or 4 companies making starter motors?

  10. Rey Says:

    @3:21legacy auto out sourcing traction motors and whole drivetrains? Nothing new here, as Sandy Munro has said in his show, Munro Live, most automakers have become assemblers, they buy components from OEMs and put them together,current chip shortage impacting them hard enough that they can’t put their vehicles together for lack of parts.
    VWs CEO now says they have to work harder and redo Wolfsburg because it takes 3 times as much time to build BEVs compared to some other BEV factories, wonder who that is, I do know the XPeng x5 is very affordable in China.
    And the Tesla mod 3 and mod Y is almost sold out into the end of the year , even as they are producing them like cookies,by the way those Tesla Mega Cast pieces are now being produced for front and back ends of the mod Y, John McElroy might be right, legacy auto might have to adopt Megacast to compete in the future, another loss of jobs there.

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    10 In the 1920s, when there were hundreds of car companies, most of them bought engines from Continental and Lycoming. The few car companies that have survived now make their own engines, which partly define the brand, especially with car enthusiasts. Electric motors are not that way. They do not change the “character” of a car. Only the throttle mapping and electronic gadgetry has much effect on how an electric powertrain works. EV motors will soon become a commodity product. I’d predict that Borg-Warner, Bosch, Denso and a couple other will be supplying a majority of EV motors within 5 years.

  12. Rey Says:

    #7 GM vet , GM Bolt was “LG Inside” one reason it has been recalled.
    With Tesla, Panasonic supplies the bare cells Tesla puts the whole battery pack and BMS together that control , cool and fuses that make the cells isolate themselves in the event of a thermal runaway, a loss of a few cells does not render the pack a fire hazard.

  13. Rey Says:

    #11 Kit, not sure the cost of btraction motors and their electronics and the inverters, but Tesla margins are around 18% to 25% per car, some say close to 30%,and they just raised the prices as of yesterday, but even then all are sold out till 2022,and in NA at least for the mod Y till April 2022 anyway.
    FYI the Texas giga factory footprint is nearly a mile long and 3 floor and some 4 floor levels ,a massive factory under one roof, with a minimum of 4 Megacast machines.
    Might be Elon Musk’s -” Machine that builds the Machine.
    As John McElroy says “wait ’till they start producing cars, beating BMWs 2 million output”. Sorry if I got the quote wrong,but you know what I mean.

  14. Rey Says:

    #11 I believe Magna is going to be making BEV traction Motors and they are one of the biggest OEMs , FYI, Magna was Mitsubishi Electrics landlord in Canada, at one point, I worked for Mitsu. in 1985-1987 Their office was right next door, in Markham ,Ontario .

  15. Rey Says:

    #11 I believe Magna is going to be making BEV traction Motors and they are one of the biggest OEMs , FYI, Magna was Mitsubishi Electrics landlord in Canada, at one point, I worked for Mitsu. in 1985-1987 Their office was right next door, in Markham ,Ontario .

  16. WineGeek Says:

    Thank you #6 wmb I wonder how dumb these executives are in Detroit? They should be producing chips in the USA already and building cars instead of cuttings production. Now they want to outsource electric motors of course they don’t remember that Tesla makes their own motors because they build a better motor than the cheap outsourced electric motors.

  17. Rey Says:

    #6 & #16 , don’t say that here, you will get crucified ,and ridiculed, legacy fans, and the commenters here say GM and Ford make the best moves & decisions.

  18. GM Veteran Says:

    17 – I don’t think that is the case. Most posters here call them as they see them. All companies make good and bad decisions. Except for Tesla and Mr. Musk in your opinion, I suppose. They seem to only make good decisions.

    12 – Thank goodness Tesla has never had any vehicle fires. Oh wait, aren’t they under federal investigation for that right now? And how many people have died using the Tesla AutoPilot equipment that is continually and irresponsibly overhyped by the company and its leader?

    The legacy automakers don’t make all bad decisions and Tesla’s track record isn’t flawless either. So, quit feeling so targeted. No one has it out for Tesla and you don’t need to defend them. Its just automotive news, Rey.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14,15 Yeah, Magna could be a big player in the commodity traction motor business.

    13 With the decline of unions, maybe more vertical integration could make sense, if the OEMs can achieve similar efficiency to traditional suppliers, and pay similarly. Maybe that’s what Ford has in mind with their planned “Rouge of the South.” I suppose they expect it to be non-union, being in Tennessee.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    16 As someone who worked in a OEM semiconductor fab for years, I can safely say that in today’s world, it does not make sense for car companies to make their own IC chips. With the help of a pandemic, the car companies certainly “blew it” regarding supply chain/ordering issues, but that doesn’t mean they should start making their own ICs. That is a very specialized business.

  21. GM Veteran Says:

    16, 20 – And, while the chip shortage gets all of the headlines, if there was no chip shortage there would still be large production cuts. There are many suppliers that are struggling to produce enough product to meet their contracts and are faced with raw material shortages of their own. Its just that the chip shortage is so severe that it is masking these other supply shortages. The car companies aren’t facing a chip shortage, its an across-the-board supply shortage that is affecting every part of their organizations.

  22. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    21) That is the absolute truth. If it wasn’t for the chip shortage, everyone would see that it is pretty ugly right now with shortages on everything. It isn’t just Christmas toys stuck off the coast of California in those cargo ships.

  23. Rey Says:

    #18 GM vet, You retired too early , GM needs yor help w the Dolt, at leasthelp them w the 50 ft parking restrictions , you can be the Jockey LOL, of that NHTSA fire investigation? Went nowhere, cleared, its in the news,
    GM can’t save itself if you threw them a rope, they’d use that rope to hang themselves.

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    23 Models S and X have a much higher non-crash fire rate than other competing vehicles. Go to near the end of the article.

    “Fires are less frequent in Teslas and other EVs vs. gas vehicles” https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1133254_fires-are-less-frequent-in-teslas-and-other-evs-vs-gas-vehicles

  25. wmb Says:

    #19.) Kit
    I’m not commenting to pick fights or to point fingers, for I truly believe where there is good competition, the consumer wins! It’s just the thought that local OEMs can’t “achieve similar efficiency” as start-ups and transport automakers, because they use union workers, is hard to except when top executives make millions. This takes me back to years ago, when there were reports of the quality issues at the Big Three, were as a result of lazy and intoxicated line workers! While there is NO excuse for that type of work behavior, it’s not the line workers that were responsible for poorly designed components, bad design and inferior quality materials. No one, I say ago, N ONE, should be paid for poorworkmanship and work ethic, period! At the same time, no one should be rewarded with better jobs and pay for bad decision making at the top either! During those dark days, there was enough blame to go around on both sides and they seem to have learned the hard way from their mistakes. What Hurts The Big 3 today, though, IMHO, is not the Union, but legacy* costs, which most of the transplants and the start-ups do not have! I understand that BEV tech is expensive right now, the trade off is that it will cost OEMs less to actually build them (few parts required, few people to assemble, yet higher transaction prices for each vehicle). I’m sure there are a few issues that they will need to work out, but in the end this is going to be good for the OEMs. The more that get into this space, the more competitive the market will be and the better it will be for consumer!

    * Legacy cost of The Big Three do not include the cost of health care, which is now covered by the Union. That being said, executive salaries are only increasing, many of whom indivial salaries are already in the millions.

  26. Bob Wilson Says:

    Nissan’s spare parts robot would be a great way to make concept or even low volume ‘halo’ cars. Combined with 3d printing driven by the CAD system(s), and voila, functioning concept cars that can actually provide useful, preproduction metrics.

    As for ‘commodity’ EV motors and parts, ask the Bolt owners going through a multi-billion dollar recall. They are so pleased … NOT!

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Commodity motors are not the issue with the Bolt.

    25 Don’t suppliers generally have lower pay and lesser benefits than OEMs, especially “legacy” OEMs? That is why I figured big escalation of vertical integration unlikely. I could be wrong.

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