AD #3184 – New EV Startup Is a Bit of a Mystery; Ford F-150 Tremor Impressions; Foxconn Reveals Three New EVs

October 18th, 2021 at 11:52am

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Listen to “AD #3184 – New EV Startup Is a Bit of a Mystery; Ford F-150 Tremor Impressions; Foxconn Reveals Three New EVs” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 10:22

0:08 Stellantis & LG Partner to Build Battery Plant in U.S.
0:36 Toyota Plans Battery Plant in U.S.
1:03 VW CEO Invites Elon Musk to Address Management
2:25 New EV Startup Is a Bit of a Mystery
3:29 Foxconn Reveals Three New EVs
5:17 Ford Now Building Mustang Mach-E in China
6:14 GM Starts Building Ultium Batteries in China
7:04 Ford F-150 Tremor Impressions

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36 Comments to “AD #3184 – New EV Startup Is a Bit of a Mystery; Ford F-150 Tremor Impressions; Foxconn Reveals Three New EVs”

  1. Lambo2015 Says:

    Foxconn must have extra money in their legal department to name their bus the Model T. Do they expect Ford will just let that slide?

  2. Lambo2015 Says:

    The Indi One looks to have some serious financial backing which makes me think it might be an attempt by Google to get in on the EV action. With onboard super computer and advanced software allows riders to capture content while on trips with the many interior and exterior cameras, live stream videos, and even shoot, edit and upload content to the cloud – all from inside the vehicle.
    I thought by the name it was from India but seems it is based out of Beverly Hills CA.
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/indi-ev-launches-revolutionary-indi-150000498.html

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    1 Ford let GM slide in using the name Citation, after Ford had used it as an Edsel model line, I think the top one.

  4. ArtG Says:

    Lambo, Ford registered “Model T” in 2017 for use with automobiles. So, I suppose they could sue but might not win, since it’s unlikely that anyone would confuse a car with a bus. Granted, they’re both vehicles. Beretta sued Chevrolet for use of the name on the Chevy Beretta in the 1980s. Although no one would confuse a car with a pistol, GM donated $500G to the Beretta Cancer Foundation and was allowed to continue to use the name with a disclaimer. Car & Driver even published a parody test between a Beretta pistol and a Chevy Beretta. Maybe a similar type arrangement could be made here.

  5. Kit Gerhart Says:

    4 I remember the Beretta thing. I heard that Chevy gave Beretta a car, and Beretta gave Chevy a pistol.

  6. Lambo2015 Says:

    4 Not that agree with being able to trademark letters. And especially from a model over 100 years ago, but I just wonder if Ford will be okay with it. Point was with all the other possibilities available why Foxconn would even risk a potential legality going with that name just seems silly. Makes me wonder if the letter T has some significant meaning.

  7. GM Veteran Says:

    So it looks like the brand name for Foxconn vehicles will be Foxtron, and their logo looks quite a bit like the Faraday Future logo turned 90 degrees to the left. Perhaps by the time these vehicles are available to sell they will have different names.

  8. GM Veteran Says:

    Another reason Ford may have decided to build the Mach-E in China is that they had excess build capacity. They invested heavily there in assembly plants and initially had good sales volume. Then their sales faltered pretty seriously. With the other reasons already discussed, having available build capacity may have made that an easy decision.

  9. Albemarle Says:

    Sean, you do a great job and the program is excellent. Would you please remember to tell us the standard that the EV range is tested under.

    Even better, please take a moment when editing the piece and just translate the range to EPA. That would be a great service to your listeners as EPA range has been shown to be the most realistic.

    If I don’t hear otherwise, (and even if I do with Chinese vehicles), I always assume NEDC; a garbage number.

  10. Donald LaCombe Says:

    Leland did not design the first Cadillac. Cadillac was originally The Henry Ford Company. Henry had some arguments with his stockholders and left. The company then hired Leland and changed the name to Cadillac. Ford had already designed a car for the company and the first Cadillac was Henry’s design with a Leland designed engine. If you get a chance look at an original 1903 Ford Model A next to a 1903 Cadillac!

  11. ArtG Says:

    6. I had the same thought. They could have picked any other letter in the alphabet.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Isn’t manufacturing cost even lower in China than in Mexico? As GM Vet says in #8, though, it would be a good way for Ford to use excess capacity in China, and Mach-E will probably be Ford’s best seller in China.

  13. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    10) Similarities between the ford and Cadillac indeed…

    https://medium.com/@forestcasey/vault-stories-model-a-vs-model-a-bebe101a0690

  14. Kit Gerhart Says:

    13 Intersting article

  15. Rey Says:

    Time to wake up the Detroit slumberers, Sandy Munro has a good wake up call in Munro Live, by 2030,my guess is Detroit will have less tha 10% market share of world market, if they are still aroud as a US auto company, Today Ontarios Premier says he has Stelantis back, yes Thats the ols FCA chryco Windsor plant going from 3 to 2 to 1 shift, me wonders how long the Brampton plant that makes the Chargers will be going.
    All the Detroit veterans here in this column will mock me or have something bad to say, but facts are Detroit is in decline, has been for the past 40 years.
    GOod luck stopping the Chinese BEV auto invasion that’s coming, like i said , a trickle at first then a flood, then the Tsunami.Hey all you Detroit veterans, a Chinese car might not have be your liking,but your grandkids will be driving one in the future.Eat that

  16. Sean Wagner Says:

    12 – Chinese labor costs have risen substantially over the years.

    While we’re on the subject, according to the Financial Times China’s power sector throttling is feeding into Magnesium production, which is largely grinding to a halt.

    Now get this: 85% of the world’s Mg comes from China (per the FT), and most of it from one city, Yulin. The US has some domestic capacity, but Europe is really in potentially dire straights.

    We’ve watched as companies around the world chose the cheapest supplier. Just maybe it’s time for some intelligent regulation of global sourcing sans blinders. We don’t give banks completely free reign either.

  17. ChuckGrenci Says:

    15, Your conclusions are not forgone conclusions; I’m not counting out Detroit one iota. They’re certainly not laying down on the job. Perhaps they were slow to the ‘party’ but it’s still a major minority party. And the know it all politicians that are pushing the agenda have been and quite regularly have got it wrong. It will take years to sort it all out, and with all this new battery production with a lot of varying “lithium” strategies, there might even be major challenges in the so-called recycling that a lot of people think is just around the corner. The BEV ‘book’ is still in its early chapters; the ending is not yet set in stone and will likely evolve to things we’ve never thought of even. As they say: stay tuned.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    17 I’d think recycling of lithium batteries would not be simple, given the small amounts of the more valuable materials in the cells.

    Speaking of Detroit, or rather, Bowling Green, the dealer has confirmation that my Corvette was built last week, and yesterday’s report showed it as “on the lot awaiting shipping,” or whatever description they use. I hope they ship it quickly, because it’s already a week later than I’d normally head for Florida, and I have some doctor appointments that I’ll need to change if I don’t go by this weekend.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    16 What is the main use of Mg? Isn’t it used in a lot of aluminum alloys?

  20. Sean Wagner Says:

    19 Kit – Exactly.

  21. Lambo2015 Says:

    15 All I can say is Wow! I understand you are of Asian descent and live in Canada so no real loyalties to American manufacturing. But the arrogates of you to end with “eat that” like you stated some fact, is laughable. Certainly by your comment you could care less, and most likely would enjoy watching the fall of Ford and GM. However, I wouldn’t count them out as they have been around for over 100 years and know how to adapt to a changing market even if they are slow and hesitant to do so. Actually I think they are preparing for the EV revolution at a proper pace. It only accounts for 3% of sales so no need to leave your core market hanging without product. There are many EV start-ups that have nothing to do but try and build market share. The old manufacturers have to balance supporting current ICE customers and developing BEVs for future demand. (demand that isn’t that great in the US right now) As for your prediction of them having >10% of US market share. That will more likely be the level of BEVs in the US. Government can push all they want but if the customers don’t want them it doesn’t matter. People will just keep their ICEs.

    I have bought plenty of Chinese products and if their cars are of equal quality as other stuff they build, it will be like ordering a car off wish. So for those that buy them they get what they deserve. As for the Brampton plant that’s no surprise of reduced shifts from a plant that’s been making the same vehicle for so many years its due for a new model change. So who cares?

    2030 is in 8 years & isn’t very long but we have an election in 2 years and another one after that before 2030. Lots can change as for mandates and EV requirements. I’m sure EVs are the future for much of transportation needs but it wont be as quick and as widespread as the current goal would lead you to believe. Nothing wrong with having ambitious goals but don’t be surprised when the target moves.

  22. Rey Says:

    #21Lambo, , GM is done like diner, just a matter of time, Ford might have a chance, and comparing dollar store quality to what you can buy when it comes to good quality Chinese cars is quite a reach, I suggest you test drive a Geely product, like a VOLVO or Polestars or the upcoming ZEEKR line, or head to Europe and try one of the Chinese offerings there, Have you seen Sandys lates vlogg?
    OK, just keep that head of yours in the sand,as in 10 years it won’t matter, your grandkids will be working for GM or Ford still, just have to learn some Mandarin.

  23. Rey Says:

    When the best hope for legacy auto is politics, the Union and buying their votes like they have bought the Biden Admin., you know you’re done and can’t compete, this is an ‘ Murican Co(Tesla) a company that has the most
    American content in parts and material being singled out by the current admin in favor of Unions and old Auto.
    Yes a lot will happen between now and then, like tarrifs and other hurdles will come but you can be sure that the Chinese will come , will set up shopped factories to get around trade and tariffs and we North Americans will work in them factories just like we work for the Japanese and Korean transplants.
    Now go see Sandys vlogg and make a comment afterwards, and then go to a GM and Ford HQ and tell them they need help, like ol’Sandy says

  24. Rey Says:

    Kit Batteries are recycled after end of life cycle, Redwood has a contract to do Ford’s spent batteries , amount others, now on the other hand how to recycle spent gases that come out the ICE tailpipe, ever try it in your lungs?
    And to those that say that because I’m of Asian descent America is the land of opportunity and is the # 1 destination of Asians for their future and to earn money and improve their lot in life, we just want a chance , like Elon Musk did,and we do want to help the World and make a difference. And last time i looked Tesla is an American company, a company that many Americans like to hate, Me wonders why.

  25. Rey Says:

    FYI , I’m a naturalized Canadian, all my siblings and a cousin are naturalized Americans, in S Calif, all contribute to the US economy , and more than pay their share of taxes to State & Fed. So We don’t hate Americans,we love America, but politics can be a devisive thing.

  26. Lambo2015 Says:

    22-23 I don’t actually think that politics is the only hope for legacy auto makers. Just in speaking with many people I know the desire for an EV isn’t 100%. Most people that are even considering and EV are doing so with plans as a go-to-work car and/or a second vehicle for the household. Unless battery tech and charging issues are much improved in the next 8 years they will be nothing more than a local commuter vehicle tethered like a 300 mile extension cord. Which works fine for probably 85% of what most vehicles are used for. However its still the issue of spending @ $10k more for a vehicle that only does 85% of what you need it to do. So although Sandy is a very smart person and has his thumb on the pulse of what’s happening tech wise. He is no fortune teller and I think too many things will need to change rapidly to achieve the EV success that is expected.

    I have concerns that China has positioned itself to build EVs cheaper and with monopolies on critical materials needed for batteries. However that still doesn’t negate their lack of attention to detail, The use of toxic materials and lack of adherence to safety standards. They have a record of just doing what they want and are backed by a government that does little to offenders. That’s why we see so much knock off brand products, copyright infringements and products sent out with things like lead paint or toxic materials.

    Just ask yourself how you think the VW emissions cheating scandal would have gone had it been a Chinese manufacturer? You really think Europe or the US is going to prosecute any Chinese CEO? You think they’ll pay the Billions of dollars that VW paid in fines? I don’t. That reason alone is how they will differ greatly from the Japanese and Korean manufacturers.

  27. Lambo2015 Says:

    25 I think you mistake paying taxes and enjoying where you live with patriotism. I love being an American and will always support local business over imported stuff because I believe it has a direct impact on my community and the people around me. That’s why I am happy for Tesla and glad they are an American auto manufacturer. I want to see them continue to succeed. Just as I want to see GM and Ford succeed. Not simply because they are an American manufacturer but because so many friends and family members have made a life long living from the auto industry. Either working for them directly or a supplier. But its more than that, So many local restaurants and other business’s only thrive because of the jobs that come from the automotive plants in the area. For every automotive job 5 other jobs are affected outside automotive.

    So don’t misunderstand my loyalty to US manufacturing as anti-capitalism. I think good competition is often times the best motivator to improve and change. The 1980s proved that to the big three in a huge way. But I also believe that we have a pretty good standard of living in the US and if you really want to compete globally then you need to be prepared to have everyone on a level playing field. I personally don’t want to make a wage that is the median globally for what I do. So I will continue to buy American cars and support my own over a country that pays workers 10% of what we make. Patriotism is devotion to your country even if that means your on the losing end. Its not paying taxes or where ever your political beliefs lie.

  28. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    24) That is the first point of recycling. Please tell me how many times the battery can be recycled before it is ultimately thrown into the landfill where it will then poison the earth for all time? Everyone talks about the first point of recycling and cheers, but ultimately every single battery made will end up in a landfill. Every single one. What the current recycling plans are doing is delaying the inevitable. It does not alter in one bit the inevitability that every single BEV battery will be in a landfill. May take 20 years, may take 30 years, but they will all end up in a landfill.

    At scale, current BEV batteries are an environmental disaster just waiting to happen. I’ll take the tail pipe emissions which are but a tiny fraction of what they were even 10 years ago, over the looming disaster that will not be recoverable for any amount of tax payer dollars with EV batteries made at full scale.

  29. Rey Says:

    Merkur is totally clueless about battery rcycling, redwood plans to recycle used batteries multiple times, been sniffing those gas fumes too much, your head been poisoned by Fossil fuels too much, maybe you got fetal alcohol syn.8 some people are beyond hope, go f.

  30. Rey Says:

    Go figure.

  31. Alan Roberts Says:

    So Google maps is just catching up to my Garmin’s map routing abilities.

  32. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    30) Personal insults, the last resort of those with no maturity.

  33. Lambo2015 Says:

    32) Yet he adamantly denies he is Larry with so much similarity is hard to believe.

  34. Rey Says:

    Just because a person is a believer it the future of BEVs for transportation and likes Tesla and Elons vision makes me Larry , well there must be hundreds of Larry’s in Electrek , Inside Ev , Teslarati and Cleantechnica, Not sure where world these old timers from Detroit live in, must be a very small world.,I doubt these people even watch YouTube, there thousands of Tesla believers there and Elon fans, I guess they are Larrys as well.

  35. Rey Says:

    Just because a person is a believer it the future of BEVs for transportation and likes Tesla and Elons vision makes me Larry , well there must be hundreds of Larry’s in Electrek , Inside Ev , Teslarati and Cleantechnica, Not sure where world these old timers from Detroit live in, must be a very small world.,I doubt these people even watch YouTube, there thousands of Tesla believers there and Elon fans, I guess they are Larrys as well.

  36. Rey Says:

    Just because a person is a believer it the future of BEVs for transportation and likes Tesla and Elons vision makes me Larry , well there must be hundreds of Larry’s in Electrek , Inside Ev , Teslarati and Cleantechnica, Not sure where world these old timers from Detroit live in, must be a very small world.,I doubt these people even watch YouTube, there thousands of Tesla believers there and Elon fans, I guess they are Larrys as well.