AD #3241 – BMW Phasing Out V-12 Engines; Subaru Electric Race Car Concept; Lamborghini Now Offering NFTs

January 18th, 2022 at 11:56am

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Listen to “AD #3241 – BMW Phasing Out V-12 Engines; Subaru Electric Race Car Concept; Lamborghini Now Offering NFTs” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 9:02

0:08 BMW Phasing Out V-12 Engines
0:57 Lime Brings E-Bikes to U.S.
1:44 Ford Partners to Make E-Commerce Easier
2:14 ZF Develops New Tech to Improve Semi-Truck Efficiency
3:39 Subaru Shows Off Electric Race Car Concept
4:31 Honda Testing 2nd-Gen Autonomous Work Vehicle
5:20 Lamborghini Jumps into NFTs
6:12 Clunky but Cute Auto NFTs
7:01 De Tomaso Scraps Plans to Open U.S. Plant
7:44 Rivian To Kick Off Production in Georgia in 2024

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41 Comments to “AD #3241 – BMW Phasing Out V-12 Engines; Subaru Electric Race Car Concept; Lamborghini Now Offering NFTs”

  1. Buzzerd Says:

    Can you ask Nicole if they ever considered the name E-Valanche for there new truck. Kidding but kind of not.

  2. Lew Says:

    Question for Nicole Kraatz.
    GM developed the skateboard architecture many years ago. Several other manufacturers are using it now. Why did GM abandon it for so many years?

  3. Lambo2015 Says:

    I cant help but wonder if these E-bikes and E-scooter businesses do that well. I’m really surprised that they are launching in DC. I’m sure they do fine in the warmer months but in a good portion of the mid-west 4-5 months are not what I would consider biking weather.
    They seem to do well on some college campuses where students are faced with a long walk to class or using a bike/scooter. Plus its a young crowd. But with snow and ice I just would think these EV mobility devices would find more use in warmer climates. Not to mention we have many more rain days than sunny California.

  4. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It looks like BMW is phasing out V12s only in BMW brand cars, not Rolls-Royce, at least for now.

  5. wmb Says:

    While think it’s interesting to see BMW giving plaques for their last V12s, I would think that doing so would carry ore meaning for the Rolls Royce brand!

    Lamborghini’s sell of NFTs, just shows, yet again, that those with dispensable income purchase things that leave others scratching their heads.

    To your question, Sean, of what to call the electric Silverado, I believe that calling the same thing they call the Ridgeline! Both are unibodied SUV/CUVs, with the storage area behind the rear seats cut off, extended and exterior styled to resemble a pick-up truck. Not that I have a problem with that, for, in my mind, if it looks like a pick-up and does the things that pick-ups do, it should be consider, and respected as, a pick-up truck!

  6. Wim van Acker Says:

    @3 do you use all your worldly possessions 12 months out of the year?

    I, for example, use my convertible and my road bicycle only between May and October. My snowgear in winter. Just saying.

  7. 1949 viewpoint Says:

    “beginning of a funeral procession for the internal combustion engine.”

    Not so fast “Char-wee”. Regardless of how much the gleeful greensters (this site included) like to promote a new EV age, ICEs aren’t going away anytime soon. In my view, it will still take not decades, but several generations, to complete the transition to EVs. High EV cost, mining issues to produce their batteries and the need to convince EV owners in rural areas they can rely on some future re-charging network will all lengthen the time for transition to EVs. In the meantime, there are opportunities for those OEMs still making ICEs to wring out excess emissions, reduce engine size and number of cylinders and eke out even more mileage increases.

  8. s65AMG Says:

    3 You are 100% correct. I have severe doubts those overpriced e-bikes will sell even one fourth of the predicted (not actual!) 130 million. That is a ridiculously high number. I wish Autoline would occasionally revisit the predictions it so often cites as news, and that some naive readers may consider as facts, and show how horribly off the mark they have been.

    i am currently at our local library branch and have the latest (Feb 22) issue of Consumer Reps, I quickly went thru it and then paid more attention at the auto items at the end.

    on p 60, titled “Road test”, it pits apples (the aging Model S) vs oranges (The new, after 16 years, Nissan Frontier Pickup). The S gets a lousy 60 noverall score and a decent 88 Road test score, while the Frontier gets an even lousier 54 and 67 respectively. What you’d expect from an old lady tester that drives a Buick. But the words are different than the numbers. For the S, it says “Confounding Controls spoil a Superb EV”. Said like the old lady above, 100%. So if you are not smart or diligent enough to read the manual or to understand the controls, you are better off with the Buick. (or the Lexus, such as the Buick LS400!)

    On the next page 61, there is a table with the old lady’s rankings of several car segments, the last of which is another ‘apples and oranges’ combo called “EVs and Luxury Sedans”. Despite its high praise for the S, it is way down, and the top two are the BMW750 4.4 V8 and the Audi A8 3.0T, with 84 and 83. In fact, the road test of the 7 is a near perfect 99, while the one for the A8 is a close 2nd at 96. I wonder what the old lady appreciated in the 7 vs the S, maybe the much hallowed “Ride”, an attribute especially important for geezers with bad backs?

    But this has become too long. On to the next one.

  9. s65AMG Says:

    On BMW’s ending V12s, too bad. I hope Mercedes and ROlls does not follow suit, or Audi with its W12s. David Davis once said you should, once in your life, own a V12. The above will make prices of used V12s, which used to be extremely affordable as the models aged, much higher, esp if the other makers follow suit.

    Another news item I saw in the NYT’s today, there was an auto section about high auction prices for classic cars etc, but the big news item was that in Europe, EVs outsold Diesels for the first time. Before you shrug this away, note that this is NOT the US, where it would not be as earth shaking. This is Europe, where, until a few years ago, Diesels were more than 50% of the market. Much of this has to be the 180 in Government policies there, which went from full support for diesels even for the most ridiculous tiny city cars, to full support of EVs and persecution of ICEs.

    Enough said. Time to take advantage of our heat wave here (32F!) and go for my long walk around the local river park.

  10. Roger T Says:

    People getting rich with NFT. I confess I am struggling to understand what the heck is NFT, and what does it mean. I thought NFTs were JPEGs. Lambo’s item seems to be both tangible and fungible.

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    8 Larry, er s65AMG, have you ever driven, or even been in a new Model S, or any Tesla? The controls are lousy, and make no sense. That is reflected in CR’s “road test score.” Reliability and safety are part of the overall score. I don’t know if the S got dinged for some aspects of “full self driving,” but it might have.

  12. George Ricci Says:

    http://www.covidtests.gov is up and running right now!

  13. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Not to get into semantics but the “skateboard” is the ‘frame’, so it is still body on frame (as is where).

    And the passing of the V12 from BMW; I don’t note it as the passing of the baton to BEV, as V12′s have been few and far between for many a decade (same as the V-8′s but to a lesser degree). A proclamation of the passing of the genre is still premature in my evaluation of current propulsion.

  14. Kit Gerhart Says:

    12 I was surprised that the web site wasn’t “backed up,” but it worked well. I’ll see how long before delivery of the tests.

  15. Wim van Acker Says:

    @13 on 12 cylinder engines: I am with you. When Ferrari and Lamborghini phase out the 12 cylinder engines it is the true exit. I have no facts and figures at hand, but I am expecting that those two are the largest producers of twelve cylinder engines with VW Group (Lamborghini/Bentley) being the largest. Does anyone of you know who are the largest 12 cylinder engine producers?

  16. Sean Wagner Says:

    Back in the last millenium, I once had the pleasure of driving BMW’s 850i with that original, sublime 5.0l V12.

    The smooth pull from just above 1’000 rpm was truly astounding, and simply unique at the time.

    Mercedes’ then CEO averred their hallowed S-Class already had the perfect engine (of course!) and they definitely were not going to build anything with more cylinders (I was there in the Parc des Eaux Vives and remember it).

    Ho ho ho. Back then, BMW badly needed some credibility in the luxury department, and twelve cylinders provided for that like nothing else.

    A pity Lincoln and Cadillac just didn’t find the mojo to compete.

    But so many years later, all the modern horsepower monsters leave me completely jaded. It’s actually Tesla’s evolution that has drawn me back into the automotive orbit.

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    16 I always thought the 850 with a manual transmission would be really cool, but they were pricey new, and I’m sure it’s way “too late” to buy one now.

  18. D Ford Says:

    I still have a hard time thinking EVs are more environmentally friendly than the ICE when you include all the cradle-to-grave functions of mining, manufacturing, and life’s-end recycling. Factor in the lessor harmful emissions of synthetics and I’m really having doubts on all this.

  19. Lambo2015 Says:

    6 No, I do not use all my possessions all year round which was precisely my point. Lime I believe is a rental e-bike and I’m sure business cane be great in the summer months. Just pointing out that they probably have a great business model in the south and West coast but I would think renting bikes in Michigan in February has to be a struggle.

    17 A few of the guys I know that were also building Lamborghini replicas used the BMW V12 mated to a Porsche manual transmission. I believe they all were able to get the engines cheaper than the transmissions. I saw pictures but never drove one.

  20. Wim van Acker Says:

    @19 sorry, I have misunderstood you.

  21. Lambo2015 Says:

    7,18 Agree and I believe we will eventually come to the realization that EVs have their use as do ICE’s and they will both live on for many more years together. The EVs will help reduce our gas usage while driving up our cost of Electricity. Meanwhile governments and municipalities will continue to institute fees and fines that will also drive up the cost of using an ICE. In the end we will all pay more for our gas and Electric and it will be a matter of choice on which one works best for each consumer. IMO

  22. Wim van Acker Says:

    @19: you being “Lambo” are the one to educate us on 12 cylinder engine.

  23. Lambo2015 Says:

    22 Oh no! My Lamborghini has a Cadillac 4.6L NorthStar engine in it. I’m building it to drive it. I want to be able to get parts at the local parts store and not pay a fortune for them. I have no knowledge on BMW’s V12. Mine is all GM underneath.

  24. ArtG Says:

    There’s been a rash of e-bike fires in NYC
    https://www.consumerreports.org/electric-bikes/how-to-prevent-e-bike-fires-a2493889574/

  25. Sean Wagner Says:

    17 Kit – The BMW 850i with a manual transmission is a unique machine, and to me at least, a rare gem of an automobile.

    While I prefer smaller cars, especially in Europe, it should be perfect for the US.

    The small block is another engine of note (I can’t judge the latest complete package), but that twelve really is something else. Like entering a different realm.

    Incidentally, given the right car, a tiny Japanese 3-cylinder turbo can be loads of fun.

    19 Lambo – Is there something inherently wrong with the original manual mated to the BMW V12? Or is it a question of souped-up engines requiring a beefier transmission?

  26. GM Veteran Says:

    I like Rivian’s approach and vehicles thus far. I hope they don’t end up choking on their ambitions. They already have a medium size assembly plant for the two rather expensive vehicles they make. By the time this new plant comes online, GM and Ford will have been in the market with their EV trucks for more than a year and Ram (and maybe Tesla) will be hitting the market at about the same time. Unless they plan to start selling less expensive versions (which is not part of their stated plan), I am not sure they will need two assembly plants. Unused capacity kills profits, and one day soon even the EV companies will have to worry about making a profit.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    8,11 I just read the CR review of the Tesla S, and it confirms what I thought. The “road test” part is hurt mainly by the awful controls, and the overall score is hurt both by that, and very poor reliability. Comparing the Model S to a C8 Corvette, the Corvette has a higher road test score, mainly because it has user friendly, intuitive controls, while driving very well, as does the the Tesla. The Corvette has a slightly lower “overall” score, I suspect because it lacks some safety features, like automatic emergency braking. Both have poor reliability survey results, but my Corvette has been fine, so far.

    The Tesla was quicker in CR’s acceleration tests, both 0-60 and quarter mile. They “just floor it” for the acceleration tests, rather than using launch control with cars that have it, like the Corvette. Just flooring it is better for an EV in 0-60 runs, but in normal driving, the Tesla would also be effectively a little quicker, with immediate acceleration when you push on the right pedal.

  28. Lambo2015 Says:

    25 No I don’t believe there is anything wrong with the BMW manual transmission other than its a longitudinal RWD set up. The Lamborghini is mid engine and needs the rear axles to basically come out the side of the transmission which is why they opted for the Porsche transmission. Even still I believe they had to beef of some parts of it to handle the TQ.

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21 When they have the engine in front of, rather than the behind the transmission, do they need to make the engine run backwards?

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28,29 Or maybe they use a Cayman/Boxster transmission, which should run the right direction. If that’s the case, the torque handling capability might be marginal, though the stock 850i engine had barely more peak torque than the 2.5 turbo in the Cayman/Boxster GTS.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28 What transmission are you using? A GM 4T80 or similar?

  32. Bob Wilson Says:

    The web link is to Dan O’Dowd on CNBC who claims that Tesla software is dangerous based on YouTube videos, He has never had a Tesla with the software he criticizes and claims “it does not work.”

    A ‘safety engineer who uses Internet YouTube from strangers for his data source does not appear to be credible.

  33. Lambo2015 Says:

    31 Yea I basically took the Cadillac DTS cradle and made my tubular chassis to accept it as it was in the DTS. Used the suspension axles and even brakes. Essentially moved the DTS whole front to the rear of my car. The engine is transverse mounted but I’m not trying to fool anyone. Its a kit car and I just wanted reliability and not a bunch of cobbled up parts. That engine/trans combo was designed and built to work together and should be plenty enough power for the car.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    33 Thanks for the info. That’s what it thought it would be, just to make a really cool looking car to drive, but it’s more “exotic” than if you’d used a 3800 or Chevy V8 from a front drive Monte Carlo, or something like that.

  35. Lambo2015 Says:

    29 Yea I’m not real sure what Porsche transmission they used as I had to plans to go that route so didn’t pay much attention. However I do know they didn’t have to change engine rotation. There was a guy making adapter plates and it sounded like mating them up was pretty simple.

    If I was just starting the project today tho I would probably be looking for a totaled out C8 and use that engine transmission set up.

  36. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Speaking of 12 cylinder engines, probably a lot of Rolls-Royce and Bentley SUV drivers don’t know how many cylinders their engines have, kind of like a lot of 3 series convertible drivers don’t know which wheels the power is delivered to.

  37. Lambo2015 Says:

    34 When I started the project I did have a old school GM carbureted V8 mated to a GM transaxle. But felt that was old technology and if I was going through all this work might as well build something that is a bit more efficient and will have no trouble starting in the cold. Plus I didn’t like the mismatch of parts I didn’t want to worry about twisting axle shafts since most of the transaxles out there were designed for smaller 4cyl or V6 engines. That DTS was the only FWD V8 and the trans was made to push that heavy ass DTS so just seemed like a good choice.

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    35 My first thought on Porsche transmissions was 911, but on second thought, it would probably be Cayman/Boxster. The latter would be the right configuration. The transmissions might be a little fragile if driven abusively with the V12, but for most driving, should be fine.

  39. Sean Wagner Says:

    @Lambo – Of course, thank you for elucidating. So not a Lamborghini Espada! The Northstar is another fine engine that GM left to wither. Sigh.

  40. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    32) I see these types of “reviews” all the time. The software is not “dangerous” if the actual driver of the car pays attention. It is dangerous if you do not pay attention. FSD and Autopilot both drive like my teenage niece. Usually fine, sometimes not. You have to pay attention or you will be in trouble. I believe that their marketing is actually the dangerous piece here. Calling something for which it is not, FULL SELF DRIVING, is irresponsible and very dangerous. There are people that actually think this car is self driving when all it is doing is operating pedals and steering wheels. The driver of the car is still left with the hardest task which is deciding what the car should do. The driver has the added task to determine if the car actually did what was expected and if not force the car to do it. I see no point in this level of technology for the cost and it is ridiculously irresponsible for TESLA to call it FULL SELF DRIVING when clearly it does not drive itself FULLY.

  41. Lambo2015 Says:

    40 Couldn’t agree more. Its been expressed here many times that any of these autonomous features short of level 5 is just driver assist features and need to be presented that way. I fully expect (after someone is killed) a lawsuit to force Tesla to change the name. Its very misleading and sorry but the general public is full of stupid people. You wouldn’t think we would need warning labels to tell people to not use a hair dryer in the shower but someone obviously did.