AD #3311 – Ford Makes Long Commitment to ICEs; Honda Launching New EV Family; GM Mexico Workers Demand Raise
April 26th, 2022 at 11:50am
Listen to “AD #3311 – Ford Makes Long Commitment to ICEs; Honda Launching New EV Family; GM Mexico Workers Demand Raise” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 11:18
0:07 Ford F-150 Lightning Launches Today
1:10 Ford to Build IC Engine for 20 Years
2:05 GM Mexican Workers Demand 19% Raise
3:15 GM’s Ultium Heat Pump
4:49 Corvette EV Uses Ultium, Could Be an SUV
6:10 GM Tells Suppliers to Sign Climate Contract
7:29 Volta Reveals New Heavy-Duty EV Trucks
8:10 Honda Launches New EVs in China
9:27 NIO Hits 200,000 Milestone
10:02 BMW Uses Digital Twins for Manufacturing
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FORD LIGHTNING LAUNCHES TODAY
This is a big day at Ford. Job One for the F-150 all-electric Lightning officially rolls off the assembly line this afternoon. Yesterday. General Motors and Stellantis tried to pre-empt Ford’s publicity barrage. GM confirmed the electric Corvette is on the way and Stellantis again teased the electric version of the RAM pickup. Even so, Ford has a decidedly first-mover advantage. The Chevy Silverado is a year away. So is Tesla’s Cyber Truck. The electric Ram is about two years away. And even though Rivian beat Ford to the market with an electric pickup, it’s struggling to get chips and production is running at a trickle. Meanwhile, Ford ramped up production goals for the Lightning. At first, it expected to make 40,000 a year. But when orders poured in far faster than expected, it raised that to 150,000 a year. And when orders kept pouring in, it just stopped taking orders.
FORD TO BUILD IC ENGINES FOR 20 YEARS
While publicly Ford is all-in on electrics, behind the scenes it’s laying the groundwork to keep IC engines in production for nearly another 20 years. The local Unifor president at Ford’s engine plant in Windsor, Ontario says Ford told him the plant will be making engines for the F-Series until 2040. The plant builds the 7.3L engine for the truck as well as the Mustang’s 5.0L engine and it will soon start producing a 6.8L engine for the F-Series. Ford needs those engines because that’s where it makes the profits it needs to invest in EVs. And here’s an interesting tidbit the Unifor president also revealed. The F-150 Lightning uses 1,700 chips which is eight times more than the current F-150.
GM MEXICAN WORKERS DEMAND 19% RAISE
Well that didn’t take long. GM’s workers in Mexico voted to go with a new independent union, and now they’re demanding a big raise, over 19%. Even so, Reuters reports that would raise wages to only $3.81 an hour, which is less than $8,000 a year. GM made a counter offer of 3.2%, so clearly the bargaining is just getting underway, and we expect that to go on for at least a month. The current contract expires on May 31st.
GM’S ULTIUM HEAT PUMP
We mentioned it when talking about the electric Corvette yesterday, but I’d like to go into a little more detail about GM’s energy recovery system or heat pump for the Ultium platform. It takes heat generated by EV components, like the batteries, inverters and motors, which is typically not harnessed or just wasted and uses that energy for something else. To do this a fluid is pumped through the system that can either remove or apply heat when it comes in contact with the component. The fluid can also be heated more to do even more work. GM says for every 1 kW of energy it takes in, it’s able to put out 4-5 kW. This is not a new idea, but obviously GM’s design and application is going to be a little bit different. For example, it can cool the motors and warm the batteries, which allows for maximum performance or what you may know as Watts to Freedom in the Hummer EV. There’s also talk that it could link up with the Navigation and if it knows the user is going to a station with DC fast charging capability, the system will pre-condition the battery so it charges more efficiently, which could also reduce time spent plugged in. Other benefits include faster heating of the cabin in the cold, more range and overall, less energy used by the battery. GM says all Ultium-based vehicles will come standard with the energy recovery system.
CORVETTE EV USES ULTIUM, LIKELY AN SUV
Now going back to that electric Corvette for a moment. It looks like you all think we missed a couple of things. AutoForecast Solutions reports that in 2025 the electric Corvette will be built at GM’s Grand River plant in Lansing, Michigan. Chuck Grenci points out that the all-electric, Ultium-based ‘Vette will be sold in addition to or alongside gas models, including an electrified version, which is most likely AWD and hybrid. It’s the camouflaged one seen testing in the snow and is coming out next year. And DB implies if we had been paying attention to the rumors we’d have known about the electric Corvette AKA the E-Ray since 2018, would know that it’s coming out in 2025 and could be an SUV. That makes sense. The Grand River plant is also going to build full-size all-electric Cadillac and Buick sedans and SUVs on the Ultium platform. Yesterday I said I was surprised the electric ‘Vette is based on the Ultium platform because I didn’t think it was capable of spawning something similar to the new mid-engine layout. But it’s certainly capable of a super fast SUV. So, what do you think of an electric Corvette SUV?
GM TELLS SUPPLIERS TO SIGN CLIMATE CONTRACT
General Motors is asking its suppliers to sign a Global Climate Action and Human Rights pledge. It wants them to achieve carbon neutrality for direct and indirect emissions based on their respective industry, anywhere between 2025 and 2038 depending on the business. And by 2025, GM wants suppliers to have a management system in place for labor and human rights, ethics and sustainable procurement practices, which will be based on a third-party assessment. GM says just over half of the suppliers that represent the $76 billion it spent on materials last year have already signed the pledge.
VOLTA LAUNCHES HEAVY DUTY EV TRUCKS
EV startup Volta Trucks, which launched the first purpose-built 16-metric-ton commercial truck, just introduced two smaller versions, a 7.5-ton and a 12-ton. Design wise, the new trucks are pretty much the same as the original and both feature the same large cab and central driving position for the driver. Volta didn’t reveal range for the new models but the 16-ton version is between 95 to 125 miles or 150 to 200 kilometers. Volta is aiming to start series production of the 7.5- and 12-ton models in 2025.
HONDA LAUNCHES NEW EVs IN CHINA
Honda is kicking off sales of electric vehicles in China under a new model family, called e:N with its joint venture partners. Dongfeng Honda started sales of the e:NS1 small crossover today, while GAC Honda gets another small crossover, but with different styling, called the e:NP1 that goes on sale in May. Both are built on the newly developed e:N Architecture F. While it’s vague on details it says it features an electric motor and a large-capacity battery that delivers 510 kilometers or about 317 miles on the Chinese test cycle. It also has “next-generation connected technology,” so we’d expect OTA capability and it comes with a 15.1 inch display screen. By 2024, both Dongfeng and GAC will have new plants dedicated to making EVs and e:N vehicles and by 2027 Honda will have introduced 10 e:N models. We also wonder if there’s any consideration to use the e:N Architecture for GM and Honda’s affordable EVs?
NIO HITS 200,000 MILESTONE
Chinese EV automaker NIO, which is already selling cars in Europe, continues to expand its production. Number 200,000 just rolled off the assembly line. It took the company almost four years to accomplish that. That’s an extremely slow ramp up, but NIO is getting a lot of accolades in the industry. It has a second manufacturing site that will start production in the third quarter and plans to introduce three new models this year on its second-generation platform, which has all its latest tech.
BMW USES DIGITAL TWINS FOR MANUFACTURING
For years BMW has been converting to a more digital, connected and automated manufacturing process, some of which we’ve covered here. Now it’s investing in one of the companies that’s aiding the switch. BMW acquired a stake in Kinexon, which helped the automaker develop a software platform that takes in data from all over the plant and transfers it into a digital twin. Then in the virtual world the software can monitor or even test and make changes based on the information coming in and that’s pumped back into the plant so the right parts and tools show up to the right station at the right time. It’s similar to how many autonomous driving systems are tested. BMW currently has the system in place at 10 plants around the world and plans to roll it out to more.
But that brings us to the end of today’s show. Thanks for tuning in.
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Comments (33)
April 26th, 2022 at 12:07 pm
If the call any kind of SUV a Corvette, I have bought my last Corvette. Maybe I have bought my last Corvette anyway, but if they bastardize the name by using it on a truck, that will guarantee I’ve bought my last one.
April 26th, 2022 at 12:38 pm
GM is now showing its true “Badge Engineering” marketing approach. Remember the splashing the “Super Sport SS” decal on their front wheel drive Impala cars. Now a Corvette SUV and why not a pick up truck or a van!!
April 26th, 2022 at 12:38 pm
Agree
April 26th, 2022 at 12:39 pm
How is the Federal and State Governments going to collect road taxes on EV’s which are current assessed on gasoline and diesel fuel purchases? Our roads in the Northeast are horrible to mention it mildly.
The added weight of EV batteries especially in trucks will be devastating on roads and infrastructure. What is the proposed solution?
April 26th, 2022 at 12:41 pm
Sean you have said in order for an electric vehicle to be the most effecient vehicle it can be it must be a ground up design. Using that logic it would be likely it’s a SUV type vehicle.
@KIt- how many porcshe owners said the same thing and now…. and now they realized who cares, is a good vehicle or not? That’s all that matters, getting upset about what they name something is high school drama nonsense.
April 26th, 2022 at 12:43 pm
4) They are looking into different mileage tracking schemes for EVs. That was a part of the infrastructure bill to fund research into how they can track the mileage on your car.
April 26th, 2022 at 12:46 pm
At least in Ohio they charge you an extra 100 dollars on hybryds. And 200.dollars on plug-in/battery for state plates. Guess other states do the same..
April 26th, 2022 at 12:53 pm
A Corvette SUV is obvious but it will have to match the Porsche versions in performance and be priced lower. If they make a hot Escalade than the Corvette SUV will likely be a 2-row version.
April 26th, 2022 at 12:56 pm
My feelings towards a Corvette SUV are the same as thoughts of the Mach-E wearing a Mustang label. Corvette & Mustang are names of models at Chevrolet & Ford – Not brand names that encompass numerous models.
Comment regarding Porsche which expanded their brand into SUV’s, however, Porsche has not built a 911 SUV.
April 26th, 2022 at 12:58 pm
The Ultium system sounds really good. I understand that Tesla recoup motor heat etc. and will also heat the battery before charging as long as you are using their navigation so it knows where you will recharge.
The use of heat pumps is also good. Reality is different from theory and heat pumps reliably work at COPs of 1.5 up to 3, but definitely better than a COP of 1 from a resistance heater.
Glad to see GM putting effort into this. The Bolt has the worst cold weather range drop of any EV. We get 60% of our summer range in the winter, even if you don’t use cabin heat.
April 26th, 2022 at 1:24 pm
Wow, really interesting that the electric F-150 uses so many more chips than the ICE version. How might that ratio effect a move to EV’s. Where are all of these chips going to come from when we are short now? This would be an interesting topic for an Autoline show.
April 26th, 2022 at 1:33 pm
5,8 There is a Porsche Cayenne and Macan, not a Porsche 911 Cayenne and Porsche 911 Macan.
I’m fine with a Chevy Sport Truckster SUV, but not a Chevy Corvette Sport Truckster SUV.
April 26th, 2022 at 1:34 pm
9 Exactly
April 26th, 2022 at 1:42 pm
11 Where do all of those chips go in the electric truck? Does it take that many chips to make a motor control, which is the main difference in electronics between an EV and an ICE vehicle. The EV wouldn’t even need an ECM, ignition modules, etc.
Yeah, I’m wondering where the chips will come from. Maybe they are counting chip resistors and capacitors along with semiconductor chips, to come up with that 1700 total.
April 26th, 2022 at 1:55 pm
At least Chevy Silverado EV is a dedicated BEV. Unlike Ford Lighting which isn’t and won’t be until 2025.
April 26th, 2022 at 2:41 pm
Sandy Munro brought a Tesla super bottle to After Hours years ago and recently did a compare and contrast to the Ford plumber’s nightmare. A good idea to reuse waste heat and a heat pump, perhaps some credit is owed the leading Tesla implementation?
April 26th, 2022 at 2:48 pm
When it comes to propulsion systems of sports cars, I do not subscribed to a middle of the road approach. A sports can be 100% ICE with all its guttural glory or it can be a BEV. I have faith that BEV sports car OEMs will find a unique sensory DNA that will excite.
I have owned several hybrids and loved them. But don’t believe a sports car should be a hybrid. Why carry the extra mass and complexity of two propulsion systems!?!? Hybrids are primarily for the stop and go of the urban jungle. Sports cars are not.
So, I believe GM is using a shotgun approach to try to protect the Corvette’s future. Did they not learn from their failed effort 40 years ago when they made nearly every Oldsmobile a “Cutlass”? I believe GM should be more surgical.
JMHO
April 26th, 2022 at 2:50 pm
@12 but if you made Corvette it’s own brand, which they would be doing at that point it becomes the same thing. It’s just a name in then end.
April 26th, 2022 at 3:15 pm
18 To me, and I suspect a lot of other people, legendary 50-70 year old model names like Corvette, Mustang, and 911 should not become “brands.” Porsche realizes that, but Ford did not, and it looks like Chevy may not. I still don’t expect to see any Porsche 911 SUVs or other trucks.
April 26th, 2022 at 3:15 pm
GM has been considering expanding the Corvette brand for several decades to become a small collection of vehicles in varying body styles. This is because the Corvette brand is so strong. If they did this, it would not be carried by every Chevy dealership and might even be awarded to Cadillac or Buick-GMC dealerships. Not a definite plan at this point that I am aware of, but it has been studied for many years. The idea has not been supported by the Chevy dealer council which might be at least one reason they have not done it yet.
April 26th, 2022 at 3:17 pm
Kit, you are so right. Porsche wrestled with using the 911 name on their sedan which was to be based on the 911, but ultimately decided not to do that. We know it today as the Panamera.
April 26th, 2022 at 3:22 pm
From what I am told, its true, GM is asking their suppliers to sign on to their ESG program. But, you had better not say no. In addition, you get the privilege of paying a hefty annual fee to that 3rd party company that has a contract to monitor each supplier’s progress, establish annual goals and report to GM.
And, its not limited to factories that make parts and components. It also applies to all of their non-hard parts suppliers which include a variety of special service agencies, marketing firms and advertising agencies.
April 26th, 2022 at 3:27 pm
17 If done right, hybrids apparently work well for sports cars. The recent NSX, and some very expensive European exotics are hybrids. In these cars, the hybridization is for performance, not mpg. The NSX gets a dismal 21/22 EPA city/highway mpg, and the Italians probably do worse.
They are probably doing the hybrid Corvette to be more like the exotics, and F1 cars. I’m not interested, though. My “base” Corvette has more than enough performance.
April 26th, 2022 at 3:54 pm
Thanks Sean for filling some of the Corvette holes that yesterday’s show possessed. Like it our not, I’m always interested in Corvette news. Autoline, despite my challenge, brings the ‘beans’ when it comes to the whole automotive industry.
April 26th, 2022 at 4:03 pm
23 – I believe the Vette hybrid is for the purpose of achieving AWD… iCE for the rear wheels… electric motor for the front wheels (sacrificing frunk space). But it all leaves me confused. I somewhat understand adding AWD for high HP traction, but I thought the C8 rear mid engine was for traction. So, an AWD C8 seems redundant, unless it is for winter traction (which seems inane).
April 26th, 2022 at 4:13 pm
25 You can still get more power to the ground with power to the front wheels, but I can’t imagine that it would make much difference, and I can imagine that the extra weight of the hybrid powertrain could make the car drive worse. We should know in a year or so.
Yeah, I doubt if many people use Corvettes in the winter. Between the really wide tires, and little ground clearance, they would not work very well in snow. I checked the Tire Rack site, and they don’t have winter tire/wheel packages for C8 Corvettes.
April 26th, 2022 at 4:25 pm
About the BMW software model of their physical plant. When asked about the single most impressive feature of Giga-Austin, Sandy pointed to the ‘robot carriers’ that bring the cars to the workstations. If there is a problem, that unit is moved aside and production continues. The assembly line can be expanded by new guide lines for the robot carriers. So instead of a lock-step, assembly line, a fixed chain of workstations, Tesla has a flexible assembly line(s).
The web link is to the panel review with Sandy Munro, Emmet Peppers, and Dave Lee.
April 26th, 2022 at 6:09 pm
The web link is a better video, look at 23:00 for the segment about “AGVS”, the flexible, reprogrammable assembly system. Compared to BMW, the Automated Guided Vehicles is the way to go.
April 26th, 2022 at 7:17 pm
Sean/John, do you know if the reference to the 1700 chips in the Lightning are for the old chips that are in short supply, or new semiconductor chips? As I understand and was mentioned in an earlier show, the older chips are the ones that are in high demand, since they have been time tested, with no questions to there dependability. But analysts have suggested that the newer chips are better suited for BEVs, for they would/could better handle the processing needs of these connected vehicles. Following that logic, would it stand to reason that, if the Lightning and other EVs plan to use these newer chips that, many of which are already available, perhaps the correct chip shortage may only be an issue for the correct crop of ICE vehicles and not the soon to be released EV vehicles?
April 27th, 2022 at 2:17 am
I will say it again. Unless you can charge an electric car the same amount of time it takes to gas an ICE you are going nowhere. Over 50% of the country is not the city and the type of driving here it will not work. These green people are social dreamers.
April 27th, 2022 at 8:34 am
My thoughts on GM using Corvette as a brand/division is that this is just another brain fart coming from the accounting side of things. They see good margins, brand loyalty, and a uniqueness that no other division has. All good things but its directly tied to the single vehicle. Expand and you dilute the brand. Launch a shared SUV platform with Chevy or Buick but with better performance and you just have the same garbage they did with Pontiac when they started offering minivans. By offering more choices you ruin the original.
So what would they do call the 2 door sportscars Corvette Stingrays and the CUVs Corvette Sharks and the SUVs Corvette Shamu?
If GM really wants a lineup of performance vehicles they should consider bringing back the Pontiac brand and revive names like Trans Am and GTO and Firebird and place those on their line up of CUV/SUVs and leave the Corvette name alone.
April 27th, 2022 at 10:49 am
30) The only way to pull it off from a naming perspective is to amp up their sub-names. Corvette can be a “brand” with vehicle names like Stingray, Z06, ZR1…And then you have to find names for the other vehicles they want to introduce.
They will ruin it if they try to reskin a Equinox and put that piece of junk under the Corvette brand. They will pretty much ruin it if they use any of their current platforms and put that junk under the Corvette brand. Corvette as a brand needs unique platforms or at least significantly better platforms than what GM has in their current portfolio.
April 29th, 2022 at 12:07 pm
[1] I have no quarrel with electric vehicles, but I do not understand the fascination with the super fast emphasis…why not a practical EV that maximizes range and provides an archaic 0 to 60 time of say 6 seconds. [2] As cars get increasingly “chipped” (1,700 for the Ford Lightning) they will become increasingly intelligent and less tolerant of the humans driving them…so when we drive a electric Corvette, or whatever, it will basically be a safe but thrilling amusement park adventure. [3] The future of transportation seems to lie in a SaaS version of ownership without any driving experience remaining.