AD #3352 – EV Raw Material Costs = 2X ICE; $4,500 Union EV Incentive Officially Dead; Ford’s 2,000 HP Transit Van

June 23rd, 2022 at 11:59am

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Listen to “AD #3352 – EV Raw Material Costs = 2X ICE; $4,500 Union EV Incentive Officially Dead; Ford’s 2,000 HP Transit Van” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 11:09

0:08 Tesla Loses Billions on New Plants, Of Course
0:50 Musk Says Tesla May Start Advertising
1:36 Raw Material Costs for EV = 2X ICE
2:51 $4,500 Union EV Incentive Officially Dead
4:17 IndyCar Eats Up 25,000 Firestones A Year
5:08 Ford’s 2,000 HP Transit Van
6:01 Cadillac Celestiq Interior Teaser
7:37 Infiniti Starts Free Maintenance Program
8:24 Honda CR-V Interior Teasers
8:58 CATL Qilin Battery Boasts Fast Charge Time

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31 Comments to “AD #3352 – EV Raw Material Costs = 2X ICE; $4,500 Union EV Incentive Officially Dead; Ford’s 2,000 HP Transit Van”

  1. ChuckGrenci Says:

    It is exciting to see Cadillac re-entering the ultra-luxury arena again. It is also exciting to see regular reveals to spur interest and provide continuity till launch. While this vehicle will be of a limited production, and quite pricey, it should be a fine representative of what Cadillac once was and where it is going again.

  2. Alex Borenstein Says:

    -1. agreed. I will be very interested in seeing the Cadillac Celestiq from a styling standpoint when revealed.

  3. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Chuck & Alex – Not sure if you saw the Celestiq teasers we showed earlier this month. But one of the bolts for the door hinge was stamped with its old line “standard of the world.”

  4. Roger T Says:

    Very interesting to hear the raw materials cost delta between EV and ICE vehicles is $5k, much less than I thought. I guess the complete analysis should consider labor costs considering plant and platform built for purpose, w/o scar tissue and no line sharing between EV and ICE. I suspect cost parity is already here for those who do EVs right.

  5. Bob Wilson Says:

    ‘Clean Technica’ writers are unaware of decades of anti-Musk articles by TESLAQ and Tesla short sellers. Their recent Musk article (see web link) tries the same nonsense tried by others. Still, if you want to hate Musk, enjoy the mud.

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    4 I’d think the biggest thing needed to reach cost parity would be efficiency in converting raw materials into batteries.

  7. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 Is anything in the linked article untrue?

  8. joe Says:

    I feel sorry for the workers who could lose their jobs, but I don’t feel sorry for Elon Musk because of his lies and decdptions which helped Tesla grow. But the time of rekoning is around the corner. We will soon see the real leader of EV’s. Some may think who I say it will is a joke….like always. But, GM has always been in the forefront of EV tech and has kept quiet through the years. They just waited for better batteries and they now have them. Good luck Tesla.

  9. GM Veteran Says:

    Its been a long time since anyone other than Cadillac called them Standard of the World. Perhaps they should concentrate on building their reputation and sales rather than nominating themselves the Standard of the World. When your brand sales rank 6th among luxury brands in your home country, this kind of self-nominating bravado speaks volumes about what has been wrong with Cadillac for decades.

  10. ChuckGrenci Says:

    5,7 And that doesn’t give Elon ‘carte-blanche’ either as some of the ‘Muskavites’ adhere to. Elon plays a lot of stuff both ways; I welcome all news and comment so I can decide for myself and not bow to his decrees.

  11. Sean Wagner Says:

    I’ll posit that the Celestiq will be of no import whatsoever. The pricetag is simply a modern analog to the Allanté’s flight over the Atlantic. But we’ll see.

    However, there are new pics of production Lyriqs floating around the web, and with the rear lights blacked out, the design looks far less of a jumble. It has actually been garnering a lot of praise.

  12. joe Says:

    This is not the old GM anymore. As an ex GM worker, you should know GM has the know how and now has the will to build the best. Wait and see.

  13. XA351GT Says:

    That Transit van is a homage to the original British Transit Super Van that had a GT40 engine installed mid ship in the cargo bay . There is video on youtube from the 70s of it pulling the inside wheel off the ground during acceleration . Which to me looked pretty damn hairy to drive.

  14. Sean Wagner Says:

    About CATL’s Qilin battery packs: in the vid, there’s a cooling plate on the bottom.

    This is what Tesla envisioned on ‘battery day’ for the 4680 packs and made quite some noise about, together with new cell chemistries and the tabless design.

    Actual Tesla production parts feature liquid cooling ducts between cells, just like what CATL is positing for their next generation according to the video.

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Somehow, projects like Celestiq don’t interest me much. Building a few hundred very expensive cars probably doesn’t make money, even though they are very expensive, and it would seem that the money used to develop Celestiq could be better used elsewhere.

    While hybrids have limited appeal, that is what I like for a “general use” vehicle, and Toyota is who makes the best hybrids. I think GM should make hybrid Equinox and/or Traverse, but it won’t happen. The last hybrid GM sold, the Malibu was not competitive with the Camry I bought. It got far lower mpg, and the trunk was partly lost to the battery, while Toyota puts it under the rear seat cushion. GM has a “specialty car,” namely Corvette that I like a lot, but none of the current GM mainstream products appeal to me much.

    I’ll be curious about Lyriq, and could be interested, if and when I have home charging available.

  16. Dave Says:

    With all those geeks, nerds, engineers, scientists working on battery design surely there will be better faster bigger cheaper batteries coming to the forefront hence batteries that are a 10th the price of 10 years ago perhaps we can look forward to a repeat performance

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    16 Current batteries are barely over a 10th the price of 10 years ago, but the price is now going up, because of the cost of raw materials. LiFeP, or whatever it is, should help with that, in using fewer really expensive materials.

  18. XA351GT Says:
    Transit Super Van 1971

  19. joe Says:

    related to 12

    Here is an example of GM making things better that drastically needed attention.
    Yes, this is the new GM under the control of Mary Barra. You will start believing as time goes by.

  20. merv Says:

    I believe GM has hit a home run with the new Cadillac’s and are “in the hunt” to bypass others who have out gunned them the past number of years

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    18 Kind of like a Barracuda “hemi under glass,” only a van. Pretty cool.

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21 continued—except Supervan was intended to turn, and not just go in a straight line.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The van was good at lifting its inside front wheel in turns, but without rolling. I’m surprised it wasn’t quicker, though, 14.5 sec quarter mile. Some front drive cars are quicker.

  24. Sean Wagner Says:

    I needed to know more about the Qilin battery pack architecture. At 1:41, you can clearly see the cooling channels interleaved with the cells. Perfectly sensible, I’m not quite sure what’s really new here. It just works.

  25. XA351GT Says:

    Yeah , it was shaped like a brick that didn’t help and geared for top speed rather than off the line acceleration.Still impressive for 1971.

  26. XA351GT Says:

    23 even the 1966 Ford GT that the engine came from only ran the 1/4 in 12.1 sec and only sat 40 inches off the ground and a lot slippery than the pill box on wheels.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    25,26 The tires of that time wouldn’t have helped either, especially if street tires.

  28. Bob Wilson Says:

    “5 Is anything in the linked article untrue?”
    - “the emperor really is walking about while wearing no clothes”
    - “the sole arbiter of what people could and could not say on social media”
    - “a group of dissatisfied SpaceX employees” some are former employees
    - ” the company is not living up to its oft-stated “No Asshole” policy and its zero-tolerance sexual harassment policy”
    - “racketeering for touting Dogecoin and driving up its price”
    - “neglected to tackle complaints about workplace discrimination and harassment”
    - “In retaliation, he decided to move Tesla headquarters to Texas” a business friendly state.
    - “entire ethnic minority to being virtual slaves” having nothing to do with Tesla in China

    The article spews anti-Musk claims common in the TESLAQ and SeekingAlpha communities. Small wonder that Musk is changing the Tesla lawer team approach to react to such lies and mischaracterizations.

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28 Other than that, the author of the article is a big fan of Elon. Yeah, the article was kind of biased.

  30. XA351GT Says:

    Kit @ 27 very true and they looked to be 13 inch.

  31. Sean Wagner Says:

    XA351GT – Neat, that Supervan. With a bottomless frunk too! Fantastic sounds, augmented by some body shakes. Thank you for posting!