AD #3369 – VW EV Strategy Now at Risk; Renault Isolates Battery Pack with Foam; GM Ready to Answer Your EV Questions

July 25th, 2022 at 11:41am

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Listen to “AD #3369 – VW EV Strategy Now at Risk; Renault Isolates Battery Pack with Foam; GM Ready to Answer Your EV Questions” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 9:19

0:08 VW Fires CEO Diess, EV Strategy Now at Risk
3:10 Cadillac Celestiq Design Details
4:08 Renault Isolates Battery Pack with Foam
4:54 Jaguar Develops Predictive Regen
6:42 Toyota Forgoes Supplier Price Cuts
7:27 Xpeng VTOL One Step Closer
7:55 GM Ready to Answer Your EV Questions

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39 Comments to “AD #3369 – VW EV Strategy Now at Risk; Renault Isolates Battery Pack with Foam; GM Ready to Answer Your EV Questions”

  1. GM Veteran Says:

    Not sure that I see $300,000 worth of automotive excellence in the Celestique, but I am not a target customer anyway. Still getting used to the styling. Interesting that the back of the car has the most riveting design work. And, I am pleased that Cadillac did not resort to gimmicks like a steering yoke to try to imply a higher level of luxury and technology. It will be interesting to see what they offer in terms of the level of customer personalization and what Cadillac dealers can sell them.

  2. motorman Says:

    VW Fires CEO Diess. mary at gm better pay attention.pushing EVs is pissing off GM cistomers like me who has owned 30+ GM cars and triucks and 11 new corvettes. i believe biden sold her a bill of goods that he was going to force everyone into EVs

  3. Lex Says:

    I have a couple of questions: How does the weight of the battery in BEV’s effect stopping distance in wet, snowy and icy conditions? What are the recommended tires for BEV’s in the northern half of the country?

  4. Buzzerd Says:

    @2 I don’t think she ” pushing EV’s” She’s reacting to the market and to government mandates. I don’t know why that would piss anyone off, if you don’t want one then don’t buy one.

  5. Drew Says:

    I see 7 displays in the Celestiq… three in the back seat (left front seat back, right front seat back, and center console) and four in the front (the 55” display as mentioned, a center stack display, a left outside mirror/camera display and a right outside mirror/camera display).

    A possible 8th display may exist in the digital rear view mirror.

  6. Buzzerd Says:

    @3 battery weight or other weight affect stopping distance the same I would think, all things being equal a lighter vehicle stops in a shorter distance.

  7. Wim van Acker Says:

    @3, 6: the recommended tires of the Ford Mustang Mach-e, of which we have two in our family, are All Season tires. We did not like the traction when the first snow fell last winter, so we bought a set of new wheels with winter tires for each vehicle. With winter tires: phenomenal ride and handling in snow.

  8. Lex Says:

    I believe Tesla is very wise to keep refining the Model’s 3 & Y since these two vehicles are their bread and butter. Once Tesla is able secure enough raw materials for vehicles and batteries at a substantial saving the prices of their vehicles will come down. Unfortunately, by the time GM and Ford are able to ramp up their BEV production to make a profit the Chinese BEV’s will be in North America and decimate the both of them. Stellantis will receive help from the EU in order to save those jobs. I see another around of automotive bailouts in the not to distant future if the Chinese OEM’s are allowed to sell their vehicles without Trump Tariffs being imposed.

  9. GM Veteran Says:

    #2 GM announced their EV goals in the early days of the Trump administration. The Biden administration is simply setting pollution reduction goals, which is the responsible thing to do. GM determined the best way to meet those goals was to convert their product line to a mostly or all EV mix over the next 15 years. Most other automakers have come to the same conclusion. Don’t worry, there will be plenty of ICE vehicles for you to buy for a long time to come.

  10. XA351GT Says:

    @ #4 What market is that ? the majority of the “market “have the same opinion as motorman. If you supplement ICE with EVs until all the issues are worked out with range , charging times and price then you start to phase out what works. The New green deal BS this administration is foisting upon the companies and buying public is like walking the plank. EV is the still not ready for primetime player.

  11. Lambo2015 Says:

    Not sure that I see $300,000 for the Celestique either but I wish GM good luck in there pursuit to lead the luxury market. Will be a rough road if they also want to have volume sales. MB saw what having a mass market car can do to the brand and it moves metal, but at a cost to the exclusivity of the brand. I’m not sure Cadillac can high end and keep affordable models around and achieve their goal. I would expect the Celestique will have any paint option you want like Porsche did. Since they will be hand built anyway they could offer any color interior and exterior a customer could want.

  12. Wim van Acker Says:

    @10 let’s properly define your “majority of the market”. The majority of the U.S. vehicle owners/lessees market are not interested in driving an EV according to recent research.

    The rest of the world, the real market, has moved towards transfer to EVs. Chinese OEMs do not even invest in ICE passenger vehicles; they leave it for the JVs with foreign OEMs. The European automakers are moving towards electrification. The world’s most valuable automaker TESLA is 100% EV.

    What you call New Green Deal BS has been endorsed by 196 countries. The U.S. is the only industrialized country not on board. The U.S. also has the lowest percentage of students in engineering and sciences, scores number 50 in international competitions of high school students, and so on.

    I have posted the following before: let’s be very happy that we have brilliant visionary leaders who can invent and implement like Elon Musk in our country. If we would only have people like you our collective ignorance would make us uncompetitive and obsolete on the world stage.

  13. Wim van Acker Says:

    @11 I agree with you that that applies to most of GM. Some other brands are so strong that they can afford it. The Mercedes brand is so strong that they can charge premium prices for S and E Classes, as well as SL’s while also have the Mercedes brand on panel vans, lower priced passenger cars and commercial trucks. The same applies to GM’s Chevrolet: Corvettes can be charged at a very profitable price point at a dealership that sells Suburban and Cruz.

  14. Lambo2015 Says:

    9-10 The next 5 to 10 years is really going to be telling when it comes to EVs, IMO. In that time we could have two administration changes and how that affects gas prices and climate change policies will really solidify the rate of EV adoption in the US.

    On the current path, which I believe is aggressive and almost forced. People may be pushed into an EV too early and realize it doesn’t work for them. That will have a negative affect. The transition needs to mirror demand and technology. Improvements seem to be made daily and there is no doubt EVs have their place. However right now they also create some problems that need solved and they do not work as a 100% replacement for ICEs. So transitioning them in is a balancing act yet politicians don’t see the forest through the trees. They just see the end goal without the effort it takes to get there. My 2 cents!

  15. motorman Says:

    #12 the rest of the world you drive 200 miles you are in the next country and most likely need a passport so an EV will work for them. i drive 400 miles round trip to get to our camp to ride our ATVs and snowmobiles. i would like to know how many of the people who are hot to trot for EVs even drive or let alone own a car.

  16. John McElroy Says:

    No one is being forced to buy an EV. If you don’t want one don’t buy one. Ford had to cut off orders for the F-150 Lightning when it hit 200,000 because it couldn’t keep up with demand. No one forced anyone to order that truck.

  17. Lambo2015 Says:

    16 No one is forced yet. However with plans in the works to not allow any ICE sales after 2035 that’s going to pretty much force people.

  18. motorman Says:

    #16 i wonder if they cut off the orders because it was cutting into F-150 ICE models where they make all the money and was hurting their bottom line.

  19. Wim van Acker Says:

    @15 you clearly do not know the world:
    1 China is 3.7 million square miles, the U.S. is 3.5 MM sqm
    2 practically all Europeans have a passport so the non-existing need for a passport does not limit their scope (just like between states in the U.S. the borders are open). EU territory is 1.7 MM sqm, so not really small.

    Then : your 400 miles round trip would not preclude you from owning an EV, provided you own more than one vehicle.

    All TESLA owners and Mustang Mach-e owners own their vehicle since leasing those is unattractive or not offered.

  20. XA351GT Says:

    John @ #16 Yeah that was before the TFLT got theirs and tested it on their road trip home and their towing test where it couldn’t drag a empty trailer more than 85 miles on a full charge. These are fine if you never do real truck stuff with it.When you begin taking away options and forcing people down one path what would you call it ? If i want to buy a station wagon that’s not built by Volvo or Subaru who do you go to in the US market. Want to buy a Ford sedan new ? Good luck, they don’t sell or make any here. How is that not forcing you to buy whatever is left? The same thing will happen when manufacturers stop building ICE as many say they will. How is that not forcing someone to buy a EV ?

  21. XA351GT Says:

    19 leasing probably isn’t offered , because of the high cost a battery replacement,There is little resale value if you know you’ll have to dump a crap ton of money into it. There is a story going around the web about a Focus EV purchased used with about 66K miles for $11K. Six months after purchase the battery died with a replacement cost stated at $15K. More than what they bought the car for.

  22. Lambo2015 Says:

    21 Proponents for EVs will say the same thing could happen to a Gas Focus and have the engine blow up six months after purchase. But you can get an engine replaced for far less than 15K. At least for now. The raw material cost of batteries is really going to be a problem for EVs too. Having enough, getting enough and the costs involved are yet to be seen.

  23. motorman Says:

    #21 just shows that EVs are a compact car with a $15K/$20K gas tank

  24. Wim van Acker Says:

    @21 this is just my guess, so not based on actual knowledge: leasing may not be offered because of the uncertainty about battery life and about replacement cost at this stage.

    The absolute cost are not an impediment to leasing options: my friend offers leasing of Ferraris and the likes. The lessees have enough money to purchase, but opt for leasing to get a deductible business expense. The leasing rate is increased as much as they consider acceptable by the IRS to get to a lower residual value after the lease, and at that moment the vehicle is purchased privately.

    My friend also offers leasing for yachts and planes, just to underscore that high cost are not an impediment to leasing options, but uncertainty is IMHO.

  25. Joe G Says:

    16 But $4.50 to $7.00 a gallon gas will, if not force, strong arm many into an EV. This is the green new deal plan from day one 1/20/21. Gas prices make or break an economy, at least ours. Remember back in 2012,2013 when gas prices shot up. At Ford the hybrid sedans were what everyone looked for. Then the gas prices came down and back to normal sales, you could not give the hybrids away. Now the pendulum swings back. Carefull what you wish for, how do we replace gas tax revenue when 60-80% of vehicles are electric, oh my, price of electricity going up again…

  26. wmb Says:

    While I can work with the over all shape of the vehicle, but the hatch back area just looks like after thought add on! IMHO, the look of the vehicle would work best as a notch back, or regular sedan. A four door coupe design, like the Panamera or 9 Series, could work! For what GM/Cadillac is looking to ask for this vehicle, it just does not look as stately and refined as RR Ghost and Phantom that share a similar price point (or even the past vehicles it wishes to emulate), regardless if they plan only to build a limited number of of a hundred or so. I personally would have rather saw them build a SUV with all these features and asking price! I have read that GM higher ups, feel that the Celestiq will draw others to the Cadillac brand. The thought that this type of vehicle, built this way, if it is successful (I’m sure it will be, mind you), would could draw others to the Cadillac brand, is like saying that if the Corvette Z06 is a success, that will bring more people in to buy a Chevy Cruze, Tracks or Equinox?! This buyers of this vehicle will not purchase or service them by coming into a Cadillac showroom, so what connection will the have to any other Cadillac vehicles, even its other BEV stablemate, the Lyriq? This vehicle will be success, but I don’t see how this is going to translate much to resurrect the brand to days at its former glory.

    It is unfortunate that VW CEO was let go. It just seemed that he may have attempting to do too much too fast, or too much at the same time! There is a reason that a brand new vehicle model, may retain/use the power train of a vehicle that is already in production. Then, when the vehicle gets to its mid-cycle refresh, that’s when new engines and powertrains are introduced! Then, those engines are carried over to the new platform, four years later. VW built their MEB EV from scratch, with a brand new electrical architecture, along with the ability for over the air updates! By contrast Tesla at several years to get things together before they introduce the Model S! For VW to get that all right, just out the box and not experience any problems, on the first go round, is a high expectation! Then, while they’re in the process of rolling that out, they introduce a very new, completely different electrical architecture for a almost completely different vehicle platform. There was just a lot going on at one time, and he didn’t think that there would be push back?

    Regarding buyers being forced to purchase BEVs, as John said, mo one is being forced to. While automakers are making promises to do things at a later date, makers are only going to built what people buy! As someone pointed out, there may be as many as, in the US, three presidential administrations before many of the promises that these automatmakers have been have made going to affect. As the political landscape and policy change, so will the product mix! Ford, GM and the Chrysler side of Stelantis, do not built sedans and wagons, because customers are buyingSUV/CUV/Crossovers and they make more money selling them! The reason they want to BEVs, is because it will cost them less money to build them, yet they can charger more money for them! Look at what people are willing to pay for Teslas and Lucid Airs! You don’t think factored into GMs decision to sell the Celastiq for $300+ thousand dollars?! If early adopters are willing to spend nearly $150,000 for a Model S Plaid and $200,000 for an Air Dream Edition, how much will they pay for a hand built, one of a kind, limited edition Cadillac?!

    Also, regarding the F-150 and the Lightning, I have a brother who works a the paint shop at the show in where they build the two trucks. He said said that they can’t build enough of either truck! He said another reason they stopped taking order for the Lightning, is due to the fact that both the F-150 and the Lightning are set for redesigns. If they didn’t stop orders of the current Lightning, they’d still be trying to catch up orders on the old truck, long after the new truck was introduced! A nice problem to have, if your an OEM!

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    3,6,7 Braking and handling depend on the tire compound, and tire size being appropriate for the weight of the vehicle. Porsche Taycan and Model S handle and stop as well as some much lighter cars, like BMW 3 series and M-B E-Class, but they have bigger tires.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26 GM and Chrysler group are building sedans. Charger, 300, and Malibu are sedans, and are still built, as far as I can tell.

    25 It’s still “to be determined” how EVs will be taxed, to make up for lost gas tax. The fairest way would be to charge by miles driven, maybe bracketed by vehicle weight, but what is the best way to do it, that is convenient for the user, but difficult to hack/cheat on?

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    20 An EV truck is clearly not good for pulling trailers on road trips, but would would work ok for the more usual “truck stuff” of driving to work, and going to Walmart for groceries. Also, the Lightning or other upcoming EV pickups would be fine for towing a back hoe to a local construction site, where you might drive a maximum of 40 miles in a day, and can then charge it overnight.

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    My friend just drove his Model S for the second time from the Seattle area to central Indiana. He is retired, and generally not in a hurry, so he doesn’t mind spending the extra down time. Also, He got in the the tail end of the “free charging for life” with his Model S, which makes things more attractive. Yeah, he won’t be saving money, buying a ~$100K car, even with no fuel cost for road trips, or local driving if he wants to bother to go to the Tesla chargers.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26 To me, the $300K Cadillac should look more like a Rolls-Royce, as you allude. I’m not in that market, though.

  32. Sean Wagner Says:

    30 Kit – Early Norwegian Tesla customers have been driving their Model S’s down to Spain for years now. Oslo to Alicante is about 1,800 miles. Tromsø to Lisbon about 3,000.

    I know an early Model 3 ‘adopter’ here in Switzerland who travels regularly to Amsterdam. You want to add an extra stop and stay in the optimal 30-80% recharging range.

    Incidentally, Tesla now outsells both BMW and Mercedes in Switzerland, and is close to catching up to number one Volkswagen (H1 ’22 numbers).

  33. wmb Says:

    #28.) You are right, but I think you get my point. At one time all of the the Detroit Three had several sedans for every brand. Now, Ford has none, and GM and Chrysler the few (many be a couple more) that you mention. Yet, when you look at the trucks and SUV/CUVs that they sell, it’s pretty clear that they are building what customers are buying.

    #31.) I’m not saying that the Celestiq needs to look like a RR, for it looks good, but IMHO it doesn’t look as regal as a Bentley or Rolls Royce, to ask that kind of money. ANY automaker can make an expensive vehicle and justify their reason for asking big dollars for it. GM/Cadillac have produced a worth vehicle for the $200K+ club. Yet, the Air Dream Edition has luxury, 1000 hp and 400 miles of range (the most of any EV sedan on the market), as a qualifier for the $175K that they are asking. If the Celestiq has three quarters of the Hummer’s max power and better then 350 miles of range, an asking price of $300,000 makes a little more since to me.

  34. wmb Says:

    #28.) You are right, but I think you get my point. At one time all of the the Detroit Three had several sedans for every brand. Now, Ford has none, and GM and Chrysler the few (many be a couple more) that you mention. Yet, when you look at the trucks and SUV/CUVs that they sell, it’s pretty clear that they are building what customers are buying.

    #31.) I’m not saying that the Celestiq needs to look like a RR, for it looks good, but IMHO it doesn’t look as regal as a Bentley or Rolls Royce, to ask that kind of money. ANY automaker can make an expensive vehicle and justify their reason for asking big dollars for it. GM/Cadillac have produced a worth vehicle for the $200K+ club. Yet, the Air Dream Edition has luxury, 1000 hp and 400 miles of range (the most of any EV sedan on the market), as a qualifier for the $175K that they are asking. If the Celestiq has three quarters of the Hummer’s max power and better then 350 miles of range, an asking price of $300,000 makes a little more since to me.

  35. Kit Gerhart Says:

    32 I’ve heard that a number of Tesla chargers in Europe are at interesting places to stop, more than just a place to get lunch or coffee. That would be nice for those trips from Norway to Spain.

  36. Lambo2015 Says:

    I agree with what you guys are saying on how Cadillac maybe should have gone for a fully loaded SUV for this 300K venture. Seeing how sedans are falling out of favor and CUV/SUVs seem to be the new sedan.
    However I would guess that Cadillac figured it was easier to design a sleek new sedan than trying to put a luxury spin on a SUV design. Lets face it they all have the same basic shape and it would probably require some very radical and risky design features to stand out in the SUV crowd. So they probably made the right decision but as mentioned I’m not so sure it can trickle down to the lesser models sales.

    27 Kit I was going to say the same thing. Lots of people think of stopping a vehicle is just mass and motion = stopping distance. So the heavier the vehicle =longer stopping. Makes sense but that assumes same tires and brakes and as you mentioned tire compound.
    I have seen a few You tube videos of semi-trucks with trailers stop incredibly quick. So yea I wouldn’t say you need more room to stop an EV over a gas vehicle. However you may need larger more expensive tires that may wear out faster but you can get it stopped in a safe distance.

  37. Lambo2015 Says:

    As for the forced EV push discussion. Yeah no one is being forced to buy anything right now. And they cant force a purchase. Just limit your options until you comply. Like right now, if I wanted to buy a small car that was diesel here in the states. What are my options? I’m not forced to buy a gas car or EV. But emissions and cheating on those emissions has all but killed the small diesel car. (be it good or bad)
    So those consumers that want them. Are they forced to buy Gas or Electric or is it considered choice by the fact your never forced to buy a new vehicle.

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    37 The thing that annoys me about the US market is the lack of car-height wagons. I was forced to get a too-tall, too-heavy Highlander to get a vehicle with ~7 feet of floor length for my toys, when an 8 inch lower wagon would be more efficient, and handle better.

  39. JWH Says:

    #36 – I always used to say those signs “Caution Air Brakes” should have been on the front of semis so you could read them in your mirr0r & don’t hit the brakes too fast. Stopping distances for semi’s are generally much greater than cars.

    #38 – Even though we used to have an anti-Volvo person on here, I still like our 2004 V70R. Great 4th car when we need it for certain circumstances.

    per