AD #3454 – Tesla Slowing Down in China; Faraday May Have No Future; BEV Plants Going Next to ICE Plants

November 22nd, 2022 at 11:58am

Audio-only version:
Listen to “AD #3454 – Tesla Slowing Down in China; Faraday May Have No Future; BEV Plants Going Next to ICE Plants” on Spreaker.

Follow us on social media:

Instagram Twitter Facebook

Runtime: 9:29

0:00 Tesla Slowing Down in China
0:50 COVID Could Choke China’s Economy
1:45 Faraday May Have No Future
3:06 Speed Costs Money, How Fast Do You Want to Go?
3:46 GM Ramps Up EVs in China
4:39 Wuling Tries New Assembly Technique
6:23 China Allows No Driver in AVs
6:56 Mazda Flies Solo with EVs
7:52 BEV Plants Going Next to ICE Plants

Visit our sponsors to thank them for their support of Autoline Daily: Bridgestone, Intrepid Control Systems, and Schaeffler.

»Subscribe to Podcast |

5661 rss-logo-png-image-68050 stitcher-icon youtube-logo-icon-65475

Thanks to our partner for embedding Autoline Daily on its website:

27 Comments to “AD #3454 – Tesla Slowing Down in China; Faraday May Have No Future; BEV Plants Going Next to ICE Plants”

  1. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I wouldn’t pay extra for 1 second quicker 0-60 time, but I might avoid buying a car from a company that would have the gall to try to charge $1200 a year extra for what is already part of the car.

  2. ChuckGrenci Says:

    1, Couldn’t say it better myself.

    Good on manufacturer’s building near existing plants; giving people with ICE jobs a little more security that they, in all likelihood, won’t need to look for another job if the plant closes or changes operations.

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Tesla may need to back off of some of their price increases in the U.S. too. There is actual inventory at the store near me, and their web site shows “Est. Delivery: Nov – Dec 2022″ for most models.

  4. matttheviewer Says:

    Mercedes simply follows the Euro brand’s craving for subscription based services, which frankly are repellant.

  5. Buzzerd Says:

    I don’t have a problem paying for a performance upgrade- once! If I’ve paid for the vehicle then it’s mine, in my view, so this subscription nonsense to use the the thing I’ve paid for is just that, nonsense.

  6. JWH Says:

    I would consider paying extra for improved performance as part of the initial vehicle purchase price (I would view it as an option I could purchase or skip), however, paying extra as an ongoing annual fee – No way.

    If fee covered extended warranty along with improved performance, it could sway decision.

  7. Lambo2015 Says:

    We keep hearing lots of excuses about why EV sales might be slowing in China and yet no mention that just maybe the folks that want EVs have them. Maybe the demand isnt 100% of the population and maybe the demand wont continue to be there as predicted.

    China will cut there own throat with another shutdown. So much evidence has come to light that the shutdowns did little if anything to help that if they do it again its by their own stupidity.

    Farewell future which some here said was a ponzi scheme all along. I mean if you cant get your car into production after 8 years then you cant blame investors for bailing.

    No one should give MB a dime for more speed and send a clear message that we are not going to sign up for annual fees on a car we own. Making it a standard practice. Sadly some fools with more money than brains wont care and will gladly commit to this but with any luck its very few.

  8. John McElroy Says:

    This works out to $3 a day, assuming you stomp on it every day.

    What happens when that cement mixer is bearing down on you and your Mercedes can’t get out of its way in time? The plaintiff attorneys could have a field day with this.

  9. Drew Says:

    I agree with #1 Kit’s comment, as that is a decision I’d make at purchase time. Yet, I can understand a buyer of my used vehicle may have other priorities and may want to make a one-time payment for an OTA of different attributes. Monthly or yearly… no way.

  10. thredd Says:

    Building battery plants next to ICE engine plants makes a lot of sense. It allows OEMs to move their work force back to ICE engine plants in the future if for some reason they switch to hydrogen or a combination of both. Keeps their workforce very flexible in an unknown future.

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The performance I’ve recently paid extra for, once, is fuel efficiency with a Camry and Highlander hybrid.

    Generally, I haven’t paid extra for more speed in many years. My Cayman is a base car. I had no desire to pay ~$12K extra for the S, with an extra 50 hp, and maybe a half second quicker than the already quick 0-60 time. For $27K extra for the GTS 4.0, you get 94 extra hp, and more importantly, two extra cylinders, but with the GTS, the car, with a few options, is $100K, too much money for that car.

    As far as “performance subscriptions,” Porsche doesn’t seem to be doing that, but you can sure run the price up with a few regular options.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Maybe there will be “hackers” that will get you the extra performance from the Benzes for a one time charge of about $100.

  13. Albemarle Says:

    I believe in many areas in China, the government severely restricts ICE sales but allows EVs because of their incredible air pollution problems. So I don’t think Tesla EV sales drops are because people are tired of EVs, I think it’s because there are over 100 EV manufacturers, many supported by local and regional governments, many with half decent product at much lower cost than Tesla.

    If China develops a “buy local” attitude similar to “buy American”, Tesla will have even more problems.

  14. Albemarle Says:

    11. If people would pay ~$12k for 50 more horsepower, that’s just pre-paying a 10 year fee. Keeping the car for less saves money. Of course resale value needs to be considered.

  15. Albemarle Says:

    I don’t believe there is a single car on sale in North America currently that is unsafe because of lack of power. We just rented a Kona and it was slow but perfectly capable of getting up to speed (if the idiot in front of us wouldn’t daudle on the on-ramp).

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    15 Even the VW 1.9 TDI I had years ago had adequate power for all normal driving, even though it was probably slower than the slowest of today’s cars. It probably took 12-15 seconds 0-60, but a fully loaded tractor trailer takes about 100 seconds, and they go down the road pretty well.

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14 Yeah, resale is definitely a factor. I suspect the 6 cylinder 718 Caymans and Boxsters will hold their value very well, and maybe even the S models would hold most of the $12K extra.

  18. Joe Says:

    It looks like Tesla will not have a fan base in China like it has in the USA. I always thought Tesla cars were overhype the USA….like to the point, no one else was smart enough to equal them. The Chinese will not overhype a product that is not worthy.

  19. wmb Says:

    The current ICE Buicks look so good and the BEV Chevy Blazer, it was a real let down to see the Chinese Buick version of the EVs that will be coming here! I don’t understand how the styling has changed so much what Buick now offers, to what we see here as the E5?! While Buicks aren’t my cup of tea, one can not help but see their current crop of crossovers are the best styled versions of the vehicle that they replaced! I would go as far as to say, as GM’s premium brand, they look better and have much better styling then GM’s Cadillac luxury brand. To just go back to being Ho-hum, is very, very disappointing. Especially, after the amazing concepts that Buick has shown off lately, many of which were designed at GM’s China design studio. The current Envision and smaller crossovers were styled at that design house, buy now the E5 is the best that they can come up with? SMH!

    When Mercedes introduced the EQS and E, many were let down by who far off the AMG versions were, when compared to the high power versions of the Model S and Air. Now we know why! I see to lines of though on this approach. With so many OEMs so set on creating subscription services into the vehicle purchase, it seems that some are throwing different things under that banner and waiting to see what stick! Second, as those of a certain age, age out of the new car market, and younger buyer come of age, these newer customers may take a different view to in-car-subscription-service. I do not stream music in my vehicle, but others stream music, podcasts and other this in their vehicle and gladly pay a fee for that type of enjoyment! Consider this, a person leases an EQ with the amenities that come with that Class and package. When the lease is up, that trade it in and a another customer buys it second hand as a “Certified Per-Owned” vehicle. Because they got it for such a nice price, maybe they might splurge for the extra power subscription service? Or maybe another customer get a deal on a demo (if there even is such a thing, in this pre-order world we now live in), and decides to get the power subscription upgrade? Me, personally, feel that a buyer should not pay more to unlock and use, tech that they already paid for when they bought the vehicle!

    Looks like someone may be able to get the intellectual property of Faraday Future for a song! They would not be the first company founded on a good idea, that could not make the business side of things work out for them, sadly. Maybe if Mazda was to hold out for a little bit longer, maybe they could purchase FF hard and software, at a price that would be cheaper then using the tech supplied by tier one suppliers?! This way they could own and develop the tech as they see fit, while not having to have spun a lions share on research and development as many other OEMs have done on EV tech?

  20. Drew Says:

    @13 – You’ll have to go back a few generations to find any significant Buy American sentiment. Sure, a few pockets exist, but just a quick look at vehicles on the road, clothing, electronics, basic smaller goods, etc. tells the story. That “revelation” hit hard during COVID when a worried population learned critical PPE had been outsourced.

  21. MJB Says:

    #12 Sounds like a good side-hustle, Kit. Though, I’m sure M.B. would find a way to tell if the limiter had been breached when it comes time to honor a drivetrain warranty issue.

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21 Yeah, you probably wouldn’t want to do a rogue software enhancement while on warranty. You’d barely notice the difference anyway, and most people would rarely use it. I rarely “floor it” in my fast cars, or even my slow one.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    20 It seems that “buy American” sentiment, and brand loyalty are at their peak with pickup trucks in the U.S. Most buyers probably don’t even know, or care where their vehicles came from, whether a Toyota made in Kentucky, or a Buick made in China.

  24. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I just saw an article from GM Authority that reported on some of GM’s China strategy that a new XT5 would be a China only model. If Tesla’s sales continue to dip and not just an anomaly, what that might say about the continuation of ICE models (for a little longer). Link:
    Perhaps Cadillac needs to ease on their all-electric mantra or at least continue to keep ICE viable (instead of their seemingly all or nothing approach).

  25. Lambo2015 Says:

    23 The “buy American” sentiment is still somewhat strong in the midwest. So many generations of families were involved in the big 3 automotive either directly or with supplier jobs and as with anything were taught the strong union mentality that the UAW promoted for years and still does.
    To your point the “Domestic” lines have been blurred much more in the last couple decades. Foreign manufacturers have set up shop here in the states and much of the domestic cars parts have been outsourced to foreign suppliers. Almost every vehicle is a globally sourced combination of parts. So to say, “buy American” now has a real fuzzy definition. Its difficult to push a hardline agenda when the definition of that line is so blurry anymore. It just doesnt have the same meaning it did back in the day.
    I agree with 13 Albemarle that Tesla sales are probably down more in China not because of competition more than anything. Tesla is more expensive than many more options available to buyers there and much like here in the states I’m not sure if the company being American or Chinese makes that much difference. Its what everyone has predicted for years.
    Tesla undoubtably conquered the EV market. They had the right combination that appealed to buyers and did outstanding. However thats while EVs accounted for 3% of the global market. As everyone starts kicking out EVs and some that are cheaper or even better Tesla has no where to go but down. Its hard to get on top. Its even harder to stay on top. Things mentioned in todays show like a dealer network and service will start to make a difference. Tesla has a cult like following and was basically the main event. They could get away with the poor body fit and sub-par assembly and not having a traditional dealer network. But now they will start to see where as costly as that maybe it too helps sells cars. Tesla had better adapt quickly to the changing market or their day on top will be short lived. Thankfully folks like Larry are no longer on this site cause I’m not saying I want to see Tesla fall from grace. But being the leader of a segment that is only 3% of the big picture vs the leader of the over-all picture is two totally different things. Good luck Tesla.
    P.S. I dont foresee EVs being 100% of the market anytime soon. So that big picture might only be 50% of global sales. But still much more than currently.

  26. Lambo2015 Says:

    Correction 25.I agree with 13 Albemarle that Tesla sales are probably down more in China because of competition.. Not sure how the NOT got in there.

  27. Marshy Says:

    …BEV production beside existing plants also means you don’t have to truck batteries and motors from Nevada to Fremont through mountains in winter.