AD #3463 – Alfa Romeo Kisses the ICE Goodbye; BorgWarner Spins Off ICE Business; VW Modifies MEB Platform
December 7th, 2022 at 11:42am
Listen to “AD #3463 – Alfa Romeo Kisses the ICE Goodbye; BorgWarner Spins Off ICE Business; VW Modifies MEB Platform” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 10:14
0:08 Alfa Romeo Kisses the ICE Goodbye
1:02 GM to Install 40,000 L2 Chargers
1:53 Europe Sees Strong New Car Sales
3:14 VW Modifies MEB Platform for Bigger Batteries
4:59 Apple Scales Back AV Car
5:50 Uber Launches Robotaxis In Las Vegas
6:57 BYD To Build EVs In Europe
7:23 Cadillac Celestiq Chief Engineer on Autoline
7:58 Polestar OTA Adds 68 Horsepower
8:47 BorgWarner Spins Off ICE Business
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ALFA ROMEO KISSES THE ICE GOODBYE
Alfa Romeo is going to kiss the internal combustion engine goodbye. At an event in Detroit yesterday, Vincent Noirbent, the Vice President of production, planning and marketing for Alfa Romeo, confirmed that the Tonale will be the last vehicle it develops with an IC engine. From 2025 forward the company is going all electric. In the U.S., the Tonale will be offered only as a PHEV, including a 1.3-liter turbo, a 90-kilowatt electric motor on the rear axle and a 15.5 kilowatt-hour battery that provides 30 miles of driving range. The Tonale is a C-class sized crossover that will fit in below the D-Class Alfa Stelvio. It debuts in Europe in the first quarter of next year, and will reach the North American market in the second quarter.
GM TO INSTALL 40,000 L2 CHARGERS
General Motors wil install 40,000 Level II EV public charging stations in the U.S. and Canada, together with its dealers. Each dealer will get up to 10 chargers to install around the communities where they’re located. Dealers will work with their local communities to figure out the best place to install the chargers. And the chargers will be available for any EV, not just those from GM, and GM will pay for the installation. The idea is to make EV chargers available in rural areas where there aren’t any public chargers and in urban areas where people who live in apartments can’t charge at home. These are 19.2 kilowatt chargers, which is nearly three times faster than the 7.3 kilowatt Level II chargers you typically see in place today.
EUROPE SEES STRONG NEW CAR SALES
Energy shortages, raging inflation, the war in Ukraine…all you hear out of Europe these days is bad news. So we’re happy to report some good news for a change. It looks like new car sales turned the corner last month. LMC Automotive reports that sales jumped 19% in November, and showed broad gains in all the major markets, including Germany, the UK, France, Italy and Spain. And LMC expects sales to grow more than 9% next year. Even so, the market has a long way to go for a complete recovery. Sales should hit nearly 11 million vehicles next year, but that’s still 3 million short of what was sold in 2019.
VW MODIFIES MEB PLATFORM FOR BIGGER BATTERIES
Volkswagen is working to bridge the gap between its current MEB-based EVs and its future electric vehicles. As we recently reported, VW is delaying Project Trinity from 2026 to at least 2028. This was supposed to completely transform the way it manufactures EVs, the time it takes to build them and would spawn a new architecture, called Scalable Systems Platform or SSP. All that is still in the pipeline, but VW will also invest 460 million euro into its Wolfsburg plant, which will start making the refreshed ID.3 next year. That ramp up will be completed in 2025, which will pave the way for an all-electric SUV being added to the plant in 2026. That SUV will be built on a modified version of the MEB platform, what VW is calling MEB+. It says it tried to free up as much space for the battery as it could. Current MEB vehicles have up to a 77-kWh battery and get up to 550 kilometers or about 340 miles of range. It doesn’t give a capacity for MEB+, but says they’ll have up to 700 kilometers of range or about 430 miles. They’ll also get a boost in charging speed, going from 125 kW up to 175-200 kW. As well as upgrades to the digital infrastructure and automated driving functions. VW plans to launch 10 new EVs by 2026, including an entry-level model that will be priced around 25,000 euro.
APPLE SCALES BACK AV CAR
When it comes to autonomous cars, Ford and Volkswagen pretty much threw in the towel. Bloomberg reports Apple is scaling back the autonomous capability of its all-electric AV. It was supposed to be a pod-vehicle with a lounge interior where passengers face each other. Now, it will reportedly be a more traditional vehicle with a steering wheel and pedals. It was also supposed to have Level 5 self-driving capability but now that will only be on highways. That’s because Apple doesn’t believe it’s possible to develop a full AV with current technology. The vehicle will launch in 2026, a year later than expected. Apple was going to charge $120,000 for the vehicle but now it’s targeting a price below $100,000.
UBER LAUNCHES ROBOTAXIS IN LAS VEGAS
But while others are giving up or scaling back their AV efforts, GM Cruise and Google’s Waymo are forging ahead, and Uber along with an AV company called Motional are launching a robotaxi service in Las Vegas. Uber customers can now hail an AV, a modified version of the Hyundai IONIQ 5, with their Uber app. Initially there will be vehicle operators on board the vehicle but the companies plan on offering a fully driverless service next year. After they get established in Vegas, Los Angeles will be next.
BYD TO BUILD EVs IN EUROPE
BYD currently sells EVs in several markets in Europe and it plans to enter a couple more by the end of the year. And now the Executive Vice President of the company says the automaker plans to build EVs in the region but she did not provide any details, like where or when it will happen. But by opening a factory in Europe, BYD should be able to avoid any political backlash instead of importing cars from China.
CADILLAC CELESTIQ CHIEF ENGINEER ON AUTOLINE
Tomorrow at 3PM EST we’re going to learn a lot more about Cadillac’s $300,000+ hand-built Celestiq. And you’re invited to come along with us. Tony Roma, the chief engineer of the Celestiq, is going to be our special guest on Autoline After Hours. So what’s the difference between engineering a car for mass production, versus one that gets built by hand? That’s one thing we want to know. And if you’ve got any questions either post them in the comments section or send an email to viewermail@autoline.tv.
POLESTAR OTA ADDS 68 HORSEPOWER
Much like Mercedes, Polestar is offering its North American customers an over-the-air update for the Long Range Dual motor Polestar 2. For $1,195 they can add another 68 horsepower and 15 pound-feet of torque to bring the total output of the EV to 476 horses and 502 pound-feet. That shaves about half a second of its 0-60 time to 4.2 seconds, but Polestar says it’s especially noticeable when accelerating from 50 to 75 miles an hour. For that price that means you’ll pay about $17.57 per horsepower. So what do you think? Is that kind of OTA worth it?
BORGWARNER SPINS OFF ICE BUSINESS
Here’s a development that we’re going to see a lot more of. BorgWarner, a legacy supplier that’s been around for 94 years, is spinning off a chunk of its ICE business to concentrate on BEVs. Borg is spinning off its aftermarket business and its fuel delivery business, which makes fuel injectors, starters and alternators and other engine related parts. All told, the spin-off does about $3.3 billion a year in revenue with strong double-digit operating margins. For now the spin-off is called NewCo and will probably go public by the end of next year. The move frees up Borg to pour its resources into making parts for electric vehicles, including electric motors, inverters, gear reduction units and battery packs. It expects EV components to account for 25% of its business by 2025 and 45% by 2030 and this is a sign that the supplier community believes the future is all electric.
And that brings us to the end of today’s show. Thanks for joining us.
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Comments (29)
December 7th, 2022 at 12:28 pm
@GM L2 chargers in rural areas: those seem to me most suited for a boost charge, because a full charge would take at least three hours at a 19 kW power level.
December 7th, 2022 at 1:13 pm
So do all these companies like Alfa really think that everyone wants a EV? So what happens when sales dont materialize and the 2035 deadline gets pushed out a few more years? They wont have anything to offer. Think I would want a plan B.
Sean you can ask Celetiq chief Engineer if they maybe look at service any different on a hand built car vs production. Because I know that no one at GM looked at serviceability on the Traverse. Try and remove the belt tensioner pully. The bolt is so long it hits the sheet metal before the threads are out of the block.. So, drop the engine to change a pully?
December 7th, 2022 at 1:14 pm
For $1200, the performance increase of the Polestar 2 looks to be a good deal. With ICE, often the bigger or more powerful engine is several thousand dollars more expensive and you need to commit at the time of purchase.
Too bad you can’t spend $100 and have the performance over the weekend for when your brother-in-law is visiting…
December 7th, 2022 at 1:16 pm
Borg Warner such consider renaming their ICE Business spin off to “ICE-Borg”!
December 7th, 2022 at 1:23 pm
@2 while I agree with your logic I believe the situation of Alfa Romeo is as follows. It is a dying brand with a limited presence in Europe (Italy) and a tiny presence in the U.S. So going 100% EV means: either it flies and it could be a path to revival, or it does not fly and you give up the brand which was close to dead anyway.
December 7th, 2022 at 1:26 pm
On the Polestar upgrade, I don’t recall what the price was for performance upgrades from Tesla, but they seemed to be a lot more expensive than this. I agree, this seems like a reasonable price for what you receive.
December 7th, 2022 at 1:26 pm
@4 yes, and then ICE-Borg could merge with Titanic Distilleries, which would be a unique combination of an auto supplier and a liquor company.
December 7th, 2022 at 2:00 pm
If one of those GM chargers happened to be at my condo, or at one of the restaurants I frequently go to, it could help sell me an EV. For that to be likely, though, there would need to be hundreds, or more likely, thousands of the chargers.
December 7th, 2022 at 2:00 pm
8 That’s hundreds or thousands of chargers per dealer.
December 7th, 2022 at 2:01 pm
Not sure about the need for a Plan B within an all EV brand. If Alfa needed an ICE model, they could just do a ‘special edition’ of an ICE made by any of the other brands in the company. New grill, new taillights, some special graphics and voila, a new model.
December 7th, 2022 at 2:08 pm
I wouldn’t pay $1,195 for extra horsepower that the Polestar already has. I might pay a little to NOT have the “upgrade,” because it change the throttle pedal mapping to make it more sensitive. I like the opposite, better for driving smoothly.
December 7th, 2022 at 2:11 pm
BorgWarner should rename their ICE business ‘Geely’… although Oldmobile would be good too.
December 7th, 2022 at 2:21 pm
5 That makes sense, regarding Alfa. The had only about 26K sales in Europe in 2021, and 18K in the U.S. I doubt if they sell many in China, the other major market. It’s sad to see a historic brand like Alfa in their current state, but they have been declining badly for a number of years. As recently as 2011, they sold ~131K in Europe.
https://carsalesbase.com/europe-alfa-romeo/
December 7th, 2022 at 2:36 pm
1200 dollars for an upgrade in power, just for software, seems a little steep; if hardware additions were needed, then if would make sense. After all, the performance is already built right in (except for the code needed to unlock it).
December 7th, 2022 at 2:39 pm
13) I get so mad with Alfa for killing themselves over the past 30-40 years. I love their cars but hate their reliability. They became known for making cars with striking designs but very poor reliability and shockingly expensive repair costs.
EV will likely fix the one thing that has plagued Alfa for decades…Reliability. Won’t make them any less expensive, but they will likely be reliable at least. At that point they may actually sell cars and be a viable company again. EV is likely the only thing that can save Alfa.
December 7th, 2022 at 2:53 pm
5,10,15 Yea that makes sense Alfa could grab a model from another brand and do a rebadge if they need a ICE beyond the next couple years and I agree going Ev may be the one chance to turn the brand around.
December 7th, 2022 at 3:16 pm
Alfa Romeo,interesting history. That new Caddy is amazing.
December 7th, 2022 at 3:40 pm
14 I think the value is what benefit the customer gets, not what it costs the manufacturer to provide the benefit. They didn’t cripple the Polestar 2’s normal performance to make this addition a necessity. So if they make a buck on the upgrade and I get the performance improvement I want, it’s a win-win.
December 7th, 2022 at 4:31 pm
16 I guess they could make Alfa’s Cimarron by rebadging a Fiat, but is that really a good idea?
December 7th, 2022 at 4:36 pm
18 The Polestar would be far beyond “fast enough” without the software tweak, but the idea of paying extra to use what is already there is a turnoff to me, kind of like if I had to pay extra to have all 8 cylinders of my Corvette work.
December 7th, 2022 at 5:39 pm
@5, 10, 15 and 16.) It is sad that Alfa still make very attractive vehicles, but the one sticking point is poor perceived quality! What I mean by that is, there are those who have not had one issue with their compact sedan and SUV. Yet, there have been enough to cause a specter to hang over those two models and a number of their failures have been epic! On the sales front, I don’t think they have to offer a lot of models and sell in big numbers to be a successful brand. When you look at Tesla, with only four models, they are still a relatively small automaker. When you factor in their purchase price, along with potential buyers willing to wait in line to take possession of their new Tesla (who, arguably, doesn’t have the greatest record on quality themselves!), I think Alfa would welcome and be okay with such an outlook! That is not to say that Tesla is not selling a lot of vehicles, just that it is still a small company and Alfa would benefit greatly if they sold half as much as Tesla does worldwide. So even if BEV sells didn’t materialize and many are expecting (hoping) that they do, if Alfa got the right vehicle mix, offered the styling that their customers love and was able to convince their customers, the rest of the industry and the buying public that the quality was on par with best of the industry, IMHO, I think they would find the sells they need to stay in business!
Well I understand the arguments that have been made, the thought of paying $1200 a year for more power, be it Mercedes or Polestar, I feel is nonsense. The only way it makes since, is if when you purchased/leased and believed the power out put would be enough, only to later after driving the vehicle a while, to come to the conclusion that what you have is not enough. Even then, to have to Re-up ever year, just seems like a money grab to me! What makes more since to me is, because the software to increase BEV battery/motor efficiency is always improving, I could see charging a fee to get the latest update. Today when you buy/lease a ICE vehicle, your getting the latest and greatest of what they offer in that model to date! But, when they offer a new model, they may carry over the previous generations engine hard and software. Two years later or during the vehicle’s mid cycle fresh, they bring updates to the engine, it’s management systems (with may bring more power and a greater range) and any updates to the infotainment and other electronic. I can see paying a one time cost for such an over the air update/upgrade in my vehicle, every two to four years! Though safety updates and updates should be automatic, those others would give me the choice of whether to get the update or not. Maybe a person maybe okay with their vehicles current performance and wouldn’t need the extra power or efficiency. For example, my wife and daughter only use their vehicles to go to work and college, but they ride with me in the vehicle I take to work, when we run errands, go to movies and travel. So, incremental increases in efficiency for them may be good, but not be as impactful with the ‘relatively’ little driving they do compared to me. Doing the lions share of the family driving, greater power and efficiency would be something I would be looking for and may be willing to pay a one time over the air upgrade fee.
While it may not make much since now, but I think that once VW gets their BEV software straightened out, they may be a force to be reckon with on the EV front. Time will tell though.
December 7th, 2022 at 11:27 pm
21 In addition to reliability, perceived or real, Alfa has only a handful of dealers in the U.S., and the vehicles are pricey. As far as reliability, the Stelvio is no worse than 3 of 4 Tesla models in CR’s reliability surveys.
The Stelvio starts at $46,575 with a 4 cylinder engine and RWD. With 4WD, the V6 and a higher trim level, it can get much pricier. There is a lot to chose from for $60K and above. Also, I would expect the resale value to be dismal. Given sales numbers, things must be similar in Europe.
December 8th, 2022 at 5:49 am
John, I just read in Car and Driver that GM is creating Camaro and Escalade BEV sub brands. Could you ask your guess , if that is true? If so, wouldn’t doing do just create in showroom competition for other Cadillac EVs? Instead of creating a Camaro and Escalade sub brands, why wouldn’t GM just bring back Pontiac, Oldsmobile or Saturn? Or create sub brands from popular models from those mentioned brands like they did with Hummer under GMC? Like a Saturn Sky sub brand? Or a Pontiac Firebird, or and Oldsmobile 225 (Dues and a Quarter) sub brand?
December 8th, 2022 at 7:50 am
The power upgrade could be used by dealers to help sell a vehicle. Not sure if they could get a break on the price but rather than throw money on the hood via a sale or other incentives, they may provide the power upgrade and can weave it into the price where it doesnt come off as $1200. I could see them using it to their advantage.
Personally, though I would have a hard time paying to unlock capabilities the vehicle already has.
I suppose its like cable TV and you pay more to get more channels. But I also remember all the devices that supposedly unlocked all the channels.
December 8th, 2022 at 7:54 am
Maybe GM should bring back the Geo sub-brand, and Toyota should bring back Scion. Do sub-brands ever make much sense, except maybe Smart, which is so completely different from other Mercedes-Benz products?
December 8th, 2022 at 7:56 am
Well, Smart is a brand, not a sub-brand.
December 8th, 2022 at 9:03 am
John, could you also ask what would be the benefit to an Escalade, verses just, during the Lyriq’s midcycle refresh, just making it and all future Cadillac models be styled to more closely resemble the Escalade?
December 8th, 2022 at 9:03 am
John, could you also ask what would be the benefit to an Escalade, verses just, during the Lyriq’s midcycle refresh, just making it and all future Cadillac models be styled to more closely resemble the Escalade?
December 8th, 2022 at 9:54 am
Yesterday, I went by the local Cadillac dealer to see when they’d have any Lyrics to look at. They said they were supposed to have one for a couple hours on the 19th, that is going around to different dealers for people to see, probably mostly dealer staff.
While there, I took a look at an Escalade in the showroom. The interior looked nice, but where did the myth come from about SUVs being easy to get in and out of? You almost need a step ladder to get in that thing, and I think it was just a standard long, Suburbany Escalade, with no special lift or anything. A regular sedan is much easier to get in and out of.