AD #3497 – New HVAC Adds 33% EV Range in Cold; BYD Cracks Fortress Japan; Nissan’s Way-Out Max-Out Concept

February 2nd, 2023 at 11:45am

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Listen to “AD #3497 – New HVAC Adds 33% EV Range in Cold; BYD Cracks Fortress Japan; Nissan's Way-Out Max-Out Concept” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 8:30

0:00 Honda All-In On Fuel Cells
1:09 ZF, Wolfspeed Make Big Investment in EV Chips
2:01 BYD Cracks Fortress Japan
3:26 Armored Trucks Go Electric
4:22 Nissan’s Way-Out Max-Out Concept
5:00 Polestar Offers Lidar
6:04 New HVAC System Adds 33% EV Range in the Cold

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28 Comments to “AD #3497 – New HVAC Adds 33% EV Range in Cold; BYD Cracks Fortress Japan; Nissan’s Way-Out Max-Out Concept”

  1. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Is Honda going to build gas stations for their hydrogen vehicles?

  2. Lambo2015 Says:

    I agree the Leaf was boring, but that concept looks like a pine wood derby car I made when I was like 10. Without the lighting to enhance the looks it’s a pretty awful shape with not much style IMO.

    So is Gentherm saying that EV range is reduced drastically due to the battery trying to maintain a comfortable cabin temp? I always thought that the reduced range was just due to the batteries being cold and less efficient.
    So if thats the case and you didnt use the HVAC system in the car an EV would have the same range in hot and cold weather? Time for some heated/cooled jump suits to drive in.. lol

  3. Norm T Says:

    GM is already making Hydrotec stand alone generators for their remote media EV drives of Hummer EV and Lyriq. So it is fitting for Honda to use it’s technology.

  4. Kit Gerhart Says:

    2 Cabin heat uses a lot of power in an EV, according to this article, 4-8 kW if resistance heating is used, according to this article.

    Yeah, jump suits, or any type of warm clothing in the winter will save range. The batteries lose capacity when it’s cold, at least until they warm up from having drain on them, but heating the cabin to normal temp probably reduces range more. Also, drag is higher in dense, cold air, and the oil in the gear reduction gets thicker when it’s cold, adding to power loss.

  5. Dave Says:

    Using heated seats and heated steering wheel uses less electricity however just driving in the cold, uses more electricity but just keep an eye on the juice gauge and keep enough electricity in battery just as an ICE car uses more fuel and with a BEV you don’t have ice in the lines leaving you dead on the road [been there done that] also you can use your phone and pre-warm However if you pre warm to a hot car 80F then you’ll use a lot of juice[done that too, won't do it again]

  6. DanaPointJohn Says:

    1. Possibly, no…probably.

  7. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 I had a gas line freeze once in my 1974 Plymouth Duster. Luckily, I was near a gas station with a garage, and pushing it in where it was warm got it going after a few minutes. I doubt if gas line freezing happens any more, with E-10, which will mix with a lot more water than straight gasoline.

  8. Ziggy Says:

    “Passengers use an app to enter their height, weight, sex and age and set the temperature they want, and the algorithm calculates how to heat or cool their body.” Anybody know what sex has to do with heating or cooling a body?

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Florida Power and Light has what looks like a good deal for charging EVs, for those in a house in the suburbs with an attached garage.

  10. GM Veteran Says:

    1 – I don’t think so. But they might build hydrogen stations. (couldn’t resist!)

  11. GM Veteran Says:

    Sean, I was surprised that your Honda fuel cell story did not mention GM, their partner in fuel cell development. GM has been working on fuel cell development for roughly 35 years. They have made a lot of progress. Honda has also been working on them for quite some time and I believe that they thought that combining their efforts, budgets and experience could yield a cost-competitive fuel cell product line. GM also has plans in the works to market the fuel cells to non-automotive customers, including the U.S. military.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    10 Unlike gasoline/petrol, hydrogen is a gas at room temperature.

  13. Albemarle Says:

    Hydrogen costs 3 times the price of electricity, is expensive to ship and store. Hydrogen cars also have substantial lithium batteries so are more expensive. So hydrogen as a fuel has limited use; only for applications that can afford the price and inconvenience. Certainly not cars, suvs or pickup trucks.

  14. Albemarle Says:

    We tested how much the heating system affected range on our 2017 Bolt when we first got it. Bundling up and driving in -10C or 11F weather with absolutely no heat on, we saw a 30% drop in range over a 60 km trip we take frequently. This is the loss in range because of a cold battery. I am sure newer EVs heat their battery more effectively, so HVAC plays a much bigger role in winter range drop off. There’s also the switching from rock hard EV summer tires to Bridgestone Blizzaks in winter. Don’t care about the range loss if I am in the ditch.

  15. Albemarle Says:

    8. Big guys run hot? Women are always cold? Of maybe they are just collecting information they can sell to Facebook and Google.

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14 Do you start you winter trip with the car at outside ambient temperature? As far as range loss, the main thing is having enough range to complete your trip without concern.

  17. merv Says:

    your car makes you so comfy,you nod off,hence the need for ai

  18. Lambo2015 Says:

    8 If men and women were the same temp they never would have invented the dual climate control. Yeah women are almost always colder in the same temp car and then as soon as they are hot its time to roll the windows down. My temp pretty much always stays at 72. My wife will go from HIGH to OFF to HIGH in a 10 minute drive.

  19. GM Veteran Says:

    12 – OK, you got me there!

  20. Albemarle Says:

    14. The Bolt is a great winter car. Even starting cold you have heated seats, heated wheel and hot air blowing by the time you’ve backed out of the unheated garage and headed down the driveway.

    We set the car temp at 21C and live with the range consequences. As the second car, we do all our charging at home or cottage and range is still more than enough to only require charging a couple of times a week.

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    20 I hadn’t thought about it, but yeah, you would get hot air almost immediately with the resistance heating. It would cost range, but with your home charging and short trips, it doesn’t matter much. Operating cost is still very low.

  22. wmb Says:

    BYD breaking into the Japanese market with an BEV?! I’m sure the Big Japanese Three will be kicking themselves for not getting into EVs sooner, if the BYD vehicles take off in their home market!

    Armored vehicles could be a good fit for EVs. Great torque, fairly short range trips, but not needing the battery packs and power of a vehicle like the Tesla semi!

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 The jury is still very much out as far as whether Toyota et. al. are doing the right thing. They are, for me, but probably 70% of Americans have access to home charging, which would change things a lot.

    More people probably live in high density housing most places than in the US, but they might be doing a better job of provided EV charging for those people.

  24. wmb Says:

    #2.) While shapely and with interesting light display, the Nissan Way-Out Max-Out looks like a smaller, less appealing, convertible Dodge Charger concept, to my eye. Thought the Charger concept is red hot fire, the Way-Out Max-Out is kind-of ho-hum! A BEV version of the Z car or the GTR (Godzilla) would have been more exciting, IMHO.

  25. Lambo2015 Says:

    23 I looked into this a year or so ago but it’s not anywhere near viable for 70% Americans. Only about 65% Americans own a home, but 10.6% are vacant and 2.7% are second homes so only about 51.7% are living in their homes 100% of the time, and only about 80% of those have a carport or garages. So now your down to 41%. Not that you couldn’t throw an extension cord from the house but you’re likely using 120V at that point.
    Then throw in that 15% are over 80 years old and 1/2 of those still only have a 60amp service so take out another 7% and you’re at 34%.

    The last caveat to this is the US median income is 70K a year. Meaning 50% are below that amount. Who is going to spend 55K on an EV when they make less than 70K a year? With this, all-in mind I would say the actual market for a 60K EV is maybe 30% at best. Getting the price down to mid 30s can increase that and offering more places to charge will too but I really think they should be looking for 40-50% EV saturation as being successful.

  26. Lambo2015 Says:

    25 Not that you have to have a garage to own a EV but my point was when they speak about EVs they make it sound simple when its not that simple. I also remember when Larry was here and would say, people said the same thing 120 years ago about cars and wanting to keep their horse and buggy. It’s not about wanting to keep “old technology”. It’s just not as convenient as they make it sound.

    Also, the difference 120 years ago when the car was coming out. We didn’t have the government telling everyone they had to stop using horses and buy a car in 12 years. The market drove interest in the automobile not regulations or manufacturers refusing to keep making buggy’s. It happened how it should and if an EV is a better product people will gladly buy them.

  27. Lambo2015 Says:

    Wyoming just told the Gov no to 27 Million for EV charging stations because once installed they dont want to be responsible for maintaining them.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    25 I was just guessing about the 70%. As far as home ownership, that is irrelevant. People rent houses with capability for charging, and I own a home without that capability. Anyway, time will tell what happens with EV adoption over the next several years. People I know with EVs like them. One person with a Model S uses it for everything. Others mostly have Bolts, and use them for shorter trips with home charging. I’d probably be in the latter group, for one of my cars, if I had home charging.