AD #3528 – More Details on VW’s $25,000 EV; Latest $4,200 EV In China; BYD Denza EV Has 2 Charging Ports
March 17th, 2023 at 11:55am
Listen to “AD #3528 – More Details on VW’s $25,000 EV; Latest $4,200 EV In China; BYD Denza EV Has 2 Charging Ports” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 10:43
0:08 Autonomy Moves Forward in China
1:20 VW Investing in Mines
1:55 VW Slashing Prices in China
2:48 Nissan Skilled Trades Reject Union
4:00 Latest $4,200 EV In China
5:10 More Details on VW’s $25,000 EV
6:29 Alpine A110 Goes Retro
8:13 BYD Denza EV Has 2 Charging Ports
9:04 Tesla Owners Sue Over Service Parts
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
AUTONOMY MOVES FORWARD IN CHINA
Autonomous cars are controversial but they keep making progress. Over in China, self-driving startup Pony.ai and tech giant Baidu just received permits from the city of Beijing to operate fully autonomous, ride hailing services without a safety driver on board. Each company can deploy up to 10 vehicles, which can be summoned by users with an app. While that is a big step forward for AVs, for now they’re limited to operating in a technology park. Meanwhile in the U.S., progress is slow. GM CEO Mary Barra met with Democratic senators Gary Peters and Maria Cantwell to push Congress to speed up the deployment of self-driving vehicles. Last year, GM petitioned NHTSA to allow it to operate up to 2,500 of its Cruise Origin shuttles. But legislation in Congress has been bottled up for the past six years. One reason is a genuine concern over safety. Another reason is that plaintiff attorneys who handle lawsuits over car crashes are opposed to autonomous technology.
VW INVESTING IN MINES
Tesla and GM recently announced plans to invest directly in mines to make sure they can get the raw materials they need to make batteries. Now, Reuters reports that Volkswagen is going to do the same thing. And we wouldn’t be surprised to see other automakers do it too. They learned the hard way during the chip crisis that they better firm up their supply chains by dealing directly with the sources of raw materials and critical components, rather than rely on their suppliers to do it. Automakers don’t want to get caught short handed again.
VW SLASHING PRICES IN CHINA
That price war in China shows no signs of letting up. Now Volkswagen is slashing prices. VW and its Chinese partner SAIC are offering subsidies between $2,100 and $7,200 for their entire lineup until the end of April. And they really need to move the metal. China has stricter emission rules that go into effect on July 1st and automakers are trying to clear out all their inventory of vehicles that don’t meet those standards. More than 40 brands have slashed prices in anticipation of the new rules. VW used to dominate the market in China but sales are down by over a million vehicles since 2019. And BYD outsold VW twice in the past four months.
NISSAN SKILLED TRADES REJECT UNION
Yesterday we reported that a small group of tool and die workers at Nissan’s Smyrna, Tennessee plant were voting on joining the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers union. Well, they didn’t join. The skilled trades people overwhelmingly rejected the union by a 62-9 vote. The results aren’t too surprising, the UAW has tried to organize all employees at that plant twice and failed. And hasn’t organized any plants belonging to foreign automakers in over 40 years.
LATEST $4,200 EV IN CHINA
We love the cute, little vans that you see in Japan and China and, like everything else, they’re going electric. Chinese EV startup Matrix Motors is launching an updated version of its all-electric microvan, the 01. But instead of giving it more features, it’s getting less. The option for a larger 20.7 kWh battery has been removed, so only a 10.3 kWh pack is available. And it’s going from a nickel, manganese, cobalt or NMC to an LFP or lithium, iron, phosphate chemistry. With a carryover 15 kW or 20 horsepower electric motor, the setup is capable of providing 120 km or 74 miles of range on the Chinese test cycle. The changes allowed Matrix to lower the price of the electric van. When the 01 launched in 2021 it was priced around $6,800, but the new version starts at $4,200. Interestingly, Matrix Motors is backed by Alibaba, which is like the Amazon of China.
MORE DETAILS ON VW’S $25,000 EV
Speaking of affordable EVs, let’s dive into some more details on Volkswagen’s sub 25,000-euro concept, the ID. 2all. It rides on an updated version of the MEB platform, which, for the first time, is front-wheel-drive-based. It’s powered by a 166 kW or 220 horsepower electric motor that provides performance of 0-100 km/h in less than 7 seconds and a top speed of 160 km/h or 99 MPH. While VW didn’t reveal too many details on the battery, it says it will provide 450 kilometers or about 280 miles of range and the ability to charge from 10-80% in 20 minutes. The ID. 2all seems like a step in the right direction for Volkswagen and its EVs, but as it was pointed out on yesterday’s Autoline After Hours, automakers can set the price of a vehicle wherever they want, but the real test will be if they can make a profit on it. And if you haven’t done so already, I would highly recommend you check out that show. There’s a lot of great insight from our guests Sandy Munro and Cory Steuben of Munro Live.
ALPINE A110 GOES RETRO
Renault’s performance brand, Alpine, has its plans to move into the electric era, but today it’s still celebrating the internal combustion engine. It’s coming out with a special edition of the A110 that honors the rallying past of classic versions of the car. The A110 San Remo 73 comes standard with a host of upgraded equipment and then builds on that with custom features. That includes a unique blue paint job with black A-pillars and a carbon fiber roof impregnated with a red weave. Black and white graphics, 18-inch white wheels and Brembo brakes round out the highlights of the exterior styling. The interior features racing seats, microfiber-wrapped surfaces, sport pedals and door panel graphics to match the outside. Only 200 examples will be built and prices start at 89,000 euros. For comparison, a base A110, which won’t come standard with the same upgraded equipment, starts at about 60,000 euros.
BYD DENZA EV HAS 2 CHARGING PORTS
Here’s an interesting solution to cut charging time that BYD came up with. It makes an electric van in China called the Denza that has two charging ports, one on each side of the vehicle. Since it has a large 103 kWh battery, and since most fast chargers in China are rated around 120 kilowatts, it will take over an hour to charge if the battery is almost empty. So the Denza has an AC and DC port on the right side, and a DC port on the left side. The idea is to back up between two DC chargers and plug in both sides in at the same time. The ports are connected in parallel and allow maximum charging. BYD already does this for buses and trucks, but this is the first time it’s done it with a passenger vehicle.
TESLA OWNERS SUE OVER SERVICE PARTS
A couple of Tesla owners in California are suing the company because they claim it has a monopoly over service and service parts for its cars. As you all know, Tesla operates most of its own service centers, and because it’s so vertically integrated it pretty much makes most of its own parts. But these owners say Tesla is violating antitrust laws because they can only get their cars serviced at Tesla-approved facilities and that those facilities only use Tesla parts. They claim they’re paying exorbitant prices and have long waits to get their cars serviced. One problem is that Tesla makes it really hard for independent techs to get scan tools to work on its cars. And we would love to hear from any Tesla owners in the audience. What’s been your service experience?
But that brings us to the end of today’s show. Thanks for tuning in, have a Happy St. Patrick’s Day and I hope you have a great weekend.
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Comments (29)
March 17th, 2023 at 12:15 pm
I have a scan tool that works with Tesla and most of our suppliers list and advertise parts for Tesla as well
March 17th, 2023 at 12:22 pm
I had one really terrible Tesla service experience and two very good ones. It seems to depend on what service writer you get. In general it seems like most Tesla service employees try to do a good job.
When I first got my car in 2019, wait times were a month or more. More recently I was able to get an appointment within 3 days which is much better than the month we had to wait for my wife’s Volvo to get service.
I do have to say mobile service is the bees knees. It really couldn’t have been a better experience.
March 17th, 2023 at 12:33 pm
With automakers buying into mines, it looks like Henry Ford had the right idea about controlling the entire supply chain. I wonder what happens when the automakers realize they are getting into a field outside their core competency of auto manufacturing? It’s one thing to control your sources, but a totally different thing if you are not the low-cost producer.
March 17th, 2023 at 12:33 pm
Mary Barra showed up with the wrong pocketbook and talked to the wrong people.
Denza with two charging ports is a great idea. That could cut down the charging time in the USA if it was added to all EV vehicles.
March 17th, 2023 at 12:54 pm
The Porsche Taycan has two charging ports. AC charging is possible on both sides, while DC charging is only possible on the right side.
March 17th, 2023 at 1:12 pm
AAH with Sandy & Cory was EXCELLENT!
March 17th, 2023 at 1:17 pm
Does not California have a “Right to Repair” law on the books? This would be a great topic for AAH with guest You-Tuber Rich Rebuild.
March 17th, 2023 at 1:24 pm
The twin charging ports on the Denza are a good idea, and will make for a better charging experience for the owner. Except for when they plug in and go shopping, only to return and find all of the charging slots are filled and there are other owners waiting to charge and a little peeved that this owner is hogging two chargers.
March 17th, 2023 at 1:28 pm
6 AAH was good, and set a record for length. They usually sign off almost precisely after an hour, but yesterday’s went about 1:50.
It was even a learning experience for Sandy Murno. He didn’t know that cars had 6 volt electrical systems until the 1950s.
March 17th, 2023 at 2:13 pm
i believe a big reason for workers rejecting unions is they see little upside to donating a portion of their wages to the union to get similar pay packages without one. The days of the big union wage for building cars seems to be over. car companies see that they can’t sustain the generous pension packages of the past. At one point I read that the big 3 paid out as much to retired workers as they did to those still on the job. The Big 3 no longer have a 80 % share of the American market and it would not be able to keep it a float. So giving someone else the power to tell you to sit on your hands for a few dollars more while they still collect a paycheck are pretty much over. Unions served a purpose back in the day , but for many of today’s workers they don’t offer a great deal. Plus the non -stop corruption cases turns people off as well.
March 17th, 2023 at 2:23 pm
A quick google check UAW starting wage average is $23.13 and Non Union is between $23-25 . So where is the incentive to unionize ?
March 17th, 2023 at 2:30 pm
10,11 Don’t UAW people still get pensions, and decent health benefits? It’s certainly not like it once was, but I think better than the transplants. If I’m wrong, let me know.
A lot of today’s workers are going to be in deep financial trouble when they retire. Fewer people will have pensions that now, and there are the ongoing attempts to do away with Social Security. The politicians promise only to keep it for the “baby boomers,” but those people, including myself, have pension income, while few of today’s young people will. How many of them will save enough money for retirement?
March 17th, 2023 at 2:57 pm
It only makes sense to guarantee a supply of critical parts, especially if there is a long lead time or if they use rare materials. That is not new, it is just something that the OEMs forgot.
March 17th, 2023 at 3:00 pm
If Tesla overcharged for parts significantly, I am sure some enterprising person would start a service business that featured Chinese made Tesla parts at a lower price. Any idea on the price difference for Tesla repair parts in US vs China vs Europe?
March 17th, 2023 at 3:05 pm
Tesla making negative news again. The so call genius thinks he’s above the law. I predict customers will wakeup one day and say “no more, we’ve had enough of this guy”.
I hope I’m not hurting the feelings of some here, because I’m threading on Tesla fans. I know some think Elon can do no wrong.
March 17th, 2023 at 3:06 pm
I always wanted to ask about kit cars. Assuming that they are still legal in the US, why wouldn’t Chinese EV companies sell ‘kits’ as an easy way to enter the US market. I think a lot of people might be interested in a kit based on something old and cheap, like a VW Beetle or previous generation Ford Ranger, that converted it to an EV. If they made a stage 2 kit that converted the body into a delivery van (Ford) or sports car (VW), even better.
March 17th, 2023 at 3:07 pm
… maybe VW should do the VW beetle EV conversion kit.
March 17th, 2023 at 3:21 pm
17 Maybe there are still some new Beetle body parts in Mexico to build them from. Maybe you’d need an old VIN for it to be legal in the US, though.
16 Laws on kit cars seem to vary by state. A few years ago, a guy I know in Indiana built a Cobra kit car. I think the entire chassis, or most of it, was part of the kit. Maybe about anything is legal, if the volume is low enough.
March 17th, 2023 at 3:28 pm
Many oems used the kit car idea to assemble vehicles in small markets. I believe Toyota used to assemble cars in New Zealand for example. I know Volvo did a bad job of assembling cars in Nova Scotia (we had one)
March 17th, 2023 at 3:44 pm
Kit, Legacy workers may still , and the new hires may get something the total comp package listed online is between $70 and $75 @ hour all in. which is about the same as I get as non union assembly personnel.
March 17th, 2023 at 4:59 pm
Kit, regarding Wednesday’s late discussion about IIHS crash testing relevance in a world of AEB-equipped vehicles… Consumer Reports provided this summary of the breadth of AEB availability:
“AEB is proven to reduce both the frequency and severity of crashes and to save lives. Audi, BMW, Ford/Lincoln, Honda/Acura, Hyundai/Genesis, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi, Nissan/Infiniti, Stellantis, Subaru, Tesla, Toyota/Lexus, Volkswagen, and Volvo had already fulfilled their commitment to include AEB across most of their model lineups, according to IIHS, although Honda/Acura’s percentage of AEB-equipped vehicles dipped briefly this year amid supply chain-related manufacturing shortages.”
Among volume brands, just GM and Kia are lagging.
March 17th, 2023 at 6:09 pm
21 Interesting. VW has AEB in their mass market stuff, and “premium” Audi, but not in Porsche, at least Boxster/Cayman, which was part of VW Group until a few months ago. Also, I’m surprised that Kia doesn’t do the same as Hyundai.
March 17th, 2023 at 9:46 pm
6 The people on AAH predicted that Tesla would overtake GM in units sold in 2028-2030. What about Ford. They are dropping Edge and the Lincoln snail version next year. Big pickup trucks of all brands are piling up unsold. Even though Tesla has only two functional virtues, good powertrain efficiency and the best charging system for the few who use EVs for road trips, I don’t doubt the predictions that the legacy companies will be in deep trouble. Tesla may have one other huge virtue, much lower manufacturing cost than others.
March 18th, 2023 at 8:22 pm
#10 & 11.) Why do you think that the non union OEMs pay nearly the same amount as the union OEMs? Because if they didn’t , those workers would want the same pay as the union shops and see the valued of unionizing! So even though the those shops aren’t unionized, competition with union shops, motivates leaders of those companies to keep up with those that are! If unions went away, completely, the leaders of these same companies will go back to paying employees less, rolling back MIOSHA rules, health benefits, all the while crying that they can’t make money, while those at the top line, their pockets in culvers with even more money!!! even though union, workers may be receiving bonuses around this time of the year, some of which has set records, all of that money that they’ve been awarded for the work that they’ve done, all of that together is just a drop in the bucket, of the bonuses that middle managers, executives and leaders of the company get every year! Look at the compensation and bonuses, that the leader of Stellantis got and rightly so, for the great job he did running the company. Would it be wrong for the union workers to get bonuses too? They were the ones who built the product, the customers buy that brought in the profits for the company he leads! The the union works didn’t sit on their hands, as was suggested, while the recalls were not their fault either, since they go back to poor engineering. Again, the union workers build the vehicles, they don’t design them. I kills me when individuals put the woes of the auto industry is due to the unionized workforce. The truth of the matter, for every story someone has of a union who doesn’t want to work, was fired and the union got them their job back and poor attendance case, there are hundreds others who go to work everyday, give a good honest days work and there is no issues. Get this, while people talk about union workers, you would be fooling yourself if you don’t believe that theire are members of a companies salaried, middle manager and executive work force who are being paid top dollar, but are doing nothing, has poor attendance, are involved in something that others know about that such have them fired, but they are still working or it’s being covered up, or there is some scandal, or corruption that the company is keeping quiet! There are bad apples in EVERY organization, so let’s not vilify and demonize union shops, just because they are unions. Trust me, those employers that are not unionized, that offer benefits similar to those that are, do not do that out of the kindness of their heart!
March 18th, 2023 at 9:09 pm
24 Yeah, unions help the non-union transplant workers, just as they helped me, as a non-union salary employee with GM, and later Delphi.
March 20th, 2023 at 7:25 am
24 Thats so true. I am a salaried employee at a non-union facility, and I know that I would not have many of the benefits I have, if not for the union. A perfect example is the time off between Christmas and New Years. Many other people I know not in the Auto industry are off the EVE’s and the holidays (4 days) but I’m typically off about 10-12 days. Having worked in both union and non-union plants its the threat of the union that keeps employers interested in paying similar wages and benefits. I honestly dont know if any have pensions anymore, that has seemed to been replaced by 401K contributions. That may be the biggest difference in having a union is the percentage of contribution paid. I union shop may be 50-100% match while a non union shop may only match 10%. But its things like that can make a union still look attractive.
March 20th, 2023 at 7:39 am
24 I also have to agree with you that it’s unfair to blame the Union floor workers for poor quality especially in a recall situation. Any design flaw that has created a failure is absolutely engineering’s fault and even manufacturing failures should be captured by a good quality system which also falls back on engineering. The workers should not be able to build a bad product.
A well engineered assembly line will produce the desired quantity of parts per hour without rejects. A robust quality system prevents bad parts from going out the door. The floor workers are there to run equipment and assemble parts. Almost every reject or warranty return can be traced back to a failure on engineering’s part. Short of a line worker purposely doing something like stuffing a beer bottle in a body panel. (which has been done) their job should be fool proof.
March 20th, 2023 at 8:04 am
17) There is this company doing VW electric conversions. They are done really well but a bit pricey.
https://www.zelectricmotors.com/vw-and-porsche
March 20th, 2023 at 10:23 am
28 Yep, a bit pricey, $78K plus the value of the car. I’m sure they do good work, though.