Episode 353 – Shareholders Sue Toyota, GM Sues Over Replicas, Auction Prices Signal Recovery?

March 22nd, 2010 at 12:29pm

Runtime 9:07

Company shareholders are going to sue Toyota because the price of its stock has gone down. General Motors is suing a company that’s building replicas of the 1963 Corvette Grand Sport. Could auctions at Amelia Island be a signal the recession is ending? All that and more, plus a look at Infiniti’s latest marketing push.

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Transcript and Story Links after the jump . . .

Here are today’s top headlines. Now Toyota faces shareholder lawsuits. GM sues a company building replica Corvettes. And could auctions at Amelia Island be a signal the recession is ending?

Up next, we’ll be back with the news behind the headlines.

This is Autoline Daily for Monday, March 22, 2010. And now, the news.

And the lawsuits keep piling up against Toyota. Now company shareholders are going to sue the company because the price of its stock has gone down. The Associated Press reports that three different class-action lawsuits are being filed. They accuse Toyota of knowing for a decade that its electronic throttle control has a defect that will cause a car to accelerate wildly out of control, but covered it up. So are these angry Japanese investors who are suing Toyota? Of course not, they’re Americans. Don’t look for these lawsuits to succeed. Stockholders also sued Ford for the same sort of thing with the rollover Explorers. But Ford won that lawsuit.

Chrysler is now offering television in vehicles (subscription required), as an aftermarket package. Chrysler had been offering three different TV channels through Sirius radio. But this new system offers live, mobile TV in 100 different markets in the United States. It is now offering 10 different stations, according to Ward’s, but is capable of showing 200 channels. It’s a dealer option that costs $629 plus installation. It is available in most truck products, but not any passenger cars. The system is from FLO TV of San Diego, California, a subsidiary of Qualcomm.

General Motors is suing Mongoose Motorsports of Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, over trademark infringement the Detroit News reports. The company is producing replicas of the 1963 Corvette Grand Sport. It’s one of the rarest models in existence, only five were built, and it sells for millions at auctions. The replicas are being sold for $90,000. GM wants the company to stop making and selling the models, destroy all labels, signs and ads bearing Corvette trademarks, and also wants unspecified financial damages.

Just to prove that we cover everything going on in the automotive world, Tata announced a deal to build a heavy truck plant in Myanmar, the country which used to be known as Burma and is one of the most closed societies in the world. According to the AFP, the plant will open next year and have a capacity of 1,000 units. No financial numbers were disclosed but it’s being funded by credit from the Indian government.

Chrysler and German supplier ZF are working together to produce truck and SUV axles, but Ward’s reports that the relationship between the two companies is not all smiles and handshakes (subscription required). Part of the problem is that Chrysler’s bankruptcy pushed production back. The first axle was supposed to be delivered in April, but that milestone is not expected to happen until later in the summer. Production is also expected to be some 30 percent lower than initially estimated because of the weak economy. And the UAW isn’t happy, either. Some of the 350 employees that were supposed to transfer from Chrysler’s axle plant in Detroit to the new facility aren’t needed.

Could the auction-price of exotic automobiles be a bellwether for the U.S. economy? Autoblog reports that three classic Ferraris sold for more than $1 million at the Amelia Island Auction in Florida. The 40 year-old cars include a Daytona Spyder once owned by Edsel Ford II. It went for nearly $1.1 million. Next up, a copper-colored 275 GTB/4 brought in almost $1.3 million – a little less than its estimate. Lastly, a meticulously restored, concourse-winning 275 greatly exceeded its estimated value with a $1,650,000 winning bid. Overall, the auction accounted for more than $19 million in sales.

Coming up next, a look at Infiniti’s latest marketing push.

There was a time not too long ago when marketing a car seemed pretty simple. With snappy ads saturating the media, you could sell nearly anything on wheels. Of course, it was never quite that easy, but compared to the complexity of today it seemed like Shangri-La. Just ask the folks at Infiniti.

This 20 year-old company has produced some terrific products, but its middle-of-the-pack sales numbers show us a brand STILL trying to break into the luxury big leagues. One way to do that is to ramp up marketing — which — Infiniti has done recently with a “Back To The Future” type game plan.

And that’s an important key in this Internet age.  Companies look for layers of marketing that touch the right audience, something Infiniti is already doing with the Sundance Channel and its hybrid show Spectacle with Elvis Costello.

But Infiniti isn’t just looking to score with well-heeled music lovers.  The company’s turned to college basketball with ESPN blogs and “inspiration-themed” interviews with top tier coaches.

And right now as March Madness covers the county, Infiniti has turned to CBS Sports to promote its new flagship sedan.  By sponsoring the network’s Bracket Challenge and OnDemand games at the website, the company is reaching an important male-dominated crowd which is the exact target for the M.

Of course, attracting customers and moving metal is the bottom line.  And despite all the research and focus groups, sometimes selling just comes down to an elaborate game of chance … one that Infiniti Marketing chooses to spread, layer and integrate.

And that’s it for today’s top news in the global automotive industry. Thanks for watching, we’ll see you tomorrow.

Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog, The Auto Channel, Car Chat, WardsAuto.com and WWJ Newsradio 950

45 Comments to “Episode 353 – Shareholders Sue Toyota, GM Sues Over Replicas, Auction Prices Signal Recovery?”

  1. dave Says:

    On The Corvettes, first off who cares they will only sell a small number of them. Second if GM was to get a part of the price they would back out. GM had the same problem with the “crate” 1st gen camaros and tri-5 bodys, i think that get a fee when one is sold. Also Shelby did not like the whole Cobra kit car thing, and that did not go anywhere..

  2. Tony Gray Says:

    I wonder if there are any Myanmar Shave signs along the road…..

    Oh, nice piece on Infiniti marketing. Just the kind of quick, but in depth stuff I gain from Autoline Daily.

  3. HtG Says:

    In news from New York, the Harrison Police department will make a statement this afternoon about the Prius incident from a couple of weeks ago. Here is the NY Post link…

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/police_to_announce_findings_in_westchester_VZTpcsiWYmDjTMjJUJkSQM

    doin’ your job here John.

  4. Brentton Says:

    I think that Infiniti has a good plan in their advertising. They have a good point when they say they are reaching the male dominated sports fanatics and using March madness to do that, however, I wish they were a little clearer on their target message to that target audience. Once they find a niche, they can have advertising that works for itself through that niche audience.

  5. Chuck Grenci Says:

    While styling is certainly subjective, Infinity needs some ground breaking changes is their design. I see no excitement in their vehicles and too much bland egg shape to their lines.

    I’m with GM in trying to protect the Corvette heritage and keeping knockoffs from cheapening the Mark. (Is this getting to the point of last weeks comments of auto company’s patenting their designs.)

  6. Dan busch Says:

    For one, I am gald that General Motors is suing Mongoose Motorsports over trademark infringement on the 1963 Corvette Grand Sport. I have been saving money for years to buy one of those “rarest models”, and I don’t need any of those stinking replicas diluting my investment when I make it.

  7. dcars Says:

    Infiniti cars look a lot like Nissans, badge engineering at it’s worst. I just saw a show that interviewed the guy that was re-making these Corvettes. I couldn’t believe that GM was letting him get away with this plagiarism, but they did look nice.

  8. pedro fernandez Says:

    In my opinion, Infinity has failed miserably to capture the luxury market, their flagship Q is never even mentioned when comparing other companies’ flagships, ex. S class 7 series and Lexus LS. You don’t see any older Q’s still driving around when you see hundreds of LS and the Germans also. The old J model sold well, but I’ll be damned to find any of them still driving around. AS far as using the Amelia event as a barometer for the economy, I don’t pay attention to that, Barrett Jackson also does killing business despite the economy, them rich folks still got lots of cash to throw around to satisfy their egos, I did see increased activity at a Hyundai, Chevy, and Mazda dealer I went to this weekend

  9. Nick Stevens Says:

    “pedro fernandez Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    In my opinion, Infinity has failed miserably to capture the luxury market, their flagship Q is never even mentioned when comparing other companies’ flagships, ex. S class 7 series and Lexus LS”

    Yes. The original Q 45 was excellent, and very competitive and powerful for those times 20 years ago (!), then they lost their way like Acura, but for different reasons.

    Infi is not trying to look like just a luxury car, lexus has this covered, so Infi is trying to look like a high-performance luxury, sort of like a BMW challenger (they wish).

  10. Nick Stevens Says:

    DAVE: Purpose made police cruiser to get a GREAT BMW 3.0 DIESEL with 425 lbft torque AND 40% higher MPG than the Ford v8s.

    “Back in 2007 when Carbon Motors announced it would build the first purpose-designed police vehicle, the spec sheet called for a twin-turbocharged inline-six cylinder diesel engine.

    As any existing automaker will tell you, certifying a diesel engine to meet current U.S. emissions regulations is no trivial matter, so Carbon Motors would likely have to find a supplier with an engine already certified.

    But the number of companies currently selling passenger car diesels in the U.S. can be counted on one hand with some fingers to spare.

    At a press conference in Washington D.C. on Monday morning, BMW and Carbon Motors announced that the German automaker would supply its highly regarded 3.0-liter inline-six cylinder diesel for these new police vehicles. Carbon has placed an order for 240,000 units of the same diesel engine used in the BMW X5 35d and 335d. In current U.S. emissions legal form, the diesel produces 265 horsepower and 425 pound-feet of torque.

    Powered by the BMW diesel, the Carbon E7 is expected to achieve up to a 40-percent reduction in fuel consumption and CO2 emissions compared to current police vehicles.”

    Great Engine, but 240,000 orders??? They seem very oprimistic, for a niche vehicle maker!

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Nick Stevens Says:

    “Great Engine, but 240,000 orders??? They seem very oprimistic, for a niche vehicle maker!”

    Any word on how much they would cost? I’d think they would be very pricey.

  12. pedro fernandez Says:

    In this economy it will be very difficult to get the taxpayers to go along with these expensive police cars that people see getting banged up all the time. Besides when their police time is over, who the heck is gonna buy these things at auction? they don’t make good taxicabs.

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    When they go to auction, these cars might be the cheapest way to get a BMW diesel, but I suspect the cars would be very “underdeveloped” as far as NVH. Also, if a police department would pay probably double or triple the price of a regular car, they will probably keep them a long time and wear them out before selling them off.

  14. Salvador G. Says:

    Why GM doesn’t just buy Mongoose Motorports?? -so they are the ones making money off modern replicas of old rare corvettes.

    JohnMc, Ask…
    :Could the auction-price of exotic automobiles be a bellwether for the U.S. economy?
    Answer: Well, technically the recession endend a while ago (for those with a lot of money) is the rest of us(clowns) who put the money to bail Wallstreet out -who are still feeling it.

    You know, the problem with Infiniti is that they’re not particulary stand out in the market, they’re not bad cars – but they feel blend, not quite an exciting brand; at least thats how I feel about it.
    -

  15. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    The G is Infiniti’s most popular product, and there is a reason for that. The G itself is the essence of the Infiniti Brand, and Infiniti needs to transport that rubric to all cars.

    Im glad Hyundai probably wont make the same mistake Nissan did in building the Luxury Brand.

  16. Nick Stevens Says:

    “# Kit Gerhart Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Nick Stevens Says:

    “Great Engine, but 240,000 orders??? They seem very oprimistic, for a niche vehicle maker!”

    Any word on how much they would cost? I’d think they would be very pricey.”

    An old friend of mine who was finishing his PhD when I was starting mine, now a VP of a major consulting firm in the beltway, bought a 735i from a dealer with warranty and low miles, and had to replace both the engine and the transmission, $8k and $6k respectively. because of the warranty he paid only half. The diesel should cost at least that much, but the above is retail, who knows what the wholesale will be? I’m sure it will also depend on the units actually sold to the Police car maker.

  17. Nick Stevens Says:

    PS after he replaced the engine and tranny, he drove it for more than 100k trouble-free miles. He is like me, he thinks buying cars new is $ down the drain, buys used, and he drives his cars into the ground and gets all the value from them.

  18. CAPT GUY FIROR Says:

    IF TATA CAN GET ANYTHING GOING IN BURMA, MORE POWER TO THEM. CURRENTLY LAST IN WORLD ECONOMY

  19. Tom Martin Says:

    Increased auction prices may signal depreciation of the U.S. dollar.

    I wonder if the auction prices increased if they are converted to Yen. Swiss Francs, or pounds of gold and compared with a couple years ago.

  20. Tom Martin Says:

    The Mustang 1000 lap challenge is another interesting way to get a point across to sell cars.

    This is similar to last year’s race car driver Jamie Edwards drivng a Fusion Hybrid. However, it turned me off when Edwards almost got 100 mpg. Something smells fishy.

    It will turn me off again if the Mustang gets over 40 mpg, and I bet it will.

  21. dave Says:

    NICK, I know that you guys may know more about what US police officers need..I mean what do I know..I just drive one every day and understand the police line of thought. But, heck after 15 years…what do i know!@!@$#

  22. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ Dan Busch:How does the “kit car” produced by Mongoose depreciate the value of the real ones? I have followed my absolute favorite car in the world (AC Shelby Cobras)for years.REAL AC Shelbys with the 289 go for over $1Mil…..all day long.A genuine 427 side oiler goes for an easy double that amount.BTW,the AC Cobras are THE MOST COPIED car in history,and it never hurt the value of the originals.Don’t take my word for it either,check out the auction houses and see what originals sell for.Chevy (GM) will be having a field day for the other “vintage vettes” that are being produced,as shown on PowerBlock TV just two weeks ago.

  23. First on Race Day (FORD) Says:

    Did you guys ever hear of intellectual property? Yea, it may promote the GM product, but who’s right is that? Certainly only the creator, i.e., GM. This has nothing to do with hurting the value of originals. It has something to do with ownership and the right to that, especially if copywrited. Ford has sent cease and desist letters to aftermarket companies using the Mustang trademark, even when they are promoting Ford products to enthusiast.

  24. G.A.Branigan Says:

    I have first hand experience with what you say Pedro.For over 3 decades I have subsidized my VA disability pay by building and repairing and restoring Harley Davidsons.Back in the late 80′s,to mid 90′s the HD factory would send out what we referred to as the harley gestapo to all the aftermarket harley shops.They busted hundreds of shops around the country just for displaying the bar and shield logo,let alone actual “Harley” reference in the shops name.Our outlaw shops kept the factory alive when owned by AMF where quanity,not quality was king.We certainly did infringe on the “intellectual property” of HD,but we never knew anything about that.In fact,the factory and “us” got along great until it was bought back by the “family” in 84 I think.Then they went after all of us with a mindless vengence.The result of that?Look at all the aftermarket shops now that build custom v-twins and seriously compete against harley.My point? I think the aftermarket can build a vette look-a-like,NOT use any kind of GM/chevy logo and be perfectly legal.

  25. Rick Wakefield Says:

    John,
    The fact that a few Exotic’s brought big money at an Auction has as much to do with the recession as the price of Camel hair in Mongolia.

  26. Nick Stevens Says:

    “# dave Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    NICK, I know that you guys may know more about what US police officers need..I mean what do I know..I just drive one every day and understand the police line of thought. But, heck after 15 years…what do i know!@!@$#”

    What is THIS?

    Is this your “thank you” for me ONLY INFORMING YOU about the new BMW Diesel 425 lbft Torque cruiser?

    You would only be so LUCKY to get one of these, just from the ENGINE standpoint, forget the rest of the CUSTOM MADE for YOUR needs, not some cheapo Impala, Charger, or Crown Vic.

    But as a Taxpayer who will pay for your vehicle, if you prefer the cheapo crap, you are doing me a HUGE favor!

  27. Max Christensen Says:

    Nick, why do you always have to be such an arrogant asshole? Nobody in here should have to say “thank you” to you for anything, other than keeping your mouth shut. For that, I would issue a tremendous “THANK YOU”!

  28. Nick Stevens Says:

    “At long last, police in Harrison, NY, agree with NHTSA findings that “driver error caused the crash of a Toyota Prius in this New York suburb,” says the Wall Street Journal. The converted Harrison police chief would even drive a Prius.

    Capt. Anthony Marraccini, acting chief of the Harrison police, said there was no mechanical or electrical failure in the car: “The vehicle accelerator in this case was depressed 100 percent at the time of collision. There is absolutely no indication of any brake application.”

    Marraccini was the last to come to this conclusion. Before, he had complained about NHTSA trampling on his turf, about Toyota not giving him their laptop, and refused to rule out driver error. Later, he said driver error was “a possibility.”

    In the highly publicized case, a 56-year-old housekeeper had driven her employer’s 2005 Prius down the employer’s driveway, where, as she claimed, the Prius developed a mind of its own and sped up despite her braking. The car reached a top speed of 35 miles per hour during a short drive that ended across a busy street.

    The car slammed into a stone wall at 27 mph. Car and wall were damaged, driver was not seriously hurt. Toyota’s reputation, at the time reeling from the James Sikes caper, took a damging hit.

    Marraccini now did a 180 and said he believes that Toyota Prius cars are safe, says Reuters. “Quite honestly, I would have no reservations about putting my own family” in a Toyota Prius, Marraccini said.”

    Let us know how you REALLY feel, Max (hint: Like a total damned fool?)

  29. Nick Stevens Says:

    http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/03/Picture-178.png

    THIS Tata Nano is HOT!

  30. Nick Stevens Says:

    “Joel Ewanick is a name you’re probably not familiar with. I wouldn’t blame you, he works in Marketing, which is a pretty dull affair. However, you may be familiar with his work. He helped bring Hyundai to the mainstream with clever and well executed marketing plans. The Hyundai Assurance Plan (lose your job, return your car) was his idea. Not to mention during 2009, when the car industry was failing, his marketing plans helped Hyundai increase market share and even turn a good profit. Advertising during the Superbowl? His idea. Advertising at the Academy Awards? His idea again. Hyundai’s market share grew from 3 percent to 4.4 percent as of February (according to data from Autodata). To cap it all, he was named Marketer of the Year 2009 (the year of carmageddon) by Advertsing Age. So why am I writing about him? Well, he’s leaving Hyundai. ..”

    Not your average no good overpaid exec…. and a BIG loss for Hyundai.

    But I predicted all that, when I suggested that even KRAFCIK, Hyundai’s US head, may soon be lured to a rival maker, for the rite price, if the Koreans don’t match it and more.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The idea of a purpose-built police car sounds great, but it is hard to imagine that a small, upstart company like Carbon Motors can design and build them without having to sell them at very high prices. Carbon will need to convince government units buying the cars that they will last twice or three times as long as other alternatives, which could be the case if they design them really well.

    Since the discussion about post office vans, I heard from a guy who works in the postal system that Grumman is not interested in building any more postal vans, at least for prices that would be even close to regular production vehicles like Transit Connect. This is an area, like police cars, where purpose-built vehicles make sense, but there may not be any more of them when the current fleet is retired.

  32. Nick Stevens Says:

    Kit,

    I am amazed by the whole deal with BMW. it was BMW’s largest engine sale ever. The little company that makes the custom cruiser has only 12,500 orders vs the 240,000 engines. I don’t know what they are counting on. Will Government subsidize them, now that the very expensive engine is ordered from Overseas? I can hear Ford Howl!

  33. Nick Stevens Says:

    At their low speeds, mail vans don’t have to be aerodynamic, so one could make a basic hybrid van designed to go around town only, with a far smaller engine, gas tank, etc than regular family hybrids with 500+ mile ranges. They can also modify the van to be short, narrow but quite tall without major loss of MPG at 20-40 MPH it will operate most of the time in urban mail delivery.

    If the post office makes a big enough order over many years, a maker could perhaps develop the above, which will DOUBLE the MPG of the existing vans, and cut pollution and noise by 95%!

  34. Nick Stevens Says:

    More details of this custom police cruiser deal:

    “Financial terms of the deal to provide more than 240,000 inline, six-cylinder engines over a multiyear period were not disclosed. BMW retrofits cars and motorcycles for police in Germany, but not in the United States.

    Carbon Motors says it has advance orders from 350 police agencies for 13,000 vehicles — with the Carbon E7 the first to come out in 2013. It would also like to export vehicles.

    Last year, Carbon acquired a 1.8-million-square-foot former Visteon factory in Connersville but needs government loans to start production. It said it will create approximately 10,000 jobs, including 1,550 direct jobs.

    Carbon is taking on Ford Motor Co., which sells about 75 percent of the police cars in the United States.

    The company said the United States has more than 450,000 law enforcement patrol vehicles that consume over 1.5 billion gallons of gasoline and emit more than 14 million tons of greenhouse gas emissions annually. The Carbon E7 will cut these figures by up to 40 percent.

    “We estimate that if the whole country were to switch over to the Carbon E7, we could save taxpayers in excess of $10 billion over 10 years,” said William Santana Li, chairman and CEO of Carbon Motors.

    Li said the vehicle will get a combined fuel efficiency rating of 35 mpg.

    Carbon Motors will unveil the pricing of the E7 in a year, Li said, but promised that its prices would be “fully competitive,” noting that a police car can cost $20,000 to $25,000 from a dealer, but reach $50,000-60,000 when special equipment is added.

    Li declined to speculate on the company’s future market share, but said it could be profitable selling 10,000 vehicles a year.

    Since 2007, BMW has been working to expand its powertrain business by selling engines to other companies. Ian Robertson, a BMW board member, said despite better fuel efficiency and lower emissions, the diesel engines will deliver 40 percent more torque.

    Ford is taking the competition seriously. Two weeks ago, it unveiled its new Police Interceptor, its replacement for the Crown Victoria.”

    From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100323/AUTO01/3230322/1148/auto01/BMW-to-supply-police-vehicle-startup-hoping-to-compete-with-Ford#ixzz0j0c2YdsU

  35. Nick Stevens Says:

    Some of the above is wishful thinking on the part of Li. I am not even sure if the vehicle can get 35 COMBINED EPA, highway maybe. The Jetta diesel with half the HP and torque and 2/3 of the weight barely gets 35 combined.

    other numbers in the article also sound optimistic to me.

  36. Nick Stevens Says:

    http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/24568/

    From MIT’s alumni mag: Indian Hybrid Moped with amazingly high MPG claimed: 120 KM per liter gas.

    That’s a mind-boggling 282 miles per US gallon according to my calcs!!!

    perfect for warm climates driving around town in the third world..

  37. Nick Stevens Says:

    And costs only $1,000 and has a top speed of 65 KPH (40 MPH), who needs more around town?

  38. Shaagga Says:

    Hi John: very interesting piece on the Toyota stockholders planning to sue Toyota. Curious to see how that will work out??
    Regarding Toyota’s continuing PR debacle, I would be interested in seeing you do a news item regarding Toyota’s plan to dump their unfunded pension liability for their NUMMI operation onto the US taxpayer via the USPBG fund.
    How is it that, A)- they can even consider doing such a thing with all the cash that they have in the bank and B)- how is it that the US government has no way to prevent them from doing this??
    There are some things here that I don’t understand and would find it helpful if you were to do a news item on this topic.
    Although it isn’t automotive product related it would seem to fall into the same category as the stockholder issue and therefore deserve coverage.
    I am sure that there are others like myself that would find this topic newsworthy.
    thanks

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It sounds like Carbon plans to buy those 240,000 BMW engines over 24 years. I bet the engines BMW builds will change a few times between now and then.

    There is no way the cars will get 35 mpg combined, but it sounds quite reasonable that they would do 40% better than the alternatives, especially the Crown Vics they’d be replacing, and the V-8 Chargers.

  40. Max Christensen Says:

    Ah, the “Nick Stevens Show” continues! Maintaining your typical 35-40% of the postings, I do wonder why you don’t start your own auto blog?

  41. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I bet that moped gets its 120 KM/liter the same way the Chevy Volt will get 200 MPG. It’s based on starting with a battery fully charged by plugging it in, and then riding/driving a while on gas after the battery is run down.

  42. Nick Stevens Says:

    Kit:

    I did not realize it was a plug-in. That explains it, and actually its 282 MPG is far, far more believable than the Volt’s 230 MPG.

    I am not even sure if the Volt calc includes the cost of electricity.

    If it does not, given my 1.5 mile commute, if I bought a volt for that, it would give me 1,000,000 miles a gallon and more!

  43. Nick Stevens Says:

    Dumbass Max:

    if you don’t like my show, tell me where I should send your $ back.

    Stupid Ankle-biter!

    PS did you hurl a false charge against toyota yet, today?

    Why don’t YOU try to contribute something of interest instead of whining like a dumb, annoyi ng 5 year old?

  44. Nick Stevens Says:

    Note that Max does not protest the inane, far more frequent, far less FACTUAL, rants of Hyundai Smoke… maybe because both of them are 100% USDA choice Toyota Haters?

    LOL…

  45. Max Christensen Says:

    Nick,

    I don’t see your name at the top of the show, so how does it suddenly become “your show”? Talk about a dumbass……..

    I have not hurled one single false charge against Toyota ….. and if you think (are you capable of thinking?) I have, please repeat it for all to see? Once again, dumbass…….

    As to being a 5-year old, I’ll repeat something I said about you some time ago. You are probably some little POS high school dropout who is still living at home in Mommy and Daddy’s basement and you really don’t have a life other than to spend your days pretending to be an auto-nut! Well, I guess the last half of that is correct ………

    As to Hyundai Smoke, you make him sound and look like a genius ………. and can we say it one more time…………. DUMBASS!!!