AD #3641 – Mahindra Getting EV Tech From VW; Ford Delays MEB-Based Explorer; Nissan Axing the Altima
September 5th, 2023 at 12:17pm
Listen to “AD #3641 – Mahindra Getting EV Tech From VW; Ford Delays MEB-Based Explorer; Nissan Axing the Altima” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 10:07
0:00 VW CEO Not Worried About Chinese Taking Over EU
2:09 Ford Delays MEB-Based Explorer
2:42 Mahindra Getting EV Tech From VW
3:04 VW Wants Each Brand to Have Own Design DNA
4:19 Audi Q6 e-tron is 1st PPE-Based EV
5:23 Concept CLA Shows Mercedes’ Electric Future
6:25 BMW Reveals Neue Klasse EV
7:07 Altima Sedan Getting the Axe
7:43 Nissan Delays Kicks Production Due to Theft
8:04 GM’s Cruise Keeps Expanding
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
The IAA auto show has kicked off in Munich, Germany so I’m sure we’ll have a lot of coverage throughout the week. John is even in-person at the show, so hopefully we’re able to bring you some exclusive content as well. Whether here or on our social media channels. Also, if that has you wondering about Autoline After Hours this week, there will be a show. Co-host Gary Vasilash has a panel all lined up and we’ll provide some more details tomorrow.
VW CEO NOT WORRIED ABOUT CHINESE TAKING OVER EU
Now let’s get to the news. Volkswagen is making a lot of noise in Munich. And not just with product either. While many European executives have voiced concern about Chinese automakers coming in and taking over the lower priced segments, VW Group CEO Oliver Blume says he’s not worried at all. Even though Chinese automakers can make cars 20% cheaper, they still have to adapt their vehicles for European regulations and build out their sales and service networks. And because of that Blume says the same car might be twice as expensive in Europe as it is in China. We’ll say, Blume might be right for now, but we hope he’s not banking on that being the case over the long haul. Besides, VW still has a lot of work to do itself in China. Sales of its ID family of EVs have underperformed and it just cut the price on another one of the EVs in the country. To help try and turn that around VW has plans for new electric vehicles that ride on new platforms with improved performance, software and batteries. It’s developing a new standardized or what it calls “unified” battery cell with Chinese company Gotion that will use new processes like dry coating and will come in chemistries that reduce cobalt and nickel, like LFP or lithium iron phosphate. VW says these batteries will cost half as much to make as the batteries in its current EVs.
FORD DELAYS MEB-BASED EXPLORER
And it sounds like those benefits were enough to convince Ford that it needed to push back production of the new Explorer. Ford is buying VW’s MEB platform to use on that model and it’s going to build it at its plant in Cologne, Germany. But it’s pushing production back by about 6 months until the summer of next year while it waits for those new batteries. Reuters reports Ford will also start production of a second MEB-based vehicle at its German plant just a few weeks after the Explorer.
MAHINDRA GETTING EV TECH FROM VW
And it’s not just Ford using VW’s MEB platform. Volkswagen says it’s “in well advanced talks with Mahindra as another important cooperation partner.” Mahindra wants to use parts like VW’s electric motor and new unified battery cells, which could be a good revenue stream for the company.
VW WANTS EACH BRAND TO HAVE OWN DESIGN DNA
But it needs to keep coming out with new products, and CEO Oliver Blume says that each brand in the group needs to have their own design DNA, which means they need to be even more different from one another than they are now. It says the new ID.GTI and Cupra DarkRebel concepts are an indication of its electric future. And wow these two models couldn’t look much more different from each other, even though they’re both based on the updated MEB+ platform. The ID.GTI looks like a Golf GTI while the Cupra looks like… well… a spaceship? It’s a very angular little 2-seater that looks like the BMW Concept Touring Coupe, which is a new-age interpretation of the old M Coupe, often called the Clown Shoe. VW says the new MEB+ platform features a 10% improvement in range and efficiency, fast charging of less than 20 minutes and acceleration of 0-100 km/h in under 5 seconds. Models off of this platform will start coming out in 2025 and some will have starting prices under 25,000 euros.
AUDI SHOWS 1ST PPE-BASED MODEL
And next year we’ll start seeing models that ride on its new PPE platform, which was jointly developed by Audi and Porsche. It boasts an 800 volt electronic architecture and over 600 kilometers or 372 miles of range. The Audi Q6 e-tron will be one the first models to sit on the new platform, which will also launch its new software system. As we know, VW’s software division, called CARIAD, has run into problems, which has caused vehicle delays. That’s why it’a opening the Software Defined Vehicle Hub, where employees from not just CARIAD but also Audi and Volkswagen will jointly develop software.
CONCEPT CLA SHOW MERCEDES’ ELECTRIC FUTURE
Mercedes showed off an electric concept that’s a preview of a new family of vehicles it will introduce. Called the Concept CLA Class, it’s built on Mercedes’ upcoming modular architecture platform and the range will consist of four models, a four-door coupe, a wagon and two SUVs. The company didn’t reveal battery pack details but says the concept has a range of 750 kilometers or 466 miles based on the WLTP cycle. The 800 V platform can provide 400 kilometers or 248 miles of range in 15 minutes of charging. Other features include a new operating system that uses supercomputing and artificial intelligence. The concept also features many sustainable materials including CO2 reduced steel and aluminum and sustainably produced and processed leather as well as trim made from paper.
BMW REVEALS NEUE KLASSE EV
BMW also revealed a concept that showcases the design and technology of its future electric vehicles. Called the Vision Neue Klasse, the company didn’t reveal specifics about its electric drivetrain but says it offers 30% more range, 30% faster charging and 25% more efficiency over its current EVs. The interior features a minimalistic design and controls for most functions are located on the steering wheel or through the center display. And like Mercedes’ new concept, the BMW concept features a number of sustainable materials and a more efficient production process.
ALTIMA SEDAN GETTING THE AXE
Nissan is dropping the Altima from its lineup. Automotive News reports that the company will stop producing the model in 2025 in order to focus on EVs. The sedan is still fairly popular in the U.S. and was Nissan’s third best-selling model in the second quarter behind the Rogue and Sentra respectively. And while Nissan is also axing the Maxima from its lineup this year, the company doesn’t plan on abandoning the sedan market, so perhaps these nameplates will live on as electric models.
NISSAN DELAYS KICKS PRODUCTION DUE TO STOLEN MOLDS
And in other Nissan news, the company is delaying production of its new Kicks SUV in Mexico for six months because some mold components were stolen from its supplier. The model was supposed to go into production in December but now it won’t start running down the line until June 2024.
GM’s CRUISE KEEPS EXPANDING
GM’s autonomous unit Cruise is planning to expand into Seattle and Washington DC. The company announced that it has started manual data collection in both cities, which includes gathering info on the local driving environment and climate. This is the first step towards launching robotaxis in the cities, the next step is to map them. Including Seattle and Washington, Cruise is now mapping, testing or operating its vehicles in 15 cities, mostly in the U.S.
But that’s it for today’s show, thanks for watching.
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Comments (23)
September 5th, 2023 at 12:36 pm
I’m headed to Munich tomorrow, I doubt I’ll have time but maybe I can catch the auto show.
September 5th, 2023 at 1:08 pm
Sorry MB I’m still confused on the use of 4-door coupe. So what exactly makes a vehicle a coupe if it’s not a 2 door?
Seems a bit premature for Nissan to drop the Altima, but hey go ahead Nissan and place all those eggs in that EV basket. Not exactly sure why dropping a model that’s already been designed, engineered and been in production for years will somehow allow them to focus on EV models. It’s basically a manufacturing’s concern now and shouldn’t prevent Nissan from developing anything new but I guess it sounds good.
September 5th, 2023 at 1:58 pm
2 M-B is mostly credited with inventing the term “4-door coupe” for the CLS in about 2004. To M-B and others, a downward sloping roof line makes it a 4-door coupe. They, and other companies even apply the term to expensive lifted hatchbacks, like Porsche Cayenne Coupe.
September 5th, 2023 at 2:10 pm
2 Nissan seems to be copying Ford, in dropping some of their better selling products. Ford is dropping Escape, their best selling crossover, and dropped Fusion which was selling reasonably well. Also, Chrysler is dropping all of their remaining cars, to be replaced by EVs sometime in the future.
There seems to be disagreement about what will happen with the Chevy Malibu. I’ve read different places that it will soon be dropped, and that there will be a next generation in 2025. If they keep it, they need to revive the hybrid they dropped a few years ago, and improve it.
September 5th, 2023 at 2:26 pm
How big is the electric MB CLA? The current CLA is pretty small, so it would be nice if the new one was roomier.
September 5th, 2023 at 2:57 pm
I have totally given up on expecting body style names to be sensible. Manufacturers call it what ever they want. If it helps sales by saying it’s a coupe or a cuv, why not go for it?
September 5th, 2023 at 3:04 pm
My Mother had a Lincoln, I think 1962? with 4 doors that was a coupe by MB standards (no B pillar). Huge V8. Suicide back doors. Loved that car. Change radio stations with a button on the floor, and much more.
September 5th, 2023 at 3:30 pm
7 The common term in the ’50s-’70s for cars with no B pillar, both 2 and 4 door, was “hardtop.”
September 5th, 2023 at 3:39 pm
7 The convertible version of that car was one of few 4 door convertibles made, at least in my lifetime. Maybe it’s the only one from a major car company.
September 5th, 2023 at 4:10 pm
It looks like the M-B A-Class, not sold in the US, will continue as an ICEr, while the CLA is going electric. The A-Class is sold about everywhere in the the world, except the US, as a hatchback and sedan. The sedan was sold in the US for a few years, but was dropped after 2022.
September 5th, 2023 at 4:37 pm
Regarding the CLA-Class concept, the original EQS concept was gorgeous, but became the ‘okay’ and arguably not as attractive EQS production vehicle. Now we have the this concept CLA-Class…? ‘Fool once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!’ Let’s wait until we see the production the road going car!
September 5th, 2023 at 4:43 pm
The Vision Neue Klasse EV, while attractive, it reminds me of a vehicle you’d find on a Saturday morning or cable cartoon show. Very simple inside and out and not a lot of definition, in term of shape. Quoting BMW’s CEO and head designer of the concept, AutoCar and Car and Driver mentioned that the brand patterned the vehicles look after exterior styling of the brand’s original, Neue Klasse of the 1960’s. While the 60’s look may be apparent, appealing and the right direction to go in, removing much of everything else (save for those huge ugly grills), while going them a fresh start, IMHO, gives up a lot of good that some have come to associate with the brand as well! While I’m a BMW fan for life and excited about their ICE AND BEV futures, I can’t help but be highly interested and a little nervous about the styling direction of their upcoming vehicles. Exciting times indeed!
September 5th, 2023 at 4:53 pm
A week or so ago a friend had a 5 series loaner, and that is maybe the only current BMW that they haven’t uglified the front end of.
The only 4 wheeled BMWs I’ve had are Minis, and they haven’t messed them up too badly.
September 5th, 2023 at 4:54 pm
Regarding VW’s direction to their brands to have more of an individual look, IMHO, it is only Bentley, Porsche and Bugatti that consistently maintain a look that is all their own. There is a lot of carry over between much of their other mass market brands and at times you can see a lot of Audi influence in Lamborghini styling! I’m not saying that the designs are not good, but when the CEO of your company calls you out on it, then it must be painfully obvious from the customer standpoint!
September 5th, 2023 at 5:49 pm
OK, please consider this distinction in bodystyle terms. Coupes, convertibles, hardtops, sedans, and wagons referred to very distinct bodystyle… particularly when combined with the number of doors. Coupes have close-coupled seating, often accompanied with a sloping roof and/or shorter wheelbase than a sedan or conventional hardtop. Hardtops and sedans often had common wheelbases… hardtops lacked door window frames (pure hardtops also lacked B-pillars). Hardtops and sedans were offered in both 2-door and 4-door configurations. Even wagons had variations… 2-door vs. 4-door, sedan vs. hardtop vs. pillared hardtop.
Too often people used the term “coupe” for a 2-door bodystyle… but many 2-doors were very common with 4-doors… same wheel base, similar roofline, similar couple distance.
So, a 4-door coupe is a close-couple vehicle with less wheelbase or couple distance and a sloping roof when compared to its parental 4-door hardtop or sedan.
I don’t claim a 4-door coupe makes sense. If a customer cares enough for independent/improved access to the rear seat, why would that customer want the poor rear seat occupant to suffer greatly reduced head room and foot/leg/knee room?!?!
September 5th, 2023 at 8:02 pm
15 There have been a few 4 door hardtop wagons. The ones I remember are early ’60s Chryslers.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/klockau-classics/1961-chrysler-new-yorker-town-country-pillarless-finery/
September 5th, 2023 at 9:35 pm
15 Yep, in the ’50s and ’60s, I remember “2 door sedan” being used for 2 door cars with B pillars and the same roof shape, wheelbase, and rear seat space as the 4 door versions.
September 5th, 2023 at 10:00 pm
The non-convertible VW Beetle was called “sedan.” At one time, “sedan” didn’t have to do with the number of doors. As Drew said, coupe generally meant closer coupled with less rear seat room. In the US, there were “business coupes” which had no back seat, and lots of storage space where the back seat would have been.
September 6th, 2023 at 3:28 am
If Tesla doesn’t start expanding its lineup of traditional cars
, competitors who can actually supply vehicles are going to be making inroads.
The reworked Model 3 is far less special now (already available here in Europe) – its main advantages continue to be the charging network and software, while outright turnoffs have been added. Little ‘details’ like missing turn signal stalks matter – it seems the Cybertruck has no outlets in the frunk, unlike competitors.
Taking your customers for granted is never a good idea, and Tesla just can’t compete on luxury. Not sure about service.
Something like the little, very spiffy and cheap BYD Seagull, designed by Wolfgang Egger’s team there, shows how the challenge is evolving. VW has basically been evicted from the Chinese EV market.
What’s happening in the US with regards to monster EVs of nearly 4 tons weight reminds me of the giant land yachts that totally decoupled domestic industry from the rest of the world.
September 6th, 2023 at 5:18 am
Thanks Kit. I also recall wagons being available in hardtop and pillared/framed configurations. We also recall 2-door wagons like the Chevy Nomad.
September 6th, 2023 at 7:59 am
Thanks for the explanation, Drew and Kit. However, a small backseat or sloping roofline seems pretty subjective, I guess I just prefer the simplicity of 2 door = coupe and 4 door = sedan. I guess its not much different than calling todays wagons SUVs the only difference being ride height.
September 6th, 2023 at 8:11 am
20) Maybe Nissan had it right all those years ago when they called the Maxima 4DSC(Four door sports car). Sounds better than four door coupe.
September 6th, 2023 at 9:02 am
19 Chevy Nomads are highly collectible. I think some years of them are worth more than same year convertibles.
20 There’s a big difference between SUVs, even “crossover” SUVs, and station wagons. The SUVs are not only lifted, but the bodies themselves are much taller. The closest thing available to a Camry wagon is a Highlander, and the Highlander, while the same length within an inch, is 11 inches taller, and 800-900 pounds heavier. If they made a Camry wagon, it would be the same height as the sedan, and probably weigh only 200-300 pounds more.