Episode 325 – Chicago Show Reveals: Ford Edge & Silverado HD, Volvo S60 Sneak Peek
February 10th, 2010 at 12:00pm
Runtime 6:41
Major reveals from the Chicago Auto Show, which include the Ford Edge and the heavy-duty version of the Chevy Silverado. Looking to the Geneva Auto Show, we get a sneak-peek at the all-new Volvo S60. All that and more, plus John responds to your comments on our report on using “power-to-weight” to measure performance.
Transcript and Story Links after the jump . . .
Here are today’s top headlines. Major reveals from the Chicago auto show, which include the Ford Edge and the heavy-duty version of the Silverado. And looking to the Geneva show, we get a sneak peek at the all-new Volvo S60.
Up next, we’ll be back with the news behind the headlines.
This is Autoline Daily for Wednesday, February 10, 2010. And now, the news.
Here’s the latest news from the Chicago auto show.
Chevy unveiled the new Silverado HD today. There were only subtle changes to the exterior, most of the effort went into upgrading the chassis and powertrain. A new Duramax 6.6-liter turbodiesel V-8 is offered that’s mated to an all-new Allison six-speed automatic transmission. In order to meet emission standards it uses a urea-based after-treatment fluid which needs to be refilled every 5,000 miles. Final fuel economy numbers aren’t in, but as we reported it can run on B20.
The new Ford Edge debuted at the Chicago auto show today. It’s actually an update, but a significant update. It has a very different front-end, with some minor modifications on the rear. But inside it has an all-new interior that is a significant improvement over the prior model. The fit and finish, the quality of the materials and the overall design is nothing short of fantastic. The Edge will offer three engines, a 3.0- and 3.5-liter V-6 and a 2.0-liter EcoBoost four-cylinder. No official word yet on the fuel economy of the four, but it should come in at 31 mpg highway. That’s 7.5 liters per 100 kilometers. Ford also claims that this will be the quietest vehicle in its class, quieter than the Lexus RX or Audi Q5.
Ford also showed an updated Shelby GT500. The revised alpha Mustang gets a 10-horsepower bump for a grand total of 550. But the biggest news has to do with the engine itself. The GT500 still packs a supercharged 5.4-liter V-8, but it now features an aluminum block which shaves 102 pounds off its curb weight. The engine also features Ford’s patented plasma cylinder wall coating that eliminates the need for conventional iron or steel liners. Add it all up and the new Shelby Mustang not only makes more power but also gets better fuel economy – enough to sidestep the gas-guzzler tax. Ford projects that it’ll get 15 miles per gallon in the city – about 16 L/100 km – and 23 on the open road which is roughly 10 L/100 km.
OK, we now move from the Chicago auto show to the one next month in Geneva, where the all-new Volvo S60 is set to debut. Four engines are available from the start, two gas and two diesel. Later, three gas engines and another diesel will be added to the portfolio. Two chassis variants are offered. One is softer for a smoother ride and the other is a sporty variant. In North America and Asia the softer one will be standard but in Europe the sporty one will be standard. New for the S60 is Advanced Stability Control which uses a sensor to identify skidding earlier. The S60 goes on sale this summer and will be built in Belgium. Volvo is targeting 90,000 sales a year with two-thirds coming from North America and Europe.
Coming up next, it’s time for You Said It!
And now it’s time for some of your feedback.
A lot of you responded to our move to use the power-to-weight ratio of a car as a better measure than horsepower or torque to indicate the potential performance of a car. But a lot of you protested how we were reporting it.
John C. Briggs says, “You keep saying power-to-weight ratio but you are actually calculating weight-to-power ratio.”
Well, yes and no, John. First off, we like the term power-to-weight, because it’s been used longer and trips off the tongue easier than weight-to-power. But what we should have done is report that we’re looking at how much weight one horsepower has to lug around. So, for example, a ratio of 1:18, that is one horsepower has to lug around 18 pounds, which is the power-to-weight ratio for most family cars.
And our international viewers think we need to provide metric conversions to help them understand what we’re reporting. 7926645 on YouTube writes in to say, “Can you put it in kilograms, as well as pounds for us Europeans?”
Yes, 79, we can do that. So going back to my prior example, most family cars have a power to weight ratio of 1:8, that is one horsepower has to lug around 8 kilograms.
And wildbloodydragon wants a point of clarification. He asks, “Did you use horsepower at the crank for the power-to-weight ratio or at the wheel? And, do we have to take the driver weight into account as well?”
Well, wildbloodydragon, automakers use SAE certification to rate the power of their engines, and I’m pretty sure that comes off the crank. And no, we don’t use the driver weight in the car, since we use the automaker’s published data on the curb weight. And since driver’s can vary a lot in their weight, that figure does not involve a driver or any passenger.
Don’t forget to tune in to Autoline After Hours tomorrow, when Jason Vines will join us to critique how Toyota has been handling the crisis on its hands. Jason has first-hand experience in crisis management and we’ll see what he has to say about Toyota’s efforts.
And that’s it for today’s top news in the global automotive industry. Thanks for watching, we’ll see you tomorrow.
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Comments (32)
February 10th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
Ford is coming on strong, their reveals sound great and their new eco boost engines, appear to cutting edge. Are we witnessing a rebirth in the US Auto industry?
February 10th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Gm is also going well, has several models that are far more attractive than any Fords. (Equinox, new Lacrosse, Malibu, and later the Cruze)
it all depends how well will the crucial new models (Fiesta, New Focus, Cruze, maybe Spark for Chevy) be received by both the industry experts, auto journals and shows, and the consumers.
My guess is than when these new models finally appear, they will be far from perfect, as the makers will be cutting corners to be able to sell them at a reasonable price, and use not the best engines and transmissions and interiors etc etc.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
“2.0-liter EcoBoost four-cylinder. No official word yet on the fuel economy of the four”
Forget the fuel economy, you did not even give us the HP and/or Torque of these engines. The Edge is a very heavy vehicle, and I wonder if any 4-cylinder will be able to adequately move a 4,400 or 4,800 lb vehicle, with another 1,200 lbs of 5 obese passengers and their stuff thrown in!
February 10th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
I’d like to see a “may the best car win” comparison between the Ford/Shelby GT500 and the most recent and advanced version of the Chevrolet Corvette. Bear in mind that what I’m asking for is not just a comparison of acceleration and speed, but also: Which one will have the best lap time on various racing courses (Indianapolis Motor Speedway, various Formula I courses)?
February 10th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
I don’t think it is a fair comparison, if it is the GT, which is a supercar/race car that sells only a few units a year, and the far more mass-produced Corvette, even its ZR-1 or whatever the top factory Corvette is now.
The two cars are not in the same segment.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
If the new Edge weighs the same as the old one, it will be 600 pounds heavier than an Equinox which does 10-11 seconds 0-60 with the four. I would expect Ford’s turbo four to be a little over 200 hp as opposed to 182 for the non-turbo Equinox. Still, that turbo four is going to spend a lot of time in “busy” mode in the lower gears to move the Edge around.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
nick stevens, the 1 who knows all is guessing, what has the world come to…
February 10th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
I do hope that Ford’s idea of no cyl liners in their block works better than one of the past attempts. Anyone here old enough to remember the Vega?
February 10th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
Is Ford really on the right track with all these turbo engines they are planning on using? I found a good comparison of two cars of similar weight, power, and performance, the “EcoBoost” Lincoln MKS and the Lexus LS460. They weigh almost exactly the same, and turn the same 0-60 and quarter mile times within 0.2 seconds. The Lexus, powered by a conventional V8 gets better gas mileage than the turbo Lincoln, both in EPA ratings and Consumer Reports testing. The Lincoln is AWD which would hurt it a little, but the Lexus was 3 mpg better in CR’s “overall” gas mileage results, and 2 mpg better in the EPA highway cycle. I doubt the AWD would nearly account for that in two cars that weigh the same, as equipped.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
# EAB Says:
February 10th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
“I do hope that Ford’s idea of no cyl liners in their block works better than one of the past attempts. Anyone here old enough to remember the Vega?”
I remember the Vega, and yes, it really had “issues.” It has turned out, though, that the basic technology works. Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, and BMW have used it successfully for many years. I had a 1982 BMW bike with sleeveless cylinders, and it held up well.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
I’m just curious, when cars with the sprayed in liner need a rebuild, how will a overbore be done? It currently is an expensive technology that our local mechanic won’t have access to, so if I’m rebuilding my classic 2011 Shelby 20-30 years down the road, how will it be done?
February 10th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Man, these are exciting times; even with the all out battle for sales, the manufacturers are still banging out new, improved and exciting product. Stealing GM’s slogan, “May the best car win”.
And the Mustang (Cobra or not) needs to be compared to the Camaro. While the Camaro is more of a main stream model (not a limited edition), like-platform comparisons should prevail, so Chevy will just have to yield top dog (at least until the rumored Z-28 debuts).
February 10th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
“# paulstewart Says:
February 10th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
nick stevens, the 1 who knows all is guessing, what has the world come to…”
How come you NEVER have contributed anything of value to this group, but onlu crawl under your rock to attack and badmouth others here? IF you HAVE ever posted anything of value, let me know.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
Your easily bad mouthed #1 and I have posted numerous statements at the very start of John’s daily show and his Sunday program also. Look at programs in the past. Your very close to an indivudual that was name “Thor”, he commented alot and said nothing at the same time too.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
I don’t know where you got the 4400-4800 lbs quote for the Edge. (it’s the VW/Audi/Porker competitor that is 4800-6000lbs) The current Edge Limited with a V6, AWD, and all the options is 4288 lbs, and a base Edge with FWD and V6 is 4055. The Equinox is about 300 lbs lighter, not 600 lbs, unlss you compare the base Equinox with FWD to the Edge Limited with AWD. The I4 Edge should be 100 to 200 lbs lighter, and probably won’t be available with AWD so it shouldn’t be too bad for what it is. It should be similar to the Equinox considering it has an 8% weight penalty and probably a 10% horsepower advantage.
As for comparing a GT500 to a Corvette. That’s silly. The base Corvette has a LOT less weight, IRS, Lower polar moment, and only 115 hp less. They should be similar although I suspect the handling edge would make the Corvette quicker around a track. The Z06 with almost as many horses would easily beat the GT500 and the 630 hp ZR1 wouldn’t have to breath hard to stay well in front.
A much more relavent comparison would be the GT500 to the top Camaro. Two heavy four seaters. One with IRS and extra weight, one with live axle.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Oh and AWD generally drops Highway MPG 2 and overall MPG 2-3 (at least for Ford), so comparing it to the FWD Lexus with a V8 it comes out about the same. Autos.MSN.Com shows the LS460 L AWD as 16/23 MPG and the Lincoln MKS Ecoboost AWD as 17/25, but then the Lexus is 435 lbs heavier, so that probably accounts for half the difference.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Hi Nick, very true.
“My guess is than when these new models finally appear, they will be far from perfect, as the makers will be cutting corners to be able to sell them at a reasonable price, and use not the best engines and transmissions”
The advertised Malibu mpg is always for the six speed trany, but the new car lot (better price) cars usually have the four speed and lower MPG. GM deserves credit for the exterior and interior that were better than my 06 accord.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
The 2011 Ford lineup will be outstanding.
Starting this spring, the 300+ hp Mustang V6 and 400+ hp Mustang GT are huge upgrades.
The Fiesta will give the Honda Fit a run for the money, and leaves other competition in the dust.
The Focus will be upgraded and may become Ford’s top selling car.
The Edge and MK* Lincolns will be upgraded with better interiors and engines.
In addition, People will buy a lot of Fords because of the upgraded Sync system.
The eco-boost engines will become available on more cars/trucks and in smaller engine displacements.
And I haven’t mentioned Ford’s current high selling vehicles — the Fusion (with it’s numerous awards) and the F-150.
Ford just needs to keep J.D. Power reliability scores high.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
Umm John, how come you’re not at the show? I didnt take you as a guy who would miss a show.
February 10th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
I own Honda’s because both Ford and GM have both disappointed me and my family in the past. I must say that Honda is steadily falling behind the pack when it comes to styling, innovation and utility.
The new Crosstour and Acura ZDX are a waste of sheet metal. The Element and CR-V are getting very old looking. The Accord, Civic and Fit can stay but the Insight need to be overhauled and given steroids so it can grow in size and horsepower.
Acura’s are looking more and more like Oldsmobiles. Strange styling built on parents company’s (Honda) platforms and powerplants.
Hyundai and Kia are coming on strong, but really haven’t but together an ad campaign that makes you want one of their vehicles unless you want the security of a long warranty. Peter D. should take a crack at pitching Hyundai and Kia with a real “Got to have one” ad campaign.
John McElroy will you be at the New York Auto Show this year?
February 10th, 2010 at 8:40 pm
AlfaElan Says:
February 10th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
“I don’t know where you got the 4400-4800 lbs quote for the Edge. (it’s the VW/Audi/Porker competitor that is 4800-6000lbs) The current Edge Limited with a V6, AWD, and all the options is 4288 lbs, and a base Edge with FWD and V6 is 4055.”
I don’t know where you got the 4288 lb., but I got the 4550 lb. I used to compare the Edge to the Equinox from Consumer Reports. I realize that a lot of people hate CR, but there are things they do well. In this case, they bought the car, an SEL AWD, and WEIGHED IT. Their VW Toureg weighed 5000 lb., way more than it should be, but not 6000 pounds. They probably weighed both of them with a full tank of gas.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
AlfaElan says:
“Autos.MSN.Com shows the LS460 L AWD as 16/23 MPG and the Lincoln MKS Ecoboost AWD as 17/25, but then the Lexus is 435 lbs heavier, so that probably accounts for half the difference.”
It looks like the LS460 gains a lot of weight with AWD, and the L version. The LS and MKS I compared in my earlier post had identical published weights. That LS, a short wheelbase, RWD had EPA numbers of 18/27.
February 10th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
“The eco-boost engines will become available on more cars/trucks and in smaller engine displacements.”
It will be interesting to see if the four cylinder Ford turbos provide any advantage over a larger, normally aspirated engine. From the best comparisons possible now, the Ford V6 turbo appears to make about the same power, and have about the same thirst as a good 4.6 liter V8, only the V8 is simpler. Maybe a 1.4 liter turbo making about 140 hp would get significantly better gas mileage than a 2 liter non-turbo of similar power in a car like a Focus.
February 10th, 2010 at 9:55 pm
Yeah, LEX I get what you’re saying prime example:
Last Generation Outgoing Sonata had more power and luxury features than Camry,but its a shame people with their Obvious Anti Hyundai Bias didnt notice.
Last Gen 2006-2010 Sonata had 175 HP Current Camry has 158 HP.
February 11th, 2010 at 3:28 am
Nissan Juke: An AWD Subcompact
“At this moment, the only AWD subcompact, or b-segment vehicle, on the U.S. market is the Suzuki SX4. However, MINI recently announced the Crossman, and now Nissan is going to join in with the Juke. The vehicle is slated to arrive in the U.S. later this year, and will be slotted below the Rogue.
The peculiar-looking Juke will bow at the Geneva Motor Show. It will have a 92.5″ wheelbase, and be 61 inches tall. For comparison’s sake, a Toyota Yaris has a 96.5″ wheelbase, and is 60″ tall. So indeed, the Juke will be a genuine small car.
The Juke will be available in FWD or AWD versions, and (at least in Europe) three engines will be available including normally aspirated, turbo, and diesel engines making 113 hp, 187 hp, and 110 hp, respectively. No word on the U.S. powertrain options yet.
One thing is for sure: It will look like nothing else on the planet road”
http://www.subcompactculture.com/2010/02/nissan-juke-to-join-growing-list-of-awd.html
February 11th, 2010 at 9:03 am
“AlfaElan Says:
February 10th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
“I don’t know where you got the 4400-4800 lbs quote for the Edge. (it’s the VW/Audi/Porker competitor that is 4800-6000lbs) The current Edge Limited with a V6, AWD, and all the options is 4288 lbs, and a base Edge with FWD and V6 is 4055.”
I don’t know where you got the 4288 lb., but I got the 4550 lb.”
I did not remember the exact weight of the Edge, so I gave a range, 4400-4600 lbs, which turned out to include Kit’s more accurate number, but even your numbers are well over 4,000 lbs. There is no reason why such a vehicle should weigh so much. The Honda Odyssey minivan (which however has much more interior room than the Edge) also is quite heavy at 4,600 or so lbs. These are OBESE vehicles, like more than half of their owners!
February 11th, 2010 at 9:10 am
“LEX Says:
February 10th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
I own Honda’s because both Ford and GM have both disappointed me and my family in the past. I must say that Honda is steadily falling behind the pack when it comes to styling, innovation and utility.”
I also still own a 1992 Honda lightweight civic hatch with low miles and looking like new (but very basic in options), and owned another one, an excellent Accord coupe 5-sp 1990 from 94-08. It it true that after 92 for the civic and 94 for the accord, the exterior designs were not that exciting (but some were not bad). But interiors are still first rate, I have a pic of the new Accord with nav interior and it looks like a million $s.
“The new Crosstour and Acura ZDX are a waste of sheet metal. The Element and CR-V are getting very old looking.”
All acuras suck, only star trek fans would like their weird and ugly exteriors, and the Crosstour is near-Aztec ugly.
” The Accord, Civic and Fit can stay but the Insight need to be overhauled and given steroids so it can grow in size and horsepower.”
That will probably make its MPG even worse than it is, and it is much lower than its competitor, the Prius. Plus it will make it more expensive.
“Hyundai and Kia are coming on strong, but really haven’t but together an ad campaign that makes you want one of their vehicles unless you want the security of a long warranty.”
H-K suffer from what GM used to siffer, way too many models chasing too few customers, and selling pitiful numbers every month. I wonder if they make a DIME from their US operations with vehicles routinely selling below… 5,000 units a month, when the Camry and the Civic and the Accord and the Corolla each used to sell 30,000-55,000 a month!!
” Peter D. should take a crack at pitching Hyundai and Kia with a real “Got to have one” ad campaign.”
Who would believe him? I got to have one as much as I got to have a new clothes dryer, and i have not replaced the one I inherited in 1987, when i bought my place, yet!
February 11th, 2010 at 9:12 am
The Ford ecoboosts sound very good on paper, much better MPG from same HP. I think it is way too early to predict that the Fiesta will be better than the Fit, and, if the past is any guide, I bet it will not be.
February 11th, 2010 at 9:14 am
It’s amazing how much weight vehicles have gained over the last 20 years. I have a 1989 Dodge Caravan which weighs about 3200 pounds. It is the short wheelbase, 5 passenger version, and would not be nearly as crashworthy as today’s cars, but that is a huge difference in weight from today’s vehicles.
February 11th, 2010 at 9:18 am
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/10/honda-odyssey-concept-chicago-debut/
Funny I mentioned the Edge and the Odyssey in the same sentence above, since the new Odyssey may look a lot like the Edge (esp. front lights!)!
February 11th, 2010 at 9:19 am
I’m withholding judgment on the ecoboost turbo engines. The best comparison I was able to come up with based on the V6 ecoboost turbo now available shows no fuel economy advantage compared to a normally aspirated V8 of similar power in a car of similar weight. I’m hoping the 4 cylinder versions do better. We should know in a few months.
February 11th, 2010 at 9:35 am
“# Kit Gerhart Says:
February 11th, 2010 at 9:14 am
It’s amazing how much weight vehicles have gained over the last 20 years. I have a 1989 Dodge Caravan which weighs about 3200 pounds. It is the short wheelbase, 5 passenger version, and would not be nearly as crashworthy as today’s cars, but that is a huge difference in weight from today’s vehicles.”
The last few minutes I was reading articles about the several generations of Lincoln Town Cars, and it is equally amazing how huge they were by 1970, and how much weight they had lost by their 1977 redesign, and even more by 1985, while still being huge compared to anything else, and their reduced but still large size made them very popular (sold 179k units in one year!) when Caddilac made its Devilles as small as a.. Chevy Citation, not to mention that failed fraud, the Cavalier=Cimarron.