Episode 457 – 60 MPG Average By 2025, Infiniti G25, Ford Reintroduces Boss Mustang

August 16th, 2010 at 12:00pm

Runtime 7:47

Experts believe that the EPA and NHTSA will announce that automakers must meet a fleet-average of 60 MPG by 2025. Infiniti is jumping on the downsizing trend and has confirmed that it plans to offer a version of its G sedan with a smaller engine. Ford reintroduces the Boss 302 Mustang. All that and more, plus a look at the Audi A5 Sportback.

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This is Autoline Daily for August 16, 2010. And now the news to kick us off on a new week.

60 MPG AVERAGE BY 2025 (subscription required)
Next month the U.S. EPA and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration are expected to announce the next round of fuel-economy goals for 2025. And the numbers are eye-popping. According to Ward’s, experts believe the two agencies will announce that automakers must meet a fleet-average of 60 MPG by 2025, that’s 3.9 L/100 km. Analysts thought it was ambitious for Hyundai Motors America CEO John Krafcik to announce they’ll hit 50 MPG by 2025, and Hyundai only sells passenger cars in the U.S.

INFINITI G25 (subscription required)
And right in line with that announcement, Infiniti is jumping on the downsizing trend and has confirmed that it plans to offer a version of its G sedan with a smaller engine. Dubbed the G25, it’s aimed at buyers who don’t need – or want – the G37’s performance. Ward’s reports the car is powered by a 2.5-liter V-6 delivering 218 horsepower and 187 pound-feet of torque. Sure, the output is smaller but so is the sticker price. The G25 goes on sale in the U.S. next month with a base price of about $31,000. That’s some $2,300 less than the G37.

But before those 60 mile-per-gallon regs kick-in Ford is reintroducing the Boss 302 Mustang. Just like it did 42 years ago, the company is aiming to build the best all-around road-going performance car it can, and it set its sights very high, targeting the BMW M3. At the heart of this reborn 302 is a 5.0-liter V-8 engine. This powerplant is already a strong performer in the Mustang GT, but 412 horsepower is not enough for the Boss. Ford’s engineers were able to squeeze 440 ponies and 380 pound-feet of torque out of it. It features a redesigned intake manifold; a specially tuned exhaust system; revised camshafts and a higher redline. Of course among other enhancements, the suspension and brakes were also upgraded. The ride height was lowered and it features adjustable shock absorbers. Top speed is 155 miles an hour and it’s the first non-SVT mustang to pull more than 1.0 g of lateral acceleration. I can’t wait to drive one of these!

Tata is in talks with its partner in China to build Jaguars and Land Rovers. According to Gasgoo, Tata has been cutting costs in order to grow the two luxury brands in China. Tata wants to build up to 40,000 Jaguars and Land Rovers in China and Land Rover would be the first model put into production. Tata’s future plans include a new entry-level Jaguar, a new Range Rover and hybrid models for both brands.

AUTO INDUSTRY ADDS JOBS (subscription required)
While there’s all kinds of talk of a double-dip recession, and while unemployment remains stubbornly high, the automotive sector is now one of the few bright spots in the American economy. Last month, automakers and suppliers added 20,000 jobs the Wall Street Journal reports. Since the beginning of the year its added 52,000 jobs. But it’s questionable whether the auto industry will keep on adding jobs as this rate. Last month automakers slammed on the brakes when it comes to production. They built 27 percent fewer vehicles than they did in May or June.

The AFP reports that General Motors was supposed to file its IPO on Friday but postponed doing so until next week because of the unexpected announcement by current chairman Ed Whitacre that he will be leaving the company at the end of the year. And that’s got me wondering if there was something specific that triggered Whitacre’s sudden announcement that he’s leaving. Even though Whitacre always indicated he would not be at GM for the long term, clearly his announcement caught everyone by surprise. So what made him wake up that morning and decide that he had had enough?

Coming up next, a look at the Audi A5 Sportback, we’ll be back right after this.

Consumers have more choice than ever when it comes to buying a new vehicle, ranging from traditional trucks and SUVs on one end, to newer options like crossovers on the other. But some offerings available today blur the lines between established segments.

BMW’s X6 is one such half-breed. The company says it combines the style of a coupe with the utility of a crossover. But BMW is not the only automaker that’s mixing and matching. Audi is also following this trend.

With its A5 Sportback, the company is combining sedan comfort with station wagon practicality and wrapping it all in a designer package. Audi calls the combination a five-door coupe. And even though it looks like little more than a hatchback A4, there are differences between the two. For instance, the Sportback sits one and a half inches lower than the sedan, plus, its doors have frameless windows, reinforcing the coupe look. Speaking of styling, designers snuck in a little retro touch. The rearmost side window has an upward-pointing tip, a feature borrowed from the 1969 Audi 100 Coupé S.

In the mechanical department Audi offers a wide array of gasoline and diesel engines including its award-winning 2.0-liter TFSI turbo four and a 240 horsepower diesel V-6.

Sending power to the wheels is a variety of transmissions ranging from a six-speed manual to a CVT to a seven-speed dual-clutch automatic. As you’d expect, quattro all-wheel drive is available on most trim levels. Audi also offers an optional rear sport differential that can shift torque from side to side for better handling.

The car also features a kind of quasi mild-hybrid system. During deceleration it can store extra energy in the battery which it can use to reduce the load on the alternator during acceleration.

Audi’s A5 Sportback may not offer any groundbreaking new features, but it’s stylish and practical. Starting price for an entry-level model is roughly 34,000 Euro, or about $47,000. Too bad for Americans though, Audi is not offering it in the U.S.

Don’t forget to join us for Autoline After Hours Wednesday, August 18, from 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. from the Woodward Avenue Dream Cruise. If you want to join us there, and bring a car, please preregister it. Just go to the John’s Journal section of our website where you can get all the info. We’d love to see you there.

And that’s it for today’s report on the top news in the automotive industry. Thanks for watching, we’ll see you tomorrow.

Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog, WardsAuto.com and WWJ Newsradio 950

42 Comments to “Episode 457 – 60 MPG Average By 2025, Infiniti G25, Ford Reintroduces Boss Mustang”

  1. Roger T Says:

    The only way I see fleet numbers meeting 60mpg average is with Volt like mileage. Sounds to me like EPA wants IC engines as backup on most cars. Agree?

  2. G.A.Branigan Says:

    Looks like everyone’s fleet average is going to have to go from talk,to reality.I have been saying the following till I’m blue in the face….but…….we need diesels,and we need them now.I am especially excited by the new Fiat multi-air diesels that I am led to believe don’t require any after treatment like urea.C’mon car makers,somebody do this,the technology is available,use it.

  3. Ralph Kercheval Says:

    60 MPG CAFE is another example of this government shoving their unrealistic goals down the buying publics throats.

    The majority of the buying public still wants POWER and ROOM in their vehicles. “The Ford F-150 is the best selling vehicle”!! If this was such a great idea WHY isn’t everyone rushing to buy SMART cars??

    When are we going to be able to let the market decide what they want?? Why is there not the availability of diesel models in cars, like the rest of the world?? Are you really looking for economy???

    Would someone PLEASE get our government out of the Free Market and let the buying public decide what works and doesn’t.

    What is next?? NO RED CARS!!

  4. Chuck Grenci Says:

    Boss 302 aims at BMW’s M-3; it’s a fine goal to be sure, however, as a package, I believe the Mustang will have trouble meeting the standard 3 series BMW. Oh, I know it will pull some numbers that look great but the “3″ is so well balanced that the ‘whole’ will not be easily attained. (Better watch out for the upcoming Z-28 too).

  5. tj Martin Says:

    Chuck Grenci;

    Have to concur with you on the BMW M3 being a better balanced package but I’d place dollars to doughnuts the Boss 302 will be a heck of a lot more fun . Just my opinion but for me the newer M3′s are too clinical and sterile feeling at speeds reasonably attainable on the street . Whereas the Mustangs I’ve driven to date are just a blast . Maybe its just my age and era ( 54 ) But especially in light of the price I’d take the Boss 302 in a heartbeat .

    By the way a friend in NZ was bugging me about the release of the new Z/28 . So what have you heard and any links you can recommend I send him too .

  6. tj Martin Says:

    Ralph Kercheval ;

    Tell you what . First off I completely agree . The American Public unless the price of gas jumps ridiculously high will never buy into more fuel efficient cars . Unless the car companies get their combined heads out of their ____ and start offering lighter weight cars with equal or better performance along with better MPG . But just one look at the ever increasing size , weight and amount of junk going into todays cars I don’t see that one happening either .

    But I say all this with one MAJOR caveat . Something needs to happen and it needs to happen quickly . Because we are heading into a collision course with some very bad ramifications if either the Publics buying choices or the Manufactures product don’t change damn soon .

    I’m not much of a fan of Evolution but the ( Want Does not Evolve will Die ” adage will prove itself all too true if things do not change in the Buying and Manufacturing habits of the US .

  7. Dave Says:

    60 mpg..LMAO, Heck Large CC motorcycle dont get that.

  8. Brett Cammack Says:

    The “people” suck at making intelligent choices.

    They want to override the Constitution because they don’t like the idea of an Islamic Community center near the site of the former WTC. They want to override the Constitution because they don’t want gays to marry. They didn’t want interracial marriages. They didn’t want racially integrated schools. They’re Medicare recipients screaming “Keep the government’s hands off my healthcare!!”

    It really doesn’t matter if the “people” want big a**ed, inefficient vehicles. What the “people” need is smaller, fuel-efficient or alternative fuel vehicles, although they’re generally too ill-informed and/or self-absorbed to understand that they are funding people who hate our guts with their stupid addiction to oil or that they’re destroying the planet for future generations.

    Everybody has the right to go to H*** in their own handbasket, but I’ll be damned if you’re going to take me along with you without one heckofa fight.

    BTW – I’ve owned a Shelby GT350, numerous fast, large displacement muscle cars, and half a dozen sportscars. That and raced them, so I’m not some tree-hugger. It was a lot of fun. We didn’t know any better. Now those times are ending and we have to try and save this country and planet for our children.

  9. tj Martin Says:

    Whiteacre leaving GM : One has to wonder if being on the inside Whiteacre hasn’t seen something coming up on GM’s horizon and decided to get out while the getting was good .

    Muller & SAAB ; I’ve been listening and reading Muller’s overly optimistic predictions for how Spyker will save SAAB , but the one question that keeps coming up in my mind and the one I wish some Automotive Journalist would get the nerve to ask Mr. Muller is ;

    In light of the fact that Spyker has yet to make a profit . I s in fact bleeding money faster than a stuck pig , and has made more than its fair share of stupid financial mistakes since its inception ( re; the Spyker F1 debacle ) Why should we believe for an instant that you can do any better with SAAB ?

  10. tj Martin Says:

    Brett Camick;

    Amen to most of what you’ve said .

    Hence this GearHead , who has had his fair share of exotics and Muscle Cars now driving a MINI Cooper . Damn fun . Great Milage and just s hoot to drive . ( sorry if I’m beginning to sound a bit HS in my praise of the MINI )

    But until all those Muscle etc. cars are gone that won’t stop me from renting a gas sucking beast from time to time . Oh but wait . When I rented the ZHZ Corvette it got better milage than the Subaru Outback I had on the previous trip . So maybe its a combination of the Car & the Driver that makes the difference . I’ll bet there are idiots out there getting half the milage in their MINI’s than I get in mine .

  11. tj Martin Says:

    Brett Cammack ( sorry for the mis-spelling )

    I’ll most likely hate my self for bringing this up but there is No Constitutional Guarantee for Gay Marriages or Islamic Centers ON Ground Zero . Marriage as defined by the Authors of the Constitution is the Union between a man and a woman ( put it into historical context if you don’t believe me ). And the Religious Freedom Amendment does not give any implicit permission to place ANY house of worship anywhere .Nor does it give ( in fact it prevents ) the Government the right to insist any House of Worship go up in any particular place . That is the choice of the people .

  12. pedro fernandez Says:

    Ever since the early 80′s, I’ve gotten by driving 4 cyl engines. The exception has been only 3 times I’ve had to rent minivans with 6 cyl.engines. I don’t have a large family nor need to pull anything. but I wonder just how many people MUST have the gas-guzzling V8′s just because they like the power, without any thought for the cost or the environmental impact. I all these folks would switch to smaller, more efficient engines, we’d all be better off.

  13. tj Martin Says:

    Pardon me guys for jumping back on my little soapbox here but this is a thought that has been nagging me for awhile now and maybe some of you can help me resolve this internal conflict of mine .

    With China tossing out more pollution than the US , CDN , EU and UK combined ( forget the per capita crap and look at the actual numbers ) along with India and Russia not being far behind .

    Add in the millions of additional cars the misguided governments of China and India are trying to get into the hand of their general public .

    Really . WTF difference would it make if I were to sell my MINI and buy one of those Gas Sucking 21st century Muscle Cars ?

    My little contribution to the welfare of the Planet isn’t making a spec of difference is it ?

    So other than the personal benefits of lower fuel costs , more accessible parking and easier navigation of my cities streets who the heck am I really benefiting ?

    Any answers ?

    Because there is this part of me that wants to say ( bleep ) it all , if we’re going down anyway , why shouldn’t I go down having a bit of fun in the process ?

  14. wade Says:

    Seems like there is still a great deal of tweaking to do for the internal combustible engine. I think it’s time to pour more funding into R&D into revamping the ICE and making renewable fuel source like algae biofuel a reality. The electrification of cars has too many limitations due to infrastructure and range limits. I rented a few hybrids, one being the prius and it left me feeling empty….just a joyless experience.

  15. Steve Says:

    We could make a significant jump in CAFE by going to diesel, with or without urea. We’ve already seen the fallacy of greenhouse gases, global warming, et al. Nobody was complaining during the last ice age. Oil is produced by the earth, not dead dinosaurs, ask the Rusky’s. We need to take better care of the place, than our parents and grandparents did, we all can agree on that. Our children will need to take better care of it than we will. If we could just settle on how, without throwing the place into a panicked rush, we’d be fine. Until EVERYONE has to abide the same rules, why should anyone?

  16. pedro fernandez Says:

    tj if only a few people did this it wouldn’t amount to a hill of beans, but when a lot of drivers decide to go small, it does make a difference. Compared to the rest of the world, we drive the biggest, most wasteful vehicles. look at Europe their full size cars are like our small ones here.

  17. G.A.Branigan Says:

    People want power….performance…..with economy at the end of the list,for most.Easy to solve,diesel.Want oil independence?Easy,bio-diesel.Nothing strange or spaceage high-tech like opposed piston/cyl stuff.All that can come at a later time when people have settled in loving clean quiet dependable and economic diesels.JMHO.

  18. Mark Y Says:

    tj Martin;

    The environment isn’t the only issue (although it is pretty important) like Brett Cammack said, our oil consumption is funding the very people that what us and our way of life to end.
    As a world leader it is our responsibility to lead by example not with an iron fist.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    If the US had Europe’s vehicle fleet, we probably wouldn’t need to import a drop of oil from the middle east. It seems to me that we need to break our appetite for inefficient vehicles, and now is a good time to start.

    As far as the 60 mpg, that will be tough. The most efficient 5 passenger car now sold is Prius, and it only gets 50 mpg “combined.” Using a diesel engine would get it to somewhat over 60 mpg, but on fuel that contains ~7% more energy per gallon. I don’t know how efficiently today’s hybrids recover energy with their regenerative braking, but I’m sure incremental improvements can be made, over time. Still, a Prius is a car designed for efficiency from the ground up, with the low drag body and Atkinson cycle engine to go along with the hybrid power train, and it falls well short of that 60 mpg target.

  20. tj Martin Says:

    Pedro Fernadez & Mark Y;

    Thanks . Both of your answers are the ones I keep coming back to every time I get a bug to buy something with a bigger motor.

    So I guess unless somebody else can come up with another reason or two , the ones you both put forth are the ones I need to remember to keep myself in check .

    Kit Gerhart ;

    I have serious doubts we’ll be hitting that 60 mpg target anytime soon . Especially when we all know the Prius in real world driving doesn’t even come close . Oh sure the computer tells you it does but try actually measuring your MPG in a Prius . Disappointment doesn’t come close .

    The one place the Prius loses out big time by the way in its ” Efficient Design ” is weight . The thing is an over weight pig in comparison to a comparably sized 4 cylinder car . Aerodynamics can not compensate for Gross Weight .

  21. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Guys Relax,

    If the Koreans can do a 1.4 Direct Injection Turbo with plug in system that returned 201 MPG (KIA Ray) then everybody else can make products like that too.

    Everything is going to have to be a Hybrid. The government needs to do to car slike they did to food. Diet now costs the same as Regular, and in some cases less. Why cant Hybrids cost the same as Regular or less? Everybody has the tech now, its a crock, and a bunch of tired rhetoric that they cant get it done.

    We’re tired of the crap, make everything a Hybrid.

    You can say what you want, but the White House is responding to the Korean PROMISE of 50 MPG CAFE-not Threat. Read beyond the lines, the White House is responding to the Koreans and has been doing so for a while.

    1. When the Koreans started to put ESC in cars-it became law.

    2. When the Koreans stated that they could do 35 MPG CAFE by 2012-2015-the law forced everybody to do it by 2016.

    3. When the Koreans said we can do 50 MPG by 2025-the White House is now looking to respond with 60 MPG by 2025.

    Gas right now should be $4.50-$5 a gallon, and would be so if the Economy wasnt crap. When it gets better Gas will hit that mark again as “The New Normal.” Imagine an oil crisis. We do have a bunch of countries we regularly piss off. They can hold back the tap. Peak oil will also occur at about 2015, and that alone could add another dollar to the gas prices from the usual and customary $4.50-$5 Gas Prices that will already exist by then.

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    tj Martin Says:
    August 16th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    “I have serious doubts we’ll be hitting that 60 mpg target anytime soon . Especially when we all know the Prius in real world driving doesn’t even come close . Oh sure the computer tells you it does but try actually measuring your MPG in a Prius . Disappointment doesn’t come close .”

    My Prius DOES come close in real world driving, and yes, I have confirmed it by calculating after fill ups. Also, I have confirmed the accuracy of the odometer. The computer is slightly “optimistic,” saying 52+ when I’m actually getting 50-51, but that’s still good mileage. Also, I’m driving it normally, accelerating with normal traffic flow, and always going a little over the speed limit, like I do in whatever I drive.

  23. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    By the way, a trusted source in China claims Yaris Hyrbid will have 2.6l/100km consumption. That is over 90 MPG.

    The Koreans have small Hybrids too with top secret MPG.

    Coem on guys you’re Detroit. This is America.

    You mean to tell me, you lack a talented team of engineers that can take a scrap last gen Hybrid Malibu Electric Motor and do something with 1.2 and 1.4 Ecotecs maybe with Direct Injection or whatever, and drop that into an Aveo?

    Is that the weak ass argument you guys are going to state the Government?

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    tj Martin Says:
    August 16th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    “The one place the Prius loses out big time by the way in its ” Efficient Design ” is weight . The thing is an over weight pig in comparison to a comparably sized 4 cylinder car . Aerodynamics can not compensate for Gross Weight”

    A Prius is actually lighter than a VW Golf, probably the closest hatchback competitor with a conventional power train.

    Even if Prius were somewhat “overweight,” which it’s not, it doesn’t matter so much when, with regenerative braking, you are recovering the power used to get up to speed, rather than converting all that energy to heat with friction brakes.

  25. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Buys, dont you see Its a new Race. MPG will be the New HP. Those who are the best at it will become premium automakers, those who are ok at it will become just “everybody else”, and those who cant cut it will become: Austin, Izuzu, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, BMC, etc…

    You guys arent seeing the big picture but Hyundai does. In 10 years, Hyundai’s MPG to HP numbers will become as important as AMG is today. Eco Boost could become the new M Division, and Ecotec could become the New S.

    FoMoCo, Hyundai/KIA, and GM will become premium brands because of this, and with their recent prepensity to load up their cars with tech, and goodies. I have a feeling that by then, their cars will become a premium must have and not just for the MPG either.

  26. pedro fernandez Says:

    unless they start making cars lighter, we will have a real hard time reaching those lofty mpg numbers. But it seems that the more govt mandated equipment plus the stuff everyone expects new cars to have just keep adding weight to new models and those in planning stages.

  27. John V. Says:

    60 mpg CAFE responsibility lies with us the voters and with all of those who would lead us to vote against any politician who proposed higher gas taxes.
    The only reason the Europeans and Asians beat us to the punch on improving fuel economy was by their governments putting a minimum price on fuel with taxes. The higher tax on fuel created more demand for higher mileage vehicles and the automakers in those countries responded in kind.
    We just can’t figure that out, so we are not going to have the choice of buying a Boss Mustang or a heavy duty pickup truck in a few years, even if we could justify the higher fuel cost over the life of the vehicle. We may not be able to buy anything at all. We may end up with more products like the Volt that advertize false mpg due to electric supplementation of cruising range that obfuscates the actual performance.
    Most automotive “appliance buyers” will not care because they will buy the cheapest thing they can find that meets their needs. Enthusiasts, however, will have to buy old cars or heavily modify cars to an illegal state of performance.
    This is the fault of us stupid voters and the stupid choices our politicians make to keep our votes.
    A few years ago the Detroit Three publicly supported the idea of higher fuel taxes instead of CAFE rules, but stupidity prevailed again. This will get a lot worse before it gets better, if it ever gets better.

  28. Brett Cammack Says:

    t.j. martin,

    I’d like to see a community tell the Catholic Church that they don’t want them to build a community center and chapel in their town.

    Government cannot discriminate against religions. That means popular opinion doesn’t count. Same with gay marriage. You cannot discriminate. This is being decided, Constitutionally, right now. It’s not a matter of parsing the words of the complaint or the Constitution. We are a country of laws. Or we are not. Which is it? The Constitution is the Constitution, whether you agree with, or abhor the outcome of it.

  29. G.A.Branigan Says:

    Kia made the news: http://apnews.myway.com//article/20100816/D9HKOSA01.html

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Brett Cammack Says:
    August 16th, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    “I’d like to see a community tell the Catholic Church that they don’t want them to build a community center and chapel in their town.”

    It’s funny how opposition to Park51, AKA “the Ground Zero mosque” is roughly proportion to distance, even within the city. From an article at: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2010/08/16/100816taco_talk_hertzberg

    “According to a recent poll, Manhattanites are mostly for it, Staten Islanders mostly against. Community Board No. 1 endorsed it, twenty-nine to one. That’s the council that represents a corner of Manhattan that includes both Park51 and the 9/11 site.”

    It seems to me that people in Manhattan should have more to say about what is built a few blocks from the WTC site than people from Georgia and Alaska.

    Sorry about getting off-topic.

  31. pedro fernandez Says:

    the moral of the Kia story is that now you get shafted twice, once when you buy the car and than again when you lose control. H/S how does it feel now, after you badmouthed Toyota all this time for the stuck accelerator BS?

  32. pedro fernandez Says:

    Just read that China has now taken the #2 spot among the world’s leading economic powers, now they will be aiming for the U.S., they should thank the lazy, decadent West for their “service oriented” economy crap theory, nice going.

  33. XA351GT Says:

    I don’t think the issue is that they want to build a mosque it’s where they want to build it. There is a huge hole in the ground where thousands of innocent people lost their lives for no good reason other than radical MUSLIMS decided their lives weren’t worth living . There wouldn’t be a open space there if it weren’t for these bastards . So No a Muslim mosque doesn’t belong there. Anymore than a catholic church does in almost any Muslim country. Oh wait that’s right they won’t allow it to be built let alone any other form of worship other than Muslim . Punishable by death in most cases. So don’t feed us that propaganda BS Thank you very much

  34. mike g Says:

    “The “people” suck at making intelligent choices. They want to override the Constitution because they don’t like the idea of an Islamic Community center near the site of the former WTC. They want to override the Constitution because they don’t want gays to marry. They didn’t want interracial marriages. They didn’t want racially integrated schools. They’re Medicare recipients screaming “Keep the government’s hands off my healthcare!!””

    Way to hijack an auto site with your non-auto-related political views!

    Can’t wait to see what a mandate for low sulfur diesel fuel has you jabbering about.

  35. pedro fernandez Says:

    At this stage there are some that still defend the West’s decision to become a service based economy while allowing the Chinese to enriching themselves by taking over just about all manufacturing, just about decimating our middle class while theirs grow more and more.

  36. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Pedro, we have to grow from being just a service economy to being an advanced service economy. America used to be just a manufacturing country like China is today. Then unions, compulsory public education until 12th grade, and inventive minds came along and we became an Advanced Manufacturing Economy which became a superpower.

    1. A 12th grade education is not enough anymore. Kids and Adults MUST be obligated to get a trade, skill, or profession. College/Trade School should be free to the first Associate/Bachelors Degree, technical, or Professional Degree. Im talking Public and Corporate Schools subsidized by government here, and not private institutions.

    If the kid doesnt go, then they arent entitled to government benefits on most programs, and are only entitled to ultra low dollar amounts on other programs.

    Dont give me that crap that everybody isnt made for school. Are you Fu@@ing trying to tell me that Jimmy with a 87 IQ cant get a trade soddering pipe?

    2. Businesses need to stop whining as Obama gave business $190 Billion in tax breaks and incentives, while Bush gave them $170 Billion in tax breaks and incentives.

    These guys are just taking government Welfare and purposely not Hiring because “We are Scared of Obama.”

    These Welfare Queens (Business) were given money TO CREATE JOBS, so where’s the Jobs? Fu@@ing Welfare Deadbeats!!!!

    Large and Medium sized businesses who got welfare MUST NOT have ANY Access to the Second Stimulus package, as they have proved that they will not use government mony for its intended purpose-TO HIRE PEOPLE!!!

    3. Small businesses and non profit organizations need Welfare Badly, but it must be on the condition they raise staff levels to higher than before recession levels. Obama MUST spend $2 Trillion more at least, but ONLY to force business to create 10-20 Million new jobs.

    There will be another stimulus package more than before after the campaign cycle. Get used to the idea now, because if there’s not a Second Stim Package watch the Peasants go Wild. The situation is enough to create social unrest, but everybody is patient with Obama. If Obama is not allowed to have a second stimulus package by Republicans and Conservative Dems in the Congress trouble will ensue.

    4. America has to be stop being the world’s policeman, which would save us Trillions. I think that’s the easiest and best deficit cutter we can think of.

    Pedro, yeah that’s pretty unfortunate about KIA. It’s Hyundai’s first Drive by Wire small car. Im surprised kinks havent came up earlier.

  37. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    By the way, where’s the masterminds at GM, Ford, and Chrysler who can take a V8 make it a smaller displacement, Hybrid it, Turbo it, and Direct Inject the thing? America is V8 Country, so where’s the geniuses who can make those V8s get 40-50 MPG and 400, 500 600 HP?

    How is it that Hyundai can get close to 400 HP in a sub 5 Liter, when you guys need 5L+ to crack that? So much for “Inferior Koreans” right?

    Outside of the Sync, and new designs America still has some very antiquated engine product.

  38. Nick Stevens Says:

    ALL you guys should really be embarassed, NONE of you (none of your posts) indicates that you know that the promised 50 and 60 MPG from Hyundai and Honda are NOT COMPARABLE TO TODAY’s VWERY LOW-BALL EPA MPG RULES, which have been used only since 2008. The CAFE Standards are calculated according to MUCH MUCH more lenient EPA Rules before 1984!

    SO the 50 MPG REAL MPG the PRius 2 and 4 get would be rated at least 60 , of not 70 MPG, with the pre-84 EPA rules.

    FOr example, my 1983 5-sp mmanual Pontiac 2000 was rated 28/46 MPG. You could go 42 at 55 MPH and with no A/C and tires fully inflated, but that was it.

    My 1990 Accord 5-sp LX coupe was rated 24/31, under the NEXT EPA rules, BUT I easily got 32-37 MPG Highway!

    The Prius 2 I rented trwice in 2009 was under the THIRD, EVEN more stringent EPA rules, ZI got 50 around town and 62 and 69 MPG at 45 MPH on copuntry roads ands 47 MPG higfhway, so overall I easily beat EPA, and this is a HYBRID which always was overstated before the 2008 change.

    SO, in conclusion, 50 MPG CAFE means about 40ish EPA 2008 rules, and 60 means about 50. These are still lofty goals, but can be achieved even without Diesels, Hybrids or VOlts, just with Start-stop tech (much cheaper than hybrid) added to most models, and going to smaller but NOT less powerful engines (like the ECOBOOST or the BMW turbos)

    I still am outraged at EPA’s and the GOVs stupidity to declare WAR ON DIESELS. With diesels, we would easily attain those goals..

    And I

  39. Nick Stevens Says:

    I meant NHTSA, not HONDA, aims at 60 CAFE MPG.

  40. Nick Stevens Says:

    “# mike g Says:
    August 16th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Can’t wait to see what a mandate for low sulfur diesel fuel has you jabbering about.”


    I wish I knew what Mike G meant by the above. Probably that he really does not have CLUE ONE?

  41. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’d like to see Euro spec diesels in America, but I suspect it would be a problem if you filled LA with them. Whatever one may think about applying different standards in different states, I think doing so would be a good thing regarding diesels. Euro spec diesels would be ok in most of the US, though, if they were allowed.

  42. Nick Stevens Says:

    Even if the entire sinkiing state of CA can’t accept the Euro Diesel rules. it would still make sense to allow importing the Euro Diesels in the 49 remaining states.