Episode 534 – Honda Drops the Element, BYD Cancels EV for China, U.S. Hybrid Sales Weak
December 6th, 2010 at 11:40am
Runtime 9:24
Honda will stop selling the Element in the U.S. because of poor sales. Chinese automaker BYD, which is backed by billionaire investor Warren Buffett, has canceled plans to introduce an electric vehicle in China. Hybrid sales in the American market are down 7.6 percent this year compared to last year, even though there are more models to choose from. All that and more, plus a look at how Buick is trying to reach new customers.
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This is Autoline Daily for December 6, 2010. And now, the news.
U.S. & SOUTH KOREA FREE TRADE PACT
The United States and South Korea signed a free-trade agreement over the weekend. It allows U.S. car companies to sell up to 25,000 vehicles a year using U.S. safety standards rather than Korea’s. But don’t expect this to open up the Korean market very much. Foreign brands, including the Europeans and Japanese, represent a paltry 6 percent of the South Korean market. South Korea has a history of blocking imported cars. In the past the Korean IRS conducted tax audits on anyone who bought an import. Last year car dealers who sell imports had to send tax authorities the names, addresses and personal information of anyone who bought an import. On top of that, South Korea now classifies imports in the highest-risk category for insurance rates, making them expensive. We’ll have to learn the details of this free-trade agreement and see if it deals with these issues.
HONDA DROPS THE ELEMENT
Honda says it’s going to drop the Element in the American market because it hasn’t been selling very well. The boxy crossover just never caught on with the public. Last month, sales were under 1,000 units. But if they’re dropping the Element, then you have to wonder about the Ridgeline, because last month sales were under 1,000 as well. Even more, what about the Acura RL, which only sold 168 units last month, or even worse, the brand new Acura ZDX, which only sold 156 units? It’s a disaster. On top of that, sales of the company’s hybrids, the Insight and CR-Z, are doing poorly. People ask me all the time, what about the Crosstour? Well, it hasn’t exactly set the world on fire, but it’s not doing that bad, or at least not nearly as bad as all the other models I just mentioned.
BYD CANCELS EV FOR CHINA
Here’s a fascinating development. Chinese automaker BYD, which is backed by billionaire investor Warren Buffett, has canceled plans to introduce an electric vehicle in China, according to Gasgoo. After doing all its market research and speaking with dealers, the company decided the infrastructure for EVs in China isn’t ready. In the meantime the company is shifting its focus to plug-in hybrids and already has one for sale in China.
U.S. HYBRID SALES WEAK (subscription required)
And here’s another problem for the green movement. Hybrid sales are extremely weak in the American market. According to Ward’s, sales are down 7.6 percent this year compared to last year, even though there are more models to choose from. Sales for both the Civic and Camry hybrids fell 8,000 units compared to last year. On the luxury side things are even grimmer. Lexus has only sold 112 LS600h hybrids this year while the BMW 7 Series hybrid has only sold 80 units. One bright spot: the Ford Fusion hybrid saw a 40 percent gain this year but the numbers are still really small. The Prius still accounts for half of all hybrid sales. Yet, despite the weak sales, automakers plan to introduce more hybrids.
PORSCHE RETURNS TO DETROIT
Porsche pulled out of the Detroit Auto Show nearly four years ago, but the sports-car builder is making a comeback. According to Autoblog, the Stuttgart-based automaker is expected to make a BIG debut in Motown next month. A Porsche spokesman told Bloomberg they’d have something “spectacular” to show off but he did not go into detail about what it could be. Some are speculating the company could unveil a production version of the 918 Spyder concept it debuted at the Geneva Motor Show last March. Let’s hope so, because that would be waaaaaaay more exciting than the Cajun.
GM TESTS EN-V AT TECH CENTER
Remember the EN-V? It’s GM’s idea of what a pod-car should be. Designed for megacities like Beijing, London and New Delhi, it’s electrically driven and only seats two people. The company is serious about building this autonomous two-wheeled car and it’s been testing them thoroughly. In an Autoline Daily EXCLUSIVE, a source inside GM tells us the company’s been running them around its Tech Center in Warren, Michigan for more than a year now. This means the project is much more than just a proof of concept. The company wants to sell them! Of course we have no idea where or when the EN-V would go on sale, but we can bet on this. Don’t expect to see them at your local Chevy dealer anytime soon.
After the break we’ll take a look at how Buick is trying to reach new customers.
BUICK REGAL REMIX
Buick is in the middle of a product renaissance right now. After decades of neglect, GM is finally sending some resources its way. Its product portfolio is better than ever, but how is the company getting the word out to potential buyers about them? It’s trying something very interesting with the new Regal. Craig Cole has more.
The turnout at this Regal Remix was so good there was barely enough room to move around, let alone set up a camera and tripod. But what really matters to Buick is not how many people showed up but who showed up. GM is trying to broaden its customer base with these events by introducing the brand to young trendsetters.
And at least in Miami, the brand seems to be making an impact with younger buyers, a demographic that’s largely unaware of Buick.
Of course there’s no reason for Buick to leave its traditional customer base behind, either. The Miami-edition Regal Remix attracted at least one former buyer, who was very pleased with the company’s products.
Of the people that attended this Remix, the dealers seemed the most excited about it and the product renaissance that’s taking place at Buick.
And GM made a “splashy” introduction of the most shocking Buick in at least a generation, the high-performance Regal GS featuring a turbocharged four-cylinder engine and an available six-speed manual transmission.
This crowd of youthful South-Beach clubbers really seemed to like what they saw, which is exactly what Buick’s trying to do with these Regal Remix events.
Thanks for that report Craig.
And that brings us to the end of today’s report on the top news in the global automotive industry. Thanks for watching, we’ll see you tomorrow.
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Comments (47)
December 6th, 2010 at 11:55 am
I would consider owning a Honda Element, if they took 4 inches off of the roof and added 8 to the trunk. Nice idea with the rear seat and the flat floor. Needed to be redesigned three or more years ago. Overpriced too, methinks.
December 6th, 2010 at 11:58 am
I was waiting to see how long it would take Honda to dump the white “Elephant” I mean Element!
December 6th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
John,
Episodes back you (or someone else on your show) made an interesting point about the hybrids on the market – only the Prius (at the time – now the Insight) was not offered in any other engine type. The point made, then, was the premium was hard to stomach when you compared a gasoline only Fusion to the Hybrid Fusion (for example).
So, is it that, are hybrids boring, or is it simply gas prices?
December 6th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Element.
Fifth Element.
Milla Jovovich. Mmmm.
Sorry for the obscure Sci-Fi reference, but that is what popped into my brain housing unit every time I saw one of those on the street.
December 6th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
Now maybe Honda will return to the old-fashioned way they used to design and build cars when they earned their reputation; how about transforming that atrocious Acura styling?
December 6th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
You are not alone, Tony.
December 6th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
The other aspect of the Element that made it such a poor choice was the ride quality . Every bump and ripple in the road comes screaming thru the seats making for a less than comfortable or enjoyable ride . And its handling was just as pathetic , so its not like the ride quality was sacrificed for the sake of sport .
December 6th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
HtG ;
You going to regale us with anymore of your LF-A exploits ?
December 6th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
Send South Korea the bill for the army we have had in the country for over 50 years and pull them out and see willing they’ll be into having a real free trade agreement.
December 6th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
It is no surprise that hybrid sales are down, because gas prices are low, and stable. When gas gets expensive, hybrid sales will increase substantially. Well, some of them will, like the Prius, Fusion, and MKZ. Those are the ones that get good enough gas mileage to justify the complexity. It’s unlikely that the Insight will ever sell very well, because it isn’t enough cheaper than the much better Prius.
As far as the Element, I’d take it over a lot of small, tall wagons. Sure, it’s ugly, but so are a lot of others, and the Element is really handy for loading cargo with that rear hinged door.
December 6th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
@ Kit Gerhart ;
I don’t know about that . ( #10 ) Add in the Elements miserable MPG , that raspy engine etc. and there’s not much to recommend it . Not that the other Shoe Boxes out there are any better mind you .
December 6th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
Wasn’t the Ridgeline already scheduled for the axe after 2012?
December 6th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
I think the Element has always suffered from the Aztec factor. The first Gen Element had the Aztec-esq chunky/square flat black fender paint forever equating it with ugly. (BTW who at GM design thought square black fender treatments were a good design feature a la Avalanche & Aztec and the off square wheel-wells of the 1st gen Colorado/Canyon??) As with the Aztec, Honda went after the ‘youth’ market with functionality and quirkiness only to find out that it was empty nesters that were plunking down the cash for it which totally messed with their marketing. The Element never recovered from its failure to launch.
Free Trade with South Korea LMAO! Not in my lifetime, they’re worse than Japan!!
I think the ‘old guy’ @ the Regal Remix typifies a demographic that Buick is not talking about but loves anyway. Boomers don’t want to look or feel old & the new Buicks feed their nostalgia for the brand without making them feel old. If GM can get a younger demographic buying Buicks the ‘old guys’ will jump in with both feet.
December 6th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
tj, I’m not so sure everyone else is so interested, and I’ll need a few lines to share all the goodness with you. So, I’ll post later in the evening, maybe before my Jets start getting crushed in New England.
ps. Here’s a taste. I got to chat with Justin Bell about what it’s like to drive the LFA. I asked if it would be rewarding to drive if one were a semi-capable gentleman owner, to which he averred.
December 6th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Well, well, a brand new Buick Regal GS performance car. My questions are; Why is it front wheel drive,and why is the engine a 4 cylinder turbo? My Grand National was and still is a very fine performance car (V-6 rear drive) and it was built in 1987. Not only that, I hear there will be a new Chevy on the block that resembles the Pontiac G-8. NOW they’re talkin’
December 6th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Auto makers are making hybrids to increase their cafe numbers. I few of those sales helps boost the over all MPG. As for sales being down, there is no secret to this. with replacement batteries running $375-$400 per KWH, almost no one will buy are vehicle needing $3500-$9000 in replacement parts just to run! Gas prices need to hit $5.00/gal for a hybrid to make any sense. And if that happens we will have far worse issues besides what we drive.
December 6th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
Z., I saw the Regal GS at the NY Autoshow last spring. I think it was 4WD. Remember, this car was designed by Opel for the German market. When I sat in the civilian Regal, the firmness of the seats and the interior in general, all just shouted Teutonic. Ignore the Buick name.
December 6th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
If S. Korea wants to limit imports, then why not a penalty on them for their U.S. sales. The U.S. was foolish in the first place to allow Hyundai/Kia enter the U.S. if S. Korea is placing such restrictions on imports. And isn’t this an ally we would support if the communists of N. Korea keep provoking war? Is just me, or something wrong with this picture.
December 6th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
The Honda Element has two good features; utility and the available AWD system. Now that the CRV, also available in AWD, looks good there in no reason to get the Element unless you need a vehicle you can hose out. Honda could revive this with a complete update, other than the resent grille and headlight refresh. Alas this would cost too much.
I agree with pedro fernandez the Acura grille has to go. Hideous.
December 6th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Some of you fellers have a short memory, what happened to car sales when gas shut up to $4.30+ a gallon? They went into the crapper, hybrids and all. (except for a few of the real misers like Yaris, Fit. Et al.) Only segment NOT affected was the used market, people simply did not want to spend the money on anything new.
December 6th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Actually the Element reminded of a car that has been in an accident and the owner first replaces body panels and doors of different colors from the junkyard and then eventually paints the whole thing (most likely stays like that for the life of the car).
December 6th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
They held this Buick thing at night since they figured most old folks would be sleeping by that time. BS, I bet my last penny that most young people won”t ever consider a Buick, it is still considered an old person car and will be so for many years, just like many people still would not touch a Hyundai despite all the improvements.
December 6th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
@ Pedro – the Element reminds me of one of those Children’s Pull Toys that look like a ShoeBox with wheels on it . Or like the South End of a Northbound Mule . Uuu ggggul yeeeee!
@ HtG; I’ll look for your LF-A report come morning . Anthony Bourdain on the tube and all this evening you know . FYI the Regal IS the Opel with a few Buick badges and cues added on . I’m not reading much good about the currently available engine its coming with but the next one sounds like that may put the Buick into the winners circle . Assuming you Want a re-badged Opel .
December 6th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
I believe Honda does not need to drop the Element, but simply restyle it into a more fun to drive vehicle more along the lines of the Hyundai Tucson. When is the next total restyling of the CR-V secheduled?
December 6th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Mind boggling that people can’t seem figure out that Buicks are mostly re-badged Chevrolets with slightly upscale interiors. Really, are they worth that additional $15k? I can’t stand the grills on Buicks as they take me back to the day when my grandma had her Buick.
December 6th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Theres a concept redo of the Buick GN which is absolute killer! It takes the platform of the Caddie roadster/ Corvette and puts a black 2-dr. version of the GN on that chassis! Its sooo bad looking. It would be a ‘home-run’. Don’t do a Chrysler by leaving your Firepower on the doorstep. Bring this thing to fruition, you won’t regret it.
December 6th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
From personal experience, a long word describing
hybrids lack of popularity—-drivetrain indecisiveness.
December 6th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
Buicks haven’t always been “old people’s cars.” I doubt that the average buyer of a Grand National was 80 years old, and people of all ages who could afford them bought Buicks in the 50′s and 60′s.
Ironically, a couple “old people” I know don’t want a Buick because of the “old people’s car” image. One of them has a Scion tC, a car primarily marketed to 20-somethings.
December 6th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
I like the LaCrosse, but it would be nice to see a G8 based Grand National and Impala. That would complete both lineups. Impala needs to change, it’s cannibalizing Malibu sales. Does Buick still have the Lucern? A possible Buick line up: Grand National, Lacrosse, Regal and the Verona. Chevy Line up: Impala (G8), Malibu, Cruze and Spark.
I’m sure GM’s product planing Department will call me soon.
December 6th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
FYI Opel has been pretty successful at killing other GM brands.
December 6th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Buick brought it upon themselves by just building reliable but boring cars (much what Toyota has been doing lately).
December 6th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
Yeah, they did. I loved the old skylark and wildcats. I used to drive around in a 64 wildcat in high school.
Honda’s line up got pretty ugly. The Civic, Accord and Odyssey are the only nice products and they aren’t that good looking.
December 6th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Here you are tjM.
A few weeks ago I was invited by Lexus to attend a marketing day for the IS-F sedan. Lexus was trying to get performance minded people to come drive the car at the Monticello Motor Club. They wrote that the LF-A would also be there. So I could not resist.
Lexus was using the south loop at MMC to showcase the IS-F sedan, but the LF-A was also there. Justin Bell was there to drive ‘the lucky and the fast’ around in the LF-A. But while the car was sitting idle we were able to walk around it and talk to a product specialist. This guy was a young man, actually originally from Michigan, who was very eager to answer questions about the car. I’ll list the highlights.
-This is one beautiful car. It was painted in dark grey with brown interior leather. The design language of the car was a consistent arc shape, with very tight scouring for entry and exit vents. Since the whole car is made from Carbon fibre I guess they were able to get some really tight creases. Think about folding paper. The bends and curves were like razors, and really beautiful.
The car is very low and wide, but not too large. Your eye is carried along from front to back in a pleasing way because the consistent arcing shapes in contrast to the boxy shapes and strong straight lines. The interior is unostentatious but very high quality, as you would demand. Nothing flashy, except for the driver’s gauges. These were done on a computer screen that had a physical dial located in front of it. This dial showed you either speed or rpms, depending on setting, and was also a screen . The product guy repeated that the tach needle had to be made from a screen rather than a physical needle because the engine could rev up so quickly that the needle could not keep up with the engine.
Getting in and out of the car was very easy for me, and I’m not in great shape. Sitting was very comfortable, with great outward vision. Just exactly what I would want out of a performance car, without all the sickening luxury glam. I found the IS-F sedan to be just as neat; it’s interior design language is just like the LF-A. The snug seats of both models were very similar feeling. The paint was impeccable, and you had to just trust that the body was Carbon. Even when you open the doors and look in the frame, the Carbon and epoxy are crafted to an insane level of quality. I’ll probably remember the quality of workmanship on LF-A the most clearly. This car is not a mass made super exotic like a Ferrari. They will only make 500, and unless Toyota learns something about doing Carbon cars, they won’t be amortizing the costs of making and developing this thing. It’s like a prototype you can buy, but it is made to the highest values of Japanese quality demands. Really a stunning object.
-The product guy described the mechanicals of the LF-A. The weight balance is slightly heavier in the rear. The gas tank is somehow split, and the windshield washer tank is behind the passenger compartment; all to manage balance. Each rear wheel is individually braked by the computer to turn the car better. The double clutch transmission is set up to calculate just what gear you want as you decelerate so there is no shifting through the gears, 5-4-3-2. Rather, the shift could be 5-2. The two heat exit cutouts on the hood are interesting because under a part their plane(20%) there are individual chimneys which lead down to each engine bank’s exhaust manifold heat shield. It’s like there is a chimney letting heat from the exhausts escape straight up. The rear panel of the car is made mostly of functional vents for more radiators. If you look at the small cutouts at either side, you will see exits for some other hear source; I can’t remember what they do, but J Bell said he had thought incorrectly they were cosmetic.The engine is mounted aft of the front wheel centerline and the car has a transaxle joined to the lump with some kind of superstructure(I couldn’t get clear about this). When you lift the hood, you will see the engine and ancillary equipment. There are no luxury car style covers on all the naughty bits-a real sports car. The side mirrors are shaped so as to direct air into the inlets at the above the rear tires. The rear storage area is minimal. Your golf clubs will not fit-sorry Tiger.
- What Lexus did was to let us drive the IS-F around the course in follow the leader fashion. So real drivers, who we were told were mostly genuine race drivers, led out a string of about six sedans, showing us the breaking and turning points, and not driving too slow either. I found the IS-F to be super, and I don’t really like the Lexus brand at all. These cars were painted beautifully, with interiors that communicated a serious driver vibe. It didn’t feel like a showy, soft, foofoo place at all. The car drove very responsively without throttle lag as the computer figured out how much gas to give you. I could weight the front end and turn, getting the tail or nose to slide, give gas without the tail breaking away. I say this because Lexus was also showing off their stability computer, VDIM, if I recall. I didn’t hammer the car on the course, but at one point going uphill and turning, I lifted at about 50mph, and the car didn’t mind. It should have been a handful in reality. A couple of times a put down the gas pedal, which transformed the engine. It just erupted tj. The car would just launch, engine suddenly growling like a sasquatch. Anyone owning this thing will have two cars at once. Later we were treated to hot laps around the course, driven by one of the racing pilots on hand. This kind of thing doesn’t bother me, but he was going very fast. He even got one turn wrong and hit the curb with a WHACK on the rim at the apex. And the car itself was not upset at all. Sorry about all this IS-F stuff, but you see we could get a ride in the LF-A if we did well enough on an autocross course Lexus had set up. We got to drive the IS-F balls to the wall on a timed loop. Then we were put in a regular IS to see who would get into the LF-A. Guess what? I didn’t win. I brake too late and lose time. But for those ten or so So and Sos that did the best in their groups, Justin Bell took them on a Hellride.
-When LF-A moves, it is stunning. It looks like it’s being sucked onto the earth. It’s sharp lines look like a razor blade going through the air. It sounds thick steel being torn in half. The V10 sound is not like a 4,6,8, or 12 cylinder. Just such a violent, potent, confident sound. When the odd shapes of LF-A cut through the air at speed it is novel experience, since most cars are more smooth and round. I haven’t felt that way before. This is a car for someone like Larry Ellison. God it’s expensive.
Justin took the speedsters among us out for a few laps, and judging from the glowing discs coming down to the hairpin he was having some fun himself. He told me it was a manageable car. I can’t remember much more he said about LF-A, as we talked about other things mostly. Wow, Derek Bell’s son.
If Lexus is trying to broaden their brand, cars like LF-A and IS-F will do that. Probably all the people that went to the event will talk up their day and give the brand a different buzz. Lexus followed up by offering a 1G discount on a new Lexus. They said to make the best deal we could then produce their discount sheet. And here I am blabbing about their cars.
Enough, tj?
December 7th, 2010 at 12:20 am
Korea’s policy is obviously designed to block us out. How about a public campaign to block Korean Built cars (Including American Brands) from entering the U.S.?
At issue is not the Multinational companies that would sell their mother for a nickel, but the American workforce who is really under attack here.
December 7th, 2010 at 12:23 am
Pedro, well this country is a nation of scared children who don’t do the research for themselves.
The same people who are tricked into believing that on Dec 21, 2012 Earth will be annhiliated. 2012 is going to be a very bad year, but it will be a bad year caused by the people who are angry at the Old Guard for not moving fast enough-that includes cars.
2012 is the year when the New Guard (includes myself) starts to exercise our muscles.
If you’re a part of the current establishment and still refuse to change 2012 wont be the end of the world, but it will be the beginning of the end of YOUR world.
Many of you will try to maintain the old American order, but in reality you doing that will only seal your doom.
You think a majority support you. In fact a Majority are complacent, and will say anything just to be nice. In reality a Majority feel like their voices dont matter, so why vote. This is the same Majority who voted for the president, but did not shop up in the midterms. The New Majority in fact has been pretty civil towards the Old Majority (unlike how the Old Majority treated their predecessors), but too bad the Old Majority doesnt see it that way and tries to make life hell for the New Majority.
The Old Majority are scared of this change, because the new change we want is the Undiscovered Country, and to the point to where in 20 years this country will be almost unrecognizable compared to today.
These are certainly the combustible elements for an explosion- A structural Coup.
December 7th, 2010 at 12:35 am
“Korea’s policy is obviously designed to block us out. How about a public campaign to block Korean Built cars (Including American Brands) from entering the U.S.?
At issue is not the Multinational companies that would sell their mother for a nickel, but the American workforce who is really under attack here.”
So Mouhamad, I guess a Korean Company named Ford Motor Company tried to lobby US legislators to stop this trade deal, right?
You guys are getting a sweet deal, get over it.
BTW,
We Declare War Ford Motor Company-YOU STARTED IT!!! This is what happens when you try to be nice. They stab you in the back.
F-ck You,
Hyundai Smoke
President, CEO Korean Small Car Owners Association of America.
December 7th, 2010 at 5:00 am
H/S, you come on an automobile forum to declare a new world order……………….yikes:
la, la, la, I’m not listening
La, La, La, I’m not listening
LA, LA, LA, I’M NOT LISTENING
December 7th, 2010 at 6:42 am
On Honda: They have three huge sellers (Acord, Civic and even the CR-V lately) and a couple good sellers (Odyssey, Pilot) and then they have a whole lot of losers (the LATE and thank God for that, Element, the soon to be late Ridgeline, the CR-Z, and the whole ugly lot of Acuras, as well as the Crosstour-AzteC), on few of which they ever made a dime.
It is a pity Honda lost its way in the mid- 90s and the 2000s, Their cars are still very reliable and far better handling than the competition, and are still good used values.
Plus they usually have outstanding transmissions and good engines.
December 7th, 2010 at 6:44 am
Buicks are supposed to be reliable, but not in the case of the friends of mine that bought them. Admittely they stole them, buying Grand Avenues on Ebay for a couple grand, a 96 that cost over $30k new (or $40k in today’s $ at least!), and needed repairs all the time.
Many buicks then had good exteriors but god-awful dashboards and gauges.
December 7th, 2010 at 6:49 am
# pedro fernandez Says:
December 6th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
“Some of you fellers have a short memory, what happened to car sales when gas shut up to $4.30+ a gallon? They went into the crapper, hybrids and all. (except for a few of the real misers like Yaris, Fit. Et al.) ”
NOT Exactly. I remember the exact sasles data very vividly then.
In May 2008, the F-150, after 20 years (or 240 consecutive months) in the no 1 bestselling position, did not just drop to second place, but to FIFTH, after the Civic, Accoerd, Camry and corolla. The CIVIC then sold 53,000 copies, three times what it sells today. Hybrids did GREAT, especially the PRIUS, and deservedly so, since it is heads and shoulders above any other hybrid in MPG and reliability.
“Only segment NOT affected was the used market, people simply did not want to spend the money on anything new.”
Not true, only afte the FINANCIAL crisis hit, well after gas prices had declined from $4, did banks stop the risky car loans and hence the weaker buyers had to go used.
And the used car market was indeed affected even early in may 2008, many SUVs lost A TON of resale value, as one would logically expect.
You can see all these numbers in the Automitive news databank archives, many dealers subscribe to it.
December 7th, 2010 at 6:55 am
Kit Gerhart Says:
December 6th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
“It is no surprise that hybrid sales are down, because gas prices are low, and stable”
$3 used to be huge, but after the $4.50 shock in 2008, I guess drivers are used to it. But even at $3 you think twice visiting people 100 miles (round trip) away for dinner, if your vehicle gets 20 MPG or less! The gas alone will run you $15 or much higher!
” When gas gets expensive, hybrid sales will increase substantially. Well, some of them will, like the Prius, Fusion, and MKZ. ”
Yes, but only the Prius will be real sales to private owners (and a few to the rentals). Most Fusion Hybrids and esp. the now extinct Malibu Hybrids were bought by the meddlesome Obama Admin for its fleets. Thje Malibu Hybrid barely had any non-gov, non-rental buyers! But I have to say the MKZ-Fusion gets good real MPG (not Prius-level, but decent).
“It’s unlikely that the Insight will ever sell very well, because it isn’t enough cheaper than the much better Prius.”
Now it is a couple grand cheaper still, making it about $4-5k cheaper than the base prius, but it is also cheap inside, a turnoff. However, if you go to the EPA fuel econ site and check out the real Insight MPG for the current model (2010-1) by 35 drivers total, it is a GREAT 49+ MPG Average, almost as good as that of the Prius. This still may not revive sales, as Honda does not advertise these excellent numbers.
December 7th, 2010 at 8:09 am
“Not true, only afte the FINANCIAL crisis hit, well after gas prices had declined from $4, did banks stop the risky car loans and hence the weaker buyers had to go used.”
Let’s be fair, the banks shot themselves in the face, and investors refused to buy risky car loans from them. No perfect credit? No loan for you.
December 7th, 2010 at 8:38 am
Bob Says:
December 7th, 2010 at 6:55 am
“Thje Malibu Hybrid barely had any non-gov, non-rental buyers! But I have to say the MKZ-Fusion gets good real MPG (not Prius-level, but decent)”
The Malibu hybrid was a mistake. It got only about 1-2 better mpg than a regualar 4 cyl. Malibu, but, as I rmemeber, cost about $2K more. I mentioned the Fusion/MKZ along with the Prius as likely to sell well with more expensive gas, because it gets very good MPG “for what it is,” a conventional looking mid-size sedan.
“However, if you go to the EPA fuel econ site and check out the real Insight MPG for the current model (2010-1) by 35 drivers total, it is a GREAT 49+ MPG Average, almost as good as that of the Prius.”
I suspect there is some MPG “inflation” of the numbers people post for the Insight, or else these people are using near-hypermiling techniques. Consumer Reports got 6 mpg better “overall” mileage for the Prius than Insight in their tests. The people who post Prius mileage on the EPA site do better than I do with my Prius, but I “just drive it,” including going with the bulk of the traffic on the interstates. Still, I have averaged about 46 so far, as opposed to the 49.4 reported by owners on the EPA site.
It seems that Prius and Insight owners really like reporting their mileage for the site. There are 116 Prius drivers avaraged, but only one manual transmission MINI Cooper, mine.
December 7th, 2010 at 10:58 am
The Element was the KIA Soul of it’s day, but that day has now surely came and went.
They should have just kept the original design, and put more efficient powertrains in it. Im trying to get KIA to keep the basic design of the Soul forever; evolving it to look like the actual show concept in 5-15 years.
December 7th, 2010 at 11:01 am
The Element was waaaaayyy too big for this world. It should have been shrunken down to Fit size as a KIA Soul fighter with 1.5, 1.8 and 2.0 Honda powertrains.
December 7th, 2010 at 11:03 am
Starting MSRP $12-14K.
December 8th, 2010 at 5:42 am
Kit “I suspect there is some MPG “inflation” of the numbers people post for the Insight, or else these people are using near-hypermiling techniques.”
Why would you suspect this only for the new Insight and not for the Prius or even the Jetta Diesel?
Speaking of which, the Jetta Diesel Sportwagen got 49 MPG Highway real MPG (far better than the 42 Hwy EPA Mpg) in COnsumer Reports’ new comparison test vs the Fiesta, the Mazda 2 and one more I forget, and it also won the Comparo.