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Episode 547 – UAW Targets Transplants, Safety Bill Fails, 2012 Mercedes-Benz C-Class

December 23rd, 2010 at 12:08pm

Runtime 9:06

The UAW is beating the war drums again; this time it’s going after foreign transplants in the U.S.  Congress failed to pass legislation that would have overhauled auto-safety laws in the country.  Mercedes-Benz has given us an early Christmas present by showing off its redesigned 2012 C-Class.  All that and more, plus John shares his thoughts on driving Ford’s bodacious Focus RS500.

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This is Autoline Daily for December 23, 2010. And now, the news.

UAW TARGETS TRANSPLANTS (subscription required)
The UAW is beating the war drums again, at least when it comes to organizing the foreign transplants in the United States. The Wall Street Journal reports that UAW will launch a full-blown organizing effort starting next month. The president of the union, Bob King, sent letters to the CEOs of foreign automakers with plants in the U.S. asking them to allow the union to organize without interference from the companies. But here’s my Autoline Insight. The UAW is going to have a difficult time organizing workers in right-to-work states. Even if the union is voted in, those workers don’t necessarily have to join the union. That’s what right-to-work means, you don’t have to join a union if you don’t want to. A lot of line workers will be reluctant to pay union dues, especially if they automatically get any benefits the union negotiates with the company.

MG RETURNS TO ENGLAND
At first blush it looks like all is right with the world. Soon, MGs will once again be sold in England. Only this time the MGs will be mostly made in China, and they’ll be sold in GM’s dealer network, the Telegraph reports. SAIC now owns the classic British sports car brand, and of course, SAIC has a major joint-venture deal with GM in China. The two companies have a memorandum of understanding and it looks like it could happen sometime in the next year.

AUTO-SAFETY BILL FAILS TO PASS
Yesterday Congress adjourned for the year and it did so without passing a bill that would have overhauled auto-safety laws in the country. According to the Detroit News, the legislation was created in the aftermath of Toyota’s massive recall earlier in the year. The bill would have required the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to upgrade safety standards, given the agency more power to recall vehicles and would have increased fines the government could hand out to automakers for violating any safety requirements. However, in the end, the bill didn’t get enough support to pass this year but one of the bill’s proponents, Senator Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, says he will push for the bill once the new Congress convenes. But with Republican gains in both chambers, getting the legislation passed will be more difficult.

BEIJING TRIES TO CURB TRAFFIC
Earlier this month we reported that the city of Beijing was looking at ways to curb car pollution by handing out fines for driving in certain sections of the city and adding more public transportation. Now Bloomberg reports that the city will restrict the amount of new licenses it will allow to 240,000 a year and will award them through a lottery system. But this could be a huge problem, last week alone there were 30,000 new-vehicle registrations in Beijing and the city has over 4.7 million vehicles on its roads. The city is ranked as having the world’s worst traffic.

ASTON MARTIN/DAIMLER TIE-UP?
Here’s a very interesting bit of news we dug up on Reuters.  Via the Financial Times, the agency reports Aston martin is in talks with Daimler to DESIGN AND BUILD – yes, design and build – Maybachs.  Apparently Aston would take engine technology from Daimler in exchange for constructing the six-figure luxury cars.  If the two decide on a partnership, both companies could benefit from economies of scale, well . . . relative economies of scale since neither of them are going to pass Toyota on the sales chart.  Aston Martin was not available to comment on the proposed deal, but a Daimler spokesman said the two companies are in talks.  If this goes through, it would be ANOTHER tie-up for the German automaker.  It’s already partnered with Nissan to supply engines to Infiniti, it signed a deal with BYD to build electric vehicles and Renault is a key partner in the development of its next-generation smart car.

2012 MERCEDES-BENZ C-CLASS REVEALED (login required)
Mercedes has given us an early Christmas present in the form of its redesigned C-Class.  The 2012-edition of the brand’s best-selling model gets a design rework, including a new front end, modified headlamps and other very subtle tweaks.  It also benefits from a slightly restyled interior that makes it look a little more like the E-Class and the availability of some new driver-assistance systems – things like Lane Keeping Assist, Blind Spot Assist and Parktronic.  These are all pretty minor changes, but the company spent a little more time getting greasy under the hood.  The big news here is the availability of a four-cylinder engine in the U.S.  The C-250 is powered by a 1.8-liter turbocharged four-banger delivering 201 horsepower, 229 pound-feet of torque and an estimated 24 miles per gallon combined – that’s about 9.8 L/100 km.  Two V-6s are still available.  Overall, fuel economy has improved by as much as 15 percent thanks to direct fuel-injection and a redesigned seven-speed automatic transmission.  Look for the 2012 C-Class to formally debut at next month’s Detroit Auto Show.  Expect to see it at your local Mercedes-Benz dealer next summer.

Coming up next, we’ll take the Ford Focus RS 500 for a spin. Back right after this.

FORD FOCUS RS500
Earlier this year I found myself in southern France, right along the Cote d’Azur, just outside Nice. That’s where Ford was holding the international media launch for the C-Max and Grand C-Max. Turns out that they also had a Ford Focus RS 500 at the event. It wasn’t part of the official media launch, but if you knew to ask, a few of us were allowed to take it out. Here’s my impression of it, out on the road.

At first, the RS doesn’t seem to be all that special. The exhaust note sounds kind of subdued. The acceleration seems good, but not great. But then you open it up, and wow! Now you know what they mean by Rallye Sport.

This car instantly gives you a high degree of confidence. The tires stick. The brakes stop. The seats keep you locked in place.

Though it doesn’t come across in the video, the exhaust note makes a great pop when you bang off a shift or drop off the gas. Just like a real rally car.

This car makes you want to go out and hunt down unsuspecting prey. And pity the fool who doesn’t know what a Focus RS is. They won’t know what hit them.

I really didn’t want to bring the car back to Ford. I wanted to just keep on going. I would love to spend more time with this car, and I can only hope that the Focus ST that Ford will bring to the ‘States is anywhere close to being like the RS

The 500 in Focus RS500 means they only made 500 of them. It has a turbocharged, 2.5-liter five-cylinder gasoline engine that produces 345 horsepower. It’s priced at £27,000, which at today’s exchange rate translates into $41,600. But even if you have the money, that doesn’t mean you can buy a new one. This car is completely sold out.

Don’t forget to join us tonight on Autoline After Hours. We’ll be handing out presents and lumps of coal for the best and the worst of automotive happenings for 2010. Join me, Peter De Lorenzo and David Welch from Bloomberg tonight starting at 7:00 p.m. Eastern on Autoline After Hours.

And a programming note here. Autoline will shut down for the holidays starting tomorrow. We’ll be off all of next week, but we’ll be back here on January 3rd with all the news and coverage you expect us to bring to you. So, have a great holiday season, a happy new year and we will see you in 2011.

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93 Comments to “Episode 547 – UAW Targets Transplants, Safety Bill Fails, 2012 Mercedes-Benz C-Class”

  1. Tony Gray Says:

    Once again my annual Autoline Cold Turkey begins. Looks like it’s back to endless Katy Perry Music Videos until January 3rd!

    Happy Holidays Everyone!

  2. shan Says:

    Yep, we will get a Ford Focus ST, but with a low powered engine and lots of bland looks and a hefty price tag. I will opt for the Subaru WRX STI.

  3. Dan Clemons Says:

    Happy Holidays to you and your Autoline Daily crew!! See you in January!!

  4. Zieke Says:

    Maybe the UAW and auto manf. should partner together in the right to work states. The UAW would furnish the names of non-members to the maker, and they would cut the non-member’s wages accordingly. After all, why should a non union member profit from wages negotiated by the representative union? Who would those folks file a grievance with? Is that a win-win situation?

  5. pedro fernandez Says:

    Yes UAW, pester the transplants enough and they’ll just move down Mexico way, where your filthy claws cannot reach and then we will just add more unemployed Americans to the ranks.

  6. Dale Leonard Lakewood,Ohio Says:

    Same Here,Tony,Looks like I’ll be watching old issues of Autoline Daily to keep from going into withdrawl symptoms. Old is better then none at all.
    Hey John,Happy Holidays to You and Yours….Ike,Too!!!!!

  7. tj Martin Says:

    Aston Martin and Daimler to partner on the Maybach . A marriage made in Hell if there ever was one . What will they call it ? The Astonbach ? The Maymartin ? How about just over priced JunkAsstonbach ?

    The Unions . Oh yes UAW . Lets make damn sure all manufacturing jobs leave US soil . Go ahead . Harass all those Transplants . See how many working class folks still have jobs after you do . Still haven’t figured out you’re no longer relevant , needed or for the most part , wanted .

  8. pedro fernandez Says:

    It’s gonna look really funny to see a Maybach at an Aston Martin showroom alongside that ugly little Toyota clone they sell.

  9. tj Martin Says:

    An even better name for the Aston Martin/Maybach creation .

    the ; MyAssIsBach

    Which , as Pedro said , they can sell right next to the Toyota iQ rebadged Cygnet . Hey. considering the size of the MyAssIsBach you could probably take your Cygnet along for the ride in the trunk .

  10. G.A.Branigan Says:

    My outlook on the uaw is no secret,and the latest move from king just blows me away.Have the auto workers at the transplant companies asked to be represented by the uaw?If not,why in hell would king try to stir things up? Maybe those workers don’t make as much per hour (including bennies) as the uaw,but they don’t have to pay the uaw either.

    AND as was already pointed out,if the uaw gets too pushy,maybe even harassing the workers as they go in and out,thus forcing that company to say the hell with this crap,let’s go to mexico,or wherever.Either way,it ain’t good.

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The only thing that would make much sense regarding the Maybach is to discontinue it. The last I heard, the Maybach was to Rolls-Royce what VW Phaeton is to S-Class. What is the point?

  12. pedro fernandez Says:

    As nice and desirable as the Focus RS may be, young people don’t have that kind of money to spend on a pocket rocket, they will keep on building their own tuners or have them done at tuner shops for a lot less money, plus make them more personal.

  13. jesse m. Says:

    Somebody tell the UAW to mind their business and lay down and die already.They already ruined GM and Chrysler and now they want to ruin manufacturers that have no need for them or their antics.Please go away.

  14. Phoenix Mark Says:

    I agree with the UAW comments, go away. Can a UAW represented plant vote to kick out the union?

  15. tj Martin Says:

    Its interesting when you read the UK automotive press’s take on the Ford Focus RS500 the terms ;

    Bone Jarring ride

    Unfathomable Torque Steer

    etc. come up over and over again . The general consensus being that the RS500 is built for Teenage Barnstormers who can’t afford it .

    And thats on UK/EU roads . Imagine what it’d be like on our roads .

  16. W L Simpson Says:

    Unions have long outlive their usefullness, now they are a detriment to society. I left Eastern air lines just before IAM ran it into the ground w/their incessant less work for more money. Did the same thing at about the same time w/PanAm & National. Shop stewards spent their days stirring up false greviances. Look up what they did at the Nummi plant.

  17. tj Martin Says:

    The only thing harder than getting a Union in where they’re not wanted ( which is a good thing ) Is getting the Union out of a plant they’re entrenched in .

    Even if say only ten active members out of 100 exist in the plant , they’ve still got too many legal recourses to remain in place .

    Our labor laws & regulations are balanced in the Unions favor .

    Honestly you’d have better luck getting Palin to become a Liberal than booting the Unions out of any plant they’re now in .

  18. Chuck Grenci Says:

    UAW working for their workers, transplants? No, they are working for the UAW machine (meaning union leaders and the power of size and the union officers).

    Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to all our forum members, the Show Staff and all your contibutors and a special wish for John McElroy.

  19. tj Martin Says:

    Some brilliant University Economist should do a study/paper on ;

    The Number of Benefits Gained by the Manufacturing Unions in the US ; Versus the Number of Jobs Lost by the Unions excessive pay and benefits demands . Over the last 30 years .

    Its only a guess on my part , but I’d venture to say the Unions would come out looking very very Bad .

  20. tj Martin Says:

    And a Happy Holidays to all here from me as well . Here’s hoping for a better 2011 .

  21. Alex Kovnat Says:

    Merry Christmas John, and may 2011 be a great year for us all!

  22. ckernzie Says:

    Merry Christmas to John & everybody at Autoline, thanks for another great year!!

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I frequently complain about AWD being mandatory on cars sold in America, like the E-Class wagon and all Subarus, but a car like the Focus RS NEEDS AWD, like one certain Subaru, the WRX STi.

  24. cwolf Says:

    @Kit and Bob: Thanks for shedding some light on typical European cars. I haven’t visited all the sights here at home,but plan on seeing Itay in the near future.I’m envious.
    John,I’m not sure if all the time devoted to share the Focus RS with us was worth the effort since all the cars or sold before the tires hit the pavement. It’s like dangling an ice-cream cone in front of a lil’kid and saying you can’t have one!
    UAW info: Workers can vote out a union- but I’m not sure if it has ever happened.
    I doubt the union would harass workers they hope to seek, certainly not to the extent of what companys have done in the past. I also think there is a procedure that has to be followed and has a time window. Also doubt the process of trying to organize a union would force any company to move to Mexico,especially if the workers feel satisfied.
    My take: If the workers don’t want a union it won’t be voted in—-simple! I’ll even agree to some extent that the UAW added to the industries problems,but think the U.S. automakers, themselves, caused most of their woes. In the UAW favor, they did create the middle class and set the tone for fair treatement across the spectrum. Enough said without any intent of ticking off any bashers.

  25. XA351GT Says:

    The UAW needs to piss off already. They have screwed up the Big 3 with their greed now want to screw the few people that have jobs in other auto plants. Don’t new workers in UAW plants now make about what those in the transplants do? So why would they vote them in to get the same money they already make or if voted in and they make ridiculous demands on the manuf. they just shut it down and move it somewhere with cheaper labor.My suggestion to those in transplant factories is be glad you have a job and if you want the unemployment line go ahead and vote in the UAW ,because that’s all they’ll ever be able to do for you.

  26. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Merc didnt want to get trumped by Hyundai, which is fine. Too bad that it doesnt get 35 MPG like a Hyundai.

    Stop using traditional Granny Powertrains.

    Cars should either be Hot or Eco. We don’t have the resources anymore to continue to produce Granny Metamucil cars with sub 300 HP V6s and Sub 120 HP 4 bangers for the masses.

    The masses are just going to have to get over it.

    IF YOU CANT MAKE A V6 WITH 300 OR MORE HP

    DONT FU–ING BUILD IT!!!!

  27. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    If you cant make a 4 Banger get 120 HP

    DONT FU–ING BUILD IT!!!!

    FIAT/Chrysler, Hyundai/KIA both now have the capability of building 100+ HP 3 Cyls.

    Too bad the established brands that everybody loves so much cant do the same.

    Who cares about these Granny brands anyway.

  28. Andrew Charles Says:

    GM has already come out and said that they will not be selling MGs through the Vauxhall dealer network, but they are helping SAIC develop their own dealer network in the UK, evaluating locations and dealers etc. Unlike most Chinese automakers SAIC has the deep pockets and keen focus to develop decent cars. Their third all-new car (after the D-segment 550/MG6 and C-segment 350) is the MG3, and while not class-leading it’s a far more competitive B-segment hatch than the new Vitz (Yaris) just unveiled by Toyota.

  29. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Yeah, but the MG3 may look kind of nicem it is still powered with questionable Chinese tech. At least the Toyota dull as it may be will last.

    The Last MG subcompact (MG-ZR) made under the New MG well…. was ok. If you want MG but dont want to risk questionable reliability, get a Hyundai.

    In fact, I consider them as a “sleeper” brand.

    I see Hyundai in these guys, but unlike Hyundai they have mistakenly focused on design and fitment before QUALITY FIRST!!!

    GM should use them as an undercover Hyundai fighter, but that’s my 2 cents.

  30. KEVIN Says:

    HAPPY HOLIDAYS JOHN AND THE AUTOLINE TEAM SEE YOU IN 2011 GOOD JOB ON REPORTING IN 2010 . SINCE THIS IS THE LAST AUTOLINE DAILY OF THE YEAR I WOULD LIKE TO SAY GOODBYE AND REST IN PEACE TO THE WE BUILD EXCITEMENT DIVISON (PONTAIC). IT”S A SHAME THAT GM KILLED THIS STYLING CATCHING AND PROFOREMANCE BRAND . TOO BAD THEY NEVER MADE A ANOTHER FIREBIRD OR TRANS AM . WE WILL MISS YOU PONTAIC AS YOU JOIN OLDSMOIBLE, SATURN, HUMMER, WITCH THEY WERE COOL FOR A LITTLE WHILE AND MERCURY WHICH I WISH THEY MADE A NEW COUGER BEFORE THE BRAND GOT THEY AXE EARLY THIS YEAR TO THAT BIG PARKING GARAGE IN THE SKY . MAY ALL THESE AMERICAN BRANDS BESIDES OLDSMOIBLE REST IN PEACE IN 2010 . HAPPY NEW YEAR AND GOODBYE PONTAIC

  31. Bob Says:

    Happy Holidays you characters, and best wishes for 2011

    thanks and (virtual) presents to John, Peter and the other regulars that make this site and forum interesting. Keep it up!

    A big lump of coal to the Nissaan LEAF (as they said in AAH last night, it could use it for fuel too!) and to that CHristie fanatic that managed to insult us as “luddites” and all kinds of other names (for lack of logical arguments) just because we are factually correct and believe that pure EVs especially are not ready for prime time and you can save 1000s of times more imported oil by using fuel efficient, not even hybrid or plug-in hybrid, gas and esp. CLEAN DIESEL engines. It is fortunate that she made just one (miserably failed) appearance in the last several hundred days here.

    I am optimistic about autos in 2011, sales should significantly improve as many new and good models keep arriving.

    It should be interesting to see the specs of some of them at the Detroit show

  32. M Campbell Says:

    Nicky Bobby, let it go already.

    Thank you to all the AD contributors this year: the McElroy’s, Mr. AutoExtremist, Jim Ha2953ll, the aforementioned Ms. Schweinsburg, the Detroit-based journalists that hosted throughout the year but whose names escape me at the moment (sorry guys), and also to the behind the scenes crew we never see. Happy Holidays to you all.

  33. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Happy holidays everyone, and thanks for the great shows, John.

    I’m guessing that Honda will benefit from the sale of Leaves and other pure EV’s. People will buy Honda generators to carry in their cars to provide a “limp home” charge while they wait on the side of the road. If you get big gas generator, maybe these EV’s could operate as a series hybrid.

  34. pedro fernandez Says:

    To John, staff and all participants in the Autoline blogs, happy holidays and the best for next year, may I also add that it is a pleasure to see and hear a great professional journalist like John, who has such passion for his work, do his job daily. Lucky are those who can earn a living doing what they love to do, and this is very apparent in the way John handles his tasks on a daily basis.

  35. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Merry Christmas John, Guys!!!

    Even you Toe Jam Martin!!! :D

  36. pedro fernandez Says:

    Back to reality, so much for all cars now being equally reliable and well made, the Dodge Journey my sister bought back in April (against my advise) has only 6,500 miles and guess what? New front brakes and rotors already worn out. and the dealer is not willing to do it for free. Now we have to take it up with Chrysler directly. One more reason I don’t like or trust American car makers or their products. My POS Corolla had the first brake job at 50k miles and at 310k miles I still original factory rotors. Please don’t tell me all cars are now the same quality IT IS NOT TRUE!!

  37. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    310K miles isnt all that much anymore, but I wouldnt want to drive a car that stale everyday after a certain length of time.

    I could see 310K in 5-10 years. My 3 year old Accent already has 110K. To me it’s better to work a car for all its worth right now. To me more than 5-7 years is too much in the same everyday car. After that, a car should be given to a kid as a tuner, or you mod that thing yourself and keep it in the garage only as an emergency car or playtime car. Im talking twin turbos, etc…

    The Public must really be that ignorant about Hyundai becuase Hyundais DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT NEED THAT 100K WARRANTY ANYMORE.

    The 100K mile idea is becoming an outdated selling point for Hyundai. Who cares if it has a 100K warranty anymore? You’re not going to need it anyway.

    In that sense Hyundai is playing it’s bad reputation. They knowingly make cars that need 200K+ warranties, and sell you on a 100K warranty to make it seem like you’re getting an extra deal.

    By doing that, Hyundai is in a way hurting themselves by drawing out the idea that a buyer would need just a 100K warranty in the first place. I think it makes some buyers not trust the cars in the first place. It makes some buyers say, “What kind of POS is this if you can only guarantee 100K in a world of 300K cars.”

    Hyundai needs to go to 200K+.

  38. pedro fernandez Says:

    Hey Smoke, the point that I was making in #36 was not that my car has 310k mi or how many miles can a Hyundai get without problems, It was about an almost new Journey and how the brakes are gone with 6k miles under normal driving conditions, so all this talk about how great Chrysler cars are now overnight, blah blah is just a bunch of horse manure. Dont turn every entry into an ad for Hyundai, it is getting tiresome. If you need to skimp, don’t skimp on brakes. It was built off a Caliber platform and I guess they kept the same brakes for a much heavier vehicle, bean counting at its worst.

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Pedro,

    I have a Chrysler product with 70K miles on the original brakes. It’s an ’89, though.
    Brake life is VERY driver dependent. I suspect Jouney brakes must be relatively short lived, though. Your sister can’be THAT hard on brakes.

  40. pedro fernandez Says:

    Kit, I have read online about a bunch of owners having problems with Journey brakes, some of them claim having been replaced 3 times with 10k miles only. It seems to be inferior rotors and pads supplied to dealers by Chrysler, c’mon can’t you save money on something less vital?

  41. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Well we have Chrysler Products too. The Brakes on the Car based stuff=junk. The Truck Product (Durango)= fine.

    The only problem in the Truck Product was the water pump at 80K. I still want a Jeep/Dodge Diesel.

    The Cars are rubbish, and that would be fine if they were a few grand cheaper. Dodge should have the cheapest lineup in America out of any brand in terms of price=their quality dictates this.

    America needs a brand that can pump out $9500 Subcompacts. The Avenger Midsized Sedan should be $15K-not $20K. The 200 VS Sonata? I still give it to Sonata. It does have more features than 200 even in the lowest trims. The Sonata has a better predicted reliability record by a mile. The Sonata smokes this car in terms of MPG. Im still think FIAT could make that 200 a few bucks cheaper than a Sonata, they are closely priced, but I think they can drop that price down a notch.

    That Avenger is definately not and NEVER will be worth more than our $18K superior KIA Optima. Like I said, that’s a $15K product. It sure looks and feels like one.

  42. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Lexus is the New Cadillac. It even has Cadillac’s old demographics before they changed to the “New Cadillac” -old ladies from Ft Lauderdale.

    Toyota is their Chevy. There was a time when Chevys were among the most reliable cars on Earth too. They got cocky and blew it, like Toyota is doing now.

    Toyota Sudden Acceleration=Chevy’s Corvair Scandal

    Then in 10 years or so Toyota will move 90% of their plants to China like Chevy moved their plants to Mexico. The Chinese will be happy to produce Mexican-American quality Japanese cars as long as they get money.

    If the Americans capitalize on this they will rake on the cash. If not somebody else will come in replace Japan.

    The Koreans cant because they have only 2 real brands. The Chinese could replace Japan and America because of their multitude hodge podge of brands.

    Liek Korean Electronics, the Korean cars in 10-15 years or so will become higher end goods, comanding prices that will make today’s Korean cars seem dirt and air cheap. The Koreans will start being treated like VWAG Germans, and probably it will happen sooner that that since VW is now out Whoring themselves and will destroy 20 years of hard work in 5.

  43. pedro fernandez Says:

    Smoke the thing with the Dodge issue is that they know that there is a problem with the brakes but yet, they are still using the same crappy parts to replace the oem parts, why not bite the bullet and put in better parts and eliminate the problem, or how about a quiet recall and replace ALL defective parts and perhaps you will have some return customers. The way they’re handling it now, they just have a lot of pissed off customers who will most likely not buy one of your cars again.

  44. pedro fernandez Says:

    After talking to dealer gen manager they decided to fix and bill Chrysler for the repairs but he was tight lipped about the problem. Like they think we’re imbeciles and don’t do online research. Thank goodness for the internet!!

  45. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ Pedro: LMFAO……all the dealers seem to ignore all the info available on the internet.Then of course are all the different forums specifically dedicated to specific brands and models.NOTHING can stay hidden for more then a couple of days….if that.Yet when we tell a service manager about a specific recurring problem with a specific brand/model..they act like you are speaking in tongues.The single worst thing we HAVE to do when buying any new vehicle is…..dealing with the dealers/salesman.Totally sux bigtime and definitely nothing to look forward too.

  46. pedro fernandez Says:

    GA during the time we spent at the Dodge dealer with this BS, I was remembering you and your Jeep and all the problems you’ve had, was your dealer at least helpful with your issues?

  47. XA351GT Says:

    Well I heard on the news today that Venezuela’s Chavez predicts $5.00 @gal gas by 2012 . Well let’s see if the government sits on it’s ass and let’s the oil companies screw the public and the economy again. Or maybe the current administration will let it happen to force the public to buy the electric/hybrid cars they’re ramming down our throats. If they have a short memory as to why the economy crapped the bed they will let us get slammed without the common courtesy of a reach around.

  48. Bob Says:

    It would be great if the government actually DID sit on its ass and do NOTHING for once, and scrap the outrageous $7,500 apiece subsidies to idiotic EVs, for example.

    And do give me a break with the big bad Oil Companies again. If they did anything illegal, take them to court.

    OPEC controls oil production to maximize ITS profits, not our convenience. WHat they do is also legal internationally, even tho it would be illegal (cartel) if it was an internal US affair.

    What WE can do to ocunter OPEC’s power, is CONSERVE, buy more fuel efficient vehicles, Diesels, Hybrids, even a lplug-in like the VOlt if you think it makes sense for your driving needs (most likely it does not).

    Fortunately there are a TON of AWESOME new cars in the market, rated 40 MPG EPA under its very strict 2008 rules (which means you will get much more than that on the highway), and vewry affordable too.

    The competition will be FIERCE. The new Sonata dominated the field this year, when the top two sellers in its segment are due for a redesign, and in fact the Camry will be all new AND AWESOME according to rumors, for 2011. The Civic will also be at long last new, and it went back to the drawing board to lose wt and gain MPG, so it will be another formidable competitor.

  49. Bob Says:

    “$5.00 @gal gas by 2012 . Well let’s see if the government sits on it’s ass and let’s the oil companies screw the public and the economy again”

    Actually, I don’t know if Chavez said that, I read the exact same prediction for 2012 was made by an ex Big Oil CEO (Hoffmeister). Analysts said it may exceed $5 but not likely in 2012, but later in the decade.

    Even OPEC does not want $5 gas, because they worry about alternative fuels that become much more competitive as gas prices go up, esp. unconventional oil which is plentiful in the US and Canada (Canada already produces huge amounts of it from its oil sands).

    The Saudis in particular have always been moderate, and against high oil prices. Currently they prefer $70 oil, while other pec members are OK with $100.

    2008′s $147 oil (which came and went fast!) was largely due to speculators, that’s why the market returned to normalcy fast.

  50. XA351GT Says:

    It’s easy to say go buy a new more fuel thrifty car. What about those people that can’t afford to take on more debt? I do believe what the oil companies do is illegal. When they all decide to raise the price it’s called collusion. They are conspiring to raise the price to make ridiculous profits . I’m not against them making money , it’s what every business achieves to do ,but when they all get together and jack it out of sight then I see a problem. I remember back when this all hit the fan before that someone posted where the major oil companies get their crude from. There was a list of companies that bought no oil from the mid east ,but they raised their prices as much as those that did get it from there. Maybe the government should take their tax breaks away if they jump up the price too much. I know I only drive as much as I have to. Very few trips for pleasure anymore . I have a pretty decent car for economy and sure as hell can’t afford the cost of fuel a $5 @ gal.

  51. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    It’s suspicious that our Government would need a Columbian base.

    Im privy to details I wont divulge, but just say the masters want Chavez=Terminated. That’s the real reason why there’s a Columbian base.

    Expect anti-Venezuelan saber rattling from this admin when gas hits that $4 a gallon range.

    So much for the President being a Socialist, as he plans on attacking someone who is an ACTUAL REAL SOCIALIST. Id rather Chavez be pres in the US.

    At least he creates JOBS!!!

    They will tell all kinds of lies about Venezuela too to drum up support for their next Oil War. The police rape women, and Conservatives are: hung beaten and imprisoned, etc…

    Let’s hope the masses arent dumb enough to follow it.

    The Corporate masters want a right wing govt in that country. They tried Civil wars and coups but that didnt work.

    The Corporate masters are willing to start a Civil war or Second Revolution in America itself to get a Right wing govt in too. It’s too bad they dont realize that the Obama administration is RIGHT WING COMPARED TO WHAT MANY OF US YOUNG PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR HIM WANTED!!!

    Yeah, its a generational change. The Baby Boomers have now grown up to become THEIR: Stuffy Asshole, overly conservative for the times PARENTS. In many cases generation U-the Depression Generation are now more Liberal minded than their Children-the Baby Boomers technically called-Gen W.

    Yes, you guys have grown up to become what you despised as youth.

    If the Conservatives get too much more out of line us young people are going to have to do something about it, and the establishement wont like that.

    Us Young people when pushed are extremely Violent, but hey that’s what happens after you anesethized 2 Generations of people to violence in TV, Music, and Video games.

    Lots of Progressive young people are hurting just as bad as those Conservative Baby Boomers who got kicked on their asses and are now on the unemployment line=asking for trouble.

  52. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Think about it. The people who are affected by the economy the most are: Baby Boomers, Millennials, Minorities, and Men.

    The groups in Society who are most likely to start civil unrest. Baby Boomers are born resisters, Millenials have such an incompatible mindset to what America right now is about that they will be forced to resist at a critical point (which I believe 2011-2012 when the youngest Gen Ys possible turn 18), Minorities who always resist, and Disenfranchised Unemployed Men who are natural hunters and fighters.

    They will also attempt to bring in marginal groups such as Gen X (35-50), and Gen Z (Middle and High school kids), such as they have done in Europe and various other parts of the world the past 2 years.

  53. Bob Says:

    “# XA351GT Says:
    December 29th, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    It’s easy to say go buy a new more fuel thrifty car. What about those people that can’t afford to take on more debt?”

    1. I did not say you HAVE to buy a higher MPG car, I only said that it is our main option to retaliate against OPEC (NOT the Big bad oil Cos!!) who has the reserves AND chooses to produce less to keep oilprices at their current level.

    2. You do NOT have to buy a NEW higher MPG car. If you replace your fuel wasting SUV of X years and Y miles with a 40 MPG Civic of same age and miles, it will cost you LESS than your SUV’s current value and there is no need for any debt.

    ” I do believe what the oil companies do is illegal. When they all decide to raise the price it’s called collusion. They are conspiring to raise the price to make ridiculous profits . ”

    There is a WHOLE LOTOf ZERO PROOF Misinformation in this.

    Beliefs are for RELIGIOUS discussions. We are talking FACTS and Economics here.

    3. There had been 36 separate investigations about price gouging by the oil Majors, and NONEE proved that there was any. By now I bet there have been more than 40 or even 50, and STILL NO PROOF of the false charges.

    4. It is ABSOLUTELY FALSE that big oil makes too big profits! As a % of their business, their profits are VERY LOW, unlike other companies like PHARMACEUTICALS that peddle drugs that are life and death for patients, and make 18% profits!!! THAT is Far more OBSCENE and IMMORAL than ANYTHING Big Oil has ever done.

    5. We are fixated on ONLY one product, gas, and gas prices. WHY?????? Because they are so VISIBLE, in huge signposts everywhere. ARE $3 gas prices really high? NO! WHen I started driving in the US in 79, gas was $1.30 in 1979 dollars. $3 in 2010 devalued dollars is FAR LESS EXPENSIVE than that $1.30 in COMPARABLE terms.

    6. Back in 1980, my officemate got a Buick for $5k. Today it is at least $25k, if not more. FIVE times up. GAS however only went up 2.5 times, from 1.30 to $3. BIG HAIRY DEAL! Everything else has gone up FAR MORE, so why keep whining about GAS PRICES????

    6. Big oil does NOT own the opil reserves, only a tiny fraction. Most of the reserves are owned by the OPEC nations, who try to sell them to maximize THEIR interests, NOT OURS. Our only response possible, beyond driving higher MPG cars, is to DRIVE LESS.

    7. CHINA is the new 800 lbs gorilla in the living room. No matter WHAT we do and OPEC does, huge growth in the CHinese demand for oil unavoidably puts pressure on gas prices, making them much higher than whatever they would be otherwise.

    “Maybe the government should take their tax breaks away if they jump up the price too much.”

    The oil tax breaks were designed to help the SMALL guys, the independent oil producers, not “big Oil”, who would gladly give them up, they are so insignificant for them.

    ” I know I only drive as much as I have to. Very few trips for pleasure anymore .”

    Even if you had a guzzler, I can assure you that a vacation trip for a family of four in a Suburban, the gas cost is the least of the expenses. Even at 15 MPG highway, it is 60 MPG PER PERSON, and would be 120 MPG if you filled it with 8 passsengers! I can assure you that Dining and Hotels would be far more expensive. Or maintaining a summer home if you have one

    “I have a pretty decent car for economy and sure as hell can’t afford the cost of fuel a $5 @ gal.”

    So your solution is what? Should taxpayers subsidize gas prices to keep them below $2.50, for example?

  54. pedro fernandez Says:

    Even at $5 a gallon, for an avg family of 4 it is still cheaper to drive to a destination than to fly and rent a car, which is why I think this FL bullet train is gonna be a big failure. From Miami to Orlando, it is much cheaper to rent a car, drive there,than take the bullet train which I’m sure it’s gonna cost as much as an airplane ticket. and then rent a car to get around there. It all makes sense folks, the avg European car is a lot smaller than the ones over here cause they need to get better fuel economy due to the higher gas prices over there.

  55. Kit Gerhart Says:

    If I live long enough to see the completion of the Orlando/Miami phase of the Florida fast train, I’d use it once in a while. That ~250 miles is an ideal distance for fast trains. It’s a long drive, but flying airplanes that short of distance is really inefficient, and wouldn’t save much or any time over the train.

  56. XA351GT Says:

    Bob ,
    I’ll agree with you the SUV point. Most people that own them really don’t need them . They don’t have huge families that require 7 seats ,but they want the size and room they offer. They will have to decide if it’s worth the price to fill it. We saw what they thought in 2008 when they hit used car lots like a plague.My point is I already own two small cars that get good mileage and drive minimally how do I decrease the huge impact that this would have on my income. Unfortunately I don’t have a business to right off the fuel against.

    Here’s another thing gas is something as a vehicle owner I HAVE to buy. I have zero choice. It’s not like if milk goes to $5 a gallon I can just go drink orange juice if it’s cheaper. Another to touch on your drug analogy Many of us don’t need drugs and those that do hopefully have insurance that lessens that hit to the wallet. Now I know there are people who are being killed by drug costs and I don’t like that they are being burdened by it. But Everyone in some way or form is affected by fuel costs directly or indirectly. Those using mass transit see their fares go up. Anyone buying anything sees the price of the those goods go up do to shipping costs.The economy is now almost 2 1/2 years later just turning around from the last fuel gouge. It also doesn’t help when you hear what the CEOs of oil companies make in salary and bonus. These guys make in one year more than many of us will in a lifetime or 2.

  57. tj Martin Says:

    @ Bob ;

    Simple solution . Drive less . Drive slower . I got 24 mpg average when I had my 4Runner . Drove less than 8,000 miles a year . It can be done . Easily !

    Oh but thats too easy most would say . No technology . No New anything .

    But ahhhhh …… thats the point .

  58. XA351GT Says:

    Here’s a couple of facts that I dug up. The total compensation for Exxon/Mobil ‘s in 2008 CEO was
    $22,400,000 @ year that breaks down to
    $ 1,866,666.67 @ month
    $ 430,769.23 @ week
    $ 86,153.85 @ day
    $ 10,769.23 @ hour
    $ 179.49 @ minute
    $ 2.99 @ second
    This is just a example, the total salary of the top brass would make most 3rd world countries jealous. This is the same year that we all got hammered for $4+ @ gal fuel. Do I feel sorry that they only made 8% profit ? Nope , maybe if they had sane salaries the company would have posted a better profit. I also read where someone came up with a figure that if the minimum wage had increased at the same rate as CEO salaries since 1968 that it would be $84 @ hour.

  59. Kit Gerhart Says:

    XA351GT,
    Interesting information there. On a related note, I found that, based on 2009 data, the Exxon-Mobil CEO would have been annually paid equal to 19 lifetimes of the average worker. The E-M CEO, R. W. Tillerson got $27,168,317 that year.

    People argue that sports figures are overpaid, which they probably are. Still, there is a good case to be made that they aren’t nearly as overpaid as CEO’s of large corporations. I suspect there are a lot more people who could run a company as well as Tillerson, than could play basketball as well as Michael Jorden when he was at his prime.

  60. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Re: my post #51

    Hate to say I told ya!!!

    Breaking News:

    US revokes Visas of Venezuelan Diplomatic corps.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101230/ts_nm/us_usa_venezuela_4

    This sill surely push them to turn off their portion of the pump.

    These guys are one of our top 5 oil suppliers.

    Expect gas to go up even higher.

    So much for the President being a Socialist(said that in critical sarcasm), as Obama is trying to start a war with a REAL Socialist.

    We Evicted their Ambassasdors, and in response they evicted our Ambassadors.http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2013798603_apususvenezuela.html?syndication=rss

    They are moving towards war but I guess the President’s Golf game is more important.

  61. Bob Says:

    “Even at $5 a gallon, for an avg family of 4 it is still cheaper to drive to a destination than to fly and rent a car, which is why I think this FL bullet train is gonna be a big failure.”

    For a family, driving is unbeatable cost-wise. For one or two passengers, the train may be better, even if they pay more $ total, since they have all the free time to do what they want instead of watching out for distracted, drunk, texting or other loser drivers on the highway when they drive.

    Really fast trains may eliminate the accursed planes and their cattle section (aka coach) and all the wasteful delays at the airports over distances up to 750 miles, not just 250. Those trains can do the 750 mile express in 3-4 hours! When I went from SHanghai to Beijing with a sleeper fast train, 7 PM to 7 AM, in 2006, now they have a really fast one that can do it in 3-4 hours!

    trains have the other VAST advantage over planes that they go downtown to downtown, no need for $50 taxis at either end!

    Finally, if you drive to a downtown area, you have to park the damned thing, trains save you that hassle and expense.

  62. Bob Says:

    XA351GT Says:
    December 30th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
    “Bob ,
    I’ll agree with you the SUV point. …My point is I already own two small cars that get good mileage and drive minimally how do I decrease the huge impact that this would have on my income. ”

    If you need to commute 200 miles a day (each of you?!) like some Honda site owners with 712,000 miles on their Accords I posted the other time, if it is your main job, you cannot even deduct it from your taxes and save a third or so. Then you need to move closer to work eventually. But if you just have an average commute of 20 miles or so each, then I fail to see why this is a “huge” impact. DId you do the math, and com pare this to the other things (health care, tuition etc) that have gone up much more than gas?? If you give me some details, I could do the math myself and find out.

    “Unfortunately I don’t have a business to right off the fuel against. ”

    I don’t have a business either but I can deduct the business (but not commuting) miles. Even better, I usually get reimbursed for my business trips. I don’t drive a fuel efficient car but a big BMW v8 long and heavy sedan, 12-18 city and 22 highway actual MPG, and when I drive to Wash DC and back (which I do often) for business, 1070 miles or so, my gas bill is less than $200, but the reimbursement is close to $600 and they also pay all the tolls separately! In 2009 I did four such business trips, and even after paying the $520 annual insorance and the $250 license fee and the $100 oilchange and a minor replacement (Wiper arms-base etc) $150 or so, I still made.. a good profit by driving the car that year!!!

  63. Bob Says:

    On Big OIl and CEO pay.

    These are companies worth 100s of billions of $, and to pay a CEO $0.01 Billion a year is not even peanuts, it is a speck of dust for them.

    IN FACT, if that CEO knows what he is doing and succeeds to deliver VALUE to his OWNERS, the Comp;any SHAREHOLDERS, He is worth EVERY SINGLE PENNY, and even TEN TIMES THAT!!!

    What is WRONG is to pay these CEOS huge amounts and bonuses NOT only when they do well, but also when they SCREW UP! ANd give them golden parachutes worth $100s of millions when they are FIRED!

    THIS is due to legal cl;auses in their contracts that should never have been agreed by the Boards.

    BUT the reason these outrageous and unfair deals are signed, is that the CEOS THEMSELVES appoint their… Compensation Boards (!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

    Talk about HUGE, Gigantic conflicts of interest!!

  64. Bob Says:

    One more reason gas will be more expensive is the consequences of the BP DIsaster debacle.

    Not only did this cost BP 20 billion or so, an amount that would bankrupt even any of the non-bankrupt automakers in the world (LOL!),

    The clueless Obama admin has forbidden similar offshore drilling in the area and an extended other areas in the Gulf,

    Which will only REDUCE the supply of oil and further INCREASE gas prices!

  65. Bob Says:

    Put yourselves in the place of the CEO of any big oil co.

    Aftyer they see how badly BP was burned with its accident in the Gulf,

    How many of them will they risk a few billion $s of revenue from a new large deep offshore field in the US waters,

    when they know there is a real risk to lose $20 billion if anything goes wrong, AND get a bad name in the process?

    WHich means, even HIGHER gas prices!

  66. Bob Says:

    Ihave been saying that dirt-cheap gas prices for many decades have desrtroyed the downtown areas of most US cities, which used to be healthy places to live in, far more enjoyable than the damned suburb bedroom communities with malls.

    People were able to move out of the ghettos and the city centers and buy larger houses with lots of lawn, but this will change with high gas prices, they will no longer be able to commute 100 miles a day per person in the home, and there is really no solution other than drive less, or buy a more efficient car (even a 50 MPG used prius or 49 MPG Hwy used Jetta SPortwagen diesel) if you have to)

    Again, given what is going on in CHina, we have very little power to bring down gas prices, we have already cut our gas use big time in 2008 and our abiloity to tighten our belts further will be less next time it goes to $5.

  67. Bob Says:

    And that’s all, folks, for 2010.

    Happy New Year!

  68. jesse Says:

    UAW…NOBODY WANTS WHAT YOU HAVE TO OFFER!!Please go away.You are a big reason that GM/CHRYSLER went the way they did.WAKE UP.THIS ISN’T THE 80′S ANYMORE.

  69. XA351GT Says:

    Hey Bob,
    The last 2 paragraphs of your message #63 sounds like the congress. They also get to decide their own pay not their bosses(taxpayers).Maybe this is why the gov and oil co.s have been joined at the hip for so many years.
    Everyone have a safe and Happy New Year.

  70. XA351GT Says:

    BP was burned because they cut corners to make more money and it turned around and bit them in the ass. So they got a black eye, the ecology took a massive hit and most importantly people died on that rig because profits outweighed common sense.

  71. XA351GT Says:

    Funny I’ve never heard Ghettos and a healthy place to live in the same breath before. People left the cities and the crime to pursue the American Dream as we’ve all been programed . I will gladly live 25 miles outside a major city ( I do ,Philadelphia) not to have to worry that at any moment some low life will kick my door in and rip me off or kill me for $20 or less. This is also the reason that mass transit fails. People will always feel safer in their own cars then sitting next to some crack head on the train just waiting to drive a knife in you to score their next high.

  72. Len simpson Says:

    Life goes on, history repeats itself daily,
    human nature never changes. Where have the years gone?

  73. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ Pedro: My jeep dealer said that all problems with the auto trans overheating and burning down jk’s are the fault of the owner for not using 4 whl lo.I told them I personally have never been in a place where I needed 4 lo.This is how all of my complaints about cheap parts/poor design/and shoddy workmanship were responded too.

    Now,you know I was looking into a new F150.Well,if I don’t opt for their “off road pkg”,I can’t get skid plates.I don’t like their “off road pkg”.You HAVE TO HAVE the 3:73 gearing plus a pos electric locker.I have no need for gearing that low with a damn 6 spd,and electric lockers that you can only use in 4 whl dr…..sux,not to mention the electrics are very prone to excessive corrosion and stop working on a regular basis.They won’t let you just go with a limited slip and skid plates.

    So I did a little research on the silverado 1500 z71.Comes standard with a automatic locker (eaton g-80)skid plates,external trans/engine oil coolers,3:42 gearing,and a 6 spd auto,5 yr 100k mile powertrain warranty etc.I then drove one on a 30+ mile test drive including a bit off road….liked it….bought it.Yeah Pedro,I done bought me another chevy truck.So far with less then 250 miles on it I’m getting 18.3mpg.Not bad for a new full size that ain’t near to being broke in.Thursday morning it will be fitted with a Flowmaster 40 cat-back duals.If I’m gonna care for and feed a V8….it damn better well sound like a V8.

  74. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    High gas prices are good for America.

    High gas prices will hopefully racially/ethnically desegregate America, and if this is a NWO Agenda then I support them on this one.

    We need ot get rid of wasteful suburban Areas with 1.5 Acres of housing/land/parking for each person. I hate the suburbs. The Suburbs=everything that’s wrong with this country. The Suburbs have allowed for problems like diversity, race, ethnicity, class etc.. to fester for all of these years instead of solving the problem in the first place.

    The goal is to force people to over to Smart Growth Mega Cities, built around rail, and car use is heavilly restricted. That’s why there’s a “high speed/light rail” agenda.

    This will hopefully kill off the herd drivers=those people who have to drive but shouldnt have gotten a license in the first place. You know the assholes who drive 5 under the speed limit because they are scared of a ticket.

    You guys in the car business may hate this, but as a driving enthusiast Im sooooooooo looking forward to getting rid of many in the herd.

    You guys may want 30K Malibus a month, but that’s exactly the kind of car that needs to go. The midsized car is the devil, and it encourages bad drivers who shoudlnt be driving in the first place. The Midsized car is another ABOMINATION INVENTED BY THE SUBURBS!!!

    Midsized cars should be boutiques like the C-Class or Sonata. NOT CASH COWS!!!!

  75. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    The Suburbs will end up being the New Ghetto filled with Renters, as the new system is THANKFULLY set up so THE AVERAGE DUMB AMERICAN JOE WHO LIVES LIKE AN ANIMAL AND SHITS ON HIS FOOD WONT BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO BUY A HOUSE IN THE BURBS.

    GOOD RIDDANCE!!! THAT STUPID AMERICAN DREAM BASED ON WASTE, AND MASS CONSUMPTION IS GONE!!!

    -By Gen Y

  76. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Once the Suburbs become slums, they will be torn down, and replaced with guess what……….

    still guessing?

    FARMLAND AND FORESTS!!!!!

  77. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Middle America will turn back to the way it was 150 years ago=few big cities-but this time they will be Mega Cities with millions of people.

    For you Detroiters/Michiganders:

    We hope that 90% of Michigan’s population would end up moving to a New Rebuilt Detroit.

    For You XA351GT, we hope 90% of Pennsylvanians would be forced to move to Pilladelphia, while the rest of the state becomes virtually abandoned except for responsible land use. All of South Jersey will be forced to move to a new larger rebuilt Camden and Philladelphia. No more Suburbs down 42 or up 295 for you guys ANYMORE!!!

  78. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    This country hass 308+ million people now and people shouldnt have the right to have access to that much land.

    What do you want to turn this place into a polutied desert with 1 Billion people like China, who has to buy American Water just to survive?

  79. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Guess what, there’s no more freash water for us to buy. Unles we take it from Antarctic ice.

  80. pedro fernandez Says:

    GA, congrats! you’re really one well-informed and educated consumer,you did well with the Focus,yet were willing to look at other brands. good luck and happy new year to you and yours.

  81. XA351GT Says:

    Smoke,
    That is never gonna happen. Nobody wants to live with the cockroaches.Philadelphia drove away people with it’s ridiculous wage tax. You pay a premium to live in a freaking cesspool. Also you don’t know city structures very well. Because in the old days You had the Irish, Italian ,Slovak,German ,Chinese that all settled into their own little neighborhoods. Have you ever heard the terms little Italy and Chinatown?? So your utopian idea of racial and religious harmony is pie in the sky thinking. I think you’ve been listening to Lennon’s Imagine too much.

    You want to get rid of asshole drivers , Make everyone take the damn drivers test in ENGLISH. I have never seen a Road sign in anything other than English ,but the genius’ at PENNDOT give you the option of taking the test in Spanish. WTF , you wonder why there’s accidents. If someone can’t read the damn signs then there you go.

  82. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    XA351GT, it’s not uptopian when you think about it.

    Ill Explain:

    1. Since, Ive been gone from the Philly Metro (moved 10 years ago) I have seen one brand new tower built in Center City. This new building is also one of the tallest buildings built in the US during the last 10 year period. I think it is the tallest building built in America during that time, and it’s not all that tall. In that time China has built over 500 such towers that size.

    2. Builders and Developers do want to build in Northern Liberties, Germantown, North Philly, etc.., but to refurbish anything it costs so much money it’s cheaper to just build it out in the burbs. This is not just a Philly problem, this is a problem everywhere. LA, Detroit, Jersey, Ohio, etc…. The houses, businesses, and other structures are in such disrepair they all need to be knocked down.

    You have to destroy the old and make anew.

    The best and cheapest way to do this they have figured out ( I used to work for the government) is to just let the people destroy it all themselves. They thought they were going to depend on impoverished minorities on inner cities to do such a thing, but they cant depend on them because there are too many people who care too much. Too many people who are trying to build and redevelop areas around.

    The next way is to dump as many: Blacks, Hispanics, Men, Baby Boomers, and Young People on the unemployment roles as possible as these are the 6 groups most likely to protest, riot, and resist government and corporations when pushed.

    Yeah, you create a crisis which requires employers to dump as many workers as possible, and those in these 6 groups are the most likely to be fired. In the last place I worked, they would fire a Gen Y and a Baby Boomer at the same time. Look at the statistics. The Gen Xers who are familly aged arent getting hit as hard. The unemployment rate for women is about 7% while for men it’s about 17%

    Then you create a social and economic climate that entices people to riot. You then create a series of events that will push them over the edge. The first one will happen soon as Conservatives want to slash the budget hard. The next one we dont know. A Presidential assasination? A collaspe of the Dollar? Who knows?

    You then get them to destroy it all themselves. All of those cockroach places, etc… You get them to burn it all down to the ground.

    Then you create a solution to the problem. You get everybody as brothers, and you entice them to move to cities that are being rebuilt new for the 21st Century with high gas prices as an extra incentive.

    It’s not just an urban suburban problem. It’s a Rural problem too. There’s too many small towns in Middle America being held back because they have historical preservation orgs holding back progress. They are going to end up burning it down to the ground too.

    Regardless of where you live there will be no escape, and many Americans are pissed for whatever reason and it’s universal.

    That old Cockroach infested old “Americana” crap they have along the old highways and byways of Middle America=poof be gone. Route 66 like many of the people who frequent it is old and dying, and all of the old Americana crap is going to be gone.

    So to you old guys who that like that stuff from places such as Route 66, you better pick as many goods as possible from those areas. The old nostaligic stuff, the old cars, everything as even the people in small towns are going to burn it down too.

    If I were Autoline Id do a special on places such as Route 66 and various other old American dives soon, as in a few years it’s not going to be the same again.

    The old America has to go in order for a new Stronger more prosperous country to blossom.

    You cant continue to build on the sand. Something has to give eventually.

  83. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Pick it clean.

  84. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Pick it clean, and only sell the stuff you picked to a museum for top dollar (ONLY IF YOU NEED THE DOUGH).

    BTW, you have less than 24 months. America can not continue to deteriorate in this manner without an explosion. I used to to work for the governement, I know.

    Yes, Im a social engineer. The only solution for the New America we want is=poof to the Old America.

    In the past they were hoping for WWIII to make this happen, but that didnt materialize.

    This destruction is 30 years overdue. To resist it is futile.

    This will be bad at first-Very bad in fact, but just remember the Civil War created the conditions that helped turned America from an Agrarian 3rd world backwater (for that time we were a 3rd world country-compared to the powers in Europe we were a 3rd world country) to an Industrial powerhouse that survived the Depression and destroyed the Nazis and ultimately became the most powerful superpower on Earth.

    Another such discourse would help turn America from the Industrial Ruins and International Embarassment it is today, to the nation that cures cancer as opposed to make better boners, to the nation that goes to Mars, sets up colonies on the moon, saves the world from being slaves to oil, and even plots and plans so the Children of Gen Y can go to the Stars to spread the Human race in the cosmos, and the various other things that need to be done for the future betterment of mankind.

  85. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    Regarding the Budget cuts:

    The Baby Boomers would riot if you play too much around with Social Security.

    Inner City Blacks and Hispanics would riot if you play around with Social Services.

    Unemployed Men are committing crimes left and right these days, and they will riot just because everybody else is.

    The Young People would Riot if others rioted, and they would really riot if College Financial Aid were played with.

    Continuing tax cuts to people who didnt create jobs in the first place, and then asking poor and middle class people to Accept Cuts in services, etc….=YOURE ASKING FOR TROUBLE!!!!

  86. pedro fernandez Says:

    Just read an article from AP that says gas will be $4 by Memorial day and $5 is not that unlikely in some states, well I wonder if this will push people towards smaller cars or will it push people out of the new car market even more? Looks to me that 10 million units per year will be hard to reach if this happens.

  87. pedro fernandez Says:

    Hey smoke the commies knew that they could not defeat us from without but they could from within. We already see signs of this in some European countries with the riots and anarchy and such. It may come to that here and Western Europe with the have-nots taking on the have’s

  88. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It seems that the have-nots did not pay much attention to the political process this last election. They elected, and allowed to be elected a bunch of people whose agenda is mainly aimed at redistributing wealth from the poor to the rich. Most of the new crop in Congress are obsessed with maintaining low taxes for billionaires, low or no estate taxes, even on very large estates, and reducing government services for middle and lower income people.

    Even the notoriously right-wing WSJ makes a case for estate tax at: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704358904575477593075638722.htmlhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704358904575477593075638722.html

    The new group in congress will fight like crazy to do away with it, though.

  89. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Sorry, my copy/paste of that link got messed up. Try:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704358904575477593075638722.html

  90. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    I have been tracking. There’s a Riot Pattern all over the world. The US and Mexico are among the Few countries that havent had Protest/Riot/Civil War/Revolutionary like conditions yet.

    The Riots started in Japan and France 2 and 3 years ago. Then it spread to the Uighar Riots in China, and from there they have spreaded like wildfire.

    They even had Riots in Toronto recently.

    You cant be scared of the change guys. Dont you want to make some real money again? Dont you want security back? All of us have been hurt somehow, someway.

  91. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    I have been tracking. There’s a Riot Pattern all over the world. The US and Mexico are among the Few countries that havent had Protest/Riot/Civil War/Revolutionary like conditions yet.

    The Riots started in Japan and France 2 and 3 years ago. Then it spread to the Uighar Riots in China, and from there they have spreaded like wildfire.

    They even had Riots in Toronto recently.

    You cant be scared of the change guys. Dont you want to make some real money again? Dont you want security back? All of us have been hurt somehow, someway.

    I think the US could sell 20 Million units by 2018.

    Ill Explain:

    By that time, not only the Baby Boomers and Gen Xers will have to downsize, but Gen Y will have fully gorwn up to be sophisticated car buyers. Remember there’s 82 Million Gen Ys born from 80-95. Plus some of the Gen Zs will be buying their first and even second cars and many of them could be new.

    There will be an economic boom like never before in the history of this nation by 2018. I have this feeling. The economy will start to sputter back to hiring in 2014, by 2016 things will be fully recovered, and by 2018 things are roaring like never before.

    There will be too much new tech, etc.. so many new housing starts, everything will have to be new, clothes, everything.

  92. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    There will be people who are sleeping on grates right this second, who will have so much money they dont know what to do with by 2018.

    The New World companies like: Hyundai/KIA, Facebook, Google, Walmart, LG/Samsung will be more dominant than the Old World companies like: Toyota, GM, Ford, VW, Motorola, Coke.

  93. HyundaiSmoke Says:

    We have to roar as we continue to march towards WWIII with China, but that’s 15 years or so away, and we still have pletny of time to prepare.

    By the way, a stronger new nation that can stand a chance against China we have to be. A place where we can develop the best scientists from anywhere, whether it’s Appalachia or the Inner City.

    2013 is the critical mass year as the youngest Gen Ys turn 18. Gen X was the Generation of world connectedness, while Gen Y is the Generaiton of solving Domestic problems-even the ones Gen Xers and Baby Boomers have thrown away as lost causes years ago.

    It;s going to be like this all over the world, as nation states make themselves stronger to prepare for a possibel Chinese challenge.

    Come on guys, if China came here today we would soooo lose it’s not funny. We have too many vulnerabilities. Too many feuds the Chinese can exploit, etc…