Episode 817 – January Sales Blow the Doors Off, GM “Patently” the Best, David v. Goliath

February 2nd, 2012 at 11:55am

Runtime: 8:12

Sales of new cars and trucks blew out of the gate in the American market last month.  Even though General Motors spends less on research and development than Volkswagen and Toyota, the company is No. 1 when it comes to generating patents.  Remember that California woman that was suing Honda in small-claims court because her Civic Hybrid didn’t deliver the fuel economy promised on the window sticker? Yeah, in a shocking bit of news she actually won the case!  All this and more, plus the latest news from Mopar.

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This is Autoline Daily for February 2nd, and now, the news.

JANUARY SALES: REACH FOR THE STARS (subscription required)
Sales of new cars and trucks blew out of the gate in the American market last month. Ward’s reports that 910,000 vehicles were sold, an 11.5 percent increase compared to a year ago. Most impressively, the SAAR rate hit 14.1 million vehicles, a rate that suggests this year will come in almost 1.5 million vehicles higher than last. The biggest sales gain came from Mazda, which posted a 68 percent increase. Volkswagen was up 48 percent. Chrysler Group was up 43 percent. Jaguar-Land Rover up 31 percent. And Kia was up 28 percent. The biggest losers were Suzuki, down 41 percent; Mitsubishi, down 17 percent; and General Motors, down 6 percent. Saab was actually down the most, but we’re not counting them. The Toyota Camry was the best-selling car; the F-Series, the best-selling truck; and the Honda CR-V was the best-selling crossover. If this is a sign of things to come, let’s get going! 2012 could be a very good year.

Not only were sales up in the American market, they were up in Brazil, too. New-car sales were just over 268,000 units in January, which is a 9.6 percent increase compared to a year ago. This is a good sign because companies like GM, Ford, Fiat and VW rely heavily on sales in the region.

Even though General Motors spends less on research and development than Volkswagen and Toyota, the company is No. 1 when it comes to generating patents. For the fourth consecutive quarter, GM is tops among 183 companies ranked by The Patent Board in its automotive and transportation industry scorecard. GM was granted 1,123 patents in the U.S. last year.

DAVID AND GOLIATH (subscription required)
Talk about David and Goliath. Remember that California woman that was suing Honda in small-claims court because her Civic Hybrid didn’t deliver the fuel economy promised on the window sticker? Yeah, in a shocking bit of news she actually won the case! The former lawyer opted out of a class-action suit against the company in an effort to get a higher settlement, and it worked. She was awarded nearly 10 grand.

What is with these Chinese copy cats? The other day we showed you a truck built by JAC that is a shameless rip-off of the Ford F-150. That prompted Ross, an Autoline Daily viewer in Queensland, Australia to send us a picture of the JAC Reni ute, which is a unabashed carbon-copy of the Chevy Colorado! What did I tell you? Shameless.

This next one was submitted by the gratuitous explosions department of Autoline Daily. It’s a clip from the TV show “Stuntbusters.” Flames and flying cars; what’s cooler than that? I’ll tell you what: slow motion. Watch this MG Midget tumble and burn at 1,000 frames per second. Why’d we pick this story? Just ‘cause.

Coming up next, it’s we’ll take a look at the new performance models Mopar is coming out with.

2012 is an important year for Chrysler’s Mopar brand. The “motor parts” division is celebrating its 75th birthday. From humble beginnings, it’s come a long way in the last three-quarters of a century.

And Mopar has spread to more than 120 countries around the world. It’s also expanding the number of services it offers, handling things like customer care, aftermarket performance and, of course, replacement parts. Chrysler’s alliance with Fiat means more customers in more markets have Mopar as an option the next time their vehicle needs service.

And to build customer loyalty Mopar is working with dealers to improve brand identity by redesigning customer waiting areas. These new spaces will be bright and cheerful, with things like wireless internet to make the time spent at a dealership as painless as possible. Parts and maintenance may have been how this brand got started, but today it’s so much more than that.

And some of its latest aftermarket parts will be showcased on four new specialty vehicles making their public debuts next week at the Chicago Auto Show. They include a hopped-up Cinquecento – the Fiat 500 Stinger – with a host of appearance upgrades . . . . . a modified Dodge Dart called the GTS 210 Tribute. Among many other changes, it features a carbon-fiber hood and an available performance package delivering up to 210 horsepower. Next we have the Mopar ‘12 300. Beyond appearance upgrades this Chrysler features a shorter final-drive ratio for faster acceleration and a lowered suspension. Lastly, Jeep joins the mix with the Compass True North. It goes the opposite way by gaining a two-inch lift along with new bodywork.

Going forward, we’re told Mopar will stay very connected with its heritage of performance and personalization, but it will also focus on advanced new technology to stay relevant in the next 75 years.

Don’t forget to join us tonight for Autoline After Hours. Our guest will be Chris Preuss, the former president of OnStar and former vice president of corporate communications at General Motors. This is going to be a very lively discussion, so join me and the Autoextremist, Peter De Lorenzo for the best insider discussions in the industry.

And that wraps up today’s show, join us again tomorrow.

Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog and WardsAuto.com

133 Comments to “Episode 817 – January Sales Blow the Doors Off, GM “Patently” the Best, David v. Goliath”

  1. tj Martin Says:


    Gee ! You’d of thought Ferrari would of used this as the perfect opportunity to show off the FF !

    Oh … but wait ! The FF’s AWD doesn’t engage over 50 mph and its worthless in over an inch of snow

    Never mind :(


    PATENTLY the Best ???

    Oh GM may have the numbers , but when it comes to quality , ground breaking technology and Industry influencing creations GM is no where to be found

    Quality and Innovation thats influencing the entire Industry is Mercedes realm .

    Oh …. but we’re back on that ever so complicated and difficult to comprehend QUALITY vs QUANTITY issue that in fact GM hasn’t had a grip on since 1965 ;-)

  2. tj Martin Says:

    MOPAR staying relevant ???

    MOPAR hasn’t had a Relevant moment since 1970 !

  3. pedro fernandez Says:

    Word of advice to Ms Peters: trade in that Civic before the battery goes kaput (it will) and use part of the money you received to get yourself a new Prius, which you should have done so in the first place!

  4. pedro fernandez Says:

    The Mopar “guy” is an Italian, I find that funny!

  5. HtG Says:

    I’ve got to take exception to recognizing GM’s patent leadership based upon the number of patents it’s filing. A well known tactic of tech companies is to build a fence of patents around patents, and inflate the number of patents on their books. This makes it harder for competitors to do similar technologies, and builds a foundation for litigation. It’s a sad game that is only gumming up innovation.

  6. Autos101 Says:

    #4 I also noticed the thick accent but was not sure what it was, thought it was a leftover Daimler German dude

  7. HtG Says:

    On suing Honda. Wait for the appeal, she hasn’t won squat, yet.

  8. tj Martin Says:


    Its about freaking time someone took this action

    Next ?

    I’ll guess the pretentious Prius , assuming there’s at least on owner out there that isn’t completely deluded by all the hype and BS .

    Then after Toyota … each and every stinking miserable Smoke & Mirrors Hybrid being sold in the US

    Your time is gonna come ( to quote LZ ) Hybridmania

  9. tj Martin Says:



    You tell em HtG . That as well !

  10. tj Martin Says:


    That Prius battery will be going kerput as well and sooner than you might think pedro ( CAR ) Then the rest of its electronics

    Ohhhhhh its not a doin so well over the long term ( more than five years ) that thar pretentious Prius ;-)

    Save yer pennies there Kit cause yer a gonna need em . Lots o em

  11. HtG Says:

    9 I will tell em, tj. If you look at the increased in car digital interfaces, and increased computer controls in cars, and in their manufacture, it’s reasonable to ask what fields all these patents by GM are in.

  12. HtG Says:

    Even better than the Italian dude representing MOPAR, was last week when John interviewed the Mercedes guy who said they were an american company kinda, because of their US factories(hi Chrysler!!). I thought John was going to punch him out.

  13. Mark Says:

    John, what are your thoughts on Fiat/Chrysler’s brand strategy? Dodge, Chrysler, Fiat as traditional brands make sense to me. However, SRT, Ram, Mopar as stand alone brand don’t make sense. In my opinion, they are making it hard to understand all the brands and the average consumer will find it confusing.

    Here’s what the average consumer will ask:
    - Where do I go to get an SRT 300 versus and SRT Charger?
    - Who will sell the SRT Viper? Wait, it’s no longer a Dodge?
    - There are Mopar waiting rooms in Chrysler and Dodge dealers?


  14. pedro fernandez Says:

    speaking of broke promises, just finished watching Motorweek where they tested the Mazda 3 Skyactive that is supposed to get 40mpg on the highway, now why don’t they test it out on the highway and report on the actual mileage, instead we get a combined 33 number, and this is the case with every test I’ve read. except for Newsday which tested it on the highway and only managed to get around 34 doing 50 mph, These EPA numbers are getting more ridiculous all the time with a barrage of “40mpg” cars that just cannot be duplicated.

  15. pedro fernandez Says:

    Then there’s the Elantra’s lofty 40mpg claims being challenged by CR. They should do a real world test to see which of these cars claiming to get 40 highway mpg actually can do so, I consider it to be deceptive advertising if they cannot achieve this.

  16. HtG Says:

    14 Meanwhile Pedro, I just recorded my mileage on a run between NY and DC, then back a ways into NJ. Dividing miles(420.8) by gallons(10.7), the car got 39.33mpg. And this was done traveling at 70+, using the AC for defogging for ~200miles, and with about 20 miles run in city traffic.

    Civic rocks the highway.

  17. pedro fernandez Says:

    HtG all I can say is: “She’s a keeper” that beats out the Skycrap and the Elantra with its body in motion (even when it’s standing still) and no payments and lower insurance rates and no worries if some inconsiderate a-hole parks too close to you, “it’s cheaper to keep her” a new version by HtG..

  18. pedro fernandez Says:

    Off topic, I just read the Trump is supporting Romney, My reaction was: Who the f cares what this idiot thinks or supports, if you vote for a candidate just because this guy backs him. I feel sorry for you!

  19. HtG Says:

    In my own sometimes aggressive(floors it out of some turns) mixed driving the average is more like 30. So when I hear modern cars touting 40mpg, I’m nonplussed. And I also know that if I crunch the Miata, the insurance co will total it(I asked). So the Civic is a keeper until something far better comes along.

  20. tj Martin Says:

    GM’s Patent ( urp ) Success

    I’ll place odds that at this very moment there are more vehicles on the road containing one or more patents owned by Sir Alex Moulton than GM

    ( in truth thats a suckers bet as there is not a single vehicle on the road today with tires and/or suspension that doesn’t have at least one Moulton patent in its make up …… Now THAT my friends ….. is ” Patent ” Success )

  21. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG

    ever so slightly ‘ off topic ‘

    Guess what just arrived on my inbox ?

    Two freebies from the kind folks at Morgan for the 2012 Geneva show . For the entire show plus the non public previews .

    Hmmmmn . May have to consider this one seeing as how the snow is so good this year . Hmmmn .


    @ pedro – #18 ….. +1 x 100

  22. tj Martin Says:


    Agreed as well

  23. HtG Says:

    21 you gotta go tj. Do a report ALD.

    ps OT, if you’re not busy, tj. You can watch the Berlin Phil Digital Concert Hall beginning in a few moments. 10 Euros, once you register. Guess who’s soloing the JB?

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    That’s kind of scary that someone would win a suit against a car company because they didn’t match or beat the car’s EPA numbers. I rarely beat the 51/48 ratings with my Prius, even though I get better mileage than I would with any other car in the U.S. market having as much room. A lot of people don’t match the EPA ratings of their cars, no matter what kind of car.

    Of course, this woman’s law suit probably has a long way to go through appeals before it is over.

  25. tj Martin Says:

    Speaking of MPG claims lately ;

    Anyone noticed the ‘ small print ‘ caveat in all the KIA/Hyundai commercials when they put up the MPG claims ?

    ” May get up to _____ MPG ”

    Yeah you bet .” May ” . With a tailwind – on a downhill – in 20% or less humidity – with Dean Mernagh driving and nothing in the trunk . It may ;-)

    Oh yes : the Smoke & Mirrors and ” Mushroom Principal ” are both on the rise my friends

    And thats just in the Auto Industry . God help you if’n you’re digging into the Financial and Political side of things

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    If only you knew even a little bit about Priuses. I won’t have to worry about the battery, because it will be on warranty longer than the 5-6 years I normally keep my “daily driver” car. Also, the batteries rarely fail anyway. I know two people with ’04 Priuses with ~150K miles. The biggest problem with either was an expensive to fix HID headlight. That’s what you get, when you “load up” a car with silly options.

  27. tj Martin Says:


    Snif . Remember no Online purchasing in our household

    Snif !

  28. tj Martin Says:


    Tell that to the fine folks at CAR magazine as well as the UK owners that have been reporting in .

    Better yet Kit . Save up those pennies . You’re in for the ‘ shock ‘ of your life

  29. tj Martin Says:


    Oh and I forgot to mention;

    I don’t know of a single Prius over five years old that HAS NOT needed battery replacement as well as extensive electronics repairs . Total number I personally know about ?

    27 . Nobody ever listens

  30. tj Martin Says:


    Thats called ‘ Truth in Advertising ‘ there Kit ole bean !

    You advertise X your product damn well better be able to do X or you’re in fact lying in your Ads ….. which is BTW a criminal as well as civil offense

    Which tells you something about the Court system in CA that they wouldn’t take the woman’s valid complaint to Criminal Court , forcing her to take it to Civil Court on her own dime

    Its about time people start taking a stand against all the BS the advertisers and manufactures ( of everything ) are shoving down our throats .

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    @tj, #29,
    Do you even know anyone who has a Prius?

    By the way, in the unlikely event that you do need a Prius battery, they are available from wrecks for under $1000 dollars. Also, the last I heard, new ones are under $3000 for the ’04-’09 cars. I’ve know people who have spent a lot more than that for transmission repairs on cars like, say, a Ford, and it would be a lot more than that for a Benz.

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    If everyone who didn’t match the EPA numbers of their cars sued the company that built their car, there would be an awful lot of laws suits. The EPA numbers are the result of a set of tests. The window sticker on the car is not at “ad” saying you will get that mileage, and clearly states that “your mileage may vary,” or something to that effect.

  33. buzzerd Says:

    Kit it’s not worth wasting your time, tj has made up his mind, all US cars are junk and the companies should close up tomorrow and all hybrids will either burst into flames or the batteries will cost you $10,000 in less than 5 years. It doesn’t matter than none of this is true but if you tell yourself something enough times you start to believe your own BS.

  34. tj Martin Says:


    Yes but when the manufacture puts those numbers in their ” Ad’s” well …… there you have it

    #33 Well you’re certainly making a lot of (ass)umptions there buzzerd ( ” all US cars are junk – haven;t read my reviews of the C6 or the BOSS 302 now have ya ) As well as not being able to disprove a single claim I’ve made

    Tell you what there my fine feathered friend ( the moniker ) Anytime you’d like to go on a FACT finding mission and disprove what I’m claiming when I’m being adamant something , lets Rock & Roll baby .

    I’m well equipped , informed and up to the task

    Question is buzzerd . Are you ? ;-)

  35. tj Martin Says:

    MOPAR’s Relevancy

    After watching a great documentary over the weekend on the original Trans Am series I was considering putting up a post suggesting the SCCA and the ( urp ) Big Three consider reviving the series , with their modified ( not silhouette ) 21st Century Pony Cars

    But then I realized after the current MOPAR NHRA Pro Stock debacle Chrysler would probably try and show up with the Dodge Dart instead of the Challenger

    So …. never mind

  36. buzzerd Says:

    tj you really have gotten quite boring.

  37. tj Martin Says:


    $3000 for the battery

    $2- $ 4000 for the labor

    $350 – $5000 for disposal ( depending on where you live )

    And ahhhh speaking of knowing/owning a Toyota you’ve still yet to answer how it is any Toyota owned could not know that CASTROL and Toyota have had a partnership for going on at least two decades now , in everything from providing all the lubricants for Toyota/Lexus to sponsoring Toyota’s WRC , F1 , LeMans etc efforts

    Heck even the Mrs know what oil goes into her Toyota so how is it such an ‘ Expert ‘ as yourself has missed out on that most obvious of Facts ? Ehh ?

    But …. in answer to your rather arrogant question , why yes I really do . Would you like me to go into details about all the problems the Prius owners I know have had , from being unable to function in sub zero weather – dying in mid road in over 95 weather and unable to be re-started , the battery , electronics , etc that have needed replacement etc etc etc

  38. tj Martin Says:


    Thats a cop out if I’ve ever heard one !

    Oh well .

    No Guts . No glory . Buzzerd !

  39. tj Martin Says:


    Oh but wait !

    Let me guess .

    You either work for or have been conned into buying one of the cars / brands I’ve been so roundly criticizing

  40. Autos101 Says:


    There is NOTHING “pretentious” about the Prius, you utter, clueless FOOL!

    IT DELIVERS. It is OPTIMAL for its mission, FOOL.

    WISE UP.

  41. Autos101 Says:

    #24 That woman should have sued the EPA, not HONDA!!!


    IT makes the rules!

    I bet the woman could not sue the EPA so she sued Honda.

  42. Autos101 Says:

    The Prius and the prius V are both AWESOME. No ifs ands ofr buts.

    The Prius C has received much lower EPA MPG than one would logically expect, bringing it on average as good as the regular Prius( EPA Wise),

    EVEN THO it is 1. a much smaller, 2. lighter vehicle with 3. a smaller engine.

    I bet CR accurate MPG tests should show it is significantly better than the already AWESOME Prius.

    The Plug-in Prius, it depends on pricing. Overseas, they have priced it RIDICULOUSLY High, more than $10,000 (8,000 Euros) over the regular Prius. IF they make the same mistake here, it is toast. UNLESS it gats the damned $7,500 the stupid volt and the moronic Leaf get.

  43. pedro fernandez Says:

    I remember reading a couple of years back that the EPA would be using more “realistic” methods to test out cars, well the recent bunch of alledged 40mpg cars and the inability of anyone else being able to achieve those lofty numbers unless they’re doing 50 with a 120lb passenger, no A/C and a tail wind, makes me think it’s time for another EPA redo.

  44. Kit Gerhart Says:


    “$350 – $5000 for disposal ( depending on where you live )”

    No, tj, Toyota PAYS YOU $200 for the battery, and makes sure it gets recycled properly. Not that this has happened very much, since the batteries rarely fail.

    Also, in case you missed it a while back, my owner’s manual, and probably all Toyota owner’s manuals say the car came with “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil,” and the manual only says to use the correct viscosity oil, 0W20 in the case of a Prius. There is no mention of Castrol anywhere in the manual. You have been doing to many magic mushrooms.

  45. Autos101 Says:

    pedro fernandez Says:
    February 2nd, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    “I remember reading a couple of years back that the EPA would be using more “realistic” methods to test out cars, well the recent bunch of alledged 40mpg cars and the inability of anyone else being able to achieve those lofty numbers unless they’re doing 50 with a 120lb passenger, no A/C and a tail wind, makes me think it’s time for another EPA redo.”

    Just close the incompetent, voo-doo damned clowns down.

    What you remember may have been complaints from mostly hybrid owners, but more than 4 years ago, which could not get the 60 MPG EPA for the Prius etc.

    In response to their complaints, the EPA did a re-do already in 2008. That is why most cars (not the hybrids) get BETTER MPG than the revised (current) EPA numbers.

    The damned fools at the EPA even had the audacity to PUBLISH on the web their voo-doo methods by which they (practically ARBITRARILY) lowered the MPGs.

    They DID NOT go TEST the vehicles, but got ONE regression line and then adjusted each MPG by about 10-12%!

    I have the whole RIDICULOUS 200+ page report, which shall live in INFAMY on the Web.. These EPA clowns are too stupid to realize how DUMB and UNSCIENTIFIC it makes them look.


  46. Autos101 Says:

    #43 recently makers were able to obviously game the EPA’s foolish recipe and get many of their POS to c laim 40 MPG EPA HWY, or even bigger nos for hybrids like the Fusion Hybrid, much higher than the Camry Hybrid, which were NOT verified in REAL (not EPA VOO DOO) MPG tests.

  47. Kit Gerhart Says:

    @tj, #37,
    I figured something out for you, tj. You are confusing Toyota with MINI. Unlike Toyota, MINI actually DOES recommend Castrol oil. Hmmm, and you have been on this mis-directed rant for months.

  48. Autos101 Says:

    Speaking of oil changes, I did change my oils with synthetic as usual, last Feb 2011, and did only a few miles with the 740iL since then, about 2,000. When the oil has just been replaced, the oil change indicator changes from a small yellow or red window to five green windows. The car ran for about 5 months with all 5 windows, and then another 5 or so with 4 windows, and today it lost another window and has 3. I usually wait until there is one green window left or a yellow window, before I change the oil again. If I continue to do few miles, it may take 18 months to 2 years to be told by the car computer that it is time to change it again.

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The current EPA numbers are downwardly adjusted from the actual test results. It is certainly possible to easily beat the highway numbers, but not in most people’s normal driving.

    I’d like to see them just test cars at steady speed like they do in Europe. The numbers would be much higher than most people would get, but they would be good for comparing cars.

    I’d also like to see CR test them at a higher speed than their current 65 mph highway test. It would be interesting to know what a VW TDI does at 75 or 80 mph compared to other cars.

  50. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I suppose your indicator is looking at miles, along with number of cold starts, etc. At least that was what the one did in my Malibu. It usually to to 10% at about 6000 mile which, for me, was about 6 months.

    Neither my MINI nor my Prius have oil change indicators. For the MINI, they say 15K miles, and for the Prius, 10K. Both say to change it at one year, regardless of mileage. Since I put few miles on the MINI, and in a warm climate, I’ll probably be going a lot more than a year, after I get my last “free” oil change in a couple weeks.

  51. pedro fernandez Says:

    #48 I thought the computer just kept track of the miles driven between oil changes, how can it differentiate between syn and dino oil? If you buy a specific car cause the EPA says it will get 40 mpg on the hwy, it should carry an easy to read disclaimer, saying that your mileage will be lower based on speed, weather, road conditions, etc I’ve seen plenty of TV ads just claiming 40 mpg and nothing else is said.

  52. Autos101 Says:

    #50 I don’t think the computer just looks at the time that passed, or the miles, or both, but if it is worthy of its salt, it should also have a sensor checking viscosity and other oil quality attributes. I’d be dissapointed if it doesn’t.

  53. Autos101 Says:

    #51 see #52.

  54. Autos101 Says:


    The current EPA figures for my 740iL are 15-22, down from 17-25 pre-2008, and I can easily beat them both (city or highway).

    In real life I get 22-23 highway but driving far faster than 65 or 75, and accelerating hard when I feel like it, going full throttle up steep long climbs etc. If I went 65 I’m sure I’d easily get the old 25 MPG.

    around town, IF I did not have extremely short commutes and cold starts, I would also easily beat the 15 and even the old 17 MPG.

  55. C-Tech Says:

    @ #35
    If I remember T/A correctly, the other cars which competed in the series were modified 2.0L cars (like the BMW 2002, Datsun 510). If they did revive the series as they did it the past, then the Dodge Dart 2.0L would be a perfect fit. I welcome any fact check.

  56. Autos101 Says:

    I have never used dino crap on the 740iL. It is just not worth the savings, even tho they are significant (about $50-$100 per oil change), because 1. I only make an oil change once a year or every two years, and 2. the cost of a screwup due to the impurity-filled dino oil would be far far higher. I hope the prior owners never used dino oil either, and most likely they did not, because they did all service etc at the dealer’s.

    I even used a blend of dino and synthetic for my little Civic hatch, I do very few miles, changed the oil every… 3 years, and the local shell station charged a reasonable $40 or so for the blend.

  57. Kit Gerhart Says:

    That would definitely be nice, if they have a way to actually measure the “quality” of the oil in the engine. I’ll have to see if I can find information on what BMW does. They might have something more exotic that GM.

    Does your manual just say to “use the indicator,” with no other directions like “severe service” or such?

  58. Autos101 Says:

    #51 The EPA HWY nos are at 65 MPH. Most cars should easily exceed the 2008 or later EPA numbers. But how many drivers drive at 65? They should NOT expect to meet the EPA nos if they go 80, or if they hit the brakes all the time.

    What is surprising is when CR, which does drive them at 65 MPH, can’t get the EPA HWY nos.

  59. Autos101 Says:

    #57 I don’t remember what it says, it’s in the glove comp. I bet the next 7 changed its indicator from the “five green windows” system (which works fine for me) to something else, just for the sake of change.

  60. C-Tech Says:

    @ #52
    The GM and Chrysler (should I say Mopar?) systems use an optical sensor which measures particles (cloudiness) of your oil. As oil does its job and carries more dirt and carbon particles, the oil life index goes down. That is why driver’s who do more highway driving and pick up less carbon go farther between oil changes with this system than stop and go urban driving.

  61. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The EPA highway test has some speed variation, with an average speed of less than 65. CR’s highway numbers generally beat the current EPA highway numbers, which makes since, given the the published EPA numbers are downwardly adjusted.

    With my Prius, EPA highway is 48, and CR highway is 55
    My MINI has EPA highway of 37, and CR highway of 41
    tj’s GLK has EPA highway of 21, and CR highway of 23

  62. pedro fernandez Says:

    Edmunds has an article on this very thing, I always thought it was just like an odometer, but no!! it takes measurements such as speed, heat, how the car is used etc to arrive at such figures, I wonder if it compensates for vehicle age and inner engine cleanliness.

  63. tj Martin Says:


    The whole enchilada !


    I especially love Honda America’s claim that Ms Peters having her Honda serviced AT a Honda dealer negated her claims as Honda America is not responsible for the quality or level of work performed by an Official Honda America dealer !

    Well if Honda America isn’t then WTH is pray tell ? Peter Pan .

    Seriously take a minute and read the article and the transcripts from the lawsuit

    Honda was really ‘ reaching ‘ in their attempt to defeat Ms Peters , which shows how desperate and wrong they knew they were .

    I mean really . Is this The Best Honda America can come with with , legal counsel and strategies wise ?

    If so , no wonder Ms Peters won , the appeals will be waste of time and maybe HtG should reconsider whether or not to keep his Civic .

    My respect for Honda just went straight down the toilet

  64. pedro fernandez Says:

    If the point of the test is to get the maximum mpg out of a given car, then it needs to be driven according to its tachometer if it has one, otherwise engine speed is more crucial than vehicle speed, just drive a 3 speed and the issue becomes even more important.

  65. pedro fernandez Says:

    She took have taken her car to a Honda dealer in Japan, never mind the shipping costs!

  66. RS Says:

    Another oxymoron…

    Mercedes … Quality

  67. pedro fernandez Says:

    I wonder if in light of this decision, oem’s will start testing their own cars and putting those figures, or are they by law required to only show EPA numbers?

  68. tj Martin Says:


    It used to be that the quality manufactures intentionally Underestimated their MPG in Ad’s etc as no one is ever disappointed when their expectations are Exceeded . Toyota previous to the Prius was known for Underestimating their MPG ratings BTW .

    Companies such as MINI , M-B and BMW still do .

    But ever since Toyota came out with the pretentious Prius , they along with Subaru , Honda , Hyundai etc etc have been on a campaign to overestimate their cars MPG in an ongoing One Upmanship contest .

    FYI I’ve been Averaging 21 mpg all around w/GLK according to my calculations and 22 according to the onboard computer … so yeah i’m a very happy guy . My expectations having been well and good exceeded . If it did 19 mpg all around I’d be happy !

    As far as the EPA thing …. well lets just say there’s a whole lot of fudge factor , errors and ……. errrrr ….. under the table dealings that go on with that ever so fine government agency thats still on Windows 2000 software wise and I won’t even get into what hardware they’re using . This i know for a FACT BTW for the Doubting Thomas’s amongst us along with some details I can’t reveal ;-)

    Suffice it to say any EPA ratings are about as reliable a source as CR’s are . Which is to say THEY ARE NOT !

  69. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’d think they might show the EPA highway numbers less often in TV ads, and make the “your mileage may vary” caveats more noticeable in the ads.

    The window stickers themselves pretty clearly point out that “your mileage may vary,” but the big numbers are the most conspicuous thing on the stickers.

  70. tj Martin Says:

    @ RS

    Aint you a funny guy . Clueless . But funny

    Want a real oxymoron ?

    Place the word quality in the same sentence as ANY American car builder . Better yet place the word Honest in any American Auto manufactures claims and advertising

    FYI Hot shot my GLK has a substantially better reliability and quality record than any premium US built comparable SUV

    Jealousy . Its such an ugly thing .

  71. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Some car companies have done more than others to optimize gearing, shift points, etc. to maximize EPA numbers, both to comply with CAFE, and to have more impressive numbers on the window stickers.

    I suspect most companies are now doing what it takes to get those high EPA highway numbers, even though slightly shorter gearing, later shifting, etc. might actually return better “real world” mpg for many drivers.

  72. pedro fernandez Says:

    Kit I’ve noticed all these 40mpg claims being tossed around in all print and broadcast ads, most of them are phony and you can only get those numbers if you drive trying to get the max mileage you can (most folks don’t)

  73. tj Martin Says:


    Or they can go the Hyundai/KIA route with the ‘ you may get ‘ caveat in their Ads .

    Jeeze that is so pathetic a statement to make

  74. tj Martin Says:

    # 72

    Yup !!!!! You got it mi amigo

    Nailed it right on the head

  75. Chuck Grenci Says:

    Projected SAAR: 14.1 million; don’t want to see projections, just report the real numbers. This is supposed to be the NEWS, not Jean Dixon’s (for those that remember her) predictions.

  76. HtG Says:

    63 The Honda filing has surely cost the company a huge amount of money in legal fees. That woman suing must know that very well, so even if they prevail on appeal, Honda spent quite a bit. So they may be worrying about other people taking the same path outside class actions in the future.

    I also like this paragraph,

    “Ms. Peters’ long delay in making her individual claims, however, has prejudiced AHM’sability to defend against her stale claims. She did not bring her vehicle in to address her currentcomplaints during its 3-year warranty period when she claims to have had poor mileage. Andshe did not give AHM (rather than Honda dealers who are separate entities independent of AHM) a chance to inspect her vehicle to determine whether there was a problem with it and whatexactly the problem might be. Her action should be dismissed on that basis”

    She didn’t bring it in to ask about the poor mileage? She wouldn’t let AHM look at the car?

    The customer from hell, if you’re Honda. They must have really gotten her angry.

    (my own experience with Honda service is that one in particular is better than the others)

  77. HtG Says:

    76 crxn, ‘one dealer in particular is better….’

  78. tj Martin Says:


    That excuse has to rate as the all time most pathetic attempt to justify one’s self I’ve ever read online or anywhere else !

    Truly !!!

    Look at the owners manual . Look at the Toyota brochures .Step inside ANY Toyota Parts/Service department A GREAT BIG CASTROL EMBLEM right on em all with the recommendations in print right underneath

    But …. then ….. you’d know that if you actually OWNED one .

    And yeah MINI & BMW uses CASTROL as well with CASTROL now sponsoring BMW’s DTM efforts

    Whats next in your feeble attempts to justify yourself and try in vain to prove me wrong Kit ?

    Scripts straight out of your favorite Disney/Star Trek episode ?

  79. pedro fernandez Says:

    I keep hearing in the news that this company and that company are planning to cut more and more jobs and yet they expect car sales to go up, really?? with so much pending unemployment and layoffs this is kind of silly, I have 2 family members, both in banking, same place for at least 20 yrs and both their jobs are in jeopardy. Future is not very certain.

  80. Charles Domanski Says:

    As far as Mopar parts is concerned, all they have been building for the past 15 years is absolute junk. I had the misfortune of buying one of their higher stall torque converters. I had it professionally installed by a friend of mine who has been in the transmission business for about fifty years. Less then a week later I had to take it back and have my friend try to figure out why it was leaking trans fluid all over the driveway. Turns out the part that sticks out and mates to the engine was welded on crocked. He said to take it back to the dealer I bought it from. Well, all they would say at the dealer was, there is no warrenty on high performance Mopar parts. So I was out a bunch of money and had to get a tc from a guy I know in another state. His tc has been in my truck for at least eight years without one problem. Mopar sucks, NO I MEAN MOPAR SUCKS ROYAL. I wouldn’t buy anything from Mopar.

  81. HtG Says:

    Story time?

    Years ago I knew a man that was suing a carco personally. He knew that he had them over a barrel since they didn’t want to go to court where a precedent could be established, and he wouldn’t accept a settlement either. He did his own court filings, made the corporate lawyers show up. He relished twisting their corporate ball sack. (he was clarinetist BTW, tj. Taught at Juiliard)

  82. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG

    I wonder how much Ms Peters shelled out and what her motivation was to continue on in light of what must of felt like overwhelming odds .

    Anyhow … paws had enough . Hope you enjoyed the concert ( I assume you watched it ) and enjoy the rest of the day in the ALD ‘Magical Kingdom ‘ with Goofy and the gang . Say hey to Mickey if’n he shows up .

  83. pedro fernandez Says:

    #80 don’t despair I am sure that with state of the art Italian engineering under the direction of Sergio Castronuovo, Mopar will be the epitome of automotive engineering once again!

  84. tj Martin Says:

    # 80

    A great big THANK YOU ! in spades !

    Finally another voice of reason when it comes to MOPAR

  85. HtG Says:

    82 Peters is an attorney. She prolly only spent her time. Hell hath no fury.

    get off that paw, tj. Banging on about cars isn’t worth it. (yes a very fine concert, though I preferred Ein Heldenleben to the VC in all honesty)

  86. tj Martin Says:


    Me . B&N . State of Wyoming ( using my music without paying ) and a member of a former presidents family ( for doing the same )

    All settled out of court for what I was asking or better

    Difference there was I had ASCAP running the shows .

    But damn !!!!! it was fun . Especially collecting those checks

  87. tj Martin Says:



    Again !!!!!

  88. Kit Gerhart Says:

    @tj, #78,
    LOOK AT AN EFFING TOYOTA OWNER’S MANUAL. It says NOTHING about Castrol oil. A MINI manual DOES say something about Castrol oil. Are you this way when dealing with people face to face, never admitting you are wrong, no matter what?

  89. pedro fernandez Says:

    Nothing changes, my sister’s Journey still has not had its discs replaced by the dealer, they keep saying they’re back-ordered, emails and calls to Chrysler have accomplished zilch. It is a disgrace that such a sensitive safety item like brakes get no special treatment or attention. If she had another car at her disposal I was gonna tell her to park it outside the dealership with a big sign saying: “this vehicle is not safe to drive”, maybe then they’ll be motivated to get it done.

  90. tj Martin Says:

    # 88

    Of course it doesn’t Kit . Of course it doesn’t


    @ HtG

    OT quicky

    B&N story – So I’m at the magazine rack in a B&N in SF and what do I hear on the background music ?

    Why ….. me oh my its one of MY compositions ( actually it became 5 before it went to the next music ) from MY CD’s

    Funny . No one asked to use my music on a background mix tape . No payments on the ASCAP statements either of late

    So i ask ( acting ignorant and claiming I wanted to buy the CD the music was from )

    The manager tells me ; ” Oh thats the background music tape corporate created for all the stores nationwide ”

    OOooops .

    Six months later I’ve got a big fat check , an even bigger purchase order , cash up front and a massive letter of apology


  91. pedro fernandez Says:

    My Corolla manual says to use Toyota oil and filters or other brand that meets certain criteria. Yet the local dealer dispenses some other major brand from large barrels. I think it’s Pennzoil. Speaking of service, have any of you ever had one of those fancy schmancy wheel balance jobs where they test the tire for defects? (It uses a roller on top of the tire)

  92. HtG Says:

    90 sheesh, I can hear your blood boiling. I thought ASCAP was supposed to monitor this stuff.

  93. W L Simpson Says:

    Re: Chine copycat, reminds me of long ago articles
    about mgfers totally disassembling competing vehicles to forage secrets & ideas.

  94. T. Bejma Says:


    The EPA Emissions Lab in Ann Arbor is on XP, and i CAN tell you how I know – my Sister works there.

  95. C-Tech Says:

    @ #91
    Yes Pedro, I use it regularly. They call the process “Road Force Balancing”. The roller simulates the tire rolling down the road and a program in the computer interpretes the vibrations as to sidewall stiffness, and tread separation. There is also a way of measuring tire and rim runout (damage). It takes longer to balance but it can help track down suspension problems, as it separates a tire problem from a chassis / suspension problem.

  96. C-Tech Says:

    John, looking at the Colorado copy, is there a reason why they would copy ugly?

  97. pedro fernandez Says:

    #95 thanks I have a vibration in one of my rear wheels and I think I may have a bent rim, reg. balance machine cannot pick it up! I don’t believe you can compensate for a bent steel wheel.

  98. T. Bejma Says:


    Let’s see the facts here…

    GM = Over 10,000 patents
    Some key patents:
    -Dual Cone Fuel Injectors
    -Inertia Seat Belts
    -Laser Welding

    MB = 435 (none since 1999)
    Some key patents:
    -Integrated child seat
    -Dual cup holders in the dash
    -Clamp for holding exhaust pipes together
    -Bench seat in a van (in 1998)

    You are right tj, there is some real innovation there…

  99. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I could photograph the section related to oil from my Prius and MINI owner’s manuals, post them on flickr, and put the link on this site, but you wouldn’t believe that either, so I won’t bother. You are such an arrogant, egotistical, and uninformed idiot regarding cars, that it’s incredible.

  100. RonE Says:

    #88 I also could find nothing in the Prius manual that refers to using Castrol brand oil.

    Recommends using “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil” or equivalent.


  101. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Thanks, Ron

  102. tj Martin Says:


    Gee then I guess like every other thinking person in the world CASTROL doesn’t like Prius’s either

    Cause it says right in the wifes Matrix ” Toyota recommends CASTROL ” Says the same right on the 2011-2012 FJ brochure , Camry brochure as well as their Truck brochures as well . And …… damn !!!! My friend in VT’s 2011 Tundra owners manuel says CASTROL as well .

    Either that or RonE is as off as Kit is ;-)

    FYI Online Vaporware and Print are seldom the same thing there RonE

    Considering thats been an almost three decade relationship and Toyota doesn’t make petroleum products

    And considering the false and exaggerated claims Kit has made about his Prius visa vi his MPG claims ( 53 mpg at 75 MPH fully loaded ) etc I still rather doubt the man owns one or has even ever driven one .



    Welcome to Indianapolis

    Where we’ve raised hotel , taxi cab and restaurant rates anywhere from 3 to 5 times . Just for you

    Where you the tourist get to fund the new arena ( with all the recently added restaurant , hotel , taxi and airport taxes that we’ve conveniently put in place … just for you )

    Oh but we’ve got a zip line ( hopefully to lose a few of you on ) a Superbowl Village ( not trying to copy the Olympics now are we ) and you’ll hardly feel the screw job we’re about to do on your wallet with all the excitement from the game and all

    ( NPR Morning Edition )

    But hey ….. Welcome

    ( looks like Indianapolis has learned a few tricks from the Big Three when it comes to bilking the American Citizens . But hey as Beer and Alcohol Addled as 99% of Superbowl attendees are … I’ll guess they’ll hardly notice )

  103. tj Martin Says:

    @ Kit

    As the paw is aching with all the rain and all I’ll sign off saying this

    1 ) the only reason you say I’m arrogant is out of pure and blatant jealousy as well as your utter inability to place your pretentious ego aside for a moment and LEARN something … rather than trying to prove your complete lack of education and understanding

    2) Even if that pretentious Prius piece of craps manuel doesn’t say CASTROL as every other Toyota manuel and brochure does that still leaves me with my 95% correct rate intact

    3) Grow up little man and wake up to the fact that there’s a whole slew of folks out here that know a hell of a lot more than you do … especially when it comes to cars .

    Now go pick on somebody your own size … preferably a Five Year old to still keep the odds in your favor ( barely ) and guess what finger i’m hiding behind my hand

  104. Kit Gerhart Says:


    tj, you are hallucinating again when you say:

    “And considering the false and exaggerated claims Kit has made about his Prius visa vi his MPG claims ( 53 mpg at 75 MPH fully loaded ) ”

    What I have said, is that I get 44 mpg on my trips between Indiana and Florida, going 75 mph most of the time on the interstate. I don’t get 53 mpg at 75, and never said I did.

  105. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I will go by the Toyota dealer today, and check a few brochures. I suspect I will find that none of them say anything about the brand of oil to use, and that you are dreaming up all of the stuff, but I want to find out.

  106. tj Martin Says:



    Just wait for it . The real Jeerrari is coming .


    104 – Of course I am Kit . Hallucinated about that $40 a month utilities bill in FL as well you made claim to .

    Yup ! Its all on my shoulders Kit . You’re the educated , fact dealing , non delusional amongst us … not me .

    Kit is Mr Wonderful !

    Tj is very BAAaaaaad ! Right 95% of the time … but very very BAAaaaaad .

    FYI Kit there’s no way in Hades you even got 44 MPG in a fully loaded Prius at 75 mph either .

    But I’m the one hallucinating . Yup . Its all moi

  107. tj Martin Says:


    Be my guest Kit . For all i know some of the 2012 brochures may not be mentioning it . But while you’re there try asking about that long term relationship between CASTROL and Toyota .

    That you somehow …. being such a Gearhead Car Guy ….. seemed to have missed out on . Even though the Mrs who is NOT a car girl knew about it well before we ever met

  108. Kit Gerhart Says:

    You are right about something. The 2012 brochures don’t mention it. I just downloaded the complete Camry brochure, went through, and there is no mention of Castrol, or any other brand of oil. Also, I searched the word “castrol” on the Toyota site, and guess what? Zero hits. Hmmm

    Also, I never said anything about a “fully loaded” Prius getting 44 mpg on my trips. I never said anything about how “loaded” the car was, and, in fact, it is fairly lightly loaded.

    …and my electric bills are for an APARTMENT in the middle of a 5 story building, surrounded by four other apartments. I might be “borrowing” A/C from my neighbors, in fact I probably am, since I keep my place warmer than many people in the summer. I am really tired of being called a liar by assholes like you, when you don’t have a clue about what you say.

  109. tj Martin Says:

    @ Kit

    Silly moi !

    Of course you’ll go to the dealer . And of course you’ll report back that there’s no CASTROL info on any of the brochures …. whether its there or not .

    Then I’m sure a slew of ‘ Sock Puppets ‘ will magically appear ( because after all Kit you DO live in the ‘ Magic Kingdom ‘ )…
    …. rushing to your defense .

    Because Kit Gerhart is NEVER wrong . Least not as I’ve ever seen here least ways . Whereas when I’ve made a mistake , placed up wrong information ( that was proven wrong ) or made an error I’ve always admitted it . Hell I’ve admitted it to you on occasion … even apologized once or twice . Which was always returned with additional insults and innuendo

    See Kit thats where credibility comes from . Not ALWAYs being right as no one is Always correct .

    But rather from the ability to admit when one is wrong . Which Kit you have NEVER done in a heated debate with anyone here on any subject since I’ve joined this little group .

    But hey Kit . Have fun on your Virtual trip to the dealership . Say hey to Mickey and Minnie for me . And do give my regards to the ‘ Sock Puppets ‘ when they make their appearance


  110. Autos101 Says:

    From “Automobile” mag:

    “..it should be no surprise that we love ourselves some BMW 335d. With plenty of power and impressive fuel economy, the outgoing diesel is a mechanical wonder child.

    And yet, thanks to the new F30-generation BMW 328i, with its 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine produces 240 horsepower and 260 pound-feet of torque, there’s some competition for the title of most fuel efficient 3 Series.

    Admittedly, the 328i’s numbers are a far cry from the 265 ponies and 425 lb-ft of torque cranked out by the diesel-fueled 3.0-liter inline six in the 335d.

    Even so, the 2012 328i is considerably lighter and more aerodynamic.

    It also boasts a next-generation transmission, which helps the car get to 60 mph one tenth of a second quicker than the old 335d.

    That’s surprising, but not nearly as surprising as the fact that the 328i manages 1 mpg better than the diesel in the combined cycle.


    According to the EPA’s just-released figures, the 328i nets 24 miles per gallon in the city and an impressive 36 mpg on the highway. The 335d, 23 mpg city and 36 highway.

    We’ll give you a moment to pick up your jaw from the floor. Now all BMW needs to do, as Automobile points out, is drop a diesel four-cylinder behind the headlights of the 3 Series to go after even bigger green credentials. Fingers crossed. “

  111. bob e K Says:

    I agree with you on comment # 33 buzzerd…well said

  112. Kit Gerhart Says:

    tj,, so you have admitted it when you are wrong? Do you still think an I-5 is smoother than an I-6? Do you still think land fill gas is 100% methane? No, you never admit when you are wrong, but you frequently ARE wrong because you don’t research things.

    By the way, I will be on my way to the Toyota dealer in a few minutes, and look at some “paper” brochures, which, I suspect, will look exactly like the one from the Toyota web site.

  113. HtG Says:

    Kit, please check out the Prius V for ADP stickers! (added dealer profit)

  114. Kit Gerhart Says:

    That is impressive mileage for the new 328. No wonder they replaced the six with the turbo four.

  115. Autos101 Says:

    pedro fernandez Says:
    February 2nd, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    “I wonder if in light of this decision, oem’s will start testing their own cars and putting those figures, or are they by law required to only show EPA numbers?”

    I am pretty sure they have to legally use the stupid EPA numbers. This is why VW, who continually gets shafted by the EPA’s very poor estimates for DIESEL MPG, hired an independent consultant and they got FAR, FAR higher EPA nos for the VW Diesels than the LUDICROUSLY LOW EPA numbers.

  116. Autos101 Says:


    Yes, these are unthinkable numbers, 36 EPA Hwy (even under the low-ball, post- 2008 rules), for a 3,300 lb or so car with a 240 HP engine! I barely got 36 actual MPG HWY with my old 125 HP, 2822 Accord coupe 5-speed 1990 (it was rated 31 HWY EPA before the 2008 downgrade!)

  117. Autos101 Says:

    2822 lbs above. And 137 torque I believe, vs 260 for the new 3 series

  118. HtG Says:

    Is there any info on the revs the 3 will run at on the highway?

  119. Autos101 Says:

    That means that the recent surge of the C class that came really close to the 3 series sales last Jan, will be in serious trouble, if Merc does not counterattack with a very fuel efficient C gas or DIESEL.

  120. Autos101 Says:

    117 I’m sure there is, go to automobilemag.com or kelley Blue book new cars

  121. Autos101 Says:

    OR WIKIPEDIA, and get more numbers than you will ever want to see


    328i 2.0 L 245 PS (180 kW; 242 hp) @5000-6500

    350 N·m (260 lb·ft) @1250-4800

    lt/100km: 5.9 (6.1)

    TOP SPEED: 250 km/h (155 mph) (250 km/h (155 mph))


    The only Q is the PRICE.

  122. Autos101 Says:

    #120 actually, the 5.9 (6.1) are 0-60 times!!!! not fuel consumption

  123. Autos101 Says:

    #121 actually 0-100 KMPH, which is actually more distance than 60 miles, so 0-60 should be QUICKER!!!

  124. Autos101 Says:

    No wonder what “M” stands for in BMW (Bayerrishe MOTOREN Werke)

  125. Autos101 Says:

    #123 typo-Bayerishe, one r.

  126. Autos101 Says:

    Look at the above ENGINEERING WOINDERS OF THE WORLD and ask yourselves

    What did Acura, Infiniti and even LEXUS do for you lately?

    No wonder they are all going down the tubes.

  127. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I just got back from the Toyota dealer. None of the brochures said anything about oil brands, and neither sales nor service people knew of any “special relationship” with Castrol, or any other oil brand either now, or in the recent past. The oil-related thing they did mention is that most Toyotas are going to 0W20 synthetic, with 10,000 mile change intervals.

  128. Kit Gerhart Says:

    HtG, #112,

    There were no ADP stickers on the two Prius V’s they had, but a salesman I talked to said that, if and when they the run out of them, like when gas prices go up, that will change.

    It seems that all Toyotas in Florida, or at least where I am, have an extra $695 that they don’t have in Indiana. It is for roadside assistance, emergency towing, and some other stuff. This is on the regular sticker, and has to do with Southern Toyota Distributors, or something like that.

    Most of the cars also have window tinting that was done at the dealer, for an extra $200.

  129. HtG Says:

    127 thanks for the intel run, Kit. Looks like anyone that buys now will be feeling fine.

  130. pedro fernandez Says:

    Kit it is a rip off of all Toyota buyers in the Southeast US that they have to pay these highway robbers a fee for “processing” your new Toyota, they “inspect” it, add a wax to it and basically rape you without even using KY jelly, If I were to ever buy a new Toyota again, I would go out of the region covered by these hoodlums, who BTW Toyota is well aware of their practices but as a Toyota manager tole me many moons ago, SE Toyota Dist. make a lot of money for Toyota and Toyota ain’t gonna do didley squat about it!

  131. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’m wondering if the new BMW 8 speed automatic is like the Mazda “skyactive,” in that it uses the torque converter only for breakaway, and has the converter locked the rest of the time. The 328i auto has one mpg better city, and 2 mpg better highway ratings than the manual.

  132. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The SE Toyota ripoff was a surprise to me when I first came to Florida. I thought sticker prices were the same everywhere. I don’t know why it is the way it is, but if I buy another new Toyota, I’ll probably get it in Indiana, like I did my present one.

  133. Sheryl Says:

    This website was… how do I say it? Relevant!
    ! Finally I’ve found something that helped me. Thanks a lot!